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LA Kings as a model?


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#1 blueadams

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Posted 18 May 2012 - 12:12 PM

Don't get me wrong here. I'm not saying that the LA Kings are the model franchise of the NHL. But they are, (IMO) clearly, the best team in hockey right now. They had a rough regular season, as a lot of new pieces needed to gel. But they are 11-1 in the playoffs, and that's incredible.

IF we wanted to mold our team after theirs - as good a team to pick as any IMO - how would we do it?





*I'm penciling players into our lineup to mirror theirs (not where they'd actually be in ours).

Top Six:

D. Brown(0.66PPG, 6-0, 204, 27)---A. Kopitar(0.93PPG, 6-3, 225, 24)---J. Williams(0.72PPG, 6-1, 191, 30)
D. Penner(0.26PPG, 6-4, 242, 29)---M. Richards(0.59PPG, 5-11, 199, 27)---J. Carter(0.62PPG, 6-4, 199, 27)

Z. PARISE(0.84PPG, 5-11, 195, 27)---P. Datsyuk(0.96PPG, 5-11, 197, 33)---V. Filppula(0.81PPG, 6-0, 193, 28)
T. Bertuzzi(0.54PPG, 6-3, 235, 37)---H. Zetterberg(0.84PPG, 5-11, 195, 31)---J. Franzen(0.73PPG, 6-2, 220, 32)

...Datsyuk's smaller, but he more or less matche Kopitar. Zetterberg more or less matches Richards. Franzen more or less matches Carter. Filppula more or less matches Williams. Bertuzzi's not as physical, but he more or less matches Penner. THE ONE element our top six is REALLY missing is a Dustin Brown-type player. ZACH PARISE's not the same kind of player (better in some regards, worse in others), but he's the closest thing there is, and signing him goes a long way to close the gap.





Bottom Six:

D. King-(0.52PPG, 6-3, 234, 22)---J. Stoll(0.27PPG, 6-1, 213, 29)---T. Lewis(0.10PPG, 6-1, 194, 25)
J. Nolan(0.15PPG, 6-3, 227, 22)---B. Richardson(0.14PPG, 5-11, 191, 27)---K. Clifford(0.15PPG, 6-2, 208, 21)

*?????*---*?????*---G. Nyquist(0.39PPG, 5-11, 170, 22)
*?????*---*D. Helm(0.38PPG, 5-11, 195, 25)---*J. Abdelkader(0.27PPG, 6-1, 215, 25)

Cleary(0.44), Miller(0.31), Eaves(0.10), Emmerton(0.14), Mursak(0.12), Sheahan(0.00); UFA: J. Hudler(0.62), T. Holmstrom(0.32); GR: Conner(0.38), F. Brunnstrom(0.20), Andersson(0.00)

...I think Helm matches Richardson. Even though he's smaller, I think Nyquist more or less matches Lewis. Even though he's not as physical, I think Abdelkader more or less matche Clifford. But King and Nolan, there is absolutely no one on this team that even close to matches up to either. If we want to match up against the Kings in that regard, we'll need to look outside the organization. And really, we don't have a third line center with offensive abilities like Stoll either.





Defense:

R. Scuderi(0.11PPG, 6-1, 219, 33)---D. Doughty(0.47PPG, 6-0, 212, 22)
W. Mitchell(0.32PPG, 6-3, 208, 35)---S. Voynov(0.37PPG, 5-11, 199, 22)
A. Martinez(0.24PPG, 6-1, 206, 24)---M. Greene(0.18PPG, 6-3, 232, 29)

B. Smith(0.50PPG, 6-2, 195, 23)---R. SUTER(0.58PPG, 6-1, 198, 27)
N. Kronwall(0.44PPG, 6-0, 190, 31)---*N. Lidstrom(0.49PPG, 6-1, 193, 42)
I. White(0.42PPG, 5-10, 191, 27)---J. Ericsson(0.16PPG, 6-5, 220, 28)

J. Kindl(0.24PPG); RFA: K. Quincey(0.36); UFA: B. Stuart(0.26PPG); GR: D. Janik(0.11PPG)

...IF we signed Suter, I think he would match their top point producer, Doughty. I think Lidstrom more than matches their number two point producer, Voynov. And I think Ericsson more or less matches their biggest defender, Greene. Our next three guys - Kronwall, White and Smith - IMO, are all more talented than their next three guys - Mitchell, Martinez and Scuderi. But also significantly smaller in all three matchups. And that's just something that we're not going to be able to change any time soon. So we'll have to go with talent.





Goaltending:

J. Quick(26)
J. Bernier(23)

J. Howard(28)
J. MacDonald(32)

...Jimmy's no Quick, but who is? He's about the closest thing we could ever hope for. Probably could use a more reliable backup as well, but I have no idea who that would be.





Summary:

...We're never going to be as young as the King's. That's just not going to happen. And we're never going to be quite as big as them, especially on defense. But if we added Parise. If we added Suter. If we added a third line scoring center. If we added a couple of power forwards. We could come very, very close to mirroring this excellent team. And, IMO, we might actually have a slight edge talent-wise.





Potential Lineup:

CAPGEEK.COM CAP CALCULATOR ROSTER
My Custom Lineup
FORWARDS
Valtteri Filppula ($3.000m) / Pavel Datsyuk ($6.700m) / Zach Parise ($7.000m)
Johan Franzen ($3.955m) / Henrik Zetterberg ($6.083m) / Todd Bertuzzi ($2.075m)
Gustav Nyquist ($0.875m) / Two-Way Center? ($3.000m) / Power Forward? ($3.000m)
Justin Abdelkader ($0.866m) / Darren Helm ($1.000m) / Power Forward? ($3.000m)
Cory Emmerton ($0.533m) / Jan Mursak ($0.550m) /
DEFENSEMEN
Nicklas Lidstrom ($6.000m) / Ryan Suter ($7.000m)
Niklas Kronwall ($4.750m) / Ian White ($2.875m)
Brendan Smith ($0.875m) / Jonathan Ericsson ($3.250m)
Doug Janik ($0.513m) /
GOALTENDERS
Jimmy Howard ($2.250m)
Joey MacDonald ($0.550m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $70,000,000; CAP PAYROLL: $69,699,962; BONUSES: $37,500
CAP SPACE (23-man roster): $300,038

Edited by blueadams, 22 May 2012 - 08:55 PM.


#2 Richdg

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Posted 18 May 2012 - 12:20 PM

Stall better than Abdelakader? You are kidding right? you do realize that Justin outscored Stall this season right? Justin-25 is just entering what should be his best years. Stall 29 has been at the peak of his career.

#3 cusimano_brothers

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Posted 18 May 2012 - 12:24 PM

Dean Lombardi: actually smarter than he has sounded?
Hell just might freeze over.

"Mess up tomorrow, don't mess up now".

- Harry James Benson, CBE.


#4 blueadams

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Posted 18 May 2012 - 12:25 PM

Stall better than Abdelakader? You are kidding right? you do realize that Justin outscored Stall this season right? Justin-25 is just entering what should be his best years. Stall 29 has been at the peak of his career.


1) I'm not talking about who's better or worse, I'm talking about how we match up. What they have that we don't. How we could get it.

2) Statistics are one thing, but I don't think that Abdelkader is very close to StOll in offensive ability. I don't think Helm is either. Jarnkrok, it sounds like he is, but it also doesn't sound like he's an option. A third-line center with offensive ability is something they have that we don't, IMO, so I decided to add one in order to match up.

3) I didn't remove Abdelkader for the team. I just moved him into Clifford's role. Something I think he could sort of do with an attitude adjustment.

*Maybe you watch more LA hockey than me. Maybe Abdelkader is as good as Stoll offensively. Fine. Now you need to find someone that matches up to Clifford on the fourth line instead of Stoll on the third.



Penner-Stoll-Nyquist
???-Helm-Abdelkader

or

Penner-Abdelkader-Nyquist
???-Helm-???

matches up to

Penner-Stoll-Lewis
Nolan-Richardson-Clifford

Edited by blueadams, 18 May 2012 - 12:31 PM.


#5 Richdg

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Posted 18 May 2012 - 12:34 PM

Nashville DOMINATED us...Phoenix DOMINATED them...and LA is DOMINATING them...so it might be worth taking a look at their roster makeup to see if there's anything to take away from it.

*I'm not saying that the Kings are THE model franchise of the NHL. I'm just noticing that they are probably the best team in the NHL right now (in this playoff month), and I want to take a closer look.





* = someone else's draft pick.

Top Six:

D. Brown(3.2mil, 27, 6-0, 204, 1st Rd)-A. Kopitar(6.8mil, 24, 6-3, 225, 1st Rd)-J. Williams(3.7mil, 30, 6-1, 191, *1st Rd)
D. King-(0.6mil, 22, 6-3, 234, 4th Rd)-M. Richards(5.8mil, 27, 5-11, 199, *1st Rd)-J. Carter(5.3mil, 27, 6-4, 199, *1st Rd)

...How did our top six match up to this? He's a much smaller player, but in terms of skill, Datsyuk certainly matches Kopitar as the first line center. Zetterberg certainly matches Richards as the second line center. I guess Franzen sort of matches up against Carter, in terms of size and skill (though Carter is probably a little better all-around). I guess Filppula sort of matches up against Williams, in terms of size and skill (though Williams is a little grittier, and has a better shot). I guess Bertuzzi sort of matches up against King, in terms of size and skill (though King is much younger, and plays more physically). THE ONE MAJOR DIFFERENCE between our top six and their top six - - - Dustin Brown. There's no one we have that's even close to matching him in our top six. Certainly not Jiri Hudler. IF we can sign ZACH PARISE then our top six might more or less match theirs.





Bottom Six:

D. Penner(4.3mil, 29, 6-4, 242, *UDFA)-J. Stoll(3.6mil, 29, 6-1, 213, *2nd Rd)-T. Lewis(0.7mil, 25, 6-1, 194, 1st Rd)
J. Nolan(0.5mil, 22, 6-3, 227, 7th Rd)-B. Richardson(1.2mil, 27, 5-11, 191, *5th Rd)-K. Clifford(0.9mil, 21, 6-2, 208, 2nd Rd)

...IF we wanted to match up against their top six, I think it's more or less a one player fix (Zach Parise). But if we wanted to match up against their bottom six, I think it'd take a little more work. I'll start with the elements of theirs that we do have. Helm certainly matches up against Richardson as an excellent, undersized defensive center. Nyquist certainly matches up against Lewis as a talented young two way player (though Nyquist is a little smaller...Hudler could as well I guess if we wanted to keep him). Abdelkader sort of matches up against Clifford in terms of size and ability (though Clifford plays a much tougher game). That's what we at least sort of have that they don't. What don't we have? JARRET STOLL. We don't have a third line center on this team with much offensive skill (Abdelkader isn't even close to Stoll in that regard, much less Helm). It sounds like it's not even an option, but if we wanted to call-up Calle Jarnrkok, he would give us a player like Stoll (albeit a much, much smaller player). A free agent signing like Jarret Stoll himself, or OLLI JOKINEN, would fit the bill for sure. DUSTIN PENNER. There's no one on this team that even close to compares to Penner. Not even close. No prospects either. If we wanted to match the Kings on this one, we'd have to look outside the organization. Fortunately, Dustin Penner himself is a free agent to be. JORDAN NOLAN. Again, there's no one on this team that even close to compares to Nolan. Cleary and Sheahan are the closest, and aren't that close at all. Both are much smaller, and much less physical. If we wanted to match the Kings here, again, we'd probably need to look outside the organization. IF we wanted to match up against the Kings, it doesn't appear that there'd really be a place for guys like Eaves, Miller, Emmerton, Mursak, Holmstrom...or even Cleary and Sheahan.





Defense:

R. Scuderi(3.4mil, 33, 6-1, 219, *5th Rd)-D. Doughty(7.0mil, 22, 6-0, 212, 1st Rd)
W. Mitchell(3.5mil, 35, 6-3, 208, *8th Rd)-S. Voynov(0.8mil, 22, 5-11, 199, 2nd Rd)
A. Martinez(0.7mil, 24, 6-1, 206, 4th Rd)-M. Greene(3.0mil, 29, 6-3, 232, *2nd Rd)

...This is the strangest group to compare. The Kings basically have three defenders with offensive skill, and three big guys that are just stay-at-home defenders. We have five guys with offensive skill (Lidstrom, Kronwall, White, Quincey, Smith...Stuart's gone), and one stay-at-home guy (Ericsson). I wouldn't necessarily say that our group is better or worse. But it is different. It is much smaller. Lidstrom and Doughty are much different players (Doughty's much younger, bigger, more physical, better offensively, not as sound defensively), but do they match up as #1 defensemen? Sure. Kronwall certainly matches up against their second best offensive defenseman, Voynov. White certainly matches up against their third best offensive defenseman, Martinez (Martinez is bigger, but doesn't play much bigger). Ericsson matches up against one of their big three stay-at-home defensemen - Scuderi, Mitchell or Greene. The real difference between the two groups is Quincey and Smith vs. the other two big, physical stay-at-home defensemen. Are we better or worse there? I don't really know. But maybe we could stand to add some size to the blue-line if we wanted to match up better against them.





Goaltending:

J. Quick(1.8mil, 26, 3rd Rd)
J. Bernier(1.3mil, 23, 1st Rd)

...Jimmy Howard's no Jonathan Quick, but who is? Jimmy's about as close as we could hope to get. Bernier's more usable in the regular season than any of our backups. So, maybe we could get a more reliable backup?





IF we wanted to match up against the Kings this off-season, here's what we could do:

CAPGEEK.COM CAP CALCULATOR ROSTER
My Custom Lineup
FORWARDS
Valtteri Filppula ($3.000m) / Pavel Datsyuk ($6.700m) / Zach Parise ($7.000m)
Johan Franzen ($3.955m) / Henrik Zetterberg ($6.083m) / Todd Bertuzzi ($2.075m)
Gustav Nyquist ($0.875m) / Jarret Stoll ($3.000m) / Dustin Penner ($3.000m)
Justin Abdelkader ($1.300m) / Darren Helm ($1.400m) / Power Forward? ($1.000m)
Patrick Eaves ($1.200m) / Drew Miller ($0.838m) /
DEFENSEMEN
Nicklas Lidstrom ($6.000m) / Ryan Suter ($7.000m)
Niklas Kronwall ($4.750m) / Ian White ($2.875m)
Brendan Smith ($0.875m) / Jonathan Ericsson ($3.250m)
Jakub Kindl ($0.883m) /
GOALTENDERS
Jimmy Howard ($2.250m)
Joey MacDonald ($0.550m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $70,000,000; CAP PAYROLL: $69,858,712; BONUSES: $37,500
CAP SPACE (23-man roster): $141,288

Let's see...

-#1) I signed Parise(7.0mil). That gives us our Dustin Brown in the top six.
-#2) I signed Suter(7.0mil). That gives us some more size, physicality and sound defensive play on the blue-line.
-#3) I signed Stoll(3.0mil). That gives us our two-way third line center.
-#4) I signed Penner(3.0mil). That gives us our two-way third line power-forward.
-#5) I signed a random Power Forward(1.0mil). That gives us our Jordan Nolan-type on the fourth line.

-#6) I traded Cleary. Needed to replace him with a bigger, more physical player...and also to clear the cap-space.
-#7) I let Quincey, Hudler, Holmstrom and Conklin leave as free agents (and Stuart). No need for Quincey with Lidstrom and Suter signed. Huds and Homer don't fit in to the blueprint. I have no idea who Joey Mac's replacement would be, so I didn't even bother there.
-#8) I reassigned Emmerton, Mursak and Sheahan to GR (hopefully they make it there).



Ok this is way to long of a post. But there are some very interesting things showing up here, that i have talked about for years. the Kings are bigger, faster, and younger than us in the foward lines. they have 2 forwards under 6ft tall. the have 2 forwards under 200 pounds. Go look at our roster. Then go look at our minor leaguers. far to many guys in the 5-10/180 pound range. The same was true when we played the preds. Of the very few forwards that we have over 6ft/200 punds, only 1 is under 30. the rest are all old broken down, or have no heart. You are also trying to compare forwards that have different styles of play. parise and Brown are not even close. one is a small fast sniper, the other plays a big mans physical game. #6 just isn't possible. Nobody is going to take a guy that just had knee surgery. Yes the Wings need some changes, but they are not going to come at once. 8-10 new players are needed, but it will take 2 off seasons to happen.

#6 blueadams

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Posted 18 May 2012 - 12:40 PM

Ok this is way to long of a post. But there are some very interesting things showing up here, that i have talked about for years. the Kings are bigger, faster, and younger than us in the foward lines. they have 2 forwards under 6ft tall. the have 2 forwards under 200 pounds. Go look at our roster. Then go look at our minor leaguers. far to many guys in the 5-10/180 pound range. The same was true when we played the preds. Of the very few forwards that we have over 6ft/200 punds, only 1 is under 30. the rest are all old broken down, or have no heart. You are also trying to compare forwards that have different styles of play. parise and Brown are not even close. one is a small fast sniper, the other plays a big mans physical game. #6 just isn't possible. Nobody is going to take a guy that just had knee surgery. Yes the Wings need some changes, but they are not going to come at once. 8-10 new players are needed, but it will take 2 off seasons to happen.


I don't think we're quite THAT far away.

1) Brown vs. Parise. No, Parise is not as physical as Brown. But he is a more talented scorer. And he does bring the same kind of heart, energy and leadership. Brown is the biggest difference between our front six and their front six...and Parise is far and away the closest thing we could add.

2) I don't think it'd be impossible to trade Cleary, like many seem to think it would be. But hey, I'll hypothetically agree with you here. He can sort of match up to Clifford on the 4th line.

3) I'm not going to go through the whole thing again...we won't be as big, or as fast, or as strong as them anytime soon...but we can get much closer, much faster than you seem to think.



something like this...

CAPGEEK.COM CAP CALCULATOR ROSTER
My Custom Lineup
FORWARDS
Valtteri Filppula ($3.000m) / Pavel Datsyuk ($6.700m) / Zach Parise ($7.000m)
Johan Franzen ($3.955m) / Henrik Zetterberg ($6.083m) / Todd Bertuzzi ($2.075m)
Gustav Nyquist ($0.875m) / Justin Abdelkader ($1.300m) / Dustin Penner ($3.000m)
Danny Cleary ($2.800m) / Darren Helm ($1.400m) / Power Forward? ($1.000m)
Patrick Eaves ($1.200m) / Drew Miller ($0.838m) /
DEFENSEMEN
Nicklas Lidstrom ($6.000m) / Ryan Suter ($7.000m)
Niklas Kronwall ($4.750m) / Ian White ($2.875m)
Brendan Smith ($0.875m) / Jonathan Ericsson ($3.250m)
Jakub Kindl ($0.883m) /
GOALTENDERS
Jimmy Howard ($2.250m)
Joey MacDonald ($0.550m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $70,000,000; CAP PAYROLL: $69,658,712; BONUSES: $37,500
CAP SPACE (23-man roster): $341,288

Edited by blueadams, 18 May 2012 - 12:46 PM.


#7 Richdg

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Posted 18 May 2012 - 12:41 PM

1) I'm not talking about who's better or worse, I'm talking about how we match up. What they have that we don't. How we could get it.

2) Statistics are one thing, but I don't think that Abdelkader is very close to StOll in offensive ability. I don't think Helm is either. Jarnkrok, it sounds like he is, but it also doesn't sound like he's an option. A third-line center with offensive ability is something they have that we don't, IMO, so I decided to add one in order to match up.

3) I didn't remove Abdelkader for the team. I just moved him into Clifford's role. Something I think he could sort of do with an attitude adjustment.

*Maybe you watch more LA hockey than me. Maybe Abdelkader is as good as Stoll offensively. Fine. Now you need to find someone that matches up to Clifford on the fourth line instead of Stoll on the third.



Penner-Stoll-Nyquist
???-Helm-Abdelkader

or

Penner-Abdelkader-Nyquist
???-Helm-???

matches up to

Penner-Stoll-Lewis
Nolan-Richardson-Clifford


Abby is better than Stoll, no if's an's or but's about it. Younger and cheaper as well. I wouldn't want penner playing for the griffins, he is a fat lazy player and always has been. which is why he is about to play for his 4th team in his career. Our problems lie in the top 2 lines and the old forwards signed to play there. Burt, Franzen, and Cleary all need to go. Z and dat are dropping fast. Nyquist is an unkown at this point, but is very small for this era of hockey. In many ways, I hope they drop the cap for a year while trying to come up with a long term solution. Gives us the chance to clear out some dead weight.

#8 blueadams

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Posted 18 May 2012 - 12:49 PM

Abby is better than Stoll, no if's an's or but's about it. Younger and cheaper as well. I wouldn't want penner playing for the griffins, he is a fat lazy player and always has been. which is why he is about to play for his 4th team in his career. Our problems lie in the top 2 lines and the old forwards signed to play there. Burt, Franzen, and Cleary all need to go. Z and dat are dropping fast. Nyquist is an unkown at this point, but is very small for this era of hockey. In many ways, I hope they drop the cap for a year while trying to come up with a long term solution. Gives us the chance to clear out some dead weight.


alright, now you're just kind of being overly negative. If Stoll and Penner are such awful 3rd line players, then why are the kings 11-1 in the playoffs?

pav was voted as the #2 overall player in the league behind crosby in numerous polls this season. z 'dropping fast' is an overstatement. franzen isn't as bad as you make him out to be.

#9 Richdg

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Posted 18 May 2012 - 12:56 PM

alright, now you're just kind of being overly negative. If Stoll and Penner are such awful 3rd line players, then why are the kings 11-1 in the playoffs?

pav was voted as the #2 overall player in the league behind crosby in numerous polls this season. z 'dropping fast' is an overstatement. franzen isn't as bad as you make him out to be.



I didn't say stoll was abd 3rd liner. I said Abby is better. Penner is a head case and always has been. That is why the Ducks, Oilers, and soon the Kings have let him go. Polls are like AS teams. Players are voted on by reputations more than production. Go look at both dat and Z since 2008. The game splayed has dropped, the goals scored has dropped, the points have dropped, and the shots have dropped. That is true for both players and for every year. if your line mates fall off that has something to do with overall points, I understand that. But that has nothing to do with games played or shots. dat had 160 shots this year. In 08 and 09 he was in the mid 250's. That is a 40% drop. Z has the same trend going on. Good thing he is signed for 9 more years......

#10 Doc Holliday

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Posted 18 May 2012 - 01:02 PM

Does anyone understand the term "Cinderella team" anymore?

The Kings were one of the worst teams in the league halfway through the season. They were able to sneak in as an 8th seed and were able to feed off a weak-willed Vancouver team and have been flying high since.

I fully expect the Rangers to win the East and take the Kings, as much as I'm rooting for them.

Posted Image


#11 b.shanafan14

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Posted 18 May 2012 - 01:18 PM

Does anyone understand the term "Cinderella team" anymore?

The Kings were one of the worst teams in the league halfway through the season. They were able to sneak in as an 8th seed and were able to feed off a weak-willed Vancouver team and have been flying high since.

I fully expect the Rangers to win the East and take the Kings, as much as I'm rooting for them.

This. Not sure how the Rangers and Kings will match up, but it should be interesting.

Playoffs (especially in today's parity conditions) are never as clear as the OP suggested. The team at the top does not automatically make them better than both the teams they defeated AND the teams their opponents defeated prior. Match-ups are everything. Think rock-paper-scissors: Nashville beat the Wings, and Pheonix beat the Preds, but I truly believe given the history and the way they matched up, the Wings would have beaten the Coyotes.

And as far as the Kings dismantling the 'Yotes: the Kings had a great roster all season, and it continued to get better, they were just under-achieving big time. Pheonix on the other hand probably has no business being in the Conference Final. Full marks for beating Chicago and Nashville, but you don't have to go far to see a similar team: 2008 Dallas Stars. Went through Anaheim and San Jose I believe before being completely outclassed by the Wings.

Its cool to see the Kings doing what they are doing, but its just as likely they lose in the Cup finals and go the way of Philly for the next few years (not to mention ex-Flyers make up half the Top 6 :P).

#12 arag

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Posted 18 May 2012 - 01:23 PM

The Kings are playing excellent hockey right now. The team I think is built above average. The main difference is that their passion, intensity and work ethics are unmatched in this playoffs. Well maybe New Jersey in the east.
Kings captain is working his ass off and doing everything to help his team win(hitting, taking hits, scoring goals, even diving to get power players out of it).
That is the winning formula.

#13 blueadams

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Posted 18 May 2012 - 01:30 PM

I didn't say stoll was abd 3rd liner. I said Abby is better. Penner is a head case and always has been. That is why the Ducks, Oilers, and soon the Kings have let him go. Polls are like AS teams. Players are voted on by reputations more than production. Go look at both dat and Z since 2008. The game splayed has dropped, the goals scored has dropped, the points have dropped, and the shots have dropped. That is true for both players and for every year. if your line mates fall off that has something to do with overall points, I understand that. But that has nothing to do with games played or shots. dat had 160 shots this year. In 08 and 09 he was in the mid 250's. That is a 40% drop. Z has the same trend going on. Good thing he is signed for 9 more years......


pretty vulnerable points. if they're playing less games, then yes, it would be assumed that their goals and shots would drop. give me their per/game stats if you want to make a point.

and i would disagree on principal that line mates don't effect shots.

Does anyone understand the term "Cinderella team" anymore?

The Kings were one of the worst teams in the league halfway through the season. They were able to sneak in as an 8th seed and were able to feed off a weak-willed Vancouver team and have been flying high since.

I fully expect the Rangers to win the East and take the Kings, as much as I'm rooting for them.


well, 1) playoff hockey is a lot different than regular season hockey - very obviously.

2) the kings made a bunch of moves in the off-season, so it makes sense that it took time to gel.

3) the kings acquired carter mid-season (and lost jjohnson)...so even more time.

4) vancouver sucking is not why the kings have gone 7-0 since.

This. Not sure how the Rangers and Kings will match up, but it should be interesting.

Playoffs (especially in today's parity conditions) are never as clear as the OP suggested. The team at the top does not automatically make them better than both the teams they defeated AND the teams their opponents defeated prior. Match-ups are everything. Think rock-paper-scissors: Nashville beat the Wings, and Pheonix beat the Preds, but I truly believe given the history and the way they matched up, the Wings would have beaten the Coyotes.

And as far as the Kings dismantling the 'Yotes: the Kings had a great roster all season, and it continued to get better, they were just under-achieving big time. Pheonix on the other hand probably has no business being in the Conference Final. Full marks for beating Chicago and Nashville, but you don't have to go far to see a similar team: 2008 Dallas Stars. Went through Anaheim and San Jose I believe before being completely outclassed by the Wings.

Its cool to see the Kings doing what they are doing, but its just as likely they lose in the Cup finals and go the way of Philly for the next few years (not to mention ex-Flyers make up half the Top 6 :P).


the kings are 11-1 in the playoffs man. every series not involving the kinds has been very close. every series involving the kings hasn't. might be more than coincidence to this. might be something to learn from this.

The Kings are playing excellent hockey right now. The team I think is built above average. The main difference is that their passion, intensity and work ethics are unmatched in this playoffs. Well maybe New Jersey in the east.
Kings captain is working his ass off and doing everything to help his team win(hitting, taking hits, scoring goals, even diving to get power players out of it).
That is the winning formula.


couldn't agree more. hunger and heart is just as important a missing piece as any kind of talent or size.

#14 haroldsnepsts

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Posted 18 May 2012 - 01:39 PM

Nashville DOMINATED us...Phoenix DOMINATED them...and LA is DOMINATING them...so it might be worth taking a look at their roster makeup to see if there's anything to take away from it.

*I'm not saying that the Kings are THE model franchise of the NHL. I'm just noticing that they are probably the best team in the NHL right now (in this playoff month), and I want to take a closer look.

* = someone else's draft pick.

Top Six:

D. Brown(3.2mil, 27, 6-0, 204, 1st Rd)-A. Kopitar(6.8mil, 24, 6-3, 225, 1st Rd)-J. Williams(3.7mil, 30, 6-1, 191, *1st Rd)
D. King-(0.6mil, 22, 6-3, 234, 4th Rd)-M. Richards(5.8mil, 27, 5-11, 199, *1st Rd)-J. Carter(5.3mil, 27, 6-4, 199, *1st Rd)

As someone who's watched a lot of Kings hockey this year, my two cents.

(This is mostly based on how the Kings have been towards the end of the season and in the playoffs)

Kopitar plays a very similar game to Zetterberg. Just imagine if Zetterberg were 24 years old, 6'3" and 225 lbs. Kopitar is huge for someone as talented as he is and he's playing like Z did in his prime. Franzen is more of a goal scorer than Carter seems to be, but Carter is a better two way player (since Franzen has slacked on that part of his game) and more physical. And Penner is often back up on the second line for the Kings because he's played so well this playoffs. He's like a Bertuzzi, but is actually working hard and using his size more than Bert does.

The most important distinction is that the top 6 have shown up a lot more than the Wings top six did. Brown especially has been clutch. Signing Parise would certainly help the top six but Brown is a great combination of speed, scoring, hitting, and penalty killing.

Bottom Six:

D. Penner(4.3mil, 29, 6-4, 242, *UDFA)-J. Stoll(3.6mil, 29, 6-1, 213, *2nd Rd)-T. Lewis(0.7mil, 25, 6-1, 194, 1st Rd)
J. Nolan(0.5mil, 22, 6-3, 227, 7th Rd)-B. Richardson(1.2mil, 27, 5-11, 191, *5th Rd)-K. Clifford(0.9mil, 21, 6-2, 208, 2nd Rd)

The Kings bottom six blows away the Wings bottom six. On the Wings they always struggled with an identity and all too often got pinned in their own end for their entire shift. Also, in the playoffs King has often played on the third line with Penner on the second, like last night. So it was King-Stoll-Lewis last night for the third line and they were dominant all night. Then the fourth line of Clifford-Richardson-Nolan can still crash and bang, keep the puck deep and score the occasional goal.

And whether he's on the second or third line, Penner has become a completely different player on the Kings under Sutter. He's finally working hard, using his size and living up to his potential.

Defense:

R. Scuderi(3.4mil, 33, 6-1, 219, *5th Rd)-D. Doughty(7.0mil, 22, 6-0, 212, 1st Rd)
W. Mitchell(3.5mil, 35, 6-3, 208, *8th Rd)-S. Voynov(0.8mil, 22, 5-11, 199, 2nd Rd)
A. Martinez(0.7mil, 24, 6-1, 206, 4th Rd)-M. Greene(3.0mil, 29, 6-3, 232, *2nd Rd)

It is a hard comparison because Doughty is an extremely talented player, playing somewhat more like Kronwall but more physical overall. Voynov is more like a young rafalski.

But the biggest distinction is that the three stay at home guys. I'd say we're worse there. Mitchell has been awesome this season. Just rock solid night in and out. Greene is like an Ericsson only more physical though not as good of a first pass. And Scuderi has really been solid as well. As a group they're better than Stuart, Ericsson and Quincey for sure. Much more consistent night in and out. Some of that though is do to the help they get from the forwards coming back.

And just look at how big their defensive corps is overall. They don't get pushed around by anyone.


Goaltending:

J. Quick(1.8mil, 26, 3rd Rd)
J. Bernier(1.3mil, 23, 1st Rd)

...Jimmy Howard's no Jonathan Quick, but who is? Jimmy's about as close as we could hope to get. Bernier's more usable in the regular season than any of our backups. So, maybe we could get a more reliable backup?

Jimmy has not played like Quick, but overall I think he's good enough for the Wings to go deep in the playoffs. The team in front of him just hung him out to dry too often.

Aside from specific players, the Kings just have a lot more size and speed than the Wings. They're not physically intimidated by anyone.

And once Sutter stepped in, they're so calm under an intense forecheck. You can tell they've worked so hard on exiting their zone under pressure. They probably don't have as much offensive skill as the Wings that they can use to get out of their own zone, but they've got a puck support system so ingrained in them that it doesn't matter.

#15 haroldsnepsts

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Posted 18 May 2012 - 01:50 PM

I didn't say stoll was abd 3rd liner. I said Abby is better. Penner is a head case and always has been. That is why the Ducks, Oilers, and soon the Kings have let him go. Polls are like AS teams. Players are voted on by reputations more than production. Go look at both dat and Z since 2008. The game splayed has dropped, the goals scored has dropped, the points have dropped, and the shots have dropped. That is true for both players and for every year. if your line mates fall off that has something to do with overall points, I understand that. But that has nothing to do with games played or shots. dat had 160 shots this year. In 08 and 09 he was in the mid 250's. That is a 40% drop. Z has the same trend going on. Good thing he is signed for 9 more years......

Penner has become a completely different player under Sutter. He's working hard every night, using his size. He has 2 goals and 8 points in 12 games.

I don't know what the Kings will do with him this offseason, but he's playing great right now.

Does anyone understand the term "Cinderella team" anymore?

The Kings were one of the worst teams in the league halfway through the season. They were able to sneak in as an 8th seed and were able to feed off a weak-willed Vancouver team and have been flying high since.

I fully expect the Rangers to win the East and take the Kings, as much as I'm rooting for them.

In terms of standings, they were never one of the worst teams in the league. They were just one of the worst teams in the league at scoring goals and had to be held in games by Quick. They were 29th in the league in Goals For and still made the playoffs. That's a pretty good defensive team for that to happen.

As I said in the other thread, once they brought in Sutter, traded for Carter, and called up King and Nolan, the Kings offensive woes got a lot better while remaining just as solid defensively. They're the 8th seed, but in the last part of the season they were playing much better than an 8th seed and finally realizing the potential they had all season.

#16 LeftWinger

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Posted 18 May 2012 - 02:29 PM

Kings are not a model, nor a dynasty...Wings soft and need about 3-4 players to replace what we have...who those are? Dunno... But landing Suter/Parise would be a great start!

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#17 Doc Holliday

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Posted 18 May 2012 - 02:31 PM

In terms of standings, they were never one of the worst teams in the league. They were just one of the worst teams in the league at scoring goals and had to be held in games by Quick. They were 29th in the league in Goals For and still made the playoffs. That's a pretty good defensive team for that to happen.

As I said in the other thread, once they brought in Sutter, traded for Carter, and called up King and Nolan, the Kings offensive woes got a lot better while remaining just as solid defensively. They're the 8th seed, but in the last part of the season they were playing much better than an 8th seed and finally realizing the potential they had all season.


In all honesty, they are getting hot at the right time, and despite doing so well since the coaching change and having Quick on fire, if they end up playing the Rangers in the finals, they will be playing against a more playoff and adversity prepared team than any they have faced so far.

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#18 blueadams

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Posted 18 May 2012 - 03:38 PM

well,

I think the morale of the comparision is this...

Adding Parise, Suter and a couple of bottom six power forwards would go a long way for us.




...Parise gives you the closest thing that you can get to Brown. Suter gives us more size and physicality on the blue line (still don't match up to them size-wise, but are much more talented there). Two new power forwards match up to King and Nolan. Datsyuk-Kopitar. Zetterberg-Richards. Filppula-Williams. Franzen-Carter. Bertuzzi-Penner. Abdelkader-Stoll. Helm-Richardson. Nyquist-Lewis. Cleary-Clifford. Howard-Quick.

Not perfect, but steps in the right direction for sure.

Edited by blueadams, 18 May 2012 - 03:54 PM.


#19 GMRwings1983

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Posted 18 May 2012 - 04:10 PM

Stall better than Abdelakader? You are kidding right? you do realize that Justin outscored Stall this season right? Justin-25 is just entering what should be his best years. Stall 29 has been at the peak of his career.


I can hardly wait.

:rolleyes:

Does anyone understand the term "Cinderella team" anymore?

The Kings were one of the worst teams in the league halfway through the season. They were able to sneak in as an 8th seed and were able to feed off a weak-willed Vancouver team and have been flying high since.

I fully expect the Rangers to win the East and take the Kings, as much as I'm rooting for them.


Except "Cinderella teams" aren't supposed to sweep every series.
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#20 Doc Holliday

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Posted 18 May 2012 - 05:41 PM

Except "Cinderella teams" aren't supposed to sweep every series.


Where does it say that?

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