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LA Kings as a model?


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#21 Frozen-Man

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Posted 18 May 2012 - 06:12 PM

I would say that the Kings having 5 top 15 and 3 top 5 draft picks in the last 5 years (and this with no 2011 1st round pick because they included it in the Penner trade) makes it kind of hard to compare their model to the Wings model who haven't had a pick higher than 19 since 1991. The Wings can't model themselves after the Wings without losing a lot more in the future. Additionally, the Kings have some good players but are kind of having a Cinderella playoffs I don't think they are going to be perennial contenders for the WCF.

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#22 GMRwings1983

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Posted 18 May 2012 - 06:20 PM

Where does it say that?


In my post.
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#23 Doc Holliday

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Posted 18 May 2012 - 06:29 PM

In my post.


I always wondered who came up with that term.

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#24 Buppy

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Posted 18 May 2012 - 11:37 PM

Adding Parise and Suter wouldn't make us anything at all like the Kings. In fact, both are far more like the Wings than the Kings. The Kings are a big, aggressive forechecking team whose defensive system stifles their offense. The Wings rely on a potent possession offense, both for scoring and minimizing opportunities against. They are about as opposite as you can get while still playing the same sport.

Secondly, why should the Wings want to jump on the Kings bandwagon? That's something fans do, not exceptional hockey franchises. When the Kings or Rangers go a decade as a legit contender every year, then maybe we could consider them models. But not after one good year.

The Kings haven't found some secret formula for victory. There is no such thing. They're just playing very well.

This reminds of Fes from "That 70's Show" trying to grasp the Rock-Paper-Scissors concept. You need to understand that isn't one thing that beats everything. The way the Kings play isn't new. The way they are built isn't innovative. Everything they are doing has been tried before; has failed before. Nothing always works. Not one single "formula" in all of sporting history, any sport, always works. Closest to that in recent hockey history is the Wings. I have seen nothing in recent years to suggest that the puck-possession system, when executed well, is not as good or better than any other style.

Maybe our players are no longer good enough to execute our system, but until I see something to suggest the system is untenable, I'll stay on the Wings' bus and trust Kenny to tweak the roster.

#25 jollymania

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Posted 19 May 2012 - 12:20 AM

so you are saying we should add a major diver to our team? Semen awaits...
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#26 Drake_Marcus

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Posted 19 May 2012 - 02:21 AM

Stall better than Abdelakader? You are kidding right? you do realize that Justin outscored Stall this season right? Justin-25 is just entering what should be his best years. Stall 29 has been at the peak of his career.


All of the Staal brothers currently in the NHL are superior to Abdelkader in every possible way.
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#27 Doc Holliday

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Posted 19 May 2012 - 07:37 AM

All of the Staal brothers currently in the NHL are superior to Abdelkader in every possible way.


He was talking about Jarret Stoll. None of the Staal brothers play for the Kings.

Edited by Doc Holliday, 19 May 2012 - 07:38 AM.

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#28 dobbles

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Posted 19 May 2012 - 09:06 AM

come back in a year or two and see how the kings are doing before worrying about if the wings need to be more like them...

they have been on a great playoff run. however, it really helps when a defensive team like them gets to play totally s*** offensive teams in the playoffs. all they have to do is grind out a goal or two and lock it down and let quick look amazing. (and yes i know they played the canucks who were a top offensive team, but they were also missing their best goal scorer most of the series)

not to mention, when you have a goalie playing lights out it masks a LOT of mistakes in other areas. so now all of a sudden their role players look amazing. but do you guys really think that long term guys like lewis, stoll, king, etc are guys that will continue to contribute like this?

fact of the matter is that the kings are a team that won less than half of their games this year. they were next to last in goals. they are on a hot streak thanks to an amazing goalie. they are the 2004 calgary flames all over again with a few more sexy names on the roster.

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#29 LeftWinger

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Posted 19 May 2012 - 09:58 AM

I would sum it by saying, the Kings are a model much like the Canes, Ducks and Lightning were models...

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#30 blueadams

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Posted 19 May 2012 - 10:14 AM

I would say that the Kings having 5 top 15 and 3 top 5 draft picks in the last 5 years (and this with no 2011 1st round pick because they included it in the Penner trade) makes it kind of hard to compare their model to the Wings model who haven't had a pick higher than 19 since 1991. The Wings can't model themselves after the Wings without losing a lot more in the future. Additionally, the Kings have some good players but are kind of having a Cinderella playoffs I don't think they are going to be perennial contenders for the WCF.


1) Regardless of draft slots, add Parise, add Suter, and add a couple of big cheap power forwards to the bottom six and we're very, very similar.

2) If they can keep that squad together, they're going to be the team to beat in the West for a while. Kopitar, Doughty, Quick, Brown, Richards, Carter, etc...those guys aren't going to forget how to play hockey anytime soon.

#31 blueadams

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Posted 19 May 2012 - 10:22 AM

Adding Parise and Suter wouldn't make us anything at all like the Kings. In fact, both are far more like the Wings than the Kings. The Kings are a big, aggressive forechecking team whose defensive system stifles their offense. The Wings rely on a potent possession offense, both for scoring and minimizing opportunities against. They are about as opposite as you can get while still playing the same sport.

Secondly, why should the Wings want to jump on the Kings bandwagon? That's something fans do, not exceptional hockey franchises. When the Kings or Rangers go a decade as a legit contender every year, then maybe we could consider them models. But not after one good year.

The Kings haven't found some secret formula for victory. There is no such thing. They're just playing very well.

This reminds of Fes from "That 70's Show" trying to grasp the Rock-Paper-Scissors concept. You need to understand that isn't one thing that beats everything. The way the Kings play isn't new. The way they are built isn't innovative. Everything they are doing has been tried before; has failed before. Nothing always works. Not one single "formula" in all of sporting history, any sport, always works. Closest to that in recent hockey history is the Wings. I have seen nothing in recent years to suggest that the puck-possession system, when executed well, is not as good or better than any other style.

Maybe our players are no longer good enough to execute our system, but until I see something to suggest the system is untenable, I'll stay on the Wings' bus and trust Kenny to tweak the roster.


Dude,

You're getting carried away. And so are a lot of the rest of you.

1) I'm not saying that they are THE nhl's model franchise, or that we SHOULD re-build our team in their image...I'm simply saying, "Hey, look, that's the best team in hockey right now, they are playing this game very differently than us, is there anything we can learn from watching them?"

2) How does adding Parise, adding Suter, and replacing Eaves and Miller (essentially) with two bigger power forwards signify the abandonment of our style of hockey?? That's all I'm suggesting that we do here. I think it'd make us a better team. And I don't think that Holland or Babcock would disagree in the least.

Edited by blueadams, 19 May 2012 - 10:26 AM.


#32 GMRwings1983

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Posted 19 May 2012 - 10:59 AM

I doubt Abby could pull this.

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#33 Buppy

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Posted 19 May 2012 - 11:05 AM

Dude,

You're getting carried away. And so are a lot of the rest of you.

1) I'm not saying that they are THE nhl's model franchise, or that we SHOULD re-build our team in their image...I'm simply saying, "Hey, look, that's the best team in hockey right now, they are playing this game very differently than us, is there anything we can learn from watching them?"

2) How does adding Parise, adding Suter, and replacing Eaves and Miller (essentially) with two bigger power forwards signify the abandonment of our style of hockey?? That's all I'm suggesting that we do here. I think it'd make us a better team. And I don't think that Holland or Babcock would disagree in the least.

That's the thing...you make a thread titled "LA Kings as a model", then suggest the exact same changes that everyone else (including yourself in other threads) already suggested, despite the fact that those changes don't do anything at all to make the Wings more like the Kings. Why even mention the Kings?

Should the Wings ty to improve for next year? Of course. But the Kings have nothing to do with that.

#34 Buppy

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Posted 19 May 2012 - 11:21 AM

He was talking about Jarret Stoll. None of the Staal brothers play for the Kings.

It bears mentioning that Stoll is also better than Abby.

He had a terrible year offensively, though still only two fewer goals and one less point than Abby. Consistently one of the top faceoff men in the league. Very good on the PK. Typically good for 15+ goals and 40+ points. Same size and just as physical as Abby.

I think he'd be a great addition to our bottom six.

Gus-Stoll-Bert/Cleary
Abby-Helm-Eaves/Miller/Mursak

Some veteran savvy and offensive acumen for Gus to work with, without the pressure of high expectations and top pair opposition he'd get in the top 6. Perfect spot for him to transition to the NHL.

#35 Jesusberg

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Posted 19 May 2012 - 11:42 AM

In all honesty, they are getting hot at the right time, and despite doing so well since the coaching change and having Quick on fire, if they end up playing the Rangers in the finals, they will be playing against a more playoff and adversity prepared team than any they have faced so far.


This is dead on. They had the 2nd worst goals for per game in the league heading into the post-season, and it was pretty much Quick carrying them most of the year. Their offensive blew up at the right time, and they've had some guys play above their regular season performances (Penner, King, etc.). Not taking any credit away from their play now, but they were underperforming during the regular season, and I believe they're overperforming right now. They're playing a solid team game right now and are on fire.

Do the Red Wings have to get better? Absolutely, but I'm not sure if any other team is a "model". They've done the right things for so many years, but now they need some youth and talent injected into the line-up.

#36 Ally

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Posted 19 May 2012 - 02:35 PM

I can't disagree more with the posters saying that Abby is better than Stoll (or Stall as I guess we're calling him here) I would love to have Stoll as a Wing
As for modeling after the Kings, yea that's a bit silly in my opinion. Aren't we still a team that other teams model themselves after? (I'm lookin at you SJS). When the Kings play better than us for a long time then maaaybe look at trying out their system.
That said, the Kings show up for every game and have a lot of heart...wouldn't mind having guys that looked like they cared a little more.

 
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#37 GMRwings1983

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Posted 19 May 2012 - 02:45 PM

I can't disagree more with the posters saying that Abby is better than Stoll (or Stall as I guess we're calling him here) I would love to have Stoll as a Wing
As for modeling after the Kings, yea that's a bit silly in my opinion. Aren't we still a team that other teams model themselves after? (I'm lookin at you SJS). When the Kings play better than us for a long time then maaaybe look at trying out their system.
That said, the Kings show up for every game and have a lot of heart...wouldn't mind having guys that looked like they cared a little more.


Not to mention, Stoll is a right handed shot and a great faceoff man. Something we could use on the team someday.
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#38 Dabura

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Posted 19 May 2012 - 06:35 PM

1) Regardless of draft slots, add Parise, add Suter, and add a couple of big cheap power forwards to the bottom six and we're very, very similar.


I hate to say it, but: nope.

These Kings and our Wings are night and day, fire and ice - and it's not just a matter of adding a couple players and telling our #4 defenseman to play meaner. Different philosophies. Different systems. Different guiding hands (i.e. coaches). And that's before we even get to talking about the rosters.

The Wings aren't young. We aren't especially big, fast, or tough. We aren't especially hungry or committed to winning (let alone winning at any cost). Our defense isn't good enough to play true lockdown, shutdown D. Our offense isn't good enough to flat-out overwhelm. Our goalie can't be counted on to stand on his head and win games for us singlehandedly. What we are is skilled with the puck, when we have the puck. And that's enough for us to be competitive every year. The Kings, on the other hand, have, e.g., a lights-out goalie, and are, e.g., incredibly young.

Edited by Dabura, 19 May 2012 - 06:38 PM.

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#39 haroldsnepsts

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Posted 19 May 2012 - 08:02 PM

I can't disagree more with the posters saying that Abby is better than Stoll (or Stall as I guess we're calling him here) I would love to have Stoll as a Wing
As for modeling after the Kings, yea that's a bit silly in my opinion. Aren't we still a team that other teams model themselves after? (I'm lookin at you SJS). When the Kings play better than us for a long time then maaaybe look at trying out their system.
That said, the Kings show up for every game and have a lot of heart...wouldn't mind having guys that looked like they cared a little more.

AGreed. I didn't respond to that post because I wasn't even sure the guy was thinking of the right player.

This year in LA everyone struggled offensively, but I think he's still a 40 point guy. That's something Abby hasn't managed yet.

He's good in the faceoff circle, is their #1 forward on the PK this postseason. Can play the power play. Hits. Stoll was the second line center until they brought in Richards last season.

Here's a pretty good piece on him from ESPN

http://espn.go.com/n...ntributing-roll

Maybe one day Abby will develop into that kind of player, but right now there's no way he's better than Stoll.

#40 SouthernWingsFan

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Posted 19 May 2012 - 08:51 PM

Given that the Kings are the lowest seed in the conference, I'd say no. As has been mentioned, they've gone on a hot streak at the right time, which in most professional sports playoff formats, is sometimes all you need to make a deep playoff run, in general simple theory (i.e. recent Super Bowl Champs in Green Bay and Pittsburgh were low seeds).

Even before improving their offense a bit by acquiring Jeff Carter, I'm surprised they had so much trouble scoring. I would've penciled them in as a playoff lock/not struggling to make the playoffs (though that entire conference struggled).





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