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The truth of our decline.


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#101 LeftWinger

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 05:37 AM

Wait, so the truth behind our decline is who did & did not represent USA & Canada in the WHC? Whew, I thought it was age and injuries....

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#102 sibiriak

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 09:35 AM

Just a quick example. STL and Wash lost in the same round. Semin went and backes did not.

True, but by that time, most teams only had at most 1 or 2 open spots remaining, Russia kept them open for OV and Semin, US and Canada could have had a pair of reinforcements each, but chose not to keep any spots open. So in practice, anybody not free after the first round of the NHL playoffs was too late for Canada or the US.

And I agree this horse have been dead for some time. I was not debating you in the beginning, you just jumped in and made me repeat and expand. Sorry.

Edited by sibiriak, 22 May 2012 - 09:36 AM.


#103 Nightfall

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 10:47 AM

No team in the NHL (aside from the teams that get top10 picks every year) have "sure fire" NHLers in their farm system. That doesn't change the fact that DRWs have some of the best looking prospects they've had in 20 years. Besides Yzerman, who was Detroit's "sure fire" pick? Red Wings currently have two NHLers in the farm named Smith and Nyquist. Whether or not they are future stars, nobody knows. But they sure as hell will be NHLers. You'd have to very ignorant about hockey to not see this.

5 players hitting the prime of their careers is pretty amazing. Nothing to be all chicken little about, that's for sure. You also conveniently forgot to rebut on the cap space DRWs have.... doesn't fit into your agenda?

You are really blinded by negativity. It must be miserable being you.

You sound like a guy on another message forum named "Captain Bob", are you related?

I have to agree with this.

Along with the fact that the Red Wings are going to spend to the cap like they have for the last 15+ years. This year's $4.5 million dollars was the most cap space that I have seen the Wings have in a season, and I also agreed with the Wings by not overspending to get someone at the trade deadline. You know that the Wings are going to go into the free agent market with $15 million or so to spend, and they will spend it to get the best free agents that will make the biggest impact for their team.

The Wings are going to make the playoffs again next season. Then, the Wings are in position to compete for the cup once again. With the potential of a #8 seeded Kings and #6 seeded Devils teams in the SCF, parity really is the key word.
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#104 number9

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 10:47 AM

No team in the NHL (aside from the teams that get top10 picks every year) have "sure fire" NHLers in their farm system. That doesn't change the fact that DRWs have some of the best looking prospects they've had in 20 years. Besides Yzerman, who was Detroit's "sure fire" pick? Red Wings currently have two NHLers in the farm named Smith and Nyquist. Whether or not they are future stars, nobody knows. But they sure as hell will be NHLers. You'd have to very ignorant about hockey to not see this.

5 players hitting the prime of their careers is pretty amazing. Nothing to be all chicken little about, that's for sure. You also conveniently forgot to rebut on the cap space DRWs have.... doesn't fit into your agenda?

You are really blinded by negativity. It must be miserable being you.

You sound like a guy on another message forum named "Captain Bob", are you related?


In the past we never really had a stacked farm....yet we always had amazing players trickling through the system....but now for once i can say im actually really excited about our farm....so many good players, so much potential there, im like a giddy school girl lol....if worst came to worst and only a few trickled through i would still be thrilled!

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#105 pucktividi

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 11:37 AM

The people are more negative,because of our(another) early exit,which is reasonable.

Shouldn't be negative about our prospects though,based on the last wjhc (jurčo,mrazek,backman,pulkkinen)or recent whc(jarnkrok,tatar).
The majority of them are not NHL ready yet,but it's hard to ignore theirs good development.

#106 rrasco

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 12:01 PM

More notable ones: Backstrom (G), Kiprusoff, Pitkanen, Hamrlik, T.Ruutu, Edler, Murray, Paajarvi, Enstrom, Hossa, Visnovsky, Jurcina, Meszaros, Halak, Hornquist, A.Markov, Radulov, Voynov and I'm sure i forgot many more.


Paajarvi is playing for the Barons in the Calder Cup. Not sure if that was because the Oilers didn't qualify for the playoffs or if that his forte.

No! Not a new thread! The thread police will come out and attack you! Which btw makes zero sense. What is the purpose of a forum if you can't make new threads?????


You can start new threads here, just not a new thread every day about the same topic.

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#107 Richdg

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 12:18 PM

The people are more negative,because of our(another) early exit,which is reasonable.

Shouldn't be negative about our prospects though,based on the last wjhc (jurčo,mrazek,backman,pulkkinen)or recent whc(jarnkrok,tatar).
The majority of them are not NHL ready yet,but it's hard to ignore theirs good development.



You have just stumbled on the point. They are all playing in the Juniors. That is equal in age to HS and the first year of college. All of them are 3+ years from seriously pushing for time in the NHL. If they ever do. History is filled with good junior players that never work out. Or guys that score a lot in the Juniors that never become more than 4th line checkers.

In the past we never really had a stacked farm....yet we always had amazing players trickling through the system....but now for once i can say im actually really excited about our farm....so many good players, so much potential there, im like a giddy school girl lol....if worst came to worst and only a few trickled through i would still be thrilled!

The brilliant mind of Lloyd Christmas + The positive outlook of Friedrich Nietzsche + The cool headedness of Chicken Little = Richdg



So funny. Clearly you have no idea what you are talking about. But that is ok. Sooner or latter you will understand that I am right. Just make sure you post it as much as your bile.

#108 Nightfall

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 02:13 PM

You have just stumbled on the point. They are all playing in the Juniors. That is equal in age to HS and the first year of college. All of them are 3+ years from seriously pushing for time in the NHL. If they ever do. History is filled with good junior players that never work out. Or guys that score a lot in the Juniors that never become more than 4th line checkers.

So funny. Clearly you have no idea what you are talking about. But that is ok. Sooner or latter you will understand that I am right. Just make sure you post it as much as your bile.

If you look at the farm systems of every NHL team, there are bright spots. Only a few will make the NHL on a regular basis, and even fewer of those will excel in the league. Now, it all depends on how you look at it. If you ask someone who has faith in the farm team players and has seen them play in the minors with success, they are happy. If you ask a negative nancy, who believes that the Wings are going to suck in a few years, then those people are unhappy. You are a glass half empty kind of guy, and there is nothing wrong with that.

Which leads me into the next statement. So far, just reading through your numerous posts, you are taking the negative side to just about everything. Which factors into your negative rating with such a low post count. The issue here isn't that you are "telling it like it is". The real issue is that everyone who responds to you is totally, irrefutably, incorrect and obviously deluded. Just looking through this thread, there are a couple people who back your statement, but for the most part, everyone here has refuted it and even pointed out statistics that reinforce their points. Yet, you just shrug it off and say that they are biased.

Just a small piece of advice here.....

If you are going to take a stance on an issue, and some people disagree with you, at least acknowledge that you can agree to disagree with them. Not everyone with an alternate point of view is obviously deluded. :)
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#109 Johnz96

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 02:18 PM

If you look at the farm systems of every NHL team, there are bright spots. Only a few will make the NHL on a regular basis, and even fewer of those will excel in the league. Now, it all depends on how you look at it. If you ask someone who has faith in the farm team players and has seen them play in the minors with success, they are happy. If you ask a negative nancy, who believes that the Wings are going to suck in a few years, then those people are unhappy. You are a glass half empty kind of guy, and there is nothing wrong with that.

Which leads me into the next statement. So far, just reading through your numerous posts, you are taking the negative side to just about everything. Which factors into your negative rating with such a low post count. The issue here isn't that you are "telling it like it is". The real issue is that everyone who responds to you is totally, irrefutably, incorrect and obviously deluded. Just looking through this thread, there are a couple people who back your statement, but for the most part, everyone here has refuted it and even pointed out statistics that reinforce their points. Yet, you just shrug it off and say that they are biased.

Just a small piece of advice here.....

If you are going to take a stance on an issue, and some people disagree with you, at least acknowledge that you can agree to disagree with them. Not everyone with an alternate point of view is obviously deluded. :)


I do agree with everything you said except that there is nothing wrong with being glass is half empty kind of guy. Richdg point of view is deluded he should take those s*** stained glasses off

Edited by Johnz96, 26 May 2012 - 04:35 PM.


#110 haroldsnepsts

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 02:34 PM

Please keep the discussion to the topic at hand and the content of the posts, not the person making them.

Thanks.

#111 F.Michael

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 03:08 PM

If only more Wings fans could be like you.

You can toss me in with Richdg, and centcougar07...Many here are in for a rude awakening.

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#112 LeftWinger

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 05:08 PM

The truth behind our decline is a waning system that seems to be faltering...Holland continues to go with the same type of players both up front and on D. It seems we will never know if our future is bright because Holland keeps signing the same players every year. This should have been a year sans Bertuzzi, Holmstrom, Hudler & possibly Lidstrom. But we are stuck with Bertuzzi for two more (at a higher salary) and the talk is Holmstrom is wanted back if he is ready. So if Holmer and Lidstrom come back, and we know Holland is more than likely going to attempt to re-sign Hudler, when do we get to see our future? This system of letting our prospects overripen in the minors is getting annoying to me. If they aren't good enough, don't draft them, if they are ready bring them up. Please, PLEASE stop drafting 5 year projects before this team ends up a team full of Kopecky's... Holland, I am calling you out, MAKE AN IMPACT this year!!!

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#113 pucktividi

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 05:15 PM

You have just stumbled on the point. They are all playing in the Juniors. That is equal in age to HS and the first year of college. All of them are 3+ years from seriously pushing for time in the NHL. If they ever do. History is filled with good junior players that never work out. Or guys that score a lot in the Juniors that never become more than 4th line checkers.


Then how some skinny,undersized,inexperienced swedish kid named Jarnkrok got a chance to play on the line with Alfie and another top prospect Landeskog who already had a full NHL season behind,or how Gus Nyquist made a jump from NCAA to the main Wings squad in about one season :ph34r:

#114 Doc Holliday

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 05:43 PM

You can toss me in with Richdg, and centcougar07...Many here are in for a rude awakening.


Based on what? It would help if you follow up an unpopular opinion with something to back it up.

LeftWinger: Your belief about Holmstrom is not founded on reality. Holland has said they are still seeing if he has the energy and passion to play, and has strictly said it is not Homer's call. Also even if he is signed to a contract he won't be guaranteed a roster spot by a long shot. I see him either retiring or sitting in the press box most of the season.

Edited by Doc Holliday, 22 May 2012 - 05:48 PM.

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#115 Hatethedrake!

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 05:48 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m0CAqe6A8LI

You can toss me in with Richdg, and centcougar07...Many here are in for a rude awakening.


I hope not. This looks like it might hurt.
Jordan Tootoo will wreck shop.

We need someone like Parise that can penetrate the box.-blueadams

#116 LeftWinger

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 05:54 PM

Based on what? It would help if you follow up an unpopular opinion with something to back it up.

LeftWinger: Your belief about Holmstrom is not founded on reality. Holland has said they are still seeing if he has the energy and passion to play, and has strictly said it is not Homer's call. Also even if he is signed to a contract he won't be guaranteed a roster spot by a long shot. I see him either retiring or sitting in the press box most of the season.

I am sure if Holland has $1M for him, he will have some energy to sit in the press box. I love him, don't get me wrong, but I am ready for the next wave. I guess for a 13th or 14th forward, he is better than most and do not want our "future" (which I am still skeptical off) sitting in the press box...

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#117 kipwinger

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 05:58 PM

Wait, correct me if I'm wrong: Didn't six years pass between the Cups in 2002 and 2008? Didn't we see a ton of player turnover, including key players like Shanahan, Yzerman, and Fedorov? Didn't we get bounced from the playoffs early a few times in those six years? Didn't we make the playoffs every year in between based on the strength of the core? How many people were screaming doom during those six year? I've got to guess a whole lot of people were...

Didn't we inevitably win another Cup in 2008 and make it to the Finals again in 2009, once our young talent developed and reached maturity?

You can't win the Cup every year. You can't make the Conference Finals every year. The best you can do is make the playoffs every year, and once and a while make it over the top if an FA here or there, or a young rising star, makes a good team a great one.

We've got the core. We make the playoffs every year. We've got good young talent developing, and money for a couple FA's.

What decline?

Edited: for typos...which are the bane of my existence.

Edited by kipwinger, 22 May 2012 - 07:35 PM.

GMRwings:  "Well, in other civilized countries, 16 years old isn't considered underage.  For instance, I believe the age of consent is 16 in Canada.  There's some US states where it's 16 as well.  

 

Get off the high horse.  Not like she was 10."

 

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#118 LeftWinger

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 06:35 PM

Wait, correct me if I'm wrong: Didn't six years pass between the Cups in 2002 and 2008? Didn't we see a ton of player turnover, including key players like Shanahan, Yzerman, and Fedorov? Didn't see get bounced from the playoffs early a few times in those six years? Didn't we make the playoffs every year in between based on the strength of the core? How many people were screaming doom during those six year? I've got to guess a whole lot of people were...

Didn't we inevitably win another Cup in 2008 and make it to the Finals in 2009 once our young talent developed and reached maturity?

You win the Cup every year. You can't make the Conference Finals every year. The best you can do is make the playoffs every year and once and a while make it over the top if an FA here or there, or a young rising star.

We've got the core. We make the playoffs every year. We've got good young talent developing, and money for a couple FA's.

What decline?

Nicely put...I just hope Holland spends that cash for a couple of FA's that are gonna lead this team to our next Cup after the Dat's and Z's retire...

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#119 haroldsnepsts

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 07:39 PM

I'll repeat my warning. Discuss the content of the posts, not the people posting it.

Next time I have to clean up the thread I start handing out suspensions/permabans.


C'mon people, it's the offseason and you're seriously going to make me go all mod on you?

#120 number9

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 07:40 PM

So funny. Clearly you have no idea what you are talking about. But that is ok. Sooner or latter you will understand that I am right. Just make sure you post it as much as your bile.



Clearly.....why dont you try using some evidence for once instead of "i am right"....oh and the SKEWED stats you used to start this thread don't count lol....pretty sure I already disproved them with my own anyway

Wait, correct me if I'm wrong: Didn't six years pass between the Cups in 2002 and 2008? Didn't we see a ton of player turnover, including key players like Shanahan, Yzerman, and Fedorov? Didn't see get bounced from the playoffs early a few times in those six years? Didn't we make the playoffs every year in between based on the strength of the core? How many people were screaming doom during those six year? I've got to guess a whole lot of people were...

Didn't we inevitably win another Cup in 2008 and make it to the Finals in 2009 once our young talent developed and reached maturity?

You win the Cup every year. You can't make the Conference Finals every year. The best you can do is make the playoffs every year and once and a while make it over the top if an FA here or there, or a young rising star.

We've got the core. We make the playoffs every year. We've got good young talent developing, and money for a couple FA's.

What decline?



I'm glad someone else learned from the past. Holland would applaud your foresight sir.





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