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Richdg

A general, how I would build a team

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Before anyone jumps off of a bridge, this has nothing to do with any team. It is a general set of thoughts. What would I do in terms of team make up and roster control/spending if I was running a NHL team. Keeping some things in mind: 23 man roster and a 70 million $ cap, here we go.

1. Player experience/roster management. Ok we have a 23 man roster. It is impossible to have all 23 players between 27 and 32, which is the prime of most players careers. Not to mention the cost of having a team like that. My ideal roster would have 2 rookies, 2 second year, 2 third year, 2 fourth year, 2 5th, 2 6th, 2 7th, 2 8th, 2 9th, 2 10th, 2 11th, and 1 guy with 12 or more. By doing this you are keeping young and cheap plays coming in and managing the costs. If the average rookie is 22 when he makes the roster, this still keeps the majority of the players between 26 and 32. The prime playing years. Some of course come earlier and some later.

2. managing the cap. If you divide 70 million by 23, you spend 3 million per player. if you actual payroll looked like that you would have a pretty poor team. Also most rookies and young players don't make nor do they need to make 3 million per year. So where and how much do i spend? The backup goalie, 7th Dman, and the 13th and 14th forwards are all at 1 million or less. That is 4 guys of the 23. leaving 66 million to spend on 19 players. The starting goalie is in a 5 million per slot. The 1-6 Dman make the oppisite amount. IE the 1 makes 6, the 2 makes 5, the 3 makes 4, the 4 makes 3, the 5 makes 2 and the 6 makes 1. At this point I have allocated 30 million of the 70 and covered 11 players. Leaving 40 million for the remaining 12 forwards. The 4th line guys make 2 million each. This leaves 9 players and 34 million left to spend. The 6 remaining RW and LW each get paid 3 million. This leaves 3 players and 16 million to spend. The 1 and 2 C get 6 million each, and the 3rd C makes 4 million. That allocates all 70 million allowed for the cap.

3. Now i have never been inside of RW HQ. But I am sure they have a plan along these lines somewhere. Every company does. You have to know where the money is going etc..... Now some may want to spend more accross the board on the top line. So be it, everyone has their own opinions. But in the end, you still have to have 23 players and can only spend 70.

later I will take these thoughts and tie these with the wings and their roster. I am sure that will be fun! LOL!

Jocke likes this

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That's far too mechanical. Team building has to be organic. Find your strengths and develop around that, from whatever resources are available at the time.

Even starting from a blank slate, there's only going to be so many options. If you're trying to conform to some rigid price and experience structure, you're limiting your options too far. Your approach would only work in a hypothetical world where a good option that fit your model was always available.

A general outline is fine, provided you're willing to be flexible when appropriate. Yours just goes way too far.

A young skill-player or two

A young grinder or two

A young defenseman or two

A handful of seasoned veterans

All the above on cheap contracts, allowing exceptions for exceptional players.

The rest of the roster in their 'prime' give or take a year or two. As many as possible below market value, limited long-term deals.

Strong two-way centers, at least 3, but 4-5 if possible (as long as said players can adjust to the wing), a few snipers, a few playmakers. As many versatile players as possible. Lots of speed. A few high-energy guys, very good on defense, and physical. One of them a center with very good faceoff skills. 3-4 defenseman who can score but aren't liabilities on defense. A couple physical stay-at-home guys. A good goalie.

Age/experience/cap hits to be determined by availablility, priority of need, and future options.

number9 likes this

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How do you build a successful NHL team you ask? It's simple. I don't get why people think Ken Holland's so smart??

Forwards:

6mil-6mil-5mil

5mil-6mil-5mil

1mil-1mil-1mil

1mil-1mil-1mil

1mil, 1mil

Defensemen:

5mil-5mil

5mil-5mil

1mil-1mil

1mil

Goalies:

5mil

1mil

...THAT's how you structure a 70 million dollar salary cap in today's NHL. There are 11 players that you give about 5mil to (and three of them you could give 6mil to) - your top six forwards, your top four defensemen and your goalie. I don't care if you draft and develop them, if you trade for them, or if you sign them. You get them. That's where you need your elite talent.

...As for the rest of the guys, your bottom six forwards, your bottom pairing defenseman, your backup goalie, and your healthy scratches. None of these guys should be making more than 1mil a season. Most of them should be cheap, young, big, strong, fast, tough, hard-working ready-to-play draft picks that you make. They don't need to be able to score. They just need to be those things. And you can find those things anywhere in the draft if you're looking for them. If one of the guy's blows up and is in line for a big contract...you let him walk...and you call up the next guy.

Simple as that.

Edited by blueadams
Dabura likes this

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If I had a nickel for every new thread started about how to build this team or who we should add in the offseason, I'd be able to buy the Phoenix Coyotes.

number9 likes this

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If I had a nickel for every new thread started about how to build this team or who we should add in the offseason, I'd be able to buy the Phoenix Coyotes.

I think you're underestimating a bit. You would be able to afford the Wings, Leafs, or Rangers by now.

Wings_Toledo likes this

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Before anyone jumps off of a bridge, this has nothing to do with any team. It is a general set of thoughts. What would I do in terms of team make up and roster control/spending if I was running a NHL team. Keeping some things in mind: 23 man roster and a 70 million $ cap, here we go.

1. Player experience/roster management. Ok we have a 23 man roster. It is impossible to have all 23 players between 27 and 32, which is the prime of most players careers. Not to mention the cost of having a team like that. My ideal roster would have 2 rookies, 2 second year, 2 third year, 2 fourth year, 2 5th, 2 6th, 2 7th, 2 8th, 2 9th, 2 10th, 2 11th, and 1 guy with 12 or more. By doing this you are keeping young and cheap plays coming in and managing the costs. If the average rookie is 22 when he makes the roster, this still keeps the majority of the players between 26 and 32. The prime playing years. Some of course come earlier and some later.

2. managing the cap. If you divide 70 million by 23, you spend 3 million per player. if you actual payroll looked like that you would have a pretty poor team. Also most rookies and young players don't make nor do they need to make 3 million per year. So where and how much do i spend? The backup goalie, 7th Dman, and the 13th and 14th forwards are all at 1 million or less. That is 4 guys of the 23. leaving 66 million to spend on 19 players. The starting goalie is in a 5 million per slot. The 1-6 Dman make the oppisite amount. IE the 1 makes 6, the 2 makes 5, the 3 makes 4, the 4 makes 3, the 5 makes 2 and the 6 makes 1. At this point I have allocated 30 million of the 70 and covered 11 players. Leaving 40 million for the remaining 12 forwards. The 4th line guys make 2 million each. This leaves 9 players and 34 million left to spend. The 6 remaining RW and LW each get paid 3 million. This leaves 3 players and 16 million to spend. The 1 and 2 C get 6 million each, and the 3rd C makes 4 million. That allocates all 70 million allowed for the cap.

3. Now i have never been inside of RW HQ. But I am sure they have a plan along these lines somewhere. Every company does. You have to know where the money is going etc..... Now some may want to spend more accross the board on the top line. So be it, everyone has their own opinions. But in the end, you still have to have 23 players and can only spend 70.

later I will take these thoughts and tie these with the wings and their roster. I am sure that will be fun! LOL!

4. Of course as time moves forward the cap will increase. As the cap goes from 70-72 million I would add that money to the 3rd center. that spot is now budgeted for 6 million. later as the cap adds the next 6 million, I would increase the budgeted amounts for the top 6 RW/LW. each of those 6 positions now make 4 million. After that, all additional cap increases would get divided equally amoung the top 3 C, top 2 D, and the starting goalie.

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How do you build a successful NHL team you ask? It's simple. I don't get why people think Ken Holland's so smart??

Forwards:

6mil-6mil-5mil

5mil-6mil-5mil

1mil-1mil-1mil

1mil-1mil-1mil

1mil, 1mil

Defensemen:

5mil-5mil

5mil-5mil

1mil-1mil

1mil

Goalies:

5mil

1mil

...THAT's how you structure a 70 million dollar salary cap in today's NHL. There are 11 players that you give about 5mil to (and three of them you could give 6mil to) - your top six forwards, your top four defensemen and your goalie. I don't care if you draft and develop them, if you trade for them, or if you sign them. You get them. That's where you need your elite talent.

...As for the rest of the guys, your bottom six forwards, your bottom pairing defenseman, your backup goalie, and your healthy scratches. None of these guys should be making more than 1mil a season. Most of them should be cheap, young, big, strong, fast, tough, hard-working ready-to-play draft picks that you make. They don't need to be able to score. They just need to be those things. And you can find those things anywhere in the draft if you're looking for them. If one of the guy's blows up and is in line for a big contract...you let him walk...and you call up the next guy.

Simple as that.

This represents either some brilliant parody or a shocking lack of understanding.

ogreslayer, Frozen-Man and number9 like this

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How do you build a successful NHL team you ask? It's simple. I don't get why people think Ken Holland's so smart??

Forwards:

6mil-6mil-5mil

5mil-6mil-5mil

1mil-1mil-1mil

1mil-1mil-1mil

1mil, 1mil

Defensemen:

5mil-5mil

5mil-5mil

1mil-1mil

1mil

Goalies:

5mil

1mil

...THAT's how you structure a 70 million dollar salary cap in today's NHL. There are 11 players that you give about 5mil to (and three of them you could give 6mil to) - your top six forwards, your top four defensemen and your goalie. I don't care if you draft and develop them, if you trade for them, or if you sign them. You get them. That's where you need your elite talent.

...As for the rest of the guys, your bottom six forwards, your bottom pairing defenseman, your backup goalie, and your healthy scratches. None of these guys should be making more than 1mil a season. Most of them should be cheap, young, big, strong, fast, tough, hard-working ready-to-play draft picks that you make. They don't need to be able to score. They just need to be those things. And you can find those things anywhere in the draft if you're looking for them. If one of the guy's blows up and is in line for a big contract...you let him walk...and you call up the next guy.

Simple as that.

What you are talking about is completely impossible. For example. Our #5 D is either ericsson or Quincy. Both are over 3 million per season. Your buddy Stoll is in the 2.5+ range as a 3rd or 4th liner. The cold hard trueth is, guys in the league for more than 3 years will make 2+ million as bench players.

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How do you build a successful NHL team you ask? It's simple. I don't get why people think Ken Holland's so smart??

Forwards:

6mil-6mil-5mil

5mil-6mil-5mil

1mil-1mil-1mil

1mil-1mil-1mil

1mil, 1mil

Defensemen:

5mil-5mil

5mil-5mil

1mil-1mil

1mil

Goalies:

5mil

1mil

...THAT's how you structure a 70 million dollar salary cap in today's NHL. There are 11 players that you give about 5mil to (and three of them you could give 6mil to) - your top six forwards, your top four defensemen and your goalie. I don't care if you draft and develop them, if you trade for them, or if you sign them. You get them. That's where you need your elite talent.

...As for the rest of the guys, your bottom six forwards, your bottom pairing defenseman, your backup goalie, and your healthy scratches. None of these guys should be making more than 1mil a season. Most of them should be cheap, young, big, strong, fast, tough, hard-working ready-to-play draft picks that you make. They don't need to be able to score. They just need to be those things. And you can find those things anywhere in the draft if you're looking for them. If one of the guy's blows up and is in line for a big contract...you let him walk...and you call up the next guy.

Simple as that.

I'm shocked that no one has picked up on the sarcasm of this post.

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If I had a nickel for every new thread started about how to build this team or who we should add in the offseason, I'd be able to buy the Phoenix Coyotes.

Damn. You'd have an up-and-coming organization there. Dallas is kicking themselves for letting Tippett go.

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4. Of course as time moves forward the cap will increase. As the cap goes from 70-72 million I would add that money to the 3rd center. that spot is now budgeted for 6 million. later as the cap adds the next 6 million, I would increase the budgeted amounts for the top 6 RW/LW. each of those 6 positions now make 4 million. After that, all additional cap increases would get divided equally amoung the top 3 C, top 2 D, and the starting goalie.

5. I posted this on another thread as well, but needs to be repeated here. In general, men reach their physical peaks around 27. if you go look at players in every sport, they generally have their best years from age 27-32. yes you can have some freaks come along, but those are rare. Ideally, 1/3 to 1/2 of the team would be in this age group. it is hard to get to 1/2 now with the cap, because guys this age in their primes, get paid premium dollars. But a team should have 10+ guys between 27 and 32. With the balance split equally between those younger and older than this group. In a perfect world, you have 11 guys between 27-32, 6 guys 26 and younger, and 6 guys 33 and older. if things are really going well, your top 3 forwards, top 2 dmen, and starting goalie are in the group 27-32.

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5. I posted this on another thread as well, but needs to be repeated here. In general, men reach their physical peaks around 27. if you go look at players in every sport, they generally have their best years from age 27-32. yes you can have some freaks come along, but those are rare. Ideally, 1/3 to 1/2 of the team would be in this age group. it is hard to get to 1/2 now with the cap, because guys this age in their primes, get paid premium dollars. But a team should have 10+ guys between 27 and 32. With the balance split equally between those younger and older than this group. In a perfect world, you have 11 guys between 27-32, 6 guys 26 and younger, and 6 guys 33 and older. if things are really going well, your top 3 forwards, top 2 dmen, and starting goalie are in the group 27-32.

Honestly, nothing you've ever posted needs to be repeated here, or anywhere. Ever.

Edited by hooon
Frozen-Man, number9, Buppy and 5 others like this

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Honestly, nothing you've ever posted needs to be repeated here, or anywhere. Ever.

I only regret that I have but one +1 to give.

number9 likes this

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I'm shocked that no one has picked up on the sarcasm of this post.

:)

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5. I posted this on another thread as well, but needs to be repeated here. In general, men reach their physical peaks around 27. if you go look at players in every sport, they generally have their best years from age 27-32. yes you can have some freaks come along, but those are rare. Ideally, 1/3 to 1/2 of the team would be in this age group. it is hard to get to 1/2 now with the cap, because guys this age in their primes, get paid premium dollars. But a team should have 10+ guys between 27 and 32. With the balance split equally between those younger and older than this group. In a perfect world, you have 11 guys between 27-32, 6 guys 26 and younger, and 6 guys 33 and older. if things are really going well, your top 3 forwards, top 2 dmen, and starting goalie are in the group 27-32.

So you're saying the Wings are a little too young?

Looking at top 15 forwards, top 8 defensemen, and top 3 goalies in games played:

8 players 26 or under

12 players 27-32

6 players over 32

4 out of 6 optimal positions are 27-32

Taking out the injury replacements:

7 under

10 prime

6 over

Prior to adding Quincey and moving Commodore, we were perfect though. Guess it's no wonder things went south right after that...

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Honestly, nothing you've ever posted needs to be repeated here, or anywhere. Ever.

Way to show a complete lack of class. But you have to live with yourself, not me. To bad you can't engage your mind. Good to see the old commie trick of: "if you can't refute the message, attack the messager", is alive and well.

Edited by Richdg
55fan likes this

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Way to show a complete lack of class. But you have to live with yourself, not me. To bad you can't engage your mind. Good to see the old commie trick of: "if you can't refute the message, attack the messager", is alive and well.

Go-Away-Dont_go_mad.jpg

Frozen-Man likes this

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So you're saying the Wings are a little too young?

Looking at top 15 forwards, top 8 defensemen, and top 3 goalies in games played:

8 players 26 or under

12 players 27-32

6 players over 32

4 out of 6 optimal positions are 27-32

Taking out the injury replacements:

7 under

10 prime

6 over

Prior to adding Quincey and moving Commodore, we were perfect though. Guess it's no wonder things went south right after that...

I wasn't talking about the RW yet. But since you brought it up, lets. Currently the RW have 21 returning players from last year returning. Here they are by age groups, with their age in 2012.

26 and under:

Abby 25

Emmerton 24

Helm 25

Mursak 24

Nyquist 22

Kindl 25

Smith 23

27-32:

Eaves 28

Filppula 28

Miller 28

Zetterberg 32

Ericsson 28

Kronwall 31

Quincey 27

White 28

Howard 28

MacDonald 32

Over 32:

Bert 37

Cleary 34

Dat 34

Franzen 33

Then there are the old UFA's Lidstrom and Hommer. 42 and 38 respectively.

On the surface the roster is balanced fairly well. Majority of the team in the 27-32 year old group. 4 of the 6 premuim positions covered in that group. But that is also were some of the questions arise for the team. Filppula and Howard are UFA's after this coming season, and Zetterberg moves out of it due to age. Now we are down to just 1 of the 6 premium postions covered by this group. White is solid as a #4 D, but can either Quincey or Ericsson become a #3 D? Both are going to be/are paid like one. eaves, Miller, and MacDonald are just backup role players and that is fine. The question is: where do our next group of stars come from? History says this is the make/break years for Ericsson and Quincey. Most of us feel good about Smith. The rest of or prospects are several years away. this is also why everyone is talking so much about signing(insert your fav. UFA here) free agents. We need a youthfull talent infusion.

Now look at the roster via lines and budget amounts. yes this is just my opinions and everyone has their own versions of this.

top line: LW(3m budget): open, C(6m budget) Datsyuk, RW(3m budget) Franzen, this line needs a new LW

2nd line: LW (3m budget) open, C(6m bidget) Zetterberg, RW(3m budget) open, this line needs a new RW and LW

3rd line: LW(3m budget) Nyquist, C(4m budget) Filppula, RW(3m budget) Cleary, this line is set for the year.

4th line: LW(2m budget) Abdelkader, C(2m budget) Helm, RW(2m budget) Bertuzzi, this line is set for the year.

13 and 14th forwards: Mursak and Emmerton. Both are under the 1m per year budget.

Defense:

top pair: 1D(6m budget) open, 2D(5m budget) Kronwall, we need a new #1, ideally a RH shot.

2nd pair: 3D(4m budget) Quincey?, 4D(3m budget) White, can Quincey be a number 3d?

3rd pair: 5D(2m budget) Ericsson-overpaid? or can he become the 3D?, 6D(1m budget) Smith

7D: Kindl, under the 1 million per year budget

Goalies:

starting G: Howard, budget is 5 million and he is under that

backup G:MacDonald, budget is 1 million and he is at it

Now looking at the roster this way, we have 2 guys that don't really fit: Miller and Eaves. Neither one is good enough to fill any of the 3 open forward positions. We also have a hole at the #1 D. That is 4 opens to be filled via trade or FA. With the current contracts and budgeting, our total payroll would be 65 million. Leaving 5 million (based on an estimated cap of 70 million) leftover to bank for next season. After this season we have the following UFA's: Howard (should resign for 5 m or less per year), White (should resing for about 3 m per year), Cleary-needs to be let go and free up his 2.8 million cap hit, and Filppula who maybe should be let go, freeing up his 3 million per year. With those 4 contracts expirering, and a modest cap increase to 72 million, we will have 18 million to spend. 5 goes to Howard, 3 to White, leaving 10 million left to fill the #3 C and the #3 RW position. If, and we can hope Bertuzzi retires, that adds another 1.5 million to spend, if Sheahan is ready to take his spot on the 4th line.

By doing all of this, you can start to see something of a 2 year plan, to keep us moving forward, without a huge drop off. I am not going into the 100$ guessing game of naming FA's or trades, that horse has been beat to death already. But there are several UFA's this year that stay in budget and fill our 4 holes, while improving our team. Then we get to the loaded 2013 class of UFA's and can find a potentail super to help at C.

Edited by Richdg

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Honestly, nothing you've ever posted needs to be repeated here, or anywhere. Ever.

Now, now. It's a public forum. (S)he has as much right to express his/her opinion as someone with a brilliant hockey mind.

It's the off-season. We need some discussion else we die of ennui.

Not to mention that (s)he is good for my self-esteem.

number9 and Frozen-Man like this

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