Excellent 'Parise and Suter to Detroit' article

[Guest blueadams]

http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20120524/SPORTS0103/205240354/1128/rss16

It sounds like Parise and Suter really are a package deal. It sounds like Detroit really is one of the very few teams that interests them (has the cap space, a winning tradition, and both - more or less - grew up in Ann Arbor). It sounds like this might be something that actually ends up happening...and which could have been in the works for some time?

Because me for being an addict, LINES!

CAPGEEK.COM CAP CALCULATOR ROSTER

My Custom Lineup

FORWARDS

Zach Parise ($7.000m) / Pavel Datsyuk ($6.700m) / Johan Franzen ($3.955m)

Gustav Nyquist ($0.875m) / Henrik Zetterberg ($6.083m) / Valtteri Filppula ($3.000m)

Justin Abdelkader ($1.300m) / Darren Helm ($1.400m) / Power Forward? ($2.000m)

Power Forward? ($2.000m) / Cory Emmerton ($0.533m) / Power Forward? ($2.000m)

DEFENSEMEN

Nicklas Lidstrom ($5.000m) / Ryan Suter ($7.000m)

Niklas Kronwall ($4.750m) / Ian White ($2.875m)

Brendan Smith ($0.875m) / Jonathan Ericsson ($3.250m)

GOALTENDERS

Jimmy Howard ($2.250m)

Backup Goalie? ($1.000m)

------

CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)

(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)

SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $63,846,212; BONUSES: $37,500

CAP SPACE (20-man roster): $453,788

Explanation:

If we're able to sign Parise and Suter, the top six is set (Parise replaces Bertuzzi on the first line, Nyquist replaces Hudler on the second line); and - assuming Lidstrom resigns - the defensive pairings are set (Suter replaces Stuart, Smith replaces Quincey). But the bottom six isn't yet in order.

I like Helm as our third line center. He's one of the best defensive centers in the game. Let's resign him (an RFA) to about a 0.5mil raise. I like Emmerton as our fourth line center. He's sort of like a young Helm in many ways. Let's keep him there. And I like Abdelkader as a bottom six winger. He's big, strong, and great defensively (though he could be more physical). Let's resign him (an RFA) to about a 0.5 mil raise. But now we've got some issues.

I DO NOT like Cleary, Bertuzzi, Eaves, Miller or Mursak as bottom-six wingers. I want three new, big, strong, physical, defensively sound power forwards to go along with Abdelkader as our bottom-six wingers. If we move the aforementioned players, we'll have over 6mil to spend on these three power forwards. Should be well more than enough to get us what we want. It'll be harder to move some than others, but I do think that all of the aforementioned players are movable (worst case scenario, send them and their cap-hits through waivers en route to gr).

THAT's how we catch up to the rest of the league.

[Z and D for the C 712]

Whats happening to Cleary and Bertuzzi?

Edited May 24, 2012 by Z and D for the C

[Doc Holliday 1,888]

I call BS. Sounds way too good to be true.

[sibiriak 84]

So the only source the article has is an unnamed official, who heard it at some unknown event. The rest is pure speculation.

I don't believe that a "package deal" like that is feasible in the today's NHL. Money will talk. There are plenty other playoff-caliber teams, and many of them can throw a lot of money at ONE of them, but few can afford to make top-dollar offers for BOTH. I doubt that the Wings can pay 16-18mil. or more long-term for the pair, because that's what it's gonna take, without severely limiting the depth of the team.

Edited May 24, 2012 by sibiriak

[VM1138 1,921]

So the only source the article has is an unnamed official, who heard it at some unknown event. The rest is pure speculation.

I don't believe that a "package deal" like that is feasible in the today's NHL. Money will talk. There are plenty other playoff-caliber teams, and many of them can throw a lot of money at ONE of them, but few can afford to make top-dollar offers for BOTH. I doubt that the Wings can pay 16-18mil. or more long-term for the pair, because that's what it's gonna take, without severely limiting the depth of the team.

Actually, a lot of realistic cap calculations have included both. The Wings could do it and it would greatly help solve two of our biggest problems for years to come. If it's an option, it's a no-brainer to pull the trigger.

And the source was several officials, was it not? Not just one. Interesting. I'm getting my hopes up, but if they really want to play together, and it's between both in Detroit or them getting split up for a few million more, I'm betting they take the Wings.

The problem is: can any other contender offer to sign both?

Edited May 24, 2012 by VM1138

[sibiriak 84]

Actually, a lot of realistic cap calculations have included both. The Wings could do it and it would greatly help solve two of our biggest problems for years to come. If it's an option, it's a no-brainer to pull the trigger.

And the source was several officials, was it not? Not just one. Interesting. I'm getting my hopes up, but if they really want to play together, and it's between both in Detroit or them getting split up for a few million more, I'm betting they take the Wings.

The problem is: can any other contender offer to sign both?

Your last sentence asks the right question. That was my point. In order to sign in Detroit, they would EACH have to take less than other Cup-pursuing teams would offer them SEPARATELY. I don't see that happening. Do you really think that Parise will be making less than Kovalchuk? Or for much shorter term? More likely, he'll be making more.

Realistically, the only way to sign both would be if Lidstrom retires and a couple of other larger contracts (e.g. Bertuzzi) are gotten rid of and replaced with min.salary players. And then the Wings will be against the cap, and where will the future raises for the RFAs come from then?

[SaCkaveli20 275]

LoL could you imagine if they both took 5 mill a year..

OBVIOUSLY that won't be the case...but if you think fans of other teams hate us now..omg

[Doc Holliday 1,888]

Your last sentence asks the right question. That was my point. In order to sign in Detroit, they would EACH have to take less than other Cup-pursuing teams would offer them SEPARATELY. I don't see that happening. Do you really think that Parise will be making less than Kovalchuk? Or for much shorter term? More likely, he'll be making more.

Realistically, the only way to sign both would be if Lidstrom retires and a couple of other larger contracts (e.g. Bertuzzi) are gotten rid of and replaced with min.salary players. And then the Wings will be against the cap, and where will the future raises for the RFAs come from then?

Parise and Suter could both make 7 million with us still below the cap ceiling.

[sibiriak 84]

Parise and Suter could both make 7 million with us still below the cap ceiling.

Perhaps, but there's no way they will both accept such a discount, unless it's for one year only, like Selanne and Kariya once did. But put yourself in their shoes, is Detroit the best place for their one shot at a Cup together? Because at that price (14 mil for both) they can have their pick of ANY NHL team they want. And right now Detroit doesn't look like the team most poised to win the Cup next year.

And to sign them both long-term, the price tag will START at 20 mil.

Edited May 24, 2012 by sibiriak

[Doc Holliday 1,888]

Perhaps, but there's no way they will both accept such a discount, unless it's for one year only, like Selanne and Kariya once did. But put yourself in their shoes, is Detroit the best place for their one shot at a Cup together? Because at that price (14 mil for both) they can have their pick of ANY NHL team they want. And right now Detroit doesn't look like the team most poised to win the Cup next year.

And to sign them both long-term, the price tag will START at 20 mil.

20 mil what? A year?

And 7 million isn't such a discount. They are perhaps leaving a few million off the table to play together and for a team with a history of winning and a group of guys who know what it takes to win. You don't get that from many other clubs.

[sibiriak 84]

20 mil what? A year?

Yes, a year. Comparables for a long term contract: Kovalchuk and Weber (who is on a short term arbitration award IIRC) 10+7.5(short term, lowball). With salaries expected to rise every year, a LT contracts of parise and Suter will at least 10% higher than the Kovy+Weber. That is 19+ mil.

And 7 million isn't such a discount. They are perhaps leaving a few million off the table to play together and for a team with a history of winning and a group of guys who know what it takes to win. You don't get that from many other clubs.

How about the Bruins? The Rangers? The Devils? The Kings? The Blues? The Preds? The Flyers even? Those all look like contenders to me.

[kipwinger 8,518]

Perhaps, but there's no way they will both accept such a discount, unless it's for one year only, like Selanne and Kariya once did. But put yourself in their shoes, is Detroit the best place for their one shot at a Cup together? Because at that price (14 mil for both) they can have their pick of ANY NHL team they want. And right now Detroit doesn't look like the team most poised to win the Cup next year.

And to sign them both long-term, the price tag will START at 20 mil.

Lolz.

[Seraph 240]

I feel like this was written as porn for Red Wings fans. I'm not getting too excited about it. If Jimmy Howard is their former team mate doesn't even have their phone numbers, why would they be that much closer and vying to play for the same team? It just seems like the writer put together a string of convenient coincidences and a few unspecified quotes.

I'd love you to prove me wrong though.

[sureWhyNot 19]

Your last sentence asks the right question. That was my point. In order to sign in Detroit, they would EACH have to take less than other Cup-pursuing teams would offer them SEPARATELY. I don't see that happening. Do you really think that Parise will be making less than Kovalchuk? Or for much shorter term? More likely, he'll be making more.

Realistically, the only way to sign both would be if Lidstrom retires and a couple of other larger contracts (e.g. Bertuzzi) are gotten rid of and replaced with min.salary players. And then the Wings will be against the cap, and where will the future raises for the RFAs come from then?

Please explain to me Bertuzzi's "large" contract.

[Hockey13Playa 240]

And to sign them both long-term, the price tag will START at 20 mil.

L-O-L!

If Detroit could somehow make this happen we sign both Parise and Suter I would be so happy. The last time I was extremely pleased about what the wings did in the offseason was the 2001-2002 year. Boy oh boy was that a great summer full of great signings! I will be so pumped for next season if they both end up wearing red and white.

[GMRwings1983 8,793]

I haven't been this excited since we signed the great Derian Hatcher.

[Doc Holliday 1,888]

Yes, a year. Comparables for a long term contract: Kovalchuk and Weber (who is on a short term arbitration award IIRC) 10+7.5(short term, lowball). With salaries expected to rise every year, a LT contracts of parise and Suter will at least 10% higher than the Kovy+Weber. That is 19+ mil.

That is crap. Neither of them will be offered 10 million a year. They are great players but they aren't at the same level as the Crosbys and Stamkos's of the league.

How about the Bruins? The Rangers? The Devils? The Kings? The Blues? The Preds? The Flyers even? Those all look like contenders to me.

Bruins don't have the cap space. Rangers have enough high priced contracts as it is. The Devils have crazy money troubles. The Kings will likely not have the cap space in order to sign their players. The Blues will have space but a lot of contracts to sign. The Predators are a gigantic question mark considering they put all their eggs into one basket and failed miserably. The Flyers have no cap space to sign anyone.

They may be "contenders", but the Red Wings have the best shot out of all of them. You are getting too pessimistic about it.

[rrasco 1,312]

Bruins don't have the cap space. Rangers have enough high priced contracts as it is. The Devils have crazy money troubles. The Kings will likely not have the cap space in order to sign their players. The Blues will have space but a lot of contracts to sign. The Predators are a gigantic question mark considering they put all their eggs into one basket and failed miserably. The Flyers have no cap space to sign anyone.

They may be "contenders", but the Red Wings have the best shot out of all of them. You are getting too pessimistic about it.

This. I don't know why people keep insisting the Wings are doomed. Not to mention, how many players make $10mil a year? Are Suter and Parise on par with those players? Starting price will not be $20mil, guaranteed.

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20120524/SPORTS0103/205240354/1128/rss16

It sounds like Parise and Suter really are a package deal. It sounds like Detroit really is one of the very few teams that interests them (has the cap space, a winning tradition, and both - more or less - grew up in Ann Arbor). It sounds like this might be something that actually ends up happening...and which could have been in the works for some time?

<snip>

Explanation:

If we're able to sign Parise and Suter, the top six is set (Parise replaces Bertuzzi on the first line, Nyquist replaces Hudler on the second line); and - assuming Lidstrom resigns - the defensive pairings are set (Suter replaces Stuart, Smith replaces Quincey). But the bottom six isn't yet in order.

I like Helm as our third line center. He's one of the best defensive centers in the game. Let's resign him (an RFA) to about a 0.5mil raise. I like Emmerton as our fourth line center. He's sort of like a young Helm in many ways. Let's keep him there. And I like Abdelkader as a bottom six winger. He's big, strong, and great defensively (though he could be more physical). Let's resign him (an RFA) to about a 0.5 mil raise. But now we've got some issues.

I DO NOT like Cleary, Bertuzzi, Eaves, Miller or Mursak as bottom-six wingers. I want three new, big, strong, physical, defensively sound power forwards to go along with Abdelkader as our bottom-six wingers. If we move the aforementioned players, we'll have over 6mil to spend on these three power forwards. Should be well more than enough to get us what we want. It'll be harder to move some than others, but I do think that all of the aforementioned players are movable (worst case scenario, send them and their cap-hits through waivers en route to gr).

THAT's how we catch up to the rest of the league.

I'm guessing you're using the term power forward very loosely here. Because the Wings would never be able to get three true power forwards for 6 mill a year. That would get maybe one.

But they could potentially get some tough, big grinders who are sound defensively and may score a few goals.

Either way, both Bert and Cleary are under contract, so I don't think you'll get your wish there.

[joesuffP 1,746]

Isn't it possible they sign them to front loaded life time contracts

[Guest blueadams]

But they could potentially get some tough, big grinders who are sound defensively and may score a few goals.

That is exactly what I meant by power forward.

Neither Bert or Cleary has a NTC. Bert's salary is actually a bargain given his point totals. He'd be easy to move. Cleary'd be the tough one. Bad year. Not even close to living up to his 2.8 mil contract. Coming off surgery. Still though...not far removed from some impressive seasons. Still relatively young. Still has the "he'll be great again when he's healed" argument on his side. Lot of experience on a good team. Good leader. I could see a crappy young team lacking in locker-room guys and attendance numbers being willing to take on his contract for one season.

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

That is exactly what I meant by power forward.

Neither Bert or Cleary has a NTC. Bert's salary is actually a bargain given his point totals. He'd be easy to move. Cleary'd be the tough one. Bad year. Not even close to living up to his 2.8 mil contract. Coming off surgery. Still though...not far removed from some impressive seasons. Still relatively young. Still has the "he'll be great again when he's healed" argument on his side. Lot of experience on a good team. Good leader. I could see a crappy young team lacking in locker-room guys and attendance numbers being willing to take on his contract for one season.

I typically think of a power forward as a top two line guy, someone like Lucic. But I figured that's what you meant.

Bert doesn't have a NTC, but the Wings just re-signed him in February. Not saying it couldn't happen but Holland usually doesn't get rid of a player that soon after offering him another contract.

[Guest blueadams]

I typically think of a power forward as a top two line guy, someone like Lucic. But I figured that's what you meant.

Bert doesn't have a NTC, but the Wings just re-signed him in February. Not saying it couldn't happen but Holland usually doesn't get rid of a player that soon after offering him another contract.

there's zero percent of it actually happening. doesn't mean it's not what should happen.

[DangleDangleBeach 16]

maybe the oakland athletics will take cleary off our hands?

[rrasco 1,312]

Isn't it possible they sign them to front loaded life time contracts

It is possible, since they would more than likely be signed before the next CBA dismantles the ability for GMs to structure contracts in that manner.