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Excellent 'Parise and Suter to Detroit' article


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#81 centcougar07

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Posted 27 May 2012 - 03:18 AM

Agreed. Our near future is certain... elite talent willing to give it their all to retain their status as 'top-dog' after two 2nd round and one 1st round exit. Long-term future, lots of you seem to doubt our organization. We have been going strong for 20 years now, and yes every good thing comes to an end, but why would you think now? There's no real concrete evidence IMO. We went from 02 to 08 with nothing, and I bet the same crap was being spewed about Detroit's dynasty 'about to fall' then!


First of all I think the long-term outlook of a team always matters to potential FA's. Second, there is reason to think it might be now.

1. The numbers: The numbers of all our 'core' or 'star' players are and have been falling in past years save for Filpulla.
2. IMO, there are no prospects with real star potential to replace these guys that are getting older and watching their production fall. I think Smith is the closest thing to that and even he could be a bust. And even if he makes something of himself, is it going to be Nik Lidstrom something? Not likely.
3. It all starts and stops with Lidstrom for me. I think his retirement (be it this year or the next) is going to be the beginning of the end of our twenty year run. It always seems to me that when Nik goes, we go. He's the leader of this team without question and it's going to be hard to compensate for the loss of him.

Edited by centcougar07, 27 May 2012 - 03:23 AM.


#82 number9

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Posted 27 May 2012 - 04:23 PM

First of all I think the long-term outlook of a team always matters to potential FA's. Second, there is reason to think it might be now.

1. The numbers: The numbers of all our 'core' or 'star' players are and have been falling in past years save for Filpulla.
2. IMO, there are no prospects with real star potential to replace these guys that are getting older and watching their production fall. I think Smith is the closest thing to that and even he could be a bust. And even if he makes something of himself, is it going to be Nik Lidstrom something? Not likely.
3. It all starts and stops with Lidstrom for me. I think his retirement (be it this year or the next) is going to be the beginning of the end of our twenty year run. It always seems to me that when Nik goes, we go. He's the leader of this team without question and it's going to be hard to compensate for the loss of him.


1. The numbers: The numbers of all our 'core' or 'star' players (including Yzerman/Shanahan/Chelios/Hull/Hasek/ect.) are and have been falling in past years save for Zetterberg.
2. IMO, there are no prospects with real star potential to replace these guys that are getting older and watching their production fall. I think Datsyuk is the closest thing to that and even he could be a bust. And even if he makes something of himself, is it going to be Sergei Fedorov something? Not likely.
3. It all starts and stops with Yzerman for me. I think his retirement (be it this year or the next) is going to be the beginning of the end of our ten year run. It always seems to me that when Stevie goes, we go. He's the leader of this team without question and it's going to be hard to compensate for the loss of him.

#83 Manny>Ozzie(by a long shot)

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Posted 27 May 2012 - 05:07 PM

1. The numbers: The numbers of all our 'core' or 'star' players (including Yzerman/Shanahan/Chelios/Hull/Hasek/ect.) are and have been falling in past years save for Zetterberg.
2. IMO, there are no prospects with real star potential to replace these guys that are getting older and watching their production fall. I think Datsyuk is the closest thing to that and even he could be a bust. And even if he makes something of himself, is it going to be Sergei Fedorov something? Not likely.
3. It all starts and stops with Yzerman for me. I think his retirement (be it this year or the next) is going to be the beginning of the end of our ten year run. It always seems to me that when Stevie goes, we go. He's the leader of this team without question and it's going to be hard to compensate for the loss of him.


I love this. Bravo.
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#84 centcougar07

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Posted 28 May 2012 - 03:30 AM

1. The numbers: The numbers of all our 'core' or 'star' players (including Yzerman/Shanahan/Chelios/Hull/Hasek/ect.) are and have been falling in past years save for Zetterberg.
2. IMO, there are no prospects with real star potential to replace these guys that are getting older and watching their production fall. I think Datsyuk is the closest thing to that and even he could be a bust. And even if he makes something of himself, is it going to be Sergei Fedorov something? Not likely.
3. It all starts and stops with Yzerman for me. I think his retirement (be it this year or the next) is going to be the beginning of the end of our ten year run. It always seems to me that when Stevie goes, we go. He's the leader of this team without question and it's going to be hard to compensate for the loss of him.


Sad.

#85 MabusIncarnate

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Posted 28 May 2012 - 04:08 AM

1. The numbers: The numbers of all our 'core' or 'star' players (including Yzerman/Shanahan/Chelios/Hull/Hasek/ect.) are and have been falling in past years save for Zetterberg.
2. IMO, there are no prospects with real star potential to replace these guys that are getting older and watching their production fall. I think Datsyuk is the closest thing to that and even he could be a bust. And even if he makes something of himself, is it going to be Sergei Fedorov something? Not likely.
3. It all starts and stops with Yzerman for me. I think his retirement (be it this year or the next) is going to be the beginning of the end of our ten year run. It always seems to me that when Stevie goes, we go. He's the leader of this team without question and it's going to be hard to compensate for the loss of him.


:thumbup:

Great post and an even better point.

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#86 Dabura

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Posted 28 May 2012 - 06:59 AM

My thoughts on all of this seem to change every three days now. Having said that, I don't see us signing both Suter and Parise. I think we'll land the former, while the latter will opt for, say, Carolina. And, honestly, I'd be fine with that. Do we really want to invest 14+ in two players this summer? I mean, sure, we'd have bragging rights. We could say, "Hah! We got the top two names in this pool!" But I think I'd rather save some $$$ for next summer.

Edited by Dabura, 28 May 2012 - 07:02 AM.

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#87 Doc Holliday

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Posted 28 May 2012 - 11:00 AM

Sad.


The only thing sad is your consistent attempt to bring out the doom and gloom about this team on this board.

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#88 Z Winged Dangler

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Posted 28 May 2012 - 01:03 PM

First of all I think the long-term outlook of a team always matters to potential FA's. Second, there is reason to think it might be now.

1. The numbers: The numbers of all our 'core' or 'star' players are and have been falling in past years save for Filpulla.
2. IMO, there are no prospects with real star potential to replace these guys that are getting older and watching their production fall. I think Smith is the closest thing to that and even he could be a bust. And even if he makes something of himself, is it going to be Nik Lidstrom something? Not likely.
3. It all starts and stops with Lidstrom for me. I think his retirement (be it this year or the next) is going to be the beginning of the end of our twenty year run. It always seems to me that when Nik goes, we go. He's the leader of this team without question and it's going to be hard to compensate for the loss of him.

How many NHL players over the years have been allowed in the same sentence as Nick or Stevie? Bobby Orr and Doug Harvey for Nick....Gretzky, Francis, Richard, Messier, Lemieux...that's the company Stevie Y holds. We won a cup the year after he retired. The Wings always find a way to re-tool...sign a big name player that wants to win cause that's what the Wings do. Big name players always want to come to the Wings and as long as they wear the Winged Wheel, they have a chance to win.

Here's a new tag line for you to use. "When Lids retires, at least no other team in the league has a Lids left on their roster, because there is only 1 of him just like there was only 1 Bobby Orr"

Time marches on bud. Dats and Z didn't fall out of Yzerman and Federov's underpants, the Wings found them. Nyquist and Smith WILL be regular producing roster players next year and for the next pile of years to come cause they both proved they are "NHL caliber" as they've actually played NHL games. Coyle and Granlund haven't played s*** in the NHL yet and while they both look like elite prospects, they have to prove it on the real stage before anyone here jerks off to the greatness in Minnesota whom should probably make the playoffs any year now with their top talent.

Anyways, if Suter and Parise sign here, or if Kenny signs that other kid that doesn't like ducks, or DeKeyser, the Wings will be looking good again regardless. and Smith had a higher PPG average than any of our dmen in his stint even over Lids and Kronner. That is a "top end prospect" if you ask me.

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#89 LeftWinger

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Posted 28 May 2012 - 02:54 PM

My thoughts on all of this seem to change every three days now. Having said that, I don't see us signing both Suter and Parise. I think we'll land the former, while the latter will opt for, say, Carolina. And, honestly, I'd be fine with that. Do we really want to invest 14+ in two players this summer? I mean, sure, we'd have bragging rights. We could say, "Hah! We got the top two names in this pool!" But I think I'd rather save some $$$ for next summer.

I tend to agree, but what if there isn't any money Cap-wise for next summer? That being mentioned, I got a strange feeling that with the uncertainty of the CBA, Holland just may offer a few ONE year deals to any or all UFA's he tries to sign, just in case the Cap decreases with the new CBA. I know most experts agree and have said they believe the cap will increase and that is fine, but would Holland risk signing a few more LONG term deals and risk having to buy out players before the season starts? I hope and hope that the Cap does indeed go up and until they are signed by someone else I am holding out for BOTH Suter and Parise...whether they are one year deals or ten year deals. But if neither happen due to them not liking the offer or not wanting to come to Detroit for some reason, I know Holland will find the next best options...I just hope it's not re-signing only players from last season.

Edited by LeftWinger, 28 May 2012 - 03:12 PM.

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#90 Dimaline312000

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Posted 28 May 2012 - 03:08 PM

It would be great if it really does happen so I'll cross my fingers but I won't hold my breath. Go Wings!!

#91 LeftWinger

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Posted 28 May 2012 - 03:10 PM

How many NHL players over the years have been allowed in the same sentence as Nick or Stevie? Bobby Orr and Doug Harvey for Nick....Gretzky, Francis, Richard, Messier, Lemieux...that's the company Stevie Y holds. We won a cup the year after he retired. The Wings always find a way to re-tool...sign a big name player that wants to win cause that's what the Wings do. Big name players always want to come to the Wings and as long as they wear the Winged Wheel, they have a chance to win.

Here's a new tag line for you to use. "When Lids retires, at least no other team in the league has a Lids left on their roster, because there is only 1 of him just like there was only 1 Bobby Orr"

Time marches on bud. Dats and Z didn't fall out of Yzerman and Federov's underpants, the Wings found them. Nyquist and Smith WILL be regular producing roster players next year and for the next pile of years to come cause they both proved they are "NHL caliber" as they've actually played NHL games. Coyle and Granlund haven't played s*** in the NHL yet and while they both look like elite prospects, they have to prove it on the real stage before anyone here jerks off to the greatness in Minnesota whom should probably make the playoffs any year now with their top talent.

Anyways, if Suter and Parise sign here, or if Kenny signs that other kid that doesn't like ducks, or DeKeyser, the Wings will be looking good again regardless. and Smith had a higher PPG average than any of our dmen in his stint even over Lids and Kronner. That is a "top end prospect" if you ask me.

Well said! :clap:

I really hope that Holland does sign Dekeyser (who is the anti-duck kid?) and I REALLY hope Holland sends an offer to Jeremy Welsh. In 2-3 years, the prospect of having Smith/Dekeyser on D and Sheahan/Welsh up front really excites me! Add to that the experience that Nyquist and Jarnkrok may have from being in Detroit for those 2-3 years, I believe the future looks pretty bright sans Lidstrom.

I don't like that already I see Tatar, Pulkkinen and Jurco falling down the prospect list a bit. I just hope maybe its because of a couple of players getting hot and not those guys getting cold. Speaking of cold, poor McCollum, is he just not what the Wings thought or is this just a classic example of someone who was in the minors WAY too long and he is past overripened?

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#92 LeftWinger

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Posted 28 May 2012 - 03:32 PM

Hey, nevermind, I figure out the anti-duck kid is Schultz. Just read the DETNEWS article about him being on the Wings list of players they may be interested in... I just love the fact that Holland is looking and drafting players from the NCAA, it really speaks volumes about how far The United States has come in developing young players. :clap:

Now, if Holland were to sign Schultz, Dekeyser, Welsh (for GR) along with Parise and Suter (for the big club) I have NO DOUBT that this organization will be competitive if not REAL contenders for years and years to come! Even if for some reason Parise and Suter do not come here, our prospects would be at or near the top of the NHL for sure!

I know I tend to go a little hard on Holland a lot, but once I step back, look around and realize a few things, I am really excited about things! Of course I cannot say enough how much I want Holland to get those three college kids under contract!

Edited by LeftWinger, 28 May 2012 - 03:32 PM.

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#93 number9

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Posted 28 May 2012 - 06:14 PM

Well said! :clap:

I really hope that Holland does sign Dekeyser (who is the anti-duck kid?) and I REALLY hope Holland sends an offer to Jeremy Welsh. In 2-3 years, the prospect of having Smith/Dekeyser on D and Sheahan/Welsh up front really excites me! Add to that the experience that Nyquist and Jarnkrok may have from being in Detroit for those 2-3 years, I believe the future looks pretty bright sans Lidstrom.

I don't like that already I see Tatar, Pulkkinen and Jurco falling down the prospect list a bit. I just hope maybe its because of a couple of players getting hot and not those guys getting cold. Speaking of cold, poor McCollum, is he just not what the Wings thought or is this just a classic example of someone who was in the minors WAY too long and he is past overripened?


Not what we thought, It happens. Looked great in the OHL but has never been able to perform in the AHL. Just goes to show that being a 1st round pick doesn't mean anything.

#94 Z Winged Dangler

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Posted 29 May 2012 - 07:43 AM

Hey, nevermind, I figure out the anti-duck kid is Schultz. Just read the DETNEWS article about him being on the Wings list of players they may be interested in... I just love the fact that Holland is looking and drafting players from the NCAA, it really speaks volumes about how far The United States has come in developing young players. :clap:

Now, if Holland were to sign Schultz, Dekeyser, Welsh (for GR) along with Parise and Suter (for the big club) I have NO DOUBT that this organization will be competitive if not REAL contenders for years and years to come! Even if for some reason Parise and Suter do not come here, our prospects would be at or near the top of the NHL for sure!

I know I tend to go a little hard on Holland a lot, but once I step back, look around and realize a few things, I am really excited about things! Of course I cannot say enough how much I want Holland to get those three college kids under contract!

lol ya, i couldn't remember his name off the top of my head while i was posting. The Wings have so much potential with the cap space to re-tool (not rebuild) this summer. kenny needs to not sign Homer or Hudler and get in on the action big with these young blue chippers.

As for Jurco, i was super excited to see him light it up in the memorial cup, but it sorta seemed like he got dick for ice time and didn't get Coyle's luxury of playing with a guy like Huberdeau. we'll see how he plays in GR when he gets there. Iron Hook is gonna be good, we know this. and Nyquist is the s***. i don't care what anyone says, he had all his points in his first 9-10 games playing in the top 6 and then Franzenfloat came back and produced less points with Gus' ice time and Gus got tossed randomly on the 4th line with Homer and Emmerton and his points vanished along with quality linemates and ice time, while still having flashes of brilliance with linemates that have NO finish. Smith is an upgrade over Stuart who's bags were packed at the trade deadline...best of luck to him elsewhere. Smith will be Kronwall's equal in short order and that makes me very happy. If we get those other guys you mentioned from my other post and somehow add Parise/Suter, the Wings dynasty will start another leg and will probably win 4 more cups in the next 11 years.

I will remain positive until Kenny gives me reasons not to be.

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#95 2probert4

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Posted 29 May 2012 - 09:30 AM

Yes, a year. Comparables for a long term contract: Kovalchuk and Weber (who is on a short term arbitration award IIRC) 10+7.5(short term, lowball). With salaries expected to rise every year, a LT contracts of parise and Suter will at least 10% higher than the Kovy+Weber. That is 19+ mil.

How about the Bruins? The Rangers? The Devils? The Kings? The Blues? The Preds? The Flyers even? Those all look like contenders to me.


Preds aren't contenders... They weren't this year and with 15 free agents (UFA and RFA combined) plus with limited finances, uhh nope. World Class goalie obviously....

#96 PredsFanTheBayouState

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Posted 29 May 2012 - 04:31 PM

Preds aren't contenders... They weren't this year and with 15 free agents (UFA and RFA combined) plus with limited finances, uhh nope. World Class goalie obviously....



this something only fans that hate the preds would say,i think the preds were contenders for the stanley cup this year,but fell short,but that doesn't mean that they won't be contenders next season




#97 blueadams

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Posted 29 May 2012 - 05:36 PM

I'm starting to think that Parise + Suter to Detroit just isn't going to happen...because it's not even going to be possible to get both (which sort of leads me to believe all we might add is...puke...semin).



CAPGEEK.COM USER GENERATED ROSTER
My Custom Lineup
FORWARDS
Zach Parise ($7.000m) / Pavel Datsyuk ($6.700m) / Johan Franzen ($3.955m)
Gustav Nyquist ($0.875m) / Henrik Zetterberg ($6.083m) / Valtteri Filppula ($3.000m)
Danny Cleary ($2.800m) / Darren Helm ($1.000m) / Todd Bertuzzi ($2.075m)
Drew Miller ($0.838m) / Justin Abdelkader ($0.866m) / Patrick Eaves ($1.200m)
Cory Emmerton ($0.533m) / Jan Mursak ($0.550m) /
DEFENSEMEN
Nicklas Lidstrom ($6.200m) / Jonathan Ericsson ($3.250m)
Niklas Kronwall ($4.750m) / Ian White ($2.875m)
Brendan Smith ($0.875m) / Kyle Quincey ($3.250m)
Jakub Kindl ($0.883m) /
GOALTENDERS
Jimmy Howard ($2.250m)
Ty Conklin ($0.750m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $62,558,295; BONUSES: $37,500
CAP SPACE (23-man roster): $1,741,705



*I know that Conklin's not going to be back, but it sounds like we're not comfortable with JMac as the backup, and I'm guessing that whoever we bring in to be the backup will make about as much as Conks did this season.



There's only 1.7 mil in space after giving Parise 7 mil a season (which might not be enough). We'd need to clear up at least an additional 5 mil to get Suter. How would we do that?

*Keep in mind, I gave Helm, Abby and Quincey their minimum RFA raises. Helm and Abby will probably get more. Helm might get a good deal more.

So, how do we clear an additional 5 mil?

1) The cap could raise 5 mil or more. That could happen.

2) Lidstrom could retire. That could happen.

3) Lidstrom could accept 5 mil less than he got last season. That's NOT going to happen.

4) Holland could perform some combination of not resigning Quincey (NOT going to happen after giving up a 1st rd pick for him) and trading Cleary (NOT going to happen, for stupid reasons) or Bertuzzi (NOT going to happen right after resigning him).

...that's about it. Only two scenarios are really possible.

#98 PredsFanTheBayouState

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Posted 29 May 2012 - 05:45 PM

Suter talks could heat up this week:


http://blogs.tenness...t-up-this-week/



#99 LeftWinger

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Posted 29 May 2012 - 06:05 PM

Suter talks could heat up this week:


http://blogs.tenness...t-up-this-week/

So we'll know soon if he will become a UFA or re-sign...

The Preds have to ask themselves, which D-man do we want to keep, Suter or Weber. I cannot see them investing $7m+ into two defensemen EACH. Plus already having Rinne at $7M. I am not saying it won't happen, it just might. But right now, they only have 8 forwards, 3 D and 1 G signed. Can only guess at the Cap, so going with the current $64.3M they have $32M to sign 5 fwds, 4 D and 1 G. If they gave Suter/Weber $15M of that I think that would leave a lot of $500,000 - $1.5M players left to fill their team. Like I said, it could happen. Hey, at least they'd have two of the premiere defensemen and an real good goalie locked up for a long time! I guess it could happen...

of course they'd be in a world of hurt after next season, but that is what they pay the GM te big bucks to do, right? I sure wish that we'd get Suter, but if he isn't going to sign here, I'd rather him stay right where he is, so he doesn't move on to Pit or St. Louis, Chicago, etc...We're used to him in Nashville, and despite last playoff, we know how to handle them together.

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#100 pucktividi

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Posted 29 May 2012 - 06:25 PM

The Preds will let Suter go and throw some good young d-man in from out of nowhere like always





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