295 replies to this topic

[Heaten]

Kindl? Too good to be #6/#7? He has been given TONS of opportunity to take a spot, year after year, he has never been able to secure one, and now his #7 seems to be in jeopardy.... If Holland signs all three Quincey/Suter/Schultz....Kindl is out...I hope it's Quincey that is out, but even then, Kindl is still #7....

"Year after year"? That's a head-scratcher considering Kindl has only played one full season in the NHL.

Now I am totally convinced you have no clue what you are talking about. Obviously you didn't watch him since you think he's played "year after year" in the NHL, but he had a month stretch during injuries where he was an absolute beast. Not bad for his first full season in the NHL.

Needless to say, the kid is barely 25 and has played well. He looks better than an older Ericsson his full rookie season, and is younger. I'm really surprised how people want to ditch Kindl, who has been solid, and automatically replace him with a 21 year old with entitlement issues who never sniffed a day in the NHL and could be the biggest flop since Brunnstrom. No way Babcock coddles Justin Schultz like other coaches will be instructed to do. Your solution? "FIRE BABCOCK!!!! CODDLE THIS KID WHO HAS ATTITUDE ISSUES AND ISN'T A TEAM PLAYER NOW KENNY!!!11"

Dude, you are hilarious!

D

Edited by Heaten, 26 June 2012 - 02:24 PM.

[chances14]

It won't hurt us....right now, per capgeek, we have $39M in cap space next season...add to that Suter $8M, Parise $8M and Schultz $4M (I just averaged up) that still leaves $19M to re-up Jimmy and Smith. Jimmy will get $5M (as long as he plays like last season before injury) and Smith will get Schultz type numbers....Nyquist will get a nice raise, but nothing too huge,maybe $2M-$2.5M...so that is $9M for Howard/Smith and Nyquist at $2.5M that still leaves $7.5M...Cleary's $2.8M and Miller's $500,000 will be coming off the books, so that is now $10.8M, Emmerton will probably be gone already too so now we are at $11.3M, Ian White will be gone, now it's $13.9M....and that is to re-sign Val and bring up another defenseman...then Holland will have to address Pav the following year...

If I were Holland, I would be looking to extend Pav SOON! #1. The CBA may change the rules on these longer contracts, so it would be best to get Pav extended NOW so the new rules won't effect the front loading process. #2. Pav turns 35 before his current contract is up...if he signs a contract while he is 35 or older, if he retires the Wings are stuck with the cap hit until the contract is up...if he signs now, or before 35, he could retire half way thru if he had to and the cap hit would retire with him...

I say extend Pav right now for, he'll only play, what, at most, 5 years after his current one? Give him a 5 year extension NOW so just in case he cannot complete the contract do to health or whatever, he can retire and the cap comes off....

i don't think pavs will want a 5 year extension though. if the rumors about him wanting to play in russia before he retires are true, the max years i could see pavs wanting is 3

[LeftWinger]

Quincey is a better skating, less physical (although Quincey is still physical) Stuart, getting used to a new team and playing from his wrong side (which he was not used to. I don't understand all the hate from people here


Unless you're Ilitch, the cap hit is the only # that matters



Kindl doesn't even come close to being as good a d-man as Quincey

I understand, and I don't hate Quincey, but if Holland gets Suter/Schultz and guarantees Schultz a spot everyday, that will make Quincey/Kindl/Smith the #6/#7/#8 guys...so if you ditched Kindl that will put Quincey and Smith rotating the #6 spot and you will have on lots of nights, a $3M player sitting in the press box healthy... I don't think Holland would like that...Sort of like when they got Dom, even though Osgood was a better goalie than Manny, they still dropped Ozzie because they didn't want to pay him $3M to be a back up...its just business.

[hockey23]

Unless you're Ilitch, the cap hit is the only # that matters

I guess I kind of misunderstood the post. I thought he was saying if the Wings give Schultz $3.8M then they'll have to give Smith and Nyquist the same, but you're absolutely correct

[DangleDangleBeach]

$2M of Schultz's $3.8M cap hit is pretty much impossible for him to actually earn. He'd have to win trophies like the Norris, Calder, and Conn Smythe to get that money. Essentially his contract would pay him a salary of either $875k or $925k (not sure which one he qualifies for) plus a possible $850k in bonuses that he has a decent chance of earning. So even though his cap hit will say $3.8M it's really like a $1.5M contract for Smith or Nyquist.

this

[Rick D]

"Year after year"? That's a head-scratcher considering Kindl has only played one full season in the NHL.

Now I am totally convinced you have no clue what you are talking about. Obviously you didn't watch him since you think he's played "year after year" in the NHL, but he had a month stretch during injuries where he was an absolute beast. Not bad for his first full season in the NHL.

D

Wasnt this last season the 2nd season where Kindl had an oppertunity to be in the line-up, but couldnt make it??

I seem to remember him compeating with Salei the season before.

[LeftWinger]

"Year after year"? That's a head-scratcher considering Kindl has only played one full season in the NHL.

Now I am totally convinced you have no clue what you are talking about. Obviously you didn't watch him since you think he's played "year after year" in the NHL, but he had a month stretch during injuries where he was an absolute beast. Not bad for his first full season in the NHL.

Needless to say, the kid is barely 25 and has played well. He looks better than an older Ericsson his full rookie season, and is younger. I'm really surprised how people want to ditch Kindl, who has been solid, and automatically replace him with a 21 year old with entitlement issues who never sniffed a day in the NHL and could be the biggest flop since Brunnstrom. No way Babcock coddles Justin Schultz like other coaches will be instructed to do. Your solution? "FIRE BABCOCK!!!! CODDLE THIS KID WHO HAS ATTITUDE ISSUES AND ISN'T A TEAM PLAYER NOW KENNY!!!11"

Dude, you are hilarious!

D

Uh....Kindl played in 55 games last season and 48 games the prior season. Last year was not his first full season in the NHL, so yes, I do know what I am talking about... PLUS he played THREE full seasons and some change in GR where he was less than stellar amassing a nice -58 in +/- and a whole 89 points...

Listen, I am not saying get rid of him, I am getting rid of Quincey and keeping Kindl, BUT Kindl will not make the top 6 if Holland gets both Suter/Schultz. If Holland really wants Schultz here, he has to promise him playing time, if Kindl is bumped because of it, then oh well that's the business. If for some reason Schultz farts, and he might, then he'll be put up in the box, not coddled. Then if Schultz complains and *******, trade him. Bottom line is Holland is going to give Schultz that #5/#6 spot and it will be his to lose...Kindl and Smith will rotate the #6/#7....But if Quincey signs then Kindl is out...

[DangleDangleBeach]

Opportunity, not money, will be the deciding factor in securing Schultz. The Red Wings are prepared to guarantee him a roster spot at the start of the season, something every team that pursues him will need to do.
Schultz's contract will be the same wherever he goes. He is restricted to a two-year, two-way entry-level deal with a base NHL salary of $925,000. His team must make a $3.8 million salary-cap commitment, however, due to potential bonuses, many of which are not realistically attainable

per mlive article... not sure if it was mentioned already but i thought it was interesting.

http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index.ssf/2012/06/red_wings_have_begun_their_pur.html

[LeftWinger]

i don't think pavs will want a 5 year extension though. if the rumors about him wanting to play in russia before he retires are true, the max years i could see pavs wanting is 3

That is even better...I just would like to have it done before he turns 35 to avoid that issue if he cannot fulfill the contract...

[LeftWinger]

Wasnt this last season the 2nd season where Kindl had an oppertunity to be in the line-up, but couldnt make it??

I seem to remember him compeating with Salei the season before.

Yes, exactly....He has had plenty of opportunity to crack this lineup...Ericsson only spent 3 seasons in GRR before making the lineup and Kindl wasaslo there for 3 FULL, PLUS played for Kitchner 3 seasons prior to that, he was more than ready to come to the NHL before Big E, but for some reason he couldn't crack the lineup....wonder why....

[Heaten]

Uh....Kindl played in 55 games last season and 48 games the prior season. Last year was not his first full season in the NHL, so yes, I do know what I am talking about... PLUS he played THREE full seasons and some change in GR where he was less than stellar amassing a nice -58 in +/- and a whole 89 points...

Listen, I am not saying get rid of him, I am getting rid of Quincey and keeping Kindl, BUT Kindl will not make the top 6 if Holland gets both Suter/Schultz. If Holland really wants Schultz here, he has to promise him playing time, if Kindl is bumped because of it, then oh well that's the business. If for some reason Schultz farts, and he might, then he'll be put up in the box, not coddled. Then if Schultz complains and *******, trade him. Bottom line is Holland is going to give Schultz that #5/#6 spot and it will be his to lose...Kindl and Smith will rotate the #6/#7....But if Quincey signs then Kindl is out...

Nyquist has been given chances year-after-year, too. Lol. You fail to see how Holland operates his young guys. Of course he will sent down on his former 2-way contract.... much like Smith last year. Smith should have been up full time, but Holland opted to keeping him in GR instead.

My point is the "best" guy should get the job, not given to him because the name on his back. And that is exactly what Babcock will do despite the promises Holland makes this snotty nose kid who thinks he is "entitled".

It seems Babcock and Holland bump heads and this scenario will be another situation. Schultz will need to beat Kindl/Quincy for the spot, if not, he'll be benched. Simple as that.

That said, I don't think Schultz comes here. He knows he isn't going to be "given" ice time no matter how much he stomps his feet and holds his breath like a 5 year old.

[LeftWinger]

Yes, he will be given icetime. Holland has said it, Babcock will give it and continue to give it until he loses it. He will not have to beat Kindl/Quincey for the spot, if he signs here, it will be his to lose. Snotty nose or not, if the organization guarantees him ice time, he will get it, until he f***s up enough to lose it....it may or may not happen, but he will have the spot, no matter what happens to Kindl/Quincey... It's written in black and white, it doesn't matter who YOU think deserves the spot, you are not Holland making promises....

[Heaten]

Yes, he will be given icetime. Holland has said it, Babcock will give it and continue to give it until he loses it. He will not have to beat Kindl/Quincey for the spot, if he signs here, it will be his to lose. Snotty nose or not, if the organization guarantees him ice time, he will get it, until he f***s up enough to lose it....it may or may not happen, but he will have the spot, no matter what happens to Kindl/Quincey... It's written in black and white, it doesn't matter who YOU think deserves the spot, you are not Holland making promises....

And Holland isn't Babcock who has the ultimate decision. And we all know how Babcock operates, he doesn't just "give" ice time to players.

Sure Babcock will give him a chance on a short leash, but he won't tolerate much. If he benches him and Kindl outplayes him, then the new spot now belongs to Kindl until he gets in Babcocks' dog house.

That's how it's been and how it will continue. Babcock and Holland bump heads, this will potentially be yet another situation. but I doubt Schultz comes here anyhow, so I doubt we'll need to worry about it.

But certainly you know the tried-and-true Red Wings routine, right? You think the process is going to change? Don't kid yourself.

Edited by Heaten, 26 June 2012 - 02:58 PM.

[wingsfan4795]

People here in Vancouver are going goo goo gaa gaa because twittersphere is saying that Schultz has made a decision to go to the Canucks, no surprise, after all he is from BC.

Any rumor originating from Vancouver or Toronto should be instantly discredited until it actually happens

[RusDRW]

This is the worst possible situation when a rookie enetering NHL request guarantees of any kind. Such things does not end well. Let him earn it instead of having it by default... If he requests guarantees he may sign with any other franchise.,, like Toronto or Columbus.

[Heaten]

This is the worst possible situation when a rookie enetering NHL request guarantees of any kind. Such things does not end well. Let him earn it instead of having it by default... If he requests guarantees he may sign with any other franchise.,, like Toronto or Columbus.

I'm all for Babcock giving him a "try out" for a few games. If he doesn't impress, then send him down or bench him. Let him sulk on the bench for all I care. We all know Babock won't give a $h@t.

But I agree, don't guarentee ice time, but guarentee him a "try out" for a chance to beat out the other two players (Quincey / Kindl). Holland should sign him on a 2-way contract in case he turns out to be a flop, since he likely won't crack the line-up anyhow.

If Holland does get him and he doesn't impress in his first few games, maybe Holland can trade him to a bottom feeder team that will give him ice time for decent assets in return. That would be a good move by Holland.

[LeftWinger]

And Holland isn't Babcock who has the ultimate decision. And we all know how Babcock operates, he doesn't just "give" ice time to players.

Sure Babcock will give him a chance on a short leash, but he won't tolerate much. If he benches him and Kindl outplayes him, then the new spot now belongs to Kindl until he gets in Babcocks' dog house.

That's how it's been and how it will continue. Babcock and Holland bump heads, this will potentially be yet another situation. but I doubt Schultz comes here anyhow, so I doubt we'll need to worry about it.

But certainly you know the tried-and-true Red Wings routine, right? You think the process is going to change? Don't kid yourself.

You just said right there what I have been saying all along! It's his spot to lose...so since you feel the same way, we could have avoided the bickering and useless typing... Holland will guarantee the spot, Babcock will start him and when or if he fails, someone else comes in...that I agree with....the spot is Schultz's until he loses it....if he signs here, and God I hope he does!

[LeftWinger]

I typed Justin Schultz in Google and the first four suggestions that come up:

Justin Schultz hockeydb

Justin Schultz hockey

Justin Schultz Red Wings

Justin Schultz Wisconsin

....kizmit? I hope so!

[Heaten]

You just said right there what I have been saying all along! It's his spot to lose...so since you feel the same way, we could have avoided the bickering and useless typing... Holland will guarantee the spot, Babcock will start him and when or if he fails, someone else comes in...that I agree with....the spot is Schultz's until he loses it....if he signs here, and God I hope he does!

All players will get a shot at training camp. If Kindl outplays him at camp, then I expect Schultz to be benched, sent down, or traded.

[joesuffP]

If we sign suter Schultz and Quincey that's a pretty damn good D lineup with a lot of upside... Doubt we get Schultz but I say sign Quincey... The guy would be an awesome bottom pairing and able to move up the lineup. Don't judge him on the few months he's played here. The guy is talented and young and will probably shut a lot of guys up with his play once he's settled in Detroit... He looked very nervous and hell have something to prove this uear