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Guest blueadams

Nice Khan article previewing the off-season

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http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index.ssf/2012/05/red_wings_42.html

1) Holland says there will be more change/harsher internal evaluation this off-season as opposed to others due to the sizable dissapointment. Might just be blowing smoke up our butts, but I guess we could be optimistic? Very glad to be reminded that Jim Devallano still has a big role with our team at times like this.

2) Says we will be in the market for a top-tier defenseman, regardless of what happens with Lidstrom. Suter is the #1 target, as we all know. The secondary targets are interesting to see in print:

-Jason Garrison(27, 6-2, 218, L)

-Dennis Wideman(29, 6-0, 200, R)

-Filip Kuba(35, 6-4, 225, L)

-Matt Carle(27, 6-0, 205, L)

-Barret Jackman(31, 6-0, 205, L)

3) Says we will be in the market for a goal-scoring winger. Parise is the #1 target. And again, the secondary list is of interest:

-A. Semin

-P. Parenteau(RW, 29, 6-0, 193, L)

-S. Doan

-R. Smyth

-D. Jones(RW/LW, 6-2, 210, R)

4) Says we will search for a big, physical 4th line forward. Unfortunately, no targets are listed.

5) Says we will search for a new backup goalie, due to concerns about MacDonald's back. Listed targets:

-T. Vokoun(35)

-J. Hedberg(39)

-J. Harding(27)

-S. Clemmensen(34)

-M. Biron(34)

*(T. Conklin will not be resigned, and there is no interest in D. Hasek)

6) Says we are more inclined to improve through free agency than trades, but that trade talk will heat up around the draft...and, if not signed by then, we would be interested in acquiring the negotiating rights to Suter and Parise.

7) Our own free agents. 1) Lidstrom won't be making a decision until after the organizational meetings. 2) Hasn't been decided if Homer will be offered a contract or not. 3) Sounds like we won't be bringing back Hudler. Holland hasn't talked to his agent in "weeks". He's expected to pull 4+ mil/season, and we would not be willing to offer that much. 4) Stuart's first choice is the Sharks. We might be his second choice. But we might not have the roster or cap space available to bring him back if things don't work out with the Sharks.

*****

Here's how that all looks on paper:

CAPGEEK.COM USER GENERATED ROSTER

My Custom Lineup

FORWARDS

Johan Franzen ($3.955m) / Pavel Datsyuk ($6.700m) / "Goal-Scoring Winger?" ($0.000m)

Gustav Nyquist ($0.875m) / Henrik Zetterberg ($6.083m) / Valtteri Filppula ($3.000m)

Danny Cleary ($2.800m) / Darren Helm ($1.400m) / Todd Bertuzzi ($2.075m)

"Big, Physical 4th Line Forward?" ($0.000m) / Justin Abdelkader ($1.300m) / Patrick Eaves ($1.200m)

Drew Miller ($0.838m) / Cory Emmerton ($0.533m) /

DEFENSEMEN

Niklas Kronwall ($4.750m) / "Top-Tier Defenseman?" ($0.000m)

Jonathan Ericsson ($3.250m) / Ian White ($2.875m)

Brendan Smith ($0.875m) / Jakub Kindl ($0.883m)

GOALTENDERS

Jimmy Howard ($2.250m)

"Veteran Goaltender?" ($0.000m)

------

CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)

(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)

SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $45,642,045; BONUSES: $37,500

CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $18,657,955

1) Looks like there might not be room for Holmstrom, Hudler or Mursak on the roster, if we add what we want to.

2) Looks like there might not be room for Quincey or Stuart if Lidstrom returns (unless we're willing to make Smith the 7th defenseman - doubtful).

Edited by blueadams

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To me, it looks like this might be pretty close to our front office's ideal team heading into next season (though I have no idea who the big, physical 4th line grinder could be?):

CAPGEEK.COM USER GENERATED ROSTER

My Custom Lineup

FORWARDS

Zach Parise ($7.000m) / Pavel Datsyuk ($6.700m) / Johan Franzen ($3.955m)

Gustav Nyquist ($0.875m) / Henrik Zetterberg ($6.083m) / Valtteri Filppula ($3.000m)

Danny Cleary ($2.800m) / Darren Helm ($1.400m) / Todd Bertuzzi ($2.075m)

"Big, Physical 4th Line Forward?" ($1.000m) / Justin Abdelkader ($1.300m) / Patrick Eaves ($1.200m)

Drew Miller ($0.838m) / Cory Emmerton ($0.533m) /

DEFENSEMEN

Nicklas Lidstrom ($5.000m) / Ryan Suter ($7.000m)

Niklas Kronwall ($4.750m) / Ian White ($2.875m)

Brendan Smith ($0.875m) / Jonathan Ericsson ($3.250m)

Jakub Kindl ($0.883m) /

GOALTENDERS

Jimmy Howard ($2.250m)

Tomas Vokoun ($1.000m)

------

CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)

(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)

SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $66,642,045; BONUSES: $37,500

CAP SPACE (23-man roster):- $2,342,045

*****

I like it. I still don't like the third line (because I hate Bertuzzi and Cleary in the bottom six). But I love that defensive group, I like having a solid backup goalie, and I think we're getting just what the doctor ordered on the first, second and fourth lines. That team could gel into something great next season?

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Try for Parise and Suter. It's hard to be excited about any other UFAs. Talk about a big time drop off. Yikes. Holland may have to do something he has not done much of in the last 5 years. Make a trade.

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Try for Parise and Suter. It's hard to be excited about any other UFAs. Talk about a big time drop off. Yikes. Holland may have to do something he has not done much of in the last 5 years. Make a trade.

Trading for negotiating rights always seems wasteful to me, but we don't really need more prospects or draft picks right now so I say acquire those rights with a few picks.

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This will not happen, but possible with salary cap increase. Kenny may pull this one out. Get Ovi via trade (Franzen, Cleary). Sign Semin. Sign a top D man. Ovi and Semin will be awesome playing with Pasha.They have been unstoppable at the worlds even by good defensive teams like Finland. I think these guys will start a new era for the Red Wings. Parise will be asking 8-9 mil/year and a long term contract. to me he is not that guy. Iam assuming that Washington is going from offensive to a shot blocking, grinding, defensive hockey and Ovi does not feet in those categories. He needs to fly out there and score goals. Wings are his kinda team. Same goes for Semin. After all this is just a wish.

Edited by arag
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CAPGEEK.COM USER GENERATED ROSTER

My Custom Lineup

FORWARDS

Zach Parise ($7.000m) / Pavel Datsyuk ($6.700m) / Danny Cleary ($2.800m)

Gustav Nyquist ($0.875m) / Henrik Zetterberg ($6.083m) / Rick Nash ($7.800m)

Patrick Eaves ($1.200m) / Darren Helm ($1.500m) / Justin Abdelkader ($1.250m)

Brandon Prust ($1.500m) /Gregory Campbell ($1.000m) / Travis Moen ($1.500m)

Drew Miller ($0.838m) / Jan Mursak ($0.550m)

DEFENSEMEN

Nicklas Lidstrom ($6.200m) / Ryan Suter ($7.000m)

Niklas Kronwall ($4.750m) / Ian White ($2.875m)

Jonathan Ericsson ($3.250m) / Brendan Smith ($0.875m)

Jakub Kindl ($0.883m)

GOALTENDERS

Jimmy Howard ($2.250m)

Josh Harding ($1.000m)

------

CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS(follow @capgeek on Twitter)

(these totals are compiledwithout the bonus cushion)

SALARY CAP:$70,000,000; CAPPAYROLL: $69,679,167; BONUSES:$37,500

CAP SPACE (23-manroster): $320,833

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Trading for negotiating rights always seems wasteful to me, but we don't really need more prospects or draft picks right now so I say acquire those rights with a few picks.

I think offering Quincey's RFA rights to Nashville for Suter's UFA rights would work for me.

CAPGEEK.COM USER GENERATED ROSTER

My Custom Lineup

FORWARDS

Zach Parise ($7.000m) / Pavel Datsyuk ($6.700m) / Danny Cleary ($2.800m)

Gustav Nyquist ($0.875m) / Henrik Zetterberg ($6.083m) / Rick Nash ($7.800m)

Patrick Eaves ($1.200m) / Darren Helm ($1.500m) / Justin Abdelkader ($1.250m)

Brandon Prust ($1.500m) /Gregory Campbell ($1.000m) / Travis Moen ($1.500m)

Drew Miller ($0.838m) / Jan Mursak ($0.550m)

DEFENSEMEN

Nicklas Lidstrom ($6.200m) / Ryan Suter ($7.000m)

Niklas Kronwall ($4.750m) / Ian White ($2.875m)

Jonathan Ericsson ($3.250m) / Brendan Smith ($0.875m)

Jakub Kindl ($0.883m)

GOALTENDERS

Jimmy Howard ($2.250m)

Josh Harding ($1.000m)

------

CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS(follow @capgeek on Twitter)

(these totals are compiledwithout the bonus cushion)

SALARY CAP:$70,000,000; CAPPAYROLL: $69,679,167; BONUSES:$37,500

CAP SPACE (23-manroster): $320,833

That line-up is amazing. I'm assuming Franzen, Filpulla, Emmerton, Bertuzzi, and Quincey's RFA rights are going to Columbus for Nash?

Harding won't sign with Detroit as a back-up. He'll sign with Tampa for a better shot as a starter. If Vokoun was smart, he'd sign here for 1.5 Million.

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I think offering Quincey's RFA rights to Nashville for Suter's UFA rights would work for me.

That line-up is amazing. I'm assuming Franzen, Filpulla, Emmerton, Bertuzzi, and Quincey's RFA rights are going to Columbus for Nash?

Harding won't sign with Detroit as a back-up. He'll sign with Tampa for a better shot as a starter. If Vokoun was smart, he'd sign here for 1.5 Million.

very clever sir i like the sound of that

problem is i cant see holland giving up a 1st rounder for a kid we drafted only to not resign him. family system.

Edited by number9

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very clever sir i like the sound of that

problem is i cant see holland giving up a 1st rounder for a kid we drafted only to not resign him. family system.

Ah, but if it helps us land Suter, I could see Kenny making that deal. You'd essentially be getting Suter for a late first round pick.

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I think offering Quincey's RFA rights to Nashville for Suter's UFA rights would work for me.

That line-up is amazing. I'm assuming Franzen, Filpulla, Emmerton, Bertuzzi, and Quincey's RFA rights are going to Columbus for Nash?

Harding won't sign with Detroit as a back-up. He'll sign with Tampa for a better shot as a starter. If Vokoun was smart, he'd sign here for 1.5 Million.

I know it's a pipe dream but hey, the Wings off season has been way too LONG for my liking so I get bored. :lol: I have Flip and Mule as the main parts of the Nash trade. Quincey can be a part of it if CBJ wants him. Throw in a prospect and a pick, whatever. Columbus will not trade with Detroit anyway. But Kenny should make an offer just for the hell of it. You never know. Howson doesn't strike me as being all that bright. Look at the contract he gave Wisniewski. :unsure: I think Bert's role on the team is usless. He is not a legit top 6 forward anymore. He is not a checking like player. He does not score alot, hit alot or block shots. He's 38 years old. I'd offer him to the Leafs and see if Burke will bite.

I made this fantasy team up wanting the Wings to have a clear identity. 2 amazing scoring lines and 2 checking lines to wear opponents down and do the dirty work. Abs is a much better winger than he is a centre. I think Eaves-Helm-Abs makes for a speedy and gritty line which can score a little. The 4th line are all UFAs who can provide a clear role. They gives us size and snarl. Prust and Campbell are under 30 and are still effective for a few more years. Moen has a Cup ring and his game is more suited to the playoffs. He knows how to win and on the 4th line he will thrive.

The biggest need for the Wings is to take the pressure off Dats and Z. Parise gives his speed and a solid all around game. He is an American version of Dats. He picks pockets of his opponents. Not quite as good as Dats does. We need Parise big time if we are to be a Cup contender. Nash gives us size, goal scoring and is a match-ups nightmare when playing with other elite players. I saw it on Team Canada. When Canada won gold at the last Olympics, he was easily their best player. While Crosby didn't show up until the game winning goal against the US, Nash was dominating other countries' best players.

Harding, Vokoun, whoever. I don't have much faith in Joey Mac's ailing back. He's played very well for the Wings but if they have the Cap space, they should upgrade this area in case Jimmy gets hurt. More importantly so they don't wear Jimmy out and he has to play 30 straight games because Babs has no faith in the back-up goalie.

I know it's unrealistic to expect so many changes in 1 summer but it's still nice to fantasize. Tell me which team in the NHL would beat that fictional team? :lol:

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Ah, but if it helps us land Suter, I could see Kenny making that deal. You'd essentially be getting Suter for a late first round pick.

I would definitely approve!

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whoa whoa whoa...

time to throw a cold bucket of realism on these nash trade proposals.

columbus wanted the rangers to give them Dubinsky (who we can't match, best bet is Filppula), McDonagh or Del Zotto (who we can't match, best bet is Smith), Stepan or Hagelin (who we can't match, best bet is Nyquist), Kreider (who we can't match, best bet is Jarnkrok) and a 2012 1st round selection. http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl-puck-daddy/high-rick-nash-price-tag-blue-jackets-trade-160758634.html

...so, from us, they'd probably require Filppula, Smith, Nyquist, Jarnkrok, a 1st...and then something else valuable (another 1st rd pick or top prospect).

idk if there's anyone in the league i'd give up that much for...maybe giroux?

Edited by blueadams

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If Nick retires everything is up in the air..

As sad as it is to see nick retire (likely tomorrow) it does afford us the ability to be EXTREMELY flexible and active no matter how high the cap ceiling becomes. I think Schultz is a target that Kenny has to consider as he is young, has size, nhl ready, and shoots right. Would be a great pair with Smith for many years to come. Assuming the cap rises to 69 mill. This is something that would rejuvenate our roster:

CAPGEEK.COM USER GENERATED ROSTER

My Custom Lineup

FORWARDS

Zach Parise ($7.500m) / Pavel Datsyuk ($6.700m) / Gustav Nyquist ($0.875m)

Valtteri Filppula ($3.000m) / Henrik Zetterberg ($6.083m) / Johan Franzen ($3.955m)

Danny Cleary ($2.800m) / Justin Abdelkader ($1.000m) / Todd Bertuzzi ($2.075m)

Brandon Prust ($1.250m) / Darren Helm ($1.800m) / Patrick Eaves ($1.200m)

Drew Miller ($0.838m) / Jan Mursak ($0.550m) /

DEFENSEMEN

Niklas Kronwall ($4.750m) / Ryan Suter ($7.500m)

Jonathan Ericsson ($3.250m) / Ian White ($2.875m)

Brendan Smith ($0.875m) / Justin Schultz ($2.500m)

Jakub Kindl ($0.883m) /

GOALTENDERS

Jimmy Howard ($2.250m)

Josh Harding ($1.000m)

------

CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)

(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)

SALARY CAP: $69,000,000; CAP PAYROLL: $65,508,712; BONUSES: $37,500

CAP SPACE (23-man roster): $3,491,288

I'd say this is the last year we see both Cleary and Bert on the third line and probably say goodbye to Cleary at year's end. The following season I could see Tatar taking a third line wing spot at a lower cap hit. There is plenty of space left to re-sign Fil and Jimmy next season especially if Cleary is removed. There is room to groom in the young talent like Jarnkrok, Pulks, Jurco, Sheahan on the third line over the following couple years after some time in GR.

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To me, it looks like this might be pretty close to our front office's ideal team heading into next season (though I have no idea who the big, physical 4th line grinder could be?):

CAPGEEK.COM USER GENERATED ROSTER

My Custom Lineup

FORWARDS

Zach Parise ($7.000m) / Pavel Datsyuk ($6.700m) / Johan Franzen ($3.955m)

Gustav Nyquist ($0.875m) / Henrik Zetterberg ($6.083m) / Valtteri Filppula ($3.000m)

Danny Cleary ($2.800m) / Darren Helm ($1.400m) / Todd Bertuzzi ($2.075m)

"Big, Physical 4th Line Forward?" ($1.000m) / Justin Abdelkader ($1.300m) / Patrick Eaves ($1.200m)

Drew Miller ($0.838m) / Cory Emmerton ($0.533m) /

DEFENSEMEN

Nicklas Lidstrom ($5.000m) / Ryan Suter ($7.000m)

Niklas Kronwall ($4.750m) / Ian White ($2.875m)

Brendan Smith ($0.875m) / Jonathan Ericsson ($3.250m)

Jakub Kindl ($0.883m) /

GOALTENDERS

Jimmy Howard ($2.250m)

Tomas Vokoun ($1.000m)

------

CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)

(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)

SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $66,642,045; BONUSES: $37,500

CAP SPACE (23-man roster):- $2,342,045

*****

I like it. I still don't like the third line (because I hate Bertuzzi and Cleary in the bottom six). But I love that defensive group, I like having a solid backup goalie, and I think we're getting just what the doctor ordered on the first, second and fourth lines. That team could gel into something great next season?

Gee, this lineup looks vaguely familiar....I have had it exact in my sig since the Wings were eliminated. (sans your 4th line UFA) Plus I originally posted one very similar if not the same in the "Devellano believes...$70M) thread...Glad to see I have some similar goals and dreams as Holland! :lol:

I do like the idea of a big 4th liner..Moen? But if they want to sign all those positions PLUS Holmstrom (if he wants to come back) that would mean one of Emmerton or Mursak is gone. Plus Hudler is let go and we have an extra 1st and 3rd in 2013 after Quincey signs for $3.5M+ somewhere else...(lets hope a lottery type team!)

Edited by LeftWinger

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Gee, this lineup looks vaguely familiar....I have had it exact in my sig since the Wings were eliminated. (sans your 4th line UFA) Plus I originally posted one very similar if not the same in the "Devellano believes...$70M) thread...Glad to see I have some similar goals and dreams as Holland! :lol:

I do like the idea of a big 4th liner..Moen? But if they want to sign all those positions PLUS Holmstrom (if he wants to come back) that would mean one of Emmerton or Mursak is gone. Plus Hudler is let go and we have an extra 1st and 3rd in 2013 after Quincey signs for $3.5M+ somewhere else...(lets hope a lottery type team!)

Agreed. I really don't get good vibes from quincey. I think it makes sense to try to salvage what picks we can for him, as we are without our own first rounder.

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Agreed. I really don't get good vibes from quincey. I think it makes sense to try to salvage what picks we can for him, as we are without our own first rounder.

Honestly...I believe that Holland being the evil genius that he is, gave up his 1st round pick for him KNOWING that all he has to do is qualify him for the exact same salary he made last and knowing he will be looking for raise, Holland planned on the 1st and 3rd pick for him coming back for him all along! (or Quincey accepts the qualification offer and Holland gets a solid #5/#6 for barely over $3M... It's amazing when you step back and look at the big picture...I feel like doob sometimes when I hate on Holland and then realize what the plan was all along! Cukoo, Cukoo! :lol:

number9 and 55fan like this

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Honestly...I believe that Holland being the evil genius that he is, gave up his 1st round pick for him KNOWING that all he has to do is qualify him for the exact same salary he made last and knowing he will be looking for raise, Holland planned on the 1st and 3rd pick for him coming back for him all along! (or Quincey accepts the qualification offer and Holland gets a solid #5/#6 for barely over $3M... It's amazing when you step back and look at the big picture...I feel like doob sometimes when I hate on Holland and then realize what the plan was all along! Cukoo, Cukoo! :lol:

Very well could be the plan. that SOB thinks 10 steps ahead of everyone.....

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i'm guessing this is more or less the plan now..

CAPGEEK.COM USER GENERATED ROSTER

My Custom Lineup

FORWARDS

Zach Parise ($7.000m) / Pavel Datsyuk ($6.700m) / Johan Franzen ($3.955m)

Gustav Nyquist ($0.875m) / Henrik Zetterberg ($6.083m) / Valtteri Filppula ($3.000m)

Danny Cleary ($2.800m) / Darren Helm ($1.000m) / Todd Bertuzzi ($2.075m)

Power Forward? ($1.000m) / Justin Abdelkader ($0.866m) / Patrick Eaves ($1.200m)

Drew Miller ($0.838m) / Cory Emmerton ($0.533m) /

DEFENSEMEN

Ryan Suter ($7.000m) / Ian White ($2.875m)

Niklas Kronwall ($4.750m) / Kyle Quincey ($3.250m)

Brendan Smith ($0.875m) / Jonathan Ericsson ($3.250m)

Jakub Kindl ($0.883m) /

GOALTENDERS

Jimmy Howard ($2.250m)

Tomas Vokoun ($1.000m)

------

CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)

(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)

SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $64,058,295; BONUSES: $37,500

CAP SPACE (23-man roster): $241,705

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Hey look, Khan throw out he very same names i did 2 weeks ago. Ok guys go flame on him now..... LOL

Nicky retiring is his last great gift to the RW. Frees up a ton of money. We need to spend about 8 million to keep helm, Abby, and Quincey. That will leave 12-17 left to spend, and provide depth that we lack. Yes we could shoot for the stars at Suter and parise, or go for numbers and get 4 guys out of the second teir. Not sure how it will play out, no one is. But think about these 2 groups. Current roster plus Suter and parise OR current roster plus say Wideman, garrison, Doan and Jones. OR we focus on the blueline only this year, and load up on the forward lines next year which is a very deep class. Take the current roster and add Suter and Wideman. That is a very deep blueline, that also frees up players of value to trade for forwards that are pending UFA's in the 2013 class. Point is, while Nicky retiring may suck emotionaly, in the long run it can and should be to our great benefit.

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We need to spend about 8 million to keep helm, Abby, and Quincey.

ha ha wow, there is no way those 3 cost $8M

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Closer to $6.5M.

Agreed. I'd like to see Quincey at his 5% raise which is close to $3.3M. Then I'd prefer to see Helm at $1.5 and Abdelkader at $1.2. That would be $6 total. but I could see each being slightly higher.

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Agreed. I'd like to see Quincey at his 5% raise which is close to $3.3M. Then I'd prefer to see Helm at $1.5 and Abdelkader at $1.2. That would be $6 total. but I could see each being slightly higher.

Doesn't Helm seem a lot more valuable to this team than Quincey? How can he be valued at less than half of what Quincey is making?

Quincey was downright horrible with his penalties and giveaways. If anyone watched him in Colorado, he was the same player there, cross-checking after interference after boarding every game. And for Team Canada in the World Championships? His turnover directly led to a Slovak goal in the game Canada was eliminated.

Sure he has size, speed, and a great shot, but he has a lot of killer weaknesses.

hockeygirl8 likes this

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