joesuffP 1,746 Report post Posted June 5, 2012 I love helm but I want this trade to happen 1 T-Ruff reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EastonWings 2 Report post Posted June 5, 2012 Jim Matheson reports Red Wings GM Ken Holland is believed eyeing potential UFAs Ryan Suter (Nashville) and Zach Parise (New Jersey) if they aren’t re-signed by their respective clubs, and would be willing to trade for their negotiating rights. He also observed an “intriguing” trade proposal from the web in which “the Washington Capitals trading Mike Green and centre Brooks Laich to the Red Wings for Johan Franzen, Darren Helm and (Jakub) Kindl” Reported from spectorshockey.net Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EastonWings 2 Report post Posted June 5, 2012 (edited) As much as helm assets is valuable. This deal would help the wings assuming we sign parise and suter. It gives you two really good defensman. Green would be ideal for quarter backing the power play. Tatar,Jurco others are waiting to come up. so we'd have young fresh legs with speed. Not sure the wings move franzen tho being his contract is cap friendly. Wings outta focus on free agency first tho. Let's get suter a d Justin Shultz first. Edited June 5, 2012 by EastonWings Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ally 448 Report post Posted June 5, 2012 Helm. A 25 year old 6-0/180 LH shooting checking C. yes he is a good penalty killer. Might be the fastest man in the NHL. He also has his own injury issues. No not long term ones, but misses 10-15 games per year, including this years playoffs, with nagging injuries due to his lack of size. Did I miss something? MAYBE you can blame the knee injury on size but I'm almost positive that a skate to the arm isn't size related. 3 SaCkaveli20, Konnan511 and Hockeymom1960 reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SaCkaveli20 275 Report post Posted June 5, 2012 How many of them have avergaed over a point per game in the playoffs? Franzen did it 3 years in a row. Which means that, yes when he is hot there is no one better. Which those with a good understanding of the English langauge would have understood by my post. Hey, I like Franzen as much as the next guy but saying he is the BEST player in the league is absolutely ridiculous. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dimaline312000 51 Report post Posted June 5, 2012 I couldn't allow Helm to go in this deal but I if it didn't include him I'd seriously consider it. I still think the Wings would come out better IF THEY GOT Parise and Suter. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
joesuffP 1,746 Report post Posted June 5, 2012 I couldn't allow Helm to go in this deal but I if it didn't include him I'd seriously consider it. I still think the Wings would come out better IF THEY GOT Parise and Suter. Making this deal while acquiring Suter really solidifies our D... Hypothetically I think Ericsson plays on the 2nd pairing with White on the 3rd I really like the strides Ericsson has made and I think Babcock does too Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Richdg 267 Report post Posted June 5, 2012 Hey, I like Franzen as much as the next guy but saying he is the BEST player in the league is absolutely ridiculous. Heres the thing. I can't stand franzen. Every year he has one of the 12 games to 20 games scoring streaks where he is the best around, and then he disappears. When he is scoring he skates hard, plays D and checks people. When he isn't scoring he doesn't do any of those things. You can live with streaky scorers. it happens all the time. What drives me nuts is guys that don't work hard shift after shift, game after game. To the guy that said keep Franzen because "his contract is cap friendly', no it isn't. he is 33 now and will be making 4 million per year for 8 more freaking years! The arm cut the Helm suffered was a fluke. But he spends much of the year playing banged up or misses games because he is so small. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Konnan511 1,736 Report post Posted June 5, 2012 Franzen annoys me, but you're essentially trading Laich for Fanzen and Helm/Kindl for Green. The latter would be a steal, but trading our leading goal scorer for Laich is a terrrrrible trade. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LeftWinger 4,949 Report post Posted June 5, 2012 (edited) Correct me if I'm wrong, but was it not you that said that Helm was not worth 2 million? But now today "he's the third most valuable forward on the team" I agree with you today. Helmer's our bottom 6 MVP. He will get 2 million plus. And he won't be holding anyone hostage get it. You guys putting him down for less than 1.5 into your cap geek calculations are in for a let down. Ps left winger: I loved the earlier version of your dream roster. What happened? I know he is very valuable to this team, but I just don't see $2M+...but hey, Holland paid Ericsson a lot hoping by time he hits his prime it will be a bargain, so maybe he'll do the same with Helm... regarding my earlier roster, I obviously lost Lidstrom and Vokoun, so I went with Harding and took the $6.2M that Lids would've made and tried to upgrade a bit with the extra cash. I got rid of Emmerton and Mursak, bumped Franzen back with Z and added Doan. Also figured I would try to upgrade my 4th line by having Moen on there, thus making Eaves and Miller the rotating 13th/14th forwards... In the end, I can do or don't without Moen, but would love to see Dats flanked by Parise and Doan... EDIT: Also, I am trying to keep it somewhat realistic...I would love to trade Franzen and Cleary, but I just don't think Holland feels the same as me! Edited June 5, 2012 by LeftWinger Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Richdg 267 Report post Posted June 5, 2012 Franzen annoys me, but you're essentially trading Laich for Fanzen and Helm/Kindl for Green. The latter would be a steal, but trading our leading goal scorer for Laich is a terrrrrible trade. To get a lot you have to pay a lot. But if green were to be healthy, we score more goals with Green and laich than with our 3. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Hatethedrake! Report post Posted June 5, 2012 To get a lot you have to pay a lot. But if green were to be healthy, we score more goals with Green and laich than with our 3. This proposed trade does not improve the Wings. Green is a 1 way dman who is scared of his own shadow. Laich is an overpaid overrated centre who had 1 career season. Helm gives us speed with we sorely lack. Franzen though lazy and soft is much more valuable than the overrated Laich. If I am trading Franzen then I need a legit 30 goal scorer coming back the other way. Kindl should not be in the league. The Caps can have him. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chuckdee 7 Report post Posted June 5, 2012 Jim Matheson reports Red Wings GM Ken Holland is believed eyeing potential UFAs Ryan Suter (Nashville) and Zach Parise (New Jersey) if they aren't re-signed by their respective clubs, and would be willing to trade for their negotiating rights. He also observed an "intriguing" trade proposal from the web in which "the Washington Capitals trading Mike Green and centre Brooks Laich to the Red Wings for Johan Franzen, Darren Helm and (Jakub) Kindl" Reported from spectorshockey.net I'd trade Helm, Franzen and Kindi for Suter and Parise.. but not for Laich and Green....it is an interesting prospect though. Man, if we can get Suter and Parise.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DangleDangleBeach 16 Report post Posted June 5, 2012 How is it that we got raped in that trade? The Capitals happened to use that draft pick on Green. They could just as easily have picked someone else who turned out to be a complete bust. Lang was leading the league in scoring when the Wings traded for him, and he was one of the few players who showed up in the playoffs that season. Your point is based on the highly dubious supposition that the Wings would have selected Green with that pick. no i never said we would have drafted green. im just saying that since THEY DID with our pick that they worked us over on this deal looking back. had they drafted sami lepisto or kyle klubertanz it wouldnt look so ugly looking back but since lang never panned out... and since fleischman looks great for florida (as he did in washington) and green can be an offensive stud when healthy i find it hard to say this was a deal that worked out well for the wings. once again... i understand hindsight is always 20/20... looking back at how it all worked out its hard for me to say we won this trade. no need to respond to this... im just letting you know my logic and to be honest, dont really wanna go back and forth on a trade from years ago. i think we got worked, you think it was an okay trade.... leave it at that. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Richdg 267 Report post Posted June 5, 2012 This proposed trade does not improve the Wings. Green is a 1 way dman who is scared of his own shadow. Laich is an overpaid overrated centre who had 1 career season. Helm gives us speed with we sorely lack. Franzen though lazy and soft is much more valuable than the overrated Laich. If I am trading Franzen then I need a legit 30 goal scorer coming back the other way. Kindl should not be in the league. The Caps can have him. Hmmm check again. laich over the past 5 seasons has been very consistant. 4 seasons of 82 games, 1 of 78 game. 5 years ago he had 37 points. then a 59 point, 53 point, 48 point and 41 point. Star? No. solid 3 line C? yes. But Green and laich together are good for 50+ goals if they both play 75+ games. Franzen, helm and kindl will never score that many. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Hatethedrake! Report post Posted June 5, 2012 Hmmm check again. laich over the past 5 seasons has been very consistant. 4 seasons of 82 games, 1 of 78 game. 5 years ago he had 37 points. then a 59 point, 53 point, 48 point and 41 point. Star? No. solid 3 line C? yes. But Green and laich together are good for 50+ goals if they both play 75+ games. Franzen, helm and kindl will never score that many. Scoring goals is only part of what makes a successful team. Franzen is a proven playoff goal scoring machine. The last 2 years he has been invisible. In 2010 he was injured. This year he just stunk. Laich is not worth his salary. Helm's value is not in scoring goals. It's from preventing them. When he has the puck the other team doesn't. He draws penalties. If we had a good PP then we could take advantage of that. Why do we need Green? Especially if we get Suter. It seems to be a trade just for the sake of making a trade. Kenny will not do that. I don't know how he looks at this trade and thinks this makes any sense at all. Solid 3rd line centre" Isn't this what Helm is? So why do we need Laich? We give up Franzen, our best goal scoring winger and don't get back a winger in this trade? Kenny would not do that. We need more scoring not less. We need more speed not less. We need Helm more than any of the players mentioned in this fictitious trade proposal. It makes zero sense. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Richdg 267 Report post Posted June 5, 2012 Scoring goals is only part of what makes a successful team. Franzen is a proven playoff goal scoring machine. The last 2 years he has been invisible. In 2010 he was injured. This year he just stunk. Laich is not worth his salary. Helm's value is not in scoring goals. It's from preventing them. When he has the puck the other team doesn't. He draws penalties. If we had a good PP then we could take advantage of that. Why do we need Green? Especially if we get Suter. It seems to be a trade just for the sake of making a trade. Kenny will not do that. I don't know how he looks at this trade and thinks this makes any sense at all. Solid 3rd line centre" Isn't this what Helm is? So why do we need Laich? We give up Franzen, our best goal scoring winger and don't get back a winger in this trade? Kenny would not do that. We need more scoring not less. We need more speed not less. We need Helm more than any of the players mentioned in this fictitious trade proposal. It makes zero sense. But, and this is the key part. There are no sure things in FA. Currently with the cap at 70 million, there are 23 teams with 15+ million to spend. So there is going to be a bidding war, and there is a bunch of risk. if Suter and/or parise sign elsewhere we are going backwards. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Hatethedrake! Report post Posted June 5, 2012 But, and this is the key part. There are no sure things in FA. Currently with the cap at 70 million, there are 23 teams with 15+ million to spend. So there is going to be a bidding war, and there is a bunch of risk. if Suter and/or parise sign elsewhere we are going backwards. Looking at the Wings roster, if we can't sign both Suter and Parise, this team is not a playoff team. They still have some very good pieces in Dats, Z, Flip, Kronner, Smith, Helm, Howard. I am all for making trades. I just don't see Laich and Green being worth it. If we trade Franzen we MUST get a goal scoring winger in return. Otherwise we are robbing Peter Forsberg to pay Paul Kariya. If we lose out on both Parise and Suter, the trade options will still be there. Maybe Kenny does something at the draft. Who knows? It has to make sense. Making a trade for the sake of making a trade are what teams like the Sharks do. It's pointless and you can make your team worse than it was before. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mmamolo 287 Report post Posted June 5, 2012 Hmmm check again. laich over the past 5 seasons has been very consistant. 4 seasons of 82 games, 1 of 78 game. 5 years ago he had 37 points. then a 59 point, 53 point, 48 point and 41 point. Star? No. solid 3 line C? yes. But Green and laich together are good for 50+ goals if they both play 75+ games. Franzen, helm and kindl will never score that many. Brooks Laich has a $4.5M cap hit and has never scored more than 25 goals. Mike Green is an RFA who made $5.25M last season and is four years removed from his 31 goal season. I don't understand how you come up with 50+ goals from those two. They would both have to reach their career highs of a number of years ago. I'm not saying I don't like those two guys but even if Green signed for the same amount as last season you'd be talking about a combined $9.75M cap hit. You can do a lot better than those two for that cap hit. Not to mention the Wings would have to move players to get those two. 2 ogreslayer and hooon reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Crymson Report post Posted June 5, 2012 It's strange why people here whine about the length of Franzen's contract. Franzen produces for us NOW. If his contract becomes a problem years down the line, then the team can worry about it then. 1 hooon reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Richdg 267 Report post Posted June 5, 2012 Brooks Laich has a $4.5M cap hit and has never scored more than 25 goals. Mike Green is an RFA who made $5.25M last season and is four years removed from his 31 goal season. I don't understand how you come up with 50+ goals from those two. They would both have to reach their career highs of a number of years ago. I'm not saying I don't like those two guys but even if Green signed for the same amount as last season you'd be talking about a combined $9.75M cap hit. You can do a lot better than those two for that cap hit. Not to mention the Wings would have to move players to get those two. yes you add 10 million for those 2, but you subtract 7 million ish for franzen, Helm, and Kindl. So if we have 25 million to spend, we only used up 3 million, leaving 22 to add more..... many of us, myself included only look at 1 move by itself. That is a mistake. heck Holland opnely admits to making 4+ moves: 1 or 2 Dmen, a backup goalie, proven goal scorer, and girtty big physical forward for the bottom 2 lines. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Doc Holliday 1,888 Report post Posted June 5, 2012 It's strange why people here whine about the length of Franzen's contract. Franzen produces for us NOW. If his contract becomes a problem years down the line, then the team can worry about it then. Franzen is just an easy scapegoat because of his effort and contract length. It is what it is and the hate will die down if we get a Parise to take the load off the guy. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ogreslayer 1,069 Report post Posted June 5, 2012 It's strange why people here whine about the length of Franzen's contract. Franzen produces for us NOW. If his contract becomes a problem years down the line, then the team can worry about it then. I like to bag on the Mule because of what appears to be a lack of effort at times but really, the production the Wings get out of him for the cap hit he's at isn't anything to really ***** too much about. Just think if he was getting Vinny Lecavalier money. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LeftWinger 4,949 Report post Posted June 6, 2012 Just say no to trading Helm... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GMRwings1983 8,793 Report post Posted June 6, 2012 Franzen led the team in GWG during the regular season and the playoffs. Don't forget that. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
