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Would you make this trade?


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#61 Richdg

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Posted 05 June 2012 - 11:41 AM

Franzen annoys me, but you're essentially trading Laich for Fanzen and Helm/Kindl for Green. The latter would be a steal, but trading our leading goal scorer for Laich is a terrrrrible trade.



To get a lot you have to pay a lot. But if green were to be healthy, we score more goals with Green and laich than with our 3.

#62 Hatethedrake!

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Posted 05 June 2012 - 11:55 AM

To get a lot you have to pay a lot. But if green were to be healthy, we score more goals with Green and laich than with our 3.


This proposed trade does not improve the Wings. Green is a 1 way dman who is scared of his own shadow. Laich is an overpaid overrated centre who had 1 career season. Helm gives us speed with we sorely lack. Franzen though lazy and soft is much more valuable than the overrated Laich. If I am trading Franzen then I need a legit 30 goal scorer coming back the other way. Kindl should not be in the league. The Caps can have him.
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We need someone like Parise that can penetrate the box.-blueadams

#63 chuckdee

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Posted 05 June 2012 - 12:41 PM

Jim Matheson reports Red Wings GM Ken Holland is believed eyeing potential UFAs Ryan Suter (Nashville) and Zach Parise (New Jersey) if they aren't re-signed by their respective clubs, and would be willing to trade for their negotiating rights. He also observed an "intriguing" trade proposal from the web in which "the Washington Capitals trading Mike Green and centre Brooks Laich to the Red Wings for Johan Franzen, Darren Helm and (Jakub) Kindl"

Reported from spectorshockey.net


I'd trade Helm, Franzen and Kindi for Suter and Parise.. but not for Laich and Green....it is an interesting prospect though. Man, if we can get Suter and Parise....

#64 DangleDangleBeach

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Posted 05 June 2012 - 01:06 PM

How is it that we got raped in that trade? The Capitals happened to use that draft pick on Green. They could just as easily have picked someone else who turned out to be a complete bust. Lang was leading the league in scoring when the Wings traded for him, and he was one of the few players who showed up in the playoffs that season.



Your point is based on the highly dubious supposition that the Wings would have selected Green with that pick.


no i never said we would have drafted green. im just saying that since THEY DID with our pick that they worked us over on this deal looking back. had they drafted sami lepisto or kyle klubertanz it wouldnt look so ugly looking back but since lang never panned out... and since fleischman looks great for florida (as he did in washington) and green can be an offensive stud when healthy i find it hard to say this was a deal that worked out well for the wings.

once again... i understand hindsight is always 20/20... looking back at how it all worked out its hard for me to say we won this trade.

no need to respond to this... im just letting you know my logic and to be honest, dont really wanna go back and forth on a trade from years ago. i think we got worked, you think it was an okay trade.... leave it at that.

#65 Richdg

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Posted 05 June 2012 - 02:12 PM

This proposed trade does not improve the Wings. Green is a 1 way dman who is scared of his own shadow. Laich is an overpaid overrated centre who had 1 career season. Helm gives us speed with we sorely lack. Franzen though lazy and soft is much more valuable than the overrated Laich. If I am trading Franzen then I need a legit 30 goal scorer coming back the other way. Kindl should not be in the league. The Caps can have him.



Hmmm check again. laich over the past 5 seasons has been very consistant. 4 seasons of 82 games, 1 of 78 game. 5 years ago he had 37 points. then a 59 point, 53 point, 48 point and 41 point. Star? No. solid 3 line C? yes. But Green and laich together are good for 50+ goals if they both play 75+ games. Franzen, helm and kindl will never score that many.

#66 Hatethedrake!

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Posted 05 June 2012 - 02:22 PM

Hmmm check again. laich over the past 5 seasons has been very consistant. 4 seasons of 82 games, 1 of 78 game. 5 years ago he had 37 points. then a 59 point, 53 point, 48 point and 41 point. Star? No. solid 3 line C? yes. But Green and laich together are good for 50+ goals if they both play 75+ games. Franzen, helm and kindl will never score that many.



Scoring goals is only part of what makes a successful team. Franzen is a proven playoff goal scoring machine. The last 2 years he has been invisible. In 2010 he was injured. This year he just stunk. Laich is not worth his salary. Helm's value is not in scoring goals. It's from preventing them. When he has the puck the other team doesn't. He draws penalties. If we had a good PP then we could take advantage of that. Why do we need Green? Especially if we get Suter. It seems to be a trade just for the sake of making a trade. Kenny will not do that. I don't know how he looks at this trade and thinks this makes any sense at all. Solid 3rd line centre" Isn't this what Helm is? So why do we need Laich? We give up Franzen, our best goal scoring winger and don't get back a winger in this trade? Kenny would not do that. We need more scoring not less. We need more speed not less. We need Helm more than any of the players mentioned in this fictitious trade proposal. It makes zero sense.
Jordan Tootoo will wreck shop.

We need someone like Parise that can penetrate the box.-blueadams

#67 Richdg

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Posted 05 June 2012 - 02:26 PM

Scoring goals is only part of what makes a successful team. Franzen is a proven playoff goal scoring machine. The last 2 years he has been invisible. In 2010 he was injured. This year he just stunk. Laich is not worth his salary. Helm's value is not in scoring goals. It's from preventing them. When he has the puck the other team doesn't. He draws penalties. If we had a good PP then we could take advantage of that. Why do we need Green? Especially if we get Suter. It seems to be a trade just for the sake of making a trade. Kenny will not do that. I don't know how he looks at this trade and thinks this makes any sense at all. Solid 3rd line centre" Isn't this what Helm is? So why do we need Laich? We give up Franzen, our best goal scoring winger and don't get back a winger in this trade? Kenny would not do that. We need more scoring not less. We need more speed not less. We need Helm more than any of the players mentioned in this fictitious trade proposal. It makes zero sense.



But, and this is the key part. There are no sure things in FA. Currently with the cap at 70 million, there are 23 teams with 15+ million to spend. So there is going to be a bidding war, and there is a bunch of risk. if Suter and/or parise sign elsewhere we are going backwards.

#68 Hatethedrake!

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Posted 05 June 2012 - 02:31 PM

But, and this is the key part. There are no sure things in FA. Currently with the cap at 70 million, there are 23 teams with 15+ million to spend. So there is going to be a bidding war, and there is a bunch of risk. if Suter and/or parise sign elsewhere we are going backwards.


Looking at the Wings roster, if we can't sign both Suter and Parise, this team is not a playoff team. They still have some very good pieces in Dats, Z, Flip, Kronner, Smith, Helm, Howard. I am all for making trades. I just don't see Laich and Green being worth it. If we trade Franzen we MUST get a goal scoring winger in return. Otherwise we are robbing Peter Forsberg to pay Paul Kariya. If we lose out on both Parise and Suter, the trade options will still be there. Maybe Kenny does something at the draft. Who knows? It has to make sense. Making a trade for the sake of making a trade are what teams like the Sharks do. It's pointless and you can make your team worse than it was before.
Jordan Tootoo will wreck shop.

We need someone like Parise that can penetrate the box.-blueadams

#69 mmamolo

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Posted 05 June 2012 - 02:54 PM

Hmmm check again. laich over the past 5 seasons has been very consistant. 4 seasons of 82 games, 1 of 78 game. 5 years ago he had 37 points. then a 59 point, 53 point, 48 point and 41 point. Star? No. solid 3 line C? yes. But Green and laich together are good for 50+ goals if they both play 75+ games. Franzen, helm and kindl will never score that many.

Brooks Laich has a $4.5M cap hit and has never scored more than 25 goals.

Mike Green is an RFA who made $5.25M last season and is four years removed from his 31 goal season.

I don't understand how you come up with 50+ goals from those two. They would both have to reach their career highs of a number of years ago.

I'm not saying I don't like those two guys but even if Green signed for the same amount as last season you'd be talking about a combined $9.75M cap hit. You can do a lot better than those two for that cap hit. Not to mention the Wings would have to move players to get those two.
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#70 Crymson

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Posted 05 June 2012 - 03:00 PM

It's strange why people here whine about the length of Franzen's contract. Franzen produces for us NOW. If his contract becomes a problem years down the line, then the team can worry about it then.

#71 Richdg

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Posted 05 June 2012 - 03:31 PM

Brooks Laich has a $4.5M cap hit and has never scored more than 25 goals.

Mike Green is an RFA who made $5.25M last season and is four years removed from his 31 goal season.

I don't understand how you come up with 50+ goals from those two. They would both have to reach their career highs of a number of years ago.

I'm not saying I don't like those two guys but even if Green signed for the same amount as last season you'd be talking about a combined $9.75M cap hit. You can do a lot better than those two for that cap hit. Not to mention the Wings would have to move players to get those two.



yes you add 10 million for those 2, but you subtract 7 million ish for franzen, Helm, and Kindl. So if we have 25 million to spend, we only used up 3 million, leaving 22 to add more.....

many of us, myself included only look at 1 move by itself. That is a mistake. heck Holland opnely admits to making 4+ moves: 1 or 2 Dmen, a backup goalie, proven goal scorer, and girtty big physical forward for the bottom 2 lines.

#72 Doc Holliday

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Posted 05 June 2012 - 04:00 PM

It's strange why people here whine about the length of Franzen's contract. Franzen produces for us NOW. If his contract becomes a problem years down the line, then the team can worry about it then.


Franzen is just an easy scapegoat because of his effort and contract length. It is what it is and the hate will die down if we get a Parise to take the load off the guy.

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#73 ogreslayer

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Posted 05 June 2012 - 06:17 PM

It's strange why people here whine about the length of Franzen's contract. Franzen produces for us NOW. If his contract becomes a problem years down the line, then the team can worry about it then.

I like to bag on the Mule because of what appears to be a lack of effort at times but really, the production the Wings get out of him for the cap hit he's at isn't anything to really ***** too much about. Just think if he was getting Vinny Lecavalier money.

#74 LeftWinger

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Posted 05 June 2012 - 07:03 PM

Just say no to trading Helm...

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#75 GMRwings1983

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Posted 05 June 2012 - 08:14 PM

Franzen led the team in GWG during the regular season and the playoffs.

Don't forget that.
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#76 LeftWinger

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Posted 05 June 2012 - 08:19 PM

Franzen led the team in GWG during the regular season and the playoffs.

Don't forget that.

Never will! Man we'd never have won those games without those GWG's! He had more than Pav and Hank combined! Throw this guy $7M!

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#77 YougotDatsyuked

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Posted 05 June 2012 - 08:31 PM

I don't view Helm as a never trade guy. His best assets are pressuring the puck and pk mainly due to his speed. He isn't the first player able to do this nor the only player in the NHL. Draps did it for years and scored goals. Now I don't know about this trade but if there was the right offer I would trade him.

#78 Richdg

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Posted 06 June 2012 - 12:10 AM

I don't view Helm as a never trade guy. His best assets are pressuring the puck and pk mainly due to his speed. He isn't the first player able to do this nor the only player in the NHL. Draps did it for years and scored goals. Now I don't know about this trade but if there was the right offer I would trade him.



There are very very few untouchables in any sport. With caps the number gets smaller and smaller. They are only players that you can't trade due to no trade clauses and guys that are very expensive to move. As for moves, there are no sure things. Anyone can get hurt and have their careers end tomorrow. So yes there is always risk. Could this move happen? No. From the get go I said it can't, laich has a no trade clause. But would Green help us? Yes. the question becomes what is the price? No one really knows that answer.

#79 Buppy

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Posted 06 June 2012 - 12:43 AM

Laich is a bit better (and much more durable) version of Cleary. Green is very good offensively, not so on defense. He'll likely never have another 30g season, and has had a ton of injury problems the last two years.

Giving up our best goal scorer (who does have a friendly cap hit, for now) and a sparkplug center who is the kind of cheap but invaluable role player that every team needs would be stupid. Yeah, we need a defenseman or two, but not at the cost of creating new holes in the lineup (plus Green doesn't even fill the defense part of our defenseman hole). Sure, it could work coupled with other moves/signings. But those same other moves also work by themselves.

#80 pucktividi

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Posted 06 June 2012 - 09:12 AM

Brooks Laich has a $4.5M cap hit and has never scored more than 25 goals.


...because of playing efficiently on 3 or even on the 4th Caps line at times.
How many points would Franzen have playing with Helm,Miller... for a half of a season?





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