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Would you make this trade?


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#81 dirtydangles

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Posted 06 June 2012 - 10:01 AM

Here me out on this... I think there is something there in this trade. Its just you need to tweak it a bit as Green>Franzen+Kindl but Helm>Laich.

Det - Mike Green RFA
Wsh - Johan Franzen, Ian White, (Maybe a pick if needed?)

Then we go and do something like this:

CAPGEEK.COM USER GENERATED ROSTER
My Custom Lineup
FORWARDS
Zach Parise ($7.500m) / Pavel Datsyuk ($6.700m) / Gustav Nyquist ($0.875m)
Valtteri Filppula ($3.000m) / Henrik Zetterberg ($6.083m) / David Jones ($4.000m)
Danny Cleary ($2.800m) / Darren Helm ($2.000m) / Todd Bertuzzi ($2.075m)
Brandon Prust ($1.000m) / Justin Abdelkader ($1.000m) / Patrick Eaves ($1.200m)
Drew Miller ($0.838m) / Cory Emmerton ($0.533m) /
DEFENSEMEN
Ryan Suter ($7.500m) / Mike Green ($5.000m)
Niklas Kronwall ($4.750m) / Jonathan Ericsson ($3.250m)
Brendan Smith ($0.875m) / Justin Schultz ($2.000m)
Jakub Kindl ($0.883m) /
GOALTENDERS
Jimmy Howard ($2.250m)
Josh Harding ($1.250m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $70,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $67,362,500; BONUSES: $37,500
CAP SPACE (23-man roster): $2,937,500

Bertuzzi is the only lazy player left on the team. Alternative to Schultz is sign Quincey at 3.5mill. That D looks too good (if green stays healthy). Green would replace White's right shot but he has size and the potential to be a huge point producer. Jones replaces Franzen on the right wing but with a more reasonable contract length and a right shot. Next season we can part ways with Cleary if he doesn't have it together this season and insert Tatar. Pretty good situation for the future. I think all contracts are reasonable cap hits. Let me know what you think.

Is there a kickstarter campaign for Jakub Kindl to never play another NHL game?


#82 HelmFan

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Posted 06 June 2012 - 10:28 AM

...because of playing efficiently on 3 or even on the 4th Caps line at times.
How many points would Franzen have playing with Helm,Miller... for a half of a season?



that's easy. Take the # of games he decides to show up for x 4.

#83 Doc Holliday

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Posted 07 June 2012 - 03:12 PM

...because of playing efficiently on 3 or even on the 4th Caps line at times.
How many points would Franzen have playing with Helm,Miller... for a half of a season?


So you expect Laich to just be bumped up to the first line and score 30 goals off the cuff?

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#84 LeftWinger

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Posted 07 June 2012 - 03:54 PM

Here me out on this... I think there is something there in this trade. Its just you need to tweak it a bit as Green>Franzen+Kindl but Helm>Laich.

Det - Mike Green RFA
Wsh - Johan Franzen, Ian White, (Maybe a pick if needed?)

Then we go and do something like this:

CAPGEEK.COM USER GENERATED ROSTER
My Custom Lineup
FORWARDS
Zach Parise ($7.500m) / Pavel Datsyuk ($6.700m) / Gustav Nyquist ($0.875m)
Valtteri Filppula ($3.000m) / Henrik Zetterberg ($6.083m) / David Jones ($4.000m)
Danny Cleary ($2.800m) / Darren Helm ($2.000m) / Todd Bertuzzi ($2.075m)
Brandon Prust ($1.000m) / Justin Abdelkader ($1.000m) / Patrick Eaves ($1.200m)
Drew Miller ($0.838m) / Cory Emmerton ($0.533m) /
DEFENSEMEN
Ryan Suter ($7.500m) / Mike Green ($5.000m)
Niklas Kronwall ($4.750m) / Jonathan Ericsson ($3.250m)
Brendan Smith ($0.875m) / Justin Schultz ($2.000m)
Jakub Kindl ($0.883m) /
GOALTENDERS
Jimmy Howard ($2.250m)
Josh Harding ($1.250m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $70,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $67,362,500; BONUSES: $37,500
CAP SPACE (23-man roster): $2,937,500

Bertuzzi is the only lazy player left on the team. Alternative to Schultz is sign Quincey at 3.5mill. That D looks too good (if green stays healthy). Green would replace White's right shot but he has size and the potential to be a huge point producer. Jones replaces Franzen on the right wing but with a more reasonable contract length and a right shot. Next season we can part ways with Cleary if he doesn't have it together this season and insert Tatar. Pretty good situation for the future. I think all contracts are reasonable cap hits. Let me know what you think.

Whoops!

http://www.nhl.com/i...s.htm?id=634099


Guess we got to trade Franzen and Andersson for Alex Burrows now!

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#85 dirtydangles

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Posted 07 June 2012 - 04:17 PM

Whoops!

http://www.nhl.com/i...s.htm?id=634099


Guess we got to trade Franzen and Andersson for Alex Burrows now!

In my defence I posted that yesterday BEFORE Jones re-signed. However, there are other players available through free agency to replace Franzen (Semin). I would still do Green for Franzen, White, maybe a pick. Franzen is getting up there (and is lazy) and his contract will look worse each year. I think it would be wise to move him and that contract while he still has value and teams want his scoring.

So the question is: Would the Caps do:

Green

for

Franzen, White, Mid Pick

Is there a kickstarter campaign for Jakub Kindl to never play another NHL game?


#86 Majsheppard

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Posted 07 June 2012 - 04:32 PM

No.

BTW, Green is one of the worst defensemen I have ever seen. He has offensive power and helps a power play but is terrible defensively, gets banged up every so often, and just isn't someone I would build my defense around. I think he is a luxury, and the Wings surely can't afford that let alone at the expense of cornerstones.
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Tootoo does NOT belong on this team. He is classless and I would rather see the Wings be bad than classless. I feel the same way about Bertuzzi as well, but he at least CAN make the team better. With Tootoo the team becomes worse and in danger of being classless. Would you have liked Claude on the team? Or Roy? No. So why would you be okay with that POS.

This thread has been closed due to emotions being higher than people's ability to read, interpret, and properly respond to simple posts.

#87 dirtydangles

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Posted 07 June 2012 - 04:38 PM

No.

BTW, Green is one of the worst defensemen I have ever seen. He has offensive power and helps a power play but is terrible defensively, gets banged up every so often, and just isn't someone I would build my defense around. I think he is a luxury, and the Wings surely can't afford that let alone at the expense of cornerstones.

Id take him over Franzen and He would go nice with Suter. Has a right shot (we need). And put up 70+ points for 2 seasons before getting 3 unrelated injuries (bad luck). If he had a chronic injury I would be concerned (like a recurring shoulder issue) but I think he's just had bad luck. He isn't as terrible as you think (was nominated for norris) and we do need some points from the back end now that lids and rafi are both gone.

Is there a kickstarter campaign for Jakub Kindl to never play another NHL game?


#88 FlashyG

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Posted 07 June 2012 - 04:40 PM

Considering we are almost certain to lose our 2nd best goal scorer from last season why would we trade our best for a defenceman that doesn't really fill the hole we need?

Green would fill some of the offence we lost with Lidstrom retiring but defensively he's about equivalent to Quincey.

As far as Franzen's and his contract goes, how many points do you figure he needs to put up a year to justify 4 million a season? The average # of points for that price range is about 32 pts a season and Franzen almost doubled that. I know he'll regress but I don't see him falling into the 32 pts a season range anytime soon.

I'm not opposed to trading him but only if we already signed a replacement FA for him like you suggested with Semin and for a defenceman who provides a more all around game.

(BTW some might argue that Semin suffers from the same laziness that Franzen is accused of, the only difference is he puts up fewer pts, hits less and can't take draws. He does turn the puck over less frequently than Franzen though.)

Id take him over Franzen and He would go nice with Suter. Has a right shot (we need).



We'd need another one after the trade you proposed though as you traded the only other right hander on our D-corps.

Edited by FlashyG, 07 June 2012 - 04:41 PM.


#89 dirtydangles

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Posted 07 June 2012 - 04:46 PM

Considering we are almost certain to lose our 2nd best goal scorer from last season why would we trade our best for a defenceman that doesn't really fill the hole we need?

Green would fill some of the offence we lost with Lidstrom retiring but defensively he's about equivalent to Quincey.

As far as Franzen's and his contract goes, how many points do you figure he needs to put up a year to justify 4 million a season? The average # of points for that price range is about 32 pts a season and Franzen almost doubled that. I know he'll regress but I don't see him falling into the 32 pts a season range anytime soon.

I'm not opposed to trading him but only if we already signed a replacement FA for him like you suggested with Semin and for a defenceman who provides a more all around game.

(BTW some might argue that Semin suffers from the same laziness that Franzen is accused of, the only difference is he puts up fewer pts, hits less and can't take draws. He does turn the puck over less frequently than Franzen though.)


We'd need another one after the trade you proposed though as you traded the only other right hander on our D-corps.


People forget Green was nominated for the Norris along with Chara and Lidstrom. He put up 31 goals one season. Those numbers (and his point totals (70+)) replace Franzen easily. Franzen's contract doesn't look bad now, but wait 2 years when he becomes even more complacent and then realize he has like 5 years more than that on the contract. Rather start fresh. My ideal replacement was Jones but Semin or Doan would do as well. People forget that Semin plays on the PK too which Franzen doesn't and has a right shot. We have enough guys that can take draws, Heck we have an overabundance of centres (on the team and coming up the pipeline).

Edited by dirtydangles, 07 June 2012 - 04:46 PM.

Is there a kickstarter campaign for Jakub Kindl to never play another NHL game?


#90 FlashyG

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Posted 07 June 2012 - 05:08 PM

People forget Green was nominated for the Norris along with Chara and Lidstrom. He put up 31 goals one season. Those numbers (and his point totals (70+)) replace Franzen easily. Franzen's contract doesn't look bad now, but wait 2 years when he becomes even more complacent and then realize he has like 5 years more than that on the contract. Rather start fresh. My ideal replacement was Jones but Semin or Doan would do as well. People forget that Semin plays on the PK too which Franzen doesn't and has a right shot. We have enough guys that can take draws, Heck we have an overabundance of centres (on the team and coming up the pipeline).


Green has put up a grand total of 31 pts in 2 seasons since he was nominated for the Norris, and has shown no ability to stay healthy either. Franzen is capable of scoring more goals in a single game than Green had all this season.

His production would have to cut in half before he even becomes even an average player for his salary.


With the rate our centers get tossed from the face-off circle we should have 2 players on every line able to take draws. Franzen killed penalties for Sweden at the WHC and was just fine in that role. Semin wants to kill penalties (at least his agent claims so) but wasn't used in that role any more than Franzen was this season. I will admit thought that his RH shot would be a nice asset to have on the PP

Ultimately though, he has all the same (unwarranted) accusations leveled at him that Franzen does, Streaky, Lazy , Floater etc.
It happens every time a teams fans develop unrealistic expectations for their players.




#91 dirtydangles

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Posted 07 June 2012 - 05:30 PM

Green has put up a grand total of 31 pts in 2 seasons since he was nominated for the Norris, and has shown no ability to stay healthy either. Franzen is capable of scoring more goals in a single game than Green had all this season.

His production would have to cut in half before he even becomes even an average player for his salary.


With the rate our centers get tossed from the face-off circle we should have 2 players on every line able to take draws. Franzen killed penalties for Sweden at the WHC and was just fine in that role. Semin wants to kill penalties (at least his agent claims so) but wasn't used in that role any more than Franzen was this season. I will admit thought that his RH shot would be a nice asset to have on the PP

Ultimately though, he has all the same (unwarranted) accusations leveled at him that Franzen does, Streaky, Lazy , Floater etc.
It happens every time a teams fans develop unrealistic expectations for their players.

Green got unlucky with injuries. The one was a concussion (not his fault) z could get one too if he hot hit hard enough in the head. Its not like cleary and his knees. Regardless the points drop was because of those freak injuries. He will return to form likely.

Is there a kickstarter campaign for Jakub Kindl to never play another NHL game?


#92 FlashyG

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Posted 07 June 2012 - 07:12 PM

If he regains that form we can talk about trying to acquire him but as of right now he's not even close to being worth Franzen. His numbers this season were more on par with Kindl's offensively.

when he played in the last 2 years his scoring pace was not even in the ballpark of previous seasons.

2009/2010 - 1 pt per game
2010/2011 - .49 pts per game
2011/2012 - .21 pts per game

#93 LeftWinger

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Posted 07 June 2012 - 07:42 PM

I'd take Green...but not for White. (no I am not bias towards colors :lol:) Anyway, If they would take Quincey's rights instead along with Franzen then I would be fine with it.

to WAS: J. Franzen, K. Quincey RFA rights

to DET: M. Green


Kronwall - Suter
Green - White
Smith - Ericcson (*Schultz)
(*DeKeyser)

*#7 depending on who Holland signs...

Edited by LeftWinger, 07 June 2012 - 07:44 PM.

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#94 Majsheppard

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Posted 07 June 2012 - 09:58 PM

Id take him over Franzen and He would go nice with Suter. Has a right shot (we need). And put up 70+ points for 2 seasons before getting 3 unrelated injuries (bad luck). If he had a chronic injury I would be concerned (like a recurring shoulder issue) but I think he's just had bad luck. He isn't as terrible as you think (was nominated for norris) and we do need some points from the back end now that lids and rafi are both gone.


You know who would play well with Suter? Anyone.

You know who we don't have? Suter.

You know what wasn't good last year? Forwards.

You know what won't help? Trading them for defensemen.

Honest to God, any trade for Green will piss me off, but one including Helm is dumb by itself. Franzen straight for Green would be iffy but could work. I don't like it really.

I want to point out that Green being nominated for the Norris doesn't make him a good defensemen. It just says his stats were good that one year. He scored 30+ goals. That was absurd, but he isn't good at defending. I mean, you don't get anything for being good at something else. It would be like getting a car based on the good sat nav... while it sucks at driving.

Green is rubbish, no way would I make this deal. More puck hounds at forward please. That is what we need.
"It is a lot easier to be an ******* to words than to people"-xkcd

Tootoo does NOT belong on this team. He is classless and I would rather see the Wings be bad than classless. I feel the same way about Bertuzzi as well, but he at least CAN make the team better. With Tootoo the team becomes worse and in danger of being classless. Would you have liked Claude on the team? Or Roy? No. So why would you be okay with that POS.

This thread has been closed due to emotions being higher than people's ability to read, interpret, and properly respond to simple posts.

#95 pucktividi

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Posted 07 June 2012 - 11:41 PM

So you expect Laich to just be bumped up to the first line and score 30 goals off the cuff?


I don't expect(post#35),but he definitely could reach Franzen's 60+ points playing with Dats or Z + he's twice better 2-way player than the Mule...sadly

#96 unreal91

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Posted 21 June 2012 - 02:13 PM

Why is everyone hating the mule so much.
All the pain and beatings he takes. He has some of the worst luck when it comes to random injuries, however he plays through them.
He's a soilder and he fights through it. Remind you of anybody? stevey y? That kind of determination can really help a team out.
Now i know comparing him with stevey is a little crazy but he does have a similair pain threshold which can really bring more out of a team.

I know he isn't the most amazing power forward, However He plays good for what he makes and i dont think there's been one game we lost that can be soley put in his hands. I say absolutely not this is a terrible trade the wings should not even consider making a counter offer (even though this is bologna)

Helmer - too important for our future.
Franzen - Soilder, plays hurt, Has a rifle when he actuallyf****** uses it.
kindl - not sure about him. i like to think hes getting better. but i'd still take smith over him anyday. and don't see why he didnt get kindls spot.

Mike green - One of the worst gambles the wings could make a trade for. i'd give him maybe a 25% chance of helping in anyway at all. there are better options.
Laich - He's a center. We have no need for him.

Maybe if they threw in semin but thats another gamble. because he doesn't play like what he's worth on the open market or in russia.

All i know is, July 1st cannot come soon enough.

#97 HelmFan

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Posted 21 June 2012 - 04:48 PM

Why is everyone hating the mule so much.
All the pain and beatings he takes. He has some of the worst luck when it comes to random injuries, however he plays through them.
He's a soilder and he fights through it. Remind you of anybody? stevey y? That kind of determination can really help a team out.
Now i know comparing him with stevey is a little crazy but he does have a similair pain threshold which can really bring more out of a team.

I know he isn't the most amazing power forward, However He plays good for what he makes and i dont think there's been one game we lost that can be soley put in his hands. I say absolutely not this is a terrible trade the wings should not even consider making a counter offer (even though this is bologna)

Helmer - too important for our future.
Franzen - Soilder, plays hurt, Has a rifle when he actuallyf****** uses it.
kindl - not sure about him. i like to think hes getting better. but i'd still take smith over him anyday. and don't see why he didnt get kindls spot.

Mike green - One of the worst gambles the wings could make a trade for. i'd give him maybe a 25% chance of helping in anyway at all. there are better options.
Laich - He's a center. We have no need for him.

Maybe if they threw in semin but thats another gamble. because he doesn't play like what he's worth on the open market or in russia.

All i know is, July 1st cannot come soon enough.


People, myself included, rag on Franzen because he is the absolute opposite of "determined". He is the laziest, softest player on the team. He also complains about being bored. Franzen has never shown an ounce of determination. I'll gaurantee you that nobody on the Red Wings is inspired by his play or his attitude.

We really should get rid of him, before he does become an influence on the next generation of Red Wings.

#98 Doc Holliday

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Posted 21 June 2012 - 04:55 PM

I don't expect(post#35),but he definitely could reach Franzen's 60+ points playing with Dats or Z + he's twice better 2-way player than the Mule...sadly


If we don't have a goal scorer on the first line, what good is that first line?

The Nashville series showed we need MORE goal scorers, not less.

People, myself included, rag on Franzen because he is the absolute opposite of "determined". He is the laziest, softest player on the team. He also complains about being bored. Franzen has never shown an ounce of determination. I'll gaurantee you that nobody on the Red Wings is inspired by his play or his attitude.

We really should get rid of him, before he does become an influence on the next generation of Red Wings.


Never? Really? Wonder where he got the name "Mule", then.

Edited by Doc Holliday, 21 June 2012 - 04:55 PM.

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#99 Johnz96

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Posted 21 June 2012 - 05:33 PM

Jim Matheson reports Red Wings GM Ken Holland is believed eyeing potential UFAs Ryan Suter (Nashville) and Zach Parise (New Jersey) if they aren't re-signed by their respective clubs, and would be willing to trade for their negotiating rights. He also observed an "intriguing" trade proposal from the web in which "the Washington Capitals trading Mike Green and centre Brooks Laich to the Red Wings for Johan Franzen, Darren Helm and (Jakub) Kindl"

Reported from spectorshockey.net

I would make that trade in a heartbeat

#100 hooon

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Posted 21 June 2012 - 05:34 PM

Its popular to hate on Mule these days, that's why people do it.

People like to pretend the streakiness is a new thing, but Holland and co. and anyone else paying attention would know that he's always been streaky, even back in 08 when everyone loved him (didn't a huge % of his goals that year come in March?).

Fact is, he's led the team in goals for the past two years, and has a very friendly cap hit. If the Wings move him out, it had better be for someone who scores more than 30 goals a season to make up for his lost offense.


My biggest knock on Franzen is that he doesn't use his size as effectively as he could. He's one of our only big forwards, but doesn't play big.
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