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Message to Ken Holland...


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#21 number9

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Posted 10 June 2012 - 02:41 PM

Trust me... The Red Wings offer $8.5 million and 3 first round picks... Shea Weber is ours.
Give Ryan Suter a long-term 6 million deal with his best friend Zach Parise... Ryan Suter is ours.

This is the recipe for more Stanley Cups...


So you WANT to sign a defenseman to an EXPENSIVE contract AND give up 3 extremely valuable assets in the process? In the business world we call that... stupid lol.

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#22 Hatethedrake!

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Posted 10 June 2012 - 02:47 PM

Holland is not offering anything for Weber. The plan is clear. SIgn Suter this summer and then sign Weber NEXT summer. Even if Weber did sign an offer sheet, Nashville would match. Offer sheets are as rare as a sensible post from richdg. All they do is negotiate a contract for the team which has his restricted free agent rights. RFAs are not really free agents. As in they are not really FREE. Like when Carolina signed Sergei Fedorov to an offer sheet in 1998. The Wings matched it. Carolina essentially negotiated the contract for Detroit. That is what an offer sheet for Weber would do. Poile would just match it. All NHL teams know this which is why there will not be an offer sheet made for Weber by any team. Teams will simply wait until he is a UFA next summer. Kenny will be interested.
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We need someone like Parise that can penetrate the box.-blueadams

#23 gcom007

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Posted 10 June 2012 - 03:18 PM

Unless we could pull off something crazy to get Weber via trade, he's not worth it. But, I would love for that to happen. I don't give a s*** what happened to Z, and I doubt Z does either. Weber's a tough player who wants to win, and he got carried away. That's hardly his typical style. I said the same thing the night it happened, but I'd love to have Weber on our team pushing someone's head into the glass because he was that intense in the moment. It wasn't a great move and I'm not condoning it, but the level of intensity he had that lead to him making an uncharacteristic move like that was the difference between the Wings and the Preds. He's hungry. He's all in. I'd love to have him on our team at some point. If we can't work out a miracle trade this year, I say we go after him hard when he's a UFA.

Again, for the love, Chris Chelios ended up playing longer in Detroit than any other city! Chris Chelios! If you don't realize how big of a deal that is, you don't know your Wings history too well.

All I'm saying is that I think we can handle Weber just fine.
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#24 Hockey13Playa

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Posted 10 June 2012 - 03:23 PM

Trust me... The Red Wings offer $8.5 million and 3 first round picks... Shea Weber is ours.
Give Ryan Suter a long-term 6 million deal with his best friend Zach Parise... Ryan Suter is ours.

This is the recipe for more Stanley Cups...


Look at our past roster...it's filled with 2nd to 10th round picks. The Red Wings know how to draft in later rounds.

Kris Draper for a dollar from Winnipeg!
Kirk Maltby a trade with Edmonton in '95 for defenseman Dan McGillis! WHO IS DAN McGILLIS!!!!
Vladimir Konstantinov 1989: 11th round, (221st overall)
Sergei Fedorov 1989 - 4th round (74th overall)
Keith Primeau to Hartford for Brendan Shanahan!
Nick Lidstrom 1989 - 3rd round (53rd overall)
Slava Kozlov 1990 - 2nd round (45th overall)
Bob Probert 1983 - 3rd (46th overall)
Joe Kocur 1983 - 5th Round, (88th overall)
Johan Franzen 2004 - 3rd round (97th overall)
Darren Helm 2005 - 5th round (132nd overall)
Pavel Datsyuk1998 - 6th round (171st overall)
Valtteri Filppula 2002 - 3rd round (95th overall)
Tomas Holmstrom 1994 - 10th round (257th overall)
Henrik Zetterberg 1999 - 7th round (210th overall)
Jonathan Ericsson 2002 - 9th Round, (291st overall)
Chris Osgood 1991 - 3rd round (54th overall)
Jimmy Howard 2003 - 2nd Rnd, (64th overall)


The best move was, LARRY MURPHY 1997 Trade for "future considerations." Murphy was essentially run out of town by Leafs faithful unimpressed with his
defensive play. Detroit gave up nothing to get the future Hall of Famer - the Leafs even paid some of Murphy’s salary - but the move paid off big time for the
Red Wings, who went on to win the Stanley Cup that year and the next.


Alright, I am going to give you two responses here... One really short summed up response, and another with more text.

Response One: You are off your rocker!

Response Two: There is no way in hell that Holland is going to throw an offer sheet at Weber for 8.5million and give up three first round picks. That is crazy, and absolutely stupid. Yes Weber is good but to make a move like that is beyond awful. Why do you think it has ever been done before? Also, do you have a crystal ball? Thinking that 6 million for Suter and then Parise on long term contracts just guarantee the wings got both of them guys in the bag? I think you need to hop of that cloud you are on and come back down to Earth. Last but not least what is up with that laundry list you made? If those are justifications on why were getting Weber, Suter, and Parise then its like comparing apples to oranges. Those facts have nothing to do what so ever with acquiring those players. Weber will not be a wing this season, Holland will no way throw an offer sheet at him. I say we have a 50-60% chance to sign Suter and Parise but your assumption they we got them is just asinine.

Oh yeah, and one more thing, Suter and Parise are NOT best friends. They might be labeled as "friends" but to say they are best friends and are going to sign together is a little far fetched. No guarantees of that either. I wouldn't bank to much on if you sign one you got the other.

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#25 Johnz96

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Posted 10 June 2012 - 03:30 PM

So you WANT to sign a defenseman to an EXPENSIVE contract AND give up 3 extremely valuable assets in the process? In the business world we call that... stupid lol.

I collect ceramic figurines of unicorns.


I generally agree with you Fourth Line Grinder but for Weber it would be worth it, he is exactly what we need on our defense (he suits our needs much more than Suter does because he is mean , a right handed shot and a better hockey player than Suter). A dominant Norris Trophy defenseman is easily worth 3 lesser players which the drat choices will certainly be, Nashville would probably match the offer though

Alright, I am going to give you two responses here... One really short summed up response, and another with more text.

Response One: You are off your rocker!

Response Two: There is no way in hell that Holland is going to throw an offer sheet at Weber for 8.5million and give up three first round picks. That is crazy, and absolutely stupid. Yes Weber is good but to make a move like that is beyond awful. Why do you think it has ever been done before? Also, do you have a crystal ball? Thinking that 6 million for Suter and then Parise on long term contracts just guarantee the wings got both of them guys in the bag? I think you need to hop of that cloud you are on and come back down to Earth. Last but not least what is up with that laundry list you made? If those are justifications on why were getting Weber, Suter, and Parise then its like comparing apples to oranges. Those facts have nothing to do what so ever with acquiring those players. Weber will not be a wing this season, Holland will no way throw an offer sheet at him. I say we have a 50-60% chance to sign Suter and Parise but your assumption they we got them is just asinine.

Oh yeah, and one more thing, Suter and Parise are NOT best friends. They might be labeled as "friends" but to say they are best friends and are going to sign together is a little far fetched. No guarantees of that either. I wouldn't bank to much on if you sign one you got the other.

Lol. Suter and Parise are going to get more than $6 mill.
I would give 3 firsts for Suter and 8.5 he is probably the best d-man in the league (and he is mean and nasty and would be on the ice for almost half the game) exactly what the Wings need.
He would instantly put our PP back near or on top

Edited by Johnz96, 10 June 2012 - 03:45 PM.


#26 Hockey13Playa

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Posted 10 June 2012 - 03:37 PM

Lol. Suter and Parise are going to get more than $6 mill.
I would give 3 firsts for Suter and 8.5 he is probably the d-man in the league (and he is mean and nasty and would be on the ice for almost half the game) exactly what the Wings need.
He would instantly put our PP back near or on top


I never said they would be getting 6 million, I know they will be getting more then that. MrBest7 stated that on page one that we can sign them for that. I also assume you mean you would give 3 firsts for Weber, not Suter.

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#27 Johnz96

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Posted 10 June 2012 - 03:47 PM

So you WANT to sign a defenseman to an EXPENSIVE contract AND give up 3 extremely valuable assets in the process? In the business world we call that... stupid lol.

I collect ceramic figurines of unicorns.


Our last first rounders were Sheahan, McCollum and Smith and that would be steep but worth it.
Prior to Smith because the jury's still out on those guys our previous first rounders were Kindl, Kronwall and Fischer again steep but worth it.
It is absolutely amazing how ell we draft considering how low we pick and that we trade so many of our firsts.
Weber is arguably the best d-man in hockey, he is mean and nasty (something the Wings desperately need) and a right-handed shot (also something the Wings desperately need)
Zetterberg would love to have him on the team and to not have to play against him, Babcock would love him on the team and Howard would love it probably more than anybody else

I never said they would be getting 6 million, I know they will be getting more then that. MrBest7 stated that on page one that we can sign them for that. I also assume you mean you would give 3 firsts for Weber, not Suter.


Yes I did mean Weber not Suter, I was agreeing with what you said about assuming that Suter and Parise are guaranteed Wings at $6 mill

Our last first rounders were Sheahan, McCollum and Smith and that would be steep but worth it.
Prior to Smith because the jury's still out on those guys our previous first rounders were Kindl, Kronwall and Fischer again steep but worth it.
It is absolutely amazing how ell we draft considering how low we pick and that we trade so many of our firsts.
Weber is arguably the best d-man in hockey, he is mean and nasty (something the Wings desperately need) and a right-handed shot (also something the Wings desperately need)
Zetterberg would love to have him on the team and to not have to play against him, Babcock would love him on the team and Howard would love it probably more than anybody else



Yes I did mean Weber not Suter, I was agreeing with what you said about assuming that Suter and Parise are guaranteed Wings at $6 mill and I meant to say that Weber is arguably the best d-man in hockey. I really should read my comments before I post them. lol



#28 SaCkaveli20

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Posted 10 June 2012 - 03:52 PM

To be fair, our next 3 first round picks (more than likely pick 20+) likely will never be as good as Shea Weber. He's a top 3 defenseman in the league.
With that being said, I don't think I agree with above comments on signing him to an offer sheet. Draft picks are so unbelievably overrated it isn't even funny. There's absolutely NO guarentee those players will turn out to be anything, let alone a Norris Trophy calibre defenseman.
But again, with that being said, I understand teams not trading their first round picks like they're a bag of pucks lol.

#29 Johnz96

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Posted 10 June 2012 - 03:58 PM

To be fair, our next 3 first round picks (more than likely pick 20+) likely will never be as good as Shea Weber. He's a top 3 defenseman in the league.
With that being said, I don't think I agree with above comments on signing him to an offer sheet. Draft picks are so unbelievably overrated it isn't even funny. There's absolutely NO guarentee those players will turn out to be anything, let alone a Norris Trophy calibre defenseman.
But again, with that being said, I understand teams not trading their first round picks like they're a bag of pucks lol.


The next 3 first picks overall most likely will never be as good as Weber, he is arguably the best d-man in the league

#30 number9

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Posted 10 June 2012 - 04:21 PM

I generally agree with you Fourth Line Grinder but for Weber it would be worth it, he is exactly what we need on our defense (he suits our needs much more than Suter does because he is mean , a right handed shot and a better hockey player than Suter). A dominant Norris Trophy defenseman is easily worth 3 lesser players which the drat choices will certainly be, Nashville would probably match the offer though


Say you have 3 average apples, each worth 25 cents....Then you see a really kick ass tasty apple valued at 50 cents (whoa that's double the value of just one of my average apples!!! it must be a helluva good apple!!!) So you trade your three average apples for that 1 awesome apple that you just had to have....You now have a great apple but you paid 75 cents for something that is worth 50 cents....That's a bad business decision and Holland doesn't make bad business decisions.

Having a Norris caliber D-man on your roster does not equal a championship

Offer sheets are dooshy.... We are classy

Weber will be UFA after next season, so why waste picks?

Also, they will match any offer....and if they didn't the contract would be inflated (another bad thing for business)

Edited by number9, 10 June 2012 - 04:22 PM.


#31 Johnz96

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Posted 10 June 2012 - 04:28 PM

Say you have 3 average apples, each worth 25 cents....Then you see a really kick ass tasty apple valued at 50 cents (whoa that's double the value of just one of my average apples!!! it must be a helluva good apple!!!) So you trade your three average apples for that 1 awesome apple that you just had to have....You now have a great apple but you paid 75 cents for something that is worth 50 cents....That's a bad business decision and Holland doesn't make bad business decisions.

Having a Norris caliber D-man on your roster does not equal a championship

Offer sheets are dooshy.... We are classy

Weber will be UFA after next season, so why waste picks?

Also, they will match any offer....and if they didn't the contract would be inflated (another bad thing for business)

I agree with you about offer sheets but sometimes you have to make exceptions. They might not match
We need him now.
Weber probably won't be a UFA next year. i f we spend the money neccesary to get Suter and Parise (which will take a lot more than $12 mill that everyone seems to be suggesting), we won't have cap space to get Weber. I think Weber would be more of a benefit to this team than Parise AND Suter
Average apples are a dime a dozen on the free agent market so 3 of them are only 2.5 cents compared to Weber at fitty cent

Edited by Johnz96, 10 June 2012 - 04:35 PM.


#32 number9

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Posted 10 June 2012 - 04:35 PM

We need him now.
Average apples are a dime a dozen on the free agent market so 3 of them are only 2.5 cents compared to Weber at fitty cent


Now? don't turn into a maple leaf fan on me lol patience and smart decisions wins cups. Would you rather win the cup next year, or 3 times over the next 10 years?

a draft pick is an asset, not a person, average apple does not mean average player...as soon as you think of it that way you've missed the point.

Edit: Forgot to reiterate one of my previous points: Having a Norris caliber D-man on your roster does not equal a championship

Edited by number9, 10 June 2012 - 04:53 PM.


#33 Johnz96

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Posted 10 June 2012 - 04:55 PM

Now? don't turn into a maple leaf fan on me lol patience and smart decisions wins cups. Would you rather win the cup next year, or 3 times over the next 10 years?

a draft pick is an asset, not a person, average apple does not mean average player...as soon as you think of it that way you've missed the point.


It would be great to replace the best d-man in the world with the best d-man in the world and he woud provide the right-handed shot on d we desperately need and the toughness that we also so desperately need.
We have given up a lot firsts over the years and we have still been the best team in the league over the last 2 decades (never missed the playoffs, most reg season wins, most playoff wins and most Cups). We have had only 6 first rounders in the last 15 years

It would be great to replace the best d-man in the world with the best d-man in the world and he woud provide the right-handed shot on d we desperately need and the toughness that we also so desperately need.
We have given up a lot firsts over the years and we have still been the best team in the league over the last 2 decades (never missed the playoffs, most reg season wins, most playoff wins and most Cups). We have had only 6 first rounders in the last 15 years



#34 Johnz96

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Posted 10 June 2012 - 05:04 PM

Now? don't turn into a maple leaf fan on me lol patience and smart decisions wins cups. Would you rather win the cup next year, or 3 times over the next 10 years?

a draft pick is an asset, not a person, average apple does not mean average player...as soon as you think of it that way you've missed the point.

Edit: Forgot to reiterate one of my previous points: Having a Norris caliber D-man on your roster does not equal a championship


It equaled 4 for us.
All this is moot I just found out that it would take 5 first rounders on an 8.5 offer sheet and that is too steep even for Weber, but I don't think getting Suter and Parise will make us much better than last year and we will still be pushed around and easy to play against and our PP won't be any better, Sure Parise will help but Suter isn't as good as Nick was and we still don't have a right-handed shot from the point for the PP.
In which case I would hold off on spending big bucks on UFAs try to get Schultz and give the youngsters a lot of time evaluate our needs from there and try to make a deadline deal and hopefully be a player in next years UFA market where there should be some players that suit our specific needs

Edited by Johnz96, 10 June 2012 - 05:24 PM.


#35 number9

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Posted 10 June 2012 - 05:11 PM

It would be great to replace the best d-man in the world with the best d-man in the world and he woud provide the right-handed shot on d we desperately need and the toughness that we also so desperately need.
We have given up a lot firsts over the years and we have still been the best team in the league over the last 2 decades (never missed the playoffs, most reg season wins, most playoff wins and most Cups). We have had only 6 first rounders in the last 15 years


First, do not compare Weber to Lidstrom, Weber is not and never will be a Lidstrom.

Second, Weber is a great D-man but I'm far from convinced he is the best in the world. Suter actually plays better D than Weber does....and his defense partner is Suter...if Lebda's defense partner was Suter he would look pretty good too lol. Don't get me wrong Weber is great, but he's benefited a lot from having one of the most underrated D-men next to him for his whole career. He's not the best in the world.

Third, we gave up those picks in sensible transactions. We never threw 8.5 mill and 3 first rounders at anyone. Smart transactions is one of the reasons we have been able to dominate over the last 2 decades. Not just drafting.

#36 number9

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Posted 10 June 2012 - 05:19 PM

It equaled 4 for us.
All this is mute I just found out that it would take 5 first rounders on an 8.5 offer sheet and that is too steep even for Weber, but I don't think getting Suter and Parise will make us much better than last year and we will still be pushed around and easy to play against and our PP won't be any better, Sure Parise will help but Suter isn't as good as Nick was and we still don't have a right-handed shot from the point for the PP.
In which case I would hold off on spending big bucks on UFAs try to get Schultz and give the youngsters a lot of time evaluate our needs from there and try to make a deadline deal and hopefully be a player in next years UFA market where there should be some players that suit our specific needs


No, having a great TEAM equaled 4 for us.

Are we talking about a different team? We did fantastic last year (most consecutive home wins and all that jazz) just had an early playoff exit....it happens man....yes even to the best of us. And guess what? Yeah we don't have a Lidstrom anymore....but no other team has one either!!! lol Suter and Parise would be HUGEEEE for this already great team.

Edited by number9, 10 June 2012 - 05:20 PM.


#37 Johnz96

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Posted 10 June 2012 - 05:22 PM

First, do not compare Weber to Lidstrom, Weber is not and never will be a Lidstrom.

Second, Weber is a great D-man but I'm far from convinced he is the best in the world. Suter actually plays better D than Weber does....and his defense partner is Suter...if Lebda's defense partner was Suter he would look pretty good too lol. Don't get me wrong Weber is great, but he's benefited a lot from having one of the most underrated D-men next to him for his whole career. He's not the best in the world.

Third, we gave up those picks in sensible transactions. We never threw 8.5 mill and 3 first rounders at anyone. Smart transactions is one of the reasons we have been able to dominate over the last 2 decades. Not just drafting.


We gave up a first, Fleischman and a fourth for Lang.
I think Suter benefited more from Weber than the other way around.
I know Weber will never be a Lidstrom but he is arguably the best there is now
agree, I do think we have a great team, if Howard payed as good as he did in the first half of the season and/or Rinne wasn't as hot as he was against us and with a little puck luck the Wings could still be playing hockey right now

Edited by Johnz96, 10 June 2012 - 05:27 PM.


#38 Buppy

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Posted 10 June 2012 - 05:32 PM

The criteria for RFA draft pick compensation in 2011-12 is as follows:
•$1,034,249 annual cap hit or less: No compensation
•$1,034,249 — $1,567,043: Third-round pick
•$1,567,043 — $3,134,088: Second-round pick
•$3,134,088 — $4,701,131: First and third-round pick
•$4,701,131 — $6,268,175: First, second and third-round pick
•$6,268,175 — $7,835,219: Two first-round picks, a second and third
•$7,835,219 and higher: Four first-round picks



#39 number9

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Posted 10 June 2012 - 05:35 PM

We gave up a first, Fleischman and a fourth for Lang.
I think Suter benefited more from Weber than the other way around.
I know Weber will never be a Lidstrom but he is arguably the best there is now


At that time Lang was the leading scorer in the NHL LOL. F-man was young then, a projected low quality 2nd line guy, and we knew he had chronic health issues. Giving up him, a first, and a fourth is more than reasonable for a more than point per game player. 3 firsts for Lang....now that would have been unreasonable.

Weber is better than Suter in the O zone and Suter is better than Weber in the D zone....they both benefit

#40 PredsFanTheBayouState

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Posted 10 June 2012 - 06:45 PM

:rotflmao:
in all seriousness though, Weber will sign with Nashville cause no team in the cap era not named the Leafs wants to deal away 3 years of 1st rounders. Suter however already stated he will be going on the FA market. Nashville will return to obscurity next year, but hey, they still have Fisher and Underwood...





where have you heard that suter said he will be going on the FA market





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