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Red Wings Prepared to Offer Hudler Contract


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#41 Hatethedrake!

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 08:57 AM

We have enough skill players already. We need more size and snarl. Kenny will offer him a contract he can only refuse.
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We need someone like Parise that can penetrate the box.-blueadams

#42 LeftWinger

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 09:10 AM

We have enough skill players already. We need more size and snarl. Kenny will offer him a contract he can only refuse.

Why even waste his time though? Cant fit all these players on the roster. re-sign Hudler and unless he makes a trade or two, we are in for the same team, pretty much, as last season...

edit: I'd rather take some of the money he is prepared to offer Hudler and extend Filppula for the next 5 years. Filppula will get $4M+ if not close to $5M if he continues his growth from last season. An honestly, Holland needs to work on Extendind Pav soon, he has two more years on this contract and if he waits until it expires, Pav will be 35 and then if for some reason Pav has to retire before the contract is up...Holland still has to take the Cap hit until the new contract is up. If Pav signs while he is still 34 (he is 33 now) the Cap hit would come off the books...You got to figure Pav will get whatever they sign Parise for...at least. BTW, thank Godness that Z is signed through 2021, so at least we wont have to "re-sign" him anytime soon! He will retire I would assume at that time...or do what Lids did for a few years. If they can do it, I'd like to see both Pav and Z amass 20 years. See where they fall on the all-time list and hang their numbers up next to #5, #19, etc...

Edited by LeftWinger, 11 June 2012 - 09:39 AM.

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#43 Doc Holliday

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 09:12 AM

Why even waste his time though? Cant fit all these players on the roster. re-sign Hudler and unless he makes a trade or two, we are in for the same team, pretty much, as last season...


Not really. You sign a high profile forward and that changes the makeup of the team completely. And the Wings have the space to do that and put Hudler on the 3rd line. A big reason why Hudler won't be signing here.

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#44 LeftWinger

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 09:43 AM

Not really. You sign a high profile forward and that changes the makeup of the team completely. And the Wings have the space to do that and put Hudler on the 3rd line. A big reason why Hudler won't be signing here.

You know, I was thinking that, if for some reason Hudler accepted $3M, he would be ok on line #3, but ya, I think he wants $4.5M+ AND top line minutes...I just would rather see Nyquist here full time and not lose Miller or Eaves than re-sign Hudler...now if for some reason Eaves has to hang em up because of his PCS, then the boat changes for sure...

Hey, maybe Holland is prepared to off Hudler a Contract so he can trade him at the draft? That would be great!

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#45 Hatethedrake!

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 09:50 AM

Looking further ahead to NEXT summer, I am inclined to believe that maybe Kenny should sign Parise and Suter and keep the rest of his Cap space. Why? Because we need to have enough Cap space to sign Shea Weber as he will be a UFA by then. Also, we need to lock up Filppula and Howard to new contract extensions. Here is what we could look like after next July 1st...

CAPGEEK.COM USER GENERATED ROSTER
My Custom Lineup
FORWARDS
Zach Parise ($7.000m) / Pavel Datsyuk ($6.700m) / Gustav Nyquist ($0.875m)
Valtteri Filppula ($3.000m) / Henrik Zetterberg ($6.083m) / Johan Franzen ($3.955m)
Danny Cleary ($2.800m) / Darren Helm ($1.500m) / Todd Bertuzzi ($2.075m)
Drew Miller ($0.838m) / Justin Abdelkader ($1.250m) / Patrick Eaves ($1.200m)
Jan Mursak ($0.550m) / Tomas Tatar ($0.840m) /
DEFENSEMEN
Ryan Suter ($7.000m) / Shea Weber ($8.000m)
Niklas Kronwall ($4.750m) / Kyle Quincey ($3.250m)
Jonathan Ericsson ($3.250m) / Brendan Smith ($0.875m)
Jakub Kindl ($0.883m)
GOALTENDERS
Jimmy Howard ($2.250m)
Joey MacDonald ($0.550m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $70,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $69,473,712; BONUSES: $247,500
CAP SPACE (23-man roster): $826,288

So we need to find some room to give Jimmy around 4-5 mil a year most likely. Flip will likely come around the same numbers. So do we let Quincey and his 3 plus mil go? White will be a UFA next summer and can be replaced with Weber. Tatar will be on the team then replacing Emmerton. Does Kenny use all of his cap space this summer but only on 1 year deals? Parise and Suter will get long term deals in the 10 year range. But after that, I think Kenny should not lock in any long term deals so he can have enough room to go after Weber and factor in raises for Flip and Jimmy.

Edited by Hatethedrake!, 11 June 2012 - 09:51 AM.

Jordan Tootoo will wreck shop.

We need someone like Parise that can penetrate the box.-blueadams

#46 55fan

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 09:57 AM

I really kind of hope they let him try out free agency. If we sign someone better, we don't need him. If he can't get anything bigger, we can sign him cheaper.

If we end up needing him and he isn't getting what he wants from other teams, we can always sign him short-term. It's not like he isn't putting up points for us. We can sign him for a one-year contract. That way he'll have another "contract year".

True, he might end up somewhere else and we don't get anyone we're looking at, in which case we'll miss him, but I think it's worth the risk.

Personally, I hope we re-sign him because I love watching how funny veins get when people are ready to explode.

And because my friend is soooooo in love with him. :hehe:

#47 Nightfall

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 10:19 AM

Hudler is worth a contract for a reasonable amount. I was thinking 3 million per season for 3 seasons would be perfectly acceptable. That being said, he can probably fetch $4 million per season and get a 3 year deal somewhere. If he can get that much, and he wants that much, then go for it. The Wings expect most players to take a discount when they play here. Its part of the reason why we have made the playoffs for 20+ years.

Personally, I don't know what the issue is here. If I was a pro hockey player, and I was offered $4 million to play somewhere, but I could get paid $3 million a season and a chance to compete for a championship, I would take less money.
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#48 kipwinger

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 10:41 AM

To me, the main thing to consider when it comes to offering Hudler a contract is whether or not we expect Nyquist to be on the team full time next season. If management doesn't expect Nyquist to play everyday then resigning Hudler makes sense because he fills the second line winger position and allows you to field a real good Bert-Helm-Cleary third line, and a dynamite Miller-Abby-Eaves fourth line. However, if they are expecting them both to play full time then that really puts the bottom six in disarray because Nyquist has too much skill to be on the fourth line, and is mismatched in terms of style on a third line with Helm, Bert, or Cleary. I think someone here mentioned something recently about the bottom two lines needing identity. They have it so long as Gustav Nyquist doesn't play on those two lines. A highly skilled player on either of those lines as they are conceived above doesn't make any sense.

So the question to me is, does Nyquist play every day? The answer seems to depend on getting a real scoring threat to play with Datsyuk. You get a Parise or a Semin to play with Datsyuk and Franzen, then you can afford to lose Hudler's production on the second line because the third line and fourth lines will be MUCH better than last year's incarnations. If they don't get the top liner to go with D and Franzen, then you might as well resign Hudler because you'll need the offense any way you can get it, especially considering one of either Bert or Cleary will have to be back in the top six which will ultimately limit the production you'll get out of the bottom two lines.

Edited by kipwinger, 11 June 2012 - 10:42 AM.

GMRwings:  "Well, in other civilized countries, 16 years old isn't considered underage.  For instance, I believe the age of consent is 16 in Canada.  There's some US states where it's 16 as well.  

 

Get off the high horse.  Not like she was 10."

 

"Some girls are 17 even though they look 25."

 

 


#49 Number19

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 10:45 AM

Please Columbus sign him for 5mil a year.

#50 Hatethedrake!

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 10:48 AM

Please Columbus sign him for 5mil a year.


Seeing how Columbus manages its team, this is would not be a surprise at all. Rick Nash's replacement is Jiri Hudler. :lol:
Jordan Tootoo will wreck shop.

We need someone like Parise that can penetrate the box.-blueadams

#51 LeftWinger

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 10:51 AM

To me, the main thing to consider when it comes to offering Hudler a contract is whether or not we expect Nyquist to be on the team full time next season. If management doesn't expect Nyquist to play everyday then resigning Hudler makes sense because he fills the second line winger position and allows you to field a real good Bert-Helm-Cleary third line, and a dynamite Miller-Abby-Eaves fourth line. However, if they are expecting them both to play full time then that really puts the bottom six in disarray because Nyquist has too much skill to be on the fourth line, and is mismatched in terms of style on a third line with Helm, Bert, or Cleary. I think someone here mentioned something recently about the bottom two lines needing identity. They have it so long as Gustav Nyquist doesn't play on those two lines. A highly skilled player on either of those lines as they are conceived above doesn't make any sense.

So the question to me is, does Nyquist play every day? The answer seems to depend on getting a real scoring threat to play with Datsyuk. You get a Parise or a Semin to play with Datsyuk and Franzen, then you can afford to lose Hudler's production on the second line because the third line and fourth lines will be MUCH better than last year's incarnations. If they don't get the top liner to go with D and Franzen, then you might as well resign Hudler because you'll need the offense any way you can get it, especially considering one of either Bert or Cleary will have to be back in the top six which will ultimately limit the production you'll get out of the bottom two lines.

as much as we disagree on things, these are my exacts thoughts...matter of fact, I mentioned Nyquist a little earlier on and your idea of the bottom six is mine exactly (that is if we don't acquire a big man for the 4th.)

edit: I know my dream roster in my sig says a bit different, but obviously of Doan is not acquired, Franzen moves back up, Filppula moves back up, Helm moves back up and Eaves moves back up, making Miller our 13th...

Edited by LeftWinger, 11 June 2012 - 10:52 AM.

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#52 amato

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 10:54 AM

I want to see nyquist up full time for sure! I want to see a nyq/Dats/Z line some day soon.

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#53 kipwinger

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 11:05 AM

as much as we disagree on things, these are my exacts thoughts...matter of fact, I mentioned Nyquist a little earlier on and your idea of the bottom six is mine exactly (that is if we don't acquire a big man for the 4th.)

edit: I know my dream roster in my sig says a bit different, but obviously of Doan is not acquired, Franzen moves back up, Filppula moves back up, Helm moves back up and Eaves moves back up, making Miller our 13th...


Yeah, we really just need depth signings on the top end. Signing one top line player actually makes the first, third, and fourth lines better by itself. If that happens you don't NEED Hudler's points, though they are nothing to scoff at, and you can give Nyquist the shot. However, without a top liner you end up scrambling to find quality line combinations, like we did last year, and you end up playing guys in roles they aren't suited for (e.g. Abby as a third line forward capable of scoring ever). Without front end talent our depth is seriously questionable and you have to resign Hudler to field anything close to a competitive team.

side note: We don't disagree on much. 4 out of 10 disagreement here at LGW involve people not completely reading and comprehending what someone else is trying to say. 3 out of 10 involve one party or the other being pissed off because they sincerely want the team to do well and think they have correctly identified the problem. 2 out of 10 disagreements involve one party or another intentionally trying to be dick on the internet because there's really no harm in it, so why not? Only, 1 out of 10 disagreements on LGW is truly substantive.

GMRwings:  "Well, in other civilized countries, 16 years old isn't considered underage.  For instance, I believe the age of consent is 16 in Canada.  There's some US states where it's 16 as well.  

 

Get off the high horse.  Not like she was 10."

 

"Some girls are 17 even though they look 25."

 

 


#54 kipwinger

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 11:15 AM

I want to see nyquist up full time for sure! I want to see a nyq/Dats/Z line some day soon.


I don't want to see that line ever. Why put all your playmakers on one line? Who would be the other line, Franzen-Filppula-Clear/Bert...ugh.

GMRwings:  "Well, in other civilized countries, 16 years old isn't considered underage.  For instance, I believe the age of consent is 16 in Canada.  There's some US states where it's 16 as well.  

 

Get off the high horse.  Not like she was 10."

 

"Some girls are 17 even though they look 25."

 

 


#55 Dimaline312000

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 12:21 PM

That has to to be the dumbest thing I've heard on this board in a long time. Why?

Holland could announce tomorrow he and Hudler have decided to sign him to a 3 year 9 million dollar contract. Meaning they have locked him up at a reasonable rate for a guy who can give you 20+ goals and 50+ points a season.



It's not a realistic deal and Hudler is nowhere near where he was before he left fo the KHL. Yes he improved this past season vs the the 10-11 Season but not as good as he was in 08 or 09. We could used the money to get someone a bit better. So it's how I feel no one is asking you to feel the same.

#56 Shaman

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 01:07 PM

Looking further ahead to NEXT summer, I am inclined to believe that maybe Kenny should sign Parise and Suter and keep the rest of his Cap space. Why? Because we need to have enough Cap space to sign Shea Weber as he will be a UFA by then. Also, we need to lock up Filppula and Howard to new contract extensions. Here is what we could look like after next July 1st...

CAPGEEK.COM USER GENERATED ROSTER
My Custom Lineup
FORWARDS
Zach Parise ($7.000m) / Pavel Datsyuk ($6.700m) / Gustav Nyquist ($0.875m)
Valtteri Filppula ($3.000m) / Henrik Zetterberg ($6.083m) / Johan Franzen ($3.955m)
Danny Cleary ($2.800m) / Darren Helm ($1.500m) / Todd Bertuzzi ($2.075m)
Drew Miller ($0.838m) / Justin Abdelkader ($1.250m) / Patrick Eaves ($1.200m)
Jan Mursak ($0.550m) / Tomas Tatar ($0.840m) /
DEFENSEMEN
Ryan Suter ($7.000m) / Shea Weber ($8.000m)
Niklas Kronwall ($4.750m) / Kyle Quincey ($3.250m)
Jonathan Ericsson ($3.250m) / Brendan Smith ($0.875m)
Jakub Kindl ($0.883m)
GOALTENDERS
Jimmy Howard ($2.250m)
Joey MacDonald ($0.550m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $70,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $69,473,712; BONUSES: $247,500
CAP SPACE (23-man roster): $826,288

So we need to find some room to give Jimmy around 4-5 mil a year most likely. Flip will likely come around the same numbers. So do we let Quincey and his 3 plus mil go? White will be a UFA next summer and can be replaced with Weber. Tatar will be on the team then replacing Emmerton. Does Kenny use all of his cap space this summer but only on 1 year deals? Parise and Suter will get long term deals in the 10 year range. But after that, I think Kenny should not lock in any long term deals so he can have enough room to go after Weber and factor in raises for Flip and Jimmy.

:rolleyes:

You assume way too much:

#1 The new CBA could give a much lower cap limit, so there is no way to know if the Wings will have 8 million dollars to spend on Weber.

#2 Only 4 players in the NHL make over 8 million dollars per season, 3 are three of the top forwards in the world, the other is Eric Staal (go figure). Weber getting 8 million per season is pretty far fetched.

#3 Way too much for Howard... anything over 4 million long term is an overpayment for a goaltender in the NHL. Flip may or may not be an overpayment, depends on the numbers he puts up next season.
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In Funken versunken steh ich in Flammen
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#57 Hatethedrake!

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 01:13 PM

:rolleyes:

You assume way too much:

#1 The new CBA could give a much lower cap limit, so there is no way to know if the Wings will have 8 million dollars to spend on Weber.

#2 Only 4 players in the NHL make over 8 million dollars per season, 3 are three of the top forwards in the world, the other is Eric Staal (go figure). Weber getting 8 million per season is pretty far fetched.

#3 Way too much for Howard... anything over 4 million long term is an overpayment for a goaltender in the NHL. Flip may or may not be an overpayment, depends on the numbers he puts up next season.


Assuming is essentially what the off season is for. What else are we going to do? Alot will happen between now and July 1st, 2013. I still think Kenny will give himself the option of adding Weber next summer. Suter and Parise are the priorities right now obviously. Weber will be the focus next summer assuming he is indeed available.

No one knows what the next CBA will be like. You don't know more than me or anyone else does. Howard will get more than you think because of his age and his proven track record of success. He is underpaid right now with his current salary. Ilya Bryzgalov makes 7 mil a year and plays like a back-up. I can see Howard accepting less to stay in Detroit when Kenny makes him an offer. He will get at least 4 mil a season. Flip will get at least 4 mil because this is where players of his ilk are being slotted on the pay scale.
Jordan Tootoo will wreck shop.

We need someone like Parise that can penetrate the box.-blueadams

#58 Shaman

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 01:18 PM

Assuming is essentially what the off season is for. What else are we going to do? Alot will happen between now and July 1st, 2013. I still think Kenny will give himself the option of adding Weber next summer. Suter and Parise are the priorities right now obviously. Weber will be the focus next summer assuming he is indeed available.

No one knows what the next CBA will be like. You don't know more than me or anyone else does. Howard will get more than you think because of his age and his proven track record of success. He is underpaid right now with his current salary. Ilya Bryzgalov makes 7 mil a year and plays like a back-up. I can see Howard accepting less to stay in Detroit when Kenny makes him an offer. He will get at least 4 mil a season. Flip will get at least 4 mil because this is where players of his ilk are being slotted on the pay scale.

I don't see Holland spending more that 4 million on the high end for Howard, his philosophy is not to overpay one goaltender, but to have an affordable tandem. As for Flip, its all dependent on this season, if last season was foreshadowing of whats to come, I can see 4-4.5, if he regresses this season, I could see a cap hit closer to Franzen's numbers.

As for the CBA, I may not know, but the writing on the wall seems to point to a reduction in the cap limit. If you've read what ownership/the NHL wants (like reduction in the players share of revenue) its implausible to believe the cap wont drop by as much as 15% with 7-10% being a safe bet.

As for Weber, thats simple, Nashville can't afford (financially) to lose him, I expect them to extend him for multiple years at a cap hit around 7.2 million to keep themselves near the cap floor.

Edited by Shaman464, 11 June 2012 - 01:19 PM.

Feuer und Wasser kommt nicht zusammen
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In Funken versunken steh ich in Flammen
und bin im Wasser verbrannt
Im Wasser verbrannt

#59 Hatethedrake!

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 01:24 PM

I don't see Holland spending more that 4 million on the high end for Howard, his philosophy is not to overpay one goaltender, but to have an affordable tandem. As for Flip, its all dependent on this season, if last season was foreshadowing of whats to come, I can see 4-4.5, if he regresses this season, I could see a cap hit closer to Franzen's numbers.

As for the CBA, I may not know, but the writing on the wall seems to point to a reduction in the cap limit. If you've read what ownership/the NHL wants (like reduction in the players share of revenue) its implausible to believe the cap wont drop by as much as 15% with 7-10% being a safe bet.


4 mil may be what Howard ends up getting. It is almost double his current salary. I can see Flip being moved in a trade for the right player (top 6 scoring winger) if Parise does not sign here. Franzen's cap hit is so low because it was such a long term front loaded contract. I can't see Flip being signed for 12 years. I could see him, like Howard, taking less than his perceived market value to stay in Detroit. Even though Flip had a bad playoff, he had a very good season and showed alot of progression. The Wings have invested alot of time on him and I think they will end up re-signing him.

As for the next CBA, I am not expecting any hockey until January. With Donald Fehr heading the NHLPA, things will get nasty in a hurry when little Gary doesn't get his way. Fehr will not roll over. The players gave up so much in the last deal, I am not sure they can really give up much more. Ironically, I think the deal ended up actually favouring the players moreso than it did the owners. But that is another debate for another topic.
Jordan Tootoo will wreck shop.

We need someone like Parise that can penetrate the box.-blueadams

#60 Shaman

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 01:31 PM

4 mil may be what Howard ends up getting. It is almost double his current salary. I can see Flip being moved in a trade for the right player (top 6 scoring winger) if Parise does not sign here. Franzen's cap hit is so low because it was such a long term front loaded contract. I can't see Flip being signed for 12 years. I could see him, like Howard, taking less than his perceived market value to stay in Detroit. Even though Flip had a bad playoff, he had a very good season and showed alot of progression. The Wings have invested alot of time on him and I think they will end up re-signing him.

As for the next CBA, I am not expecting any hockey until January. With Donald Fehr heading the NHLPA, things will get nasty in a hurry when little Gary doesn't get his way. Fehr will not roll over. The players gave up so much in the last deal, I am not sure they can really give up much more. Ironically, I think the deal ended up actually favouring the players moreso than it did the owners. But that is another debate for another topic.

I don't expect a lock out, that is a nuclear option neither side can afford to use. The NHL has just started to recover from the last lockout one this soon after the last one could and probably will cause the NHL to drastically decline. If there isn't a new CBA approved ASAP I can see them doing a one year extension of the current CBA just to keep a lockout from happening, but, I think they get one done and there's a reduction in the cap limit as a result.
Feuer und Wasser kommt nicht zusammen
Kann man nicht binden sind nicht verwandt
In Funken versunken steh ich in Flammen
und bin im Wasser verbrannt
Im Wasser verbrannt





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