166 replies to this topic

[centcougar07]

BTW poser...do not EVER refer to the Red Wings as WE again...Us REAL Red Wings fans would never go to another teams forum and pretend to be a fan of that team. We are Wings fans and proud, if you are not proud enough to come here as a Wild fan, then I question what kind of Wild fan you really are...

I bet Detroit "WE" win another Cup before "you" even get to the finals. And in ten years, the Wings "WE" will have at least 2 before "you" get there...and now that is something "not even close." Even if for some reason Detroit "WE" don't end up winning any in the next ten years, I guarantee neither will "you." Let alone "you" won't even make the playoffs for 10 straight years...


EDIT: and just in case you have amnesia: http://www.letsgowin...56#entry2306656

I am an NHL fan first and foremost and though I am a Red Wings fan, I'm able to look at things more objectively because I don't let bias affect my opinions. I am not blind enough to believe all is well in Red Wings territory though. Anyone with half a brain can see how uncertain the future is. Even next year could be a complete toss up at this point. So you may not like what I have to say as a fan, but that certainly doesn't mean I'm not one. And all your ridiculous statements only help to prove my point.

[centcougar07]

1. Lets see an article or something proving this or something.

2. Please tell me how Minnesota is in a better spot to win then Detroit?

3. You need to stop taking stupid pills, they are quite bad!

1. Nobody gave LA a chance at the beginning of the year when they were struggling. If you need proof, google it. You're a big boy now, I'm sure you can find it all by yourself.

2. Well, it starts at the bottom. Better prospects. 6 or 7 of which will be turning pro this season. Then you look at the core group. There aren't any real superstars yet they still managed to lead the league in points for a 1/3 of the year. In the end, injuries killed their top 6 and they had no depth and could not recover. If you take the injuries out of the equation, maybe the Wild could have been a playoff team I don't know. Then you look at Detroit. Average prospects. 2 or 3 might turn into something but certainly won't be the caliber of a Datsyuk, Zetterberg or Lidstrom. Even if everything goes right with the prospects we currently have, we're still looking at a bunch of players who couldn't come close to standing up to the superstars that we have now. 3 straight years of early playoff exits, a core group with only 1 player under the age of 30, no 1st round pick this year, no Lidstrom. We're on a path right now where things are only going to get worse in Detroit if major changes aren't made starting with the young talent. Meanwhile, Minnesota has top prospects, a good YOUNG core and money to spend in free agency just like us. All signs point to a changing of the guard and we need to do everything we can to start lessening the blow that will be losing Datsyuk and Zetterberg in a few years.

... yeah, throwing quotes around certain nouns isn't strengthening your argument. You keep going on and on about how the red wings are on decline and you make it sound like they are going to finish bottom of the league next season. Everyone here will admit that the wings haven't been as dominant the last couple years as we would have liked, yet we still have some rather impressive stats going for this team which someone like Parise would probably take into account.
You say the Wild are on the upswing. I do not believe you. Since their inception the Wild have made the playoffs 3 times. this season will mark the 5th year since they had a post-season appearance. The Wild have not had a 100 point or higher season in 6 years. I do not see improvement over the years with the Wild, I see stagnation. They had one player over 50 points last season. The red wings had 5 players at 50 points or higher, one of which was Jiri Hudler. Jiri... Hudler. The red wings have not had a double digit finish since 98-99. The red wings are coming off a season where they set the new record for consecutive home wins. The wings have not missed the post season since 1990.

If the wild's prospect pool is so deep and so much better that what we have in grand rapids, then the wild need to start bringing these young phenoms up the the big leagues because quite frankly, the Wild need more help then Parise can give them.

I'm not sure you understand the meaning of upswing. Minnesota has built from the ground up doing a full rebuild in 3 years total and now have one of the most talented and deepest prospect pools in the NHL. Those prospects will be turning pro THIS year. Like it or not, that's how championships are won, from the ground up.

You also conveniently left out at the injuries they had. Dany Heatley was the only forward who played all 82 games and he did so on an injured knee. I could go on but it's evident that you think history is the end all be all of the NHL.

[number9]

2. Then you look at Detroit. Average prospects. 2 or 3 might turn into something but certainly won't be the caliber of a Datsyuk, Zetterberg or Lidstrom. Even if everything goes right with the prospects we currently have, we're still looking at a bunch of players who couldn't come close to standing up to the superstars that we have now. 3 straight years of early playoff exits, a core group with only 1 player under the age of 30, no 1st round pick this year, no Lidstrom.

1. Detroit's prospect pool > Minnesota's prospect pool
2. None of Minnesota's prospects will be the caliber of Datsyuk, Zetterberg, or Lidstrom
3. 4 straight years of not making the playoffs

[FlashyG]

If Holmstrom isn't resigned the difference in average age between the Wild and the Wings is less than half a year.

Wild 27,2
Wings 27.6

Also in Hockey's Future's rankings of prospects the Wings are rated #15, the Wild #17.

Anything else you want to make up to support your argument?

[Autika]

1. Nobody gave LA a chance at the beginning of the year when they were struggling. If you need proof, google it. You're a big boy now, I'm sure you can find it all by yourself.

2. Well, it starts at the bottom. Better prospects. 6 or 7 of which will be turning pro this season. Then you look at the core group. There aren't any real superstars yet they still managed to lead the league in points for a 1/3 of the year. In the end, injuries killed their top 6 and they had no depth and could not recover. If you take the injuries out of the equation, maybe the Wild could have been a playoff team I don't know. Then you look at Detroit. Average prospects. 2 or 3 might turn into something but certainly won't be the caliber of a Datsyuk, Zetterberg or Lidstrom. Even if everything goes right with the prospects we currently have, we're still looking at a bunch of players who couldn't come close to standing up to the superstars that we have now. 3 straight years of early playoff exits, a core group with only 1 player under the age of 30, no 1st round pick this year, no Lidstrom. We're on a path right now where things are only going to get worse in Detroit if major changes aren't made starting with the young talent.  Meanwhile, Minnesota has top prospects, a good YOUNG core and money to spend in free agency just like us. All signs point to a changing of the guard and we need to do everything we can to start lessening the blow that will be losing Datsyuk and Zetterberg in a few years.



I'm not sure you understand the meaning of upswing. Minnesota has built from the ground up doing a full rebuild in 3 years total and now have one of the most talented and deepest prospect pools in the NHL. Those prospects will be turning pro THIS year. Like it or not, that's how championships are won, from the ground up.

You also conveniently left out at the injuries they had. Dany Heatley was the only forward who played all 82 games and he did so on an injured knee. I could go on but it's evident that you think history is the end all be all of the NHL.

Oh, so injuries were your problem? I thought only old players like the red wings got hurt and that's why we are declining! The Wild have 3 players over the age of 30, so what were all these injuries that destroying your teams production? And for the record, you had Heatley AND Brodziak play the entire regular season, The Red Wings had 1 forward and 1 D man play every game, Z and Kronwall. And lets for a moment pretend that you are right and the injuries to your players, who have an average age of 27 so they should be bouncing back from their injuries much quicker than a team like the red wings should, was the real reason the wild crapped the bed again this season. Are you telling me that there is so much depth on that team, this up and coming power house which is going to knock detroit from it's lofty perch, that they finished dead last in the entire league in goals for?  And I'm a little tired of typing this all out, so I'll let Rafiki cover my final bit.

[LeftWinger]

I am an NHL fan first and foremost and though I am a Red Wings fan, I'm able to look at things more objectively because I don't let bias affect my opinions. I am not blind enough to believe all is well in Red Wings territory though. Anyone with half a brain can see how uncertain the future is. Even next year could be a complete toss up at this point. So you may not like what I have to say as a fan, but that certainly doesn't mean I'm not one. And all your ridiculous statements only help to prove my point.

Not that it matters to me or us if you are a Wild fan or not...we enjoy and encourage fans from other teams to come in and be part of the North America's best fan forum, but this link here seems to tell a different tale than you are telling us....

http://fans.wild.nhl.com/community/user/432251-centcougar07/

...sure are a whole lot of "We" comments referring to the Wild on this forum. Awesome! That is great! You are very welcome here, just don't try to prentend you are something that you are not...


...anyway, that being said, congrats on Harding re-signing. He realized that there really are no starting jobs out there and didn't want to move. Wish he had come here, but oh well. I just hope Parise comes this way instead of that way...if not, Wings will be fine, there are other options out there...Rick Nash, Bobby Ryan...Holland will not let this team do anything but get better than last season! (just say no to Hudler/Quincey)


note: Sorry, that was my obligatory mention of my anti-Hudler/Quincey stance...

I'd post about centcougar being a fraud but I've had enough posts about it already deleted. Before this one gets deleted as well, just let me say that centcougar is a fraud.

I will quote you on that! He should realize, he is welcome here as a Wild fan...it what makes our forum great!

[xtrememachine1]

Not that it matters to me or us if you are a Wild fan or not...we enjoy and encourage fans from other teams to come in and be part of the North America's best fan forum, but this link here seems to tell a different tale than you are telling us....

http://fans.wild.nhl.com/community/user/432251-centcougar07/

...sure are a whole lot of "We" comments referring to the Wild on this forum. Awesome! That is great! You are very welcome here, just don't try to prentend you are something that you are not...

LMAO!!

He should realize, he is welcome here as a Wild fan...it what makes our forum great!

Yeah, absolutely. Plenty of fans from other teams on this board. We talk about the Wings more, of course, but plenty of hockey talk in general.

Edited by xtrememachine1, 20 June 2012 - 10:23 AM.

[Hockey13Playa]

1. Nobody gave LA a chance at the beginning of the year when they were struggling. If you need proof, google it. You're a big boy now, I'm sure you can find it all by yourself.

2. Well, it starts at the bottom. Better prospects. 6 or 7 of which will be turning pro this season. Then you look at the core group. There aren't any real superstars yet they still managed to lead the league in points for a 1/3 of the year. In the end, injuries killed their top 6 and they had no depth and could not recover. If you take the injuries out of the equation, maybe the Wild could have been a playoff team I don't know. Then you look at Detroit. Average prospects. 2 or 3 might turn into something but certainly won't be the caliber of a Datsyuk, Zetterberg or Lidstrom. Even if everything goes right with the prospects we currently have, we're still looking at a bunch of players who couldn't come close to standing up to the superstars that we have now. 3 straight years of early playoff exits, a core group with only 1 player under the age of 30, no 1st round pick this year, no Lidstrom. We're on a path right now where things are only going to get worse in Detroit if major changes aren't made starting with the young talent. Meanwhile, Minnesota has top prospects, a good YOUNG core and money to spend in free agency just like us. All signs point to a changing of the guard and we need to do everything we can to start lessening the blow that will be losing Datsyuk and Zetterberg in a few years.

1. Never said I wasn't a big boy but LA is in a TOTALLY different stratosphere then the garbage Wild are. People never wrote LA off from the beginning of the season either. Maybe after mid season when they were looking outside in everyone started to question them, but to compare there situation with the wild is ludicrous.

2. What did I tell you about those stupid pills? You must of upped your dosage last night. I almost stopped reading after the underlined/bolded part above. You just got done saying Minnesota has the deepest prospect poll and so many "above average guys" then why on God's green earth when some of the top 6 were injured didn't they call up/sign some of this "world class" talent? I like how you call the wild prospects superstars when they haven't even played in the NHL, dude you aren't a "NHL fan first and foremost" you are just DUMB. And 3 early playoff exists doesn't really do justice for your argument. Look at the three seasons before then and its a whooooole different game. Please tell me how the WIld are doing with playoff success? You got Dany f***in Heatly bro, the holy grail, yeah man! We don't need first round picks, you ever wonder why we are so good? Look at our drafts dude. We own! Just to help out my case here take a look a the 2002 NHL draft:

Jiri Hudler- 58th, Tomas Fleischmann- 63rd, Valterri Filppula- 95th, Derek Meech, Jonathan Ericsson- 291st. That is just in one year, all those players are NHL players and none in the first round, Hudler was 2 picks away from being a 3rd rounder. Ericsson was the last pick in the entire draft. Now I am not saying all those guys are "superstars" like you like to throw around so loosely but they are al NHL regulars, and Filppula the best of the bunch. Now mind you this is ONE draft, I can go on an on about gems we take in later rounds. So that first round pick you mention doesn't mean **** all. Yeah yeah yeah things are going to get worse in Detroit, just like everyone thought when Yzerman was gone, and Shanahan. The world was over and Detroit would be outside looking in. All those old guys suck!!! Well how's 21 straight years off playoff hockey sound? Pretty good, we'll be fine. Detroit is one of the best run organizations in the league, if not the best. And you think Parise is going to Minnesota because they will "offer the most money without a doubt" then you are flippin' crazy because there is no way in hell he wants to sign a long term contract with a team that is not on the uprise. So go back and get your facts straight, look up the definition of NHL superstar, does some research on Red Wings drafting, lay of those stupid pills, come down off cloud 9, and then MAYBE you will understand a little bit more with what's going on!

[Hatethedrake!]

Since Harding re-signed with Minny, what does everyone thnk of Al Montoya as a back up goalie?
CAPGEEK.COM USER GENERATED ROSTER
My Custom Lineup
FORWARDS
Zach Parise ($7.500m) / Pavel Datsyuk ($6.700m) / Gustav Nyquist ($0.875m)
Valtteri Filppula ($3.000m) / Henrik Zetterberg ($6.083m) / Johan Franzen($3.955m)
Danny Cleary ($2.800m) / Darren Helm ($2.125m) / Todd Bertuzzi ($2.075m)
Brandon Prust ($2.000m) / Justin Abdelkader ($1.500m) / Patrick Eaves ($1.200m)
Drew Miller ($0.838m) / Jan Mursak ($0.550m)
DEFENSEMEN
Niklas Kronwall ($4.750m) / Ryan Suter ($7.500m)
Ian White ($2.875m) / Kyle Quincey ($3.250m)
Brendan Smith ($0.875m) / Jonathan Ericsson ($3.250m)
Jakub Kindl ($0.883m)
GOALTENDERS
Jimmy Howard ($2.250m)
Al Montoya ($1.500m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS(follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiledwithout the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP:$70,300,000; CAPPAYROLL: $68,333,712; BONUSES:$37,500
CAP SPACE (23-manroster): $1,966,288

Edited by Hatethedrake!, 20 June 2012 - 11:44 AM.

[vladdy16]

There's so much off topic conversation going on in here my choices are to remove the entire thread or just ask everyone to get back to the topic at hand, please. Any more discussion about fandom should be taken to PMs. Thanks!

[rick zombo]

Since Harding re-signed with Minny, what does everyone thnk of Al Monotoya as a back up goalie?

CAPGEEK.COM USER GENERATED ROSTER
My Custom Lineup
FORWARDS
Zach Parise ($7.500m) / Pavel Datsyuk ($6.700m) / Gustav Nyquist ($0.875m)
Valtteri Filppula ($3.000m) / Henrik Zetterberg ($6.083m) / Johan Franzen($3.955m)
Danny Cleary ($2.800m) / Darren Helm ($2.125m) / Todd Bertuzzi ($2.075m)
Brandon Prust ($2.000m) / Justin Abdelkader ($1.500m) / Patrick Eaves ($1.200m)
Drew Miller ($0.838m) / Jan Mursak ($0.550m)
DEFENSEMEN
Niklas Kronwall ($4.750m) / Ryan Suter ($7.500m)
Ian White ($2.875m) / Kyle Quincey ($3.250m)
Brendan Smith ($0.875m) / Jonathan Ericsson ($3.250m)
Jakub Kindl ($0.883m)
GOALTENDERS
Jimmy Howard ($2.250m)
Al Montoya ($1.500m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS(follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiledwithout the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP:$70,300,000; CAPPAYROLL: $68,333,712; BONUSES:$37,500
CAP SPACE (23-manroster): $1,966,288

I've thought about Montoya. He'd be a low-risk, high-reward type. In the Dan Cleary vein. I bet he'd come cheaper than 1.5 M considering his salary and his numbers last year.

[evilzyme]

Noooo don't delete!!! This thread has turned into a beauty, especially since you can only talk about parise so much til july 1st. Parise talk got dull then this thread turned for the better! Plus, it's not like its not hockey talk and still deals with minn and the wings for parise ultimately

[Hatethedrake!]

I've thought about Montoya. He'd be a low-risk, high-reward type. In the Dan Cleary vein. I bet he'd come cheaper than 1.5 M considering his salary and his numbers last year.

I am basing my 1.5 estimate on Harding's 1.9. I haven't seen much of the Isles but it seems Montoya has played well enough to be considered. Roloson would be a good choice but he is old. He would have to take a massive paycut as he was making around 3.5.

[Hockey13Playa]

I am basing my 1.5 estimate on Harding's 1.9. I haven't seen much of the Isles but it seems Montoya has played well enough to be considered. Roloson would be a good choice but he is old. He would have to take a massive paycut as he was making around 3.5.

Roloson? Yikes, like you mean DWAYNE ROLOSON?! Lol!

Sorry but no thanks. If it came to him or what we got, I'd rather stick with Joey MacDonald. Roloson is what, 42 years old now? I wouldn't want to risk signing him.

[evilzyme]

I am basing my 1.5 estimate on Harding's 1.9. I haven't seen much of the Isles but it seems Montoya has played well enough to be considered. Roloson would be a good choice but he is old. He would have to take a massive paycut as he was making around 3.5.

We know damn well Hasek would be our backup before rolo. Besides the fail of defense tampa bay had to deal with rolo played on a big decline to me personally. Plus holland would just love hasek back but in all seriousness, didn't kenny say he wanted a youngster as the backup or am i strictly thinking of stevie here.

[Hatethedrake!]

Roloson? Yikes, like you mean DWAYNE ROLOSON?! Lol!

Sorry but no thanks. If it came to him or what we got, I'd rather stick with Joey MacDonald. Roloson is what, 42 years old now? I wouldn't want to risk signing him.

Kenny likes old goalies. Wreggett, Ranford, Conklin, Hasek, Joseph...

We know damn well Hasek would be our backup before rolo. Besides the fail of defense tampa bay had to deal with rolo played on a big decline to me personally. Plus holland would just love hasek back but in all seriousness, didn't kenny say he wanted a youngster as the backup or am i strictly thinking of stevie here.

Oh well you know I, I' I still like Hasek you know even though he retire 1 maybe 2 times or 3 or 4 you know, I, I, I, I, I, I don't know...Ok there is my Dom impersonation of the day...

I'd like a young goalie to back-up Jimmy which is why I suggested signing Montoya. I believe they were both teammates on the US Junior team which won Gold. I am still bitter about Marc Andre Fleury crapping the bed in that gold medal game for Team Canada. Jimmy was to be the starter but injured himself so Montoya got the nod in that tournament and went on to play very well. Jimmy has had the better NHL career though. I think they are both the same age.

[Hockey13Playa]

Kenny likes old goalies. Wreggett, Ranford, Conklin, Hasek, Joseph...

Yes that is true, but besides for Hasek none of those goalies were over 40 when they played for the Wings. And there is a difference between OLD and ANCIENT lol. That 40 year mark for a goalie is huge in my opinion. Most goalies have a hard time performing well and moving around with ease at that age. Hasek should have an asterisk besides his name because he is just one in a million when it comes to performing at a high level still. I wouldn't want him either though, he's a few years away from 50. I am sure we could find a better backup then him or Roloson. No disrespect to either of them though.

[Hatethedrake!]

Yes that is true, but besides for Hasek none of those goalies were over 40 when they played for the Wings. And there is a difference between OLD and ANCIENT lol. That 40 year mark for a goalie is huge in my opinion. Most goalies have a hard time performing well and moving around with ease at that age. Hasek should have an asterisk besides his name because he is just one in a million when it comes to performing at a high level still. I wouldn't want him either though, he's a few years away from 50. I am sure we could find a better backup then him or Roloson. No disrespect to either of them though.

Yeah, Rollie will be 43 in October. Yikes.

[Z Winged Dangler]

I'm not sure you understand the meaning of upswing. Minnesota has built from the ground up doing a full rebuild in 3 years total and now have one of the most talented and deepest prospect pools in the NHL. Those prospects will be turning pro THIS year. Like it or not, that's how championships are won, from the ground up.

You also conveniently left out at the injuries they had. Dany Heatley was the only forward who played all 82 games and he did so on an injured knee. I could go on but it's evident that you think history is the end all be all of the NHL.
[/quote]
I'm not sure you understand the meaning of perennial contender which is what the Wings are. Re-tooling and being competitive EVERY year is a lot more effective than tanking for numerous years in order to stock draft picks for one eventual cup run, and win or lose, YOUR picks will want to head to a team like OURS to try to win a cup EVERY year that they play for the team. NHL13 has a special stanley cup edition with the winner of the cup for the past 22 years in it....in those past 22 years, the Wings have 4 stanley cup championships, pens and devils 3, wild = 0. There's your recipe for success junior. Watch hockey for a few more years and take notes. Some of us have been around for a lot longer and know a little more about the game and how the systems work.

Enjoy the Minnesota Wild Fan Board. Later.

[Hatethedrake!]

Ok so now I have made some changes to my line-up. Kenny can sell these 5 UFAs on winning a Cup and to take less on their cap hits to make it happen. I know not many of you guys will like Nyquist not having a spot in the line-up. However I am going by what Kenny said recently...Smith IS on the team but Nyquist has to earn his way into the line-up. I got rid of Emmerton and Mursak. Sorry LWer I still have Quincey in there. So I have Parise and Suter adhering to the all new PAVEL DATSYUK SALARY CAP. All 3 can have cap hits of 6.7 mil a season. If we get both Suter and Parise, I am thinking Kenny will sign them both to long term deals in the 10+ year range to lower the Cap hit. Both will have front loaded deals most likely. I like the idea of adding BOTH Parise and Semin to our top 6. Talk about firepower! I think Dats can turn Semin's game around. He is only 2 years removed from being an elite level sniper plus he is a right handed shot which we desperately need. Being only 27, I would take a chance on the guy for a 1 or 2 year deal. I think he would be willing to take a 1.7 mil a season paycut to play in Detroit. Especially with Dats being here to make him a better player. These lines would be an absolute nightmare for other teams to match up against. Kenny can sell Prust and Montoya on lesser deals as well hopefully. Maybe Nyquist earns his way into the line-up. With Bert's age and bad back, Gus could find his way onto the 3rd line with Helm and Cleary. I just don't like the idea of handing a 1st line winger spot to a rookie like Nyquist. I like this kid and believe he has a bright future. But like Kenny says, he has to earn his way into the line-up. Anyway, can Kenny make this happen? Should he? Basically my idea is that when you have a chance to add 2 elite level top 6 scoring wingers to your top 6 group of forwards then you should do everything you can to do it. With Nick being gone, we MUST score more goals to win. We can still be defensively sound but we all know the huge impact of losing Nick.
CAPGEEK.COM USER GENERATED ROSTER
My Custom Lineup
FORWARDS
Zach Parise ($6.700m) / Pavel Datsyuk ($6.700m) / Alexander Semin ($5.000m)
Valtteri Filppula ($3.000m) / Henrik Zetterberg ($6.083m) / Johan Franzen ($3.955m)
Danny Cleary ($2.800m) / Darren Helm ($2.125m) / Todd Bertuzzi ($2.075m)
Brandon Prust ($1.500m) / Justin Abdelkader ($1.500m) / Patrick Eaves ($1.200m)
Drew Miller ($0.838m) / Gustav Nyquist ($0.875m)
DEFENSEMEN
Ryan Suter ($6.700m) / Niklas Kronwall ($4.750m)
Ian White ($2.875m) / Kyle Quincey ($3.000m)
Brendan Smith ($0.875m) / Jonathan Ericsson ($3.250m)
Jakub Kindl ($0.883m)
GOALTENDERS
Jimmy Howard ($2.250m)
Al Montoya ($1.000m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $70,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $69,933,712; BONUSES: $37,500
CAP SPACE (23-man roster): $366,288