166 replies to this topic

[FlashyG]

For the same money most players would chose to go to Pittsburgh over Detroit, Pittsburgh is younger and they have Malkin and Crosby, the future doesn't look so good for Detroit.

According to the player polls on where they'd rather play that's not true.

Admittedly that's a very small sample size, but I've never seen the Pens ranked higher than the Wings in any of the polls that have been done.

Also the Penguins may have freed up some space but they still have roughly 10 million less than the Wings and they have almost all of their best players looking for raises over the next 2 or 3 years. That will hurt their ability to offer long term deals without them taking some kind of discount to play there.

I'm not saying the Wings are the favorite to land both the prime FA's this summer but in Suter's case especially I think the Wings are in better position than Pittsburgh. Parise might be a different story though.

[StormJH1]

Didnt read the 7 pages of this thread, but I live in MN and they've been all over Parise all year. A lot of people even feel it's more likely than not he signs here (and if that happens, Suter too). I can't see it. Hometown connection is nice and all but this guy was two games away from the Cup. The Wild are stockpiling young talent, but they're still years away. Parise has to commit to a franchise for probably 8 or 10 years in this deal - he needs certainty that things are run well, plus the chance to compete in his prime.

[ozone923]

For the same money most players would chose to go to Pittsburgh over Detroit, Pittsburgh is younger and they have Malkin and Crosby, the future doesn't look so good for Detroit.

I thought the salary cap was created for parity? This is becoming a parody.

Parise, Crosby, Malkin, Suter, Letang,

That’s not right.

The thing is guys... that the rest of the team (Pittsburgh) suffers for the next 10-15 years. As we have begun to see over the past few years, cup-winners are well-balanced. Even if Pits signs both to long-term deals, that means their bottom six and bottom defence will be 500k cap-hit newbies. Balanced teams will continue to win I believe, so it just doesn't make sense if I'm Parise and Suter. They can only play the top two lines so much. With 14 mil in space, Pitts literally has zero cash for re-ups of current players like Letang (who is clearly worth more than what he's being paid now) and has zero cash for elite grinders (like our 2mil a year Helm signing). The only way I see them getting both is if they dump Martin somehow. Otherwise I see this purely as a pitch to either Parise or Suter and not both. I honestly don't believe Shero is that greedy and stupid to go after both.

P.S. does it factor in at all that Pittsburgh's team of kids is exactly that? KIDS? We all saw how childish and ridiculous they looked in the first round against equally childish Philly. That stains their reputation. The wings are known as a CLASS ACT organization regardless of how many years are between Datsyuk and Crosby. Parise and Suter seem like the type of guys who want class, not a talented circus.

[Z Winged Dangler]

The thing is guys... that the rest of the team (Pittsburgh) suffers for the next 10-15 years. As we have begun to see over the past few years, cup-winners are well-balanced. Even if Pits signs both to long-term deals, that means their bottom six and bottom defence will be 500k cap-hit newbies. Balanced teams will continue to win I believe, so it just doesn't make sense if I'm Parise and Suter. They can only play the top two lines so much. With 14 mil in space, Pitts literally has zero cash for re-ups of current players like Letang (who is clearly worth more than what he's being paid now) and has zero cash for elite grinders (like our 2mil a year Helm signing). The only way I see them getting both is if they dump Martin somehow. Otherwise I see this purely as a pitch to either Parise or Suter and not both. I honestly don't believe Shero is that greedy and stupid to go after both.

P.S. does it factor in at all that Pittsburgh's team of kids is exactly that? KIDS? We all saw how childish and ridiculous they looked in the first round against equally childish Philly. That stains their reputation. The wings are known as a CLASS ACT organization regardless of how many years are between Datsyuk and Crosby. Parise and Suter seem like the type of guys who want class, not a talented circus.

Well said. I'd rather be on a team that worries about hockey and not the other bulls***. The amount of talent the Penguins have went right out the window in the 1st round aside from guys like Staal, and he's gone now. Even James Neal was playing like a huge **** with an attitude problem.

[Hatethedrake!]

We didn't really think there would be no major competition for Suter and Parise did we? All Kenny can do is make very good offers. It comes down to which teams they want to sign with. Teams like Minny will be offering the league max but it doesn't mean Suter and Parise will sign there. I still think the Wings are the favourites for both players.

[Dabura]

How do you figure? I'm extremely discouraged by this cap clearing stuff Pittsburgh is up to. Datsyuk and Zetterberg will be 34 and 32 this season. Crosby and Malkin will be 25 and 26 are a better pair of players comparing them as pairs. Crosby and Parise are friends, from his perspective it seems like a no brainer considering the length of time you're virtually guaranteed to be a contender.

Well, for starters, the Pens don't have their s*** together. They had a complete and utter meltdown against the Flyers. They were dismantled, exposed. They were obliterated. So now they're gonna run out and get 2-3 defensively sound superstars to fix their problems - instead of what they should do, which is learn to play some f****** defense (and tell MAF his job is on the line this season). Parise would be the new J. Staal - the third-fiddle workhorse who allows the offensive magic to happen in the regular season without Cwosby and Mawkin having to play any defense.

Crosby and Malkin may be the two biggest names in the league - but I like to think Parise's a little smarter than that.

Edited by Dabura, 25 June 2012 - 10:50 AM.

[LeftWinger]

Kenny will have just as much cash to offer both of them...I know you guys are convinced that Z will be the C, but hear me out, if that C is something Kenny has to dangle in front of Suter or Parise in order to have a trump on everyone else, then so be it. In this knock down drag out fight called UFA, you have to make your offer the most attractive to the player...Pit can offer the max, Minny can offer the max, a lot of teams can offer the max, Detroit can offer the max...but Detroit also has a vacant C they can offer...

I know you guys have said the C needs to be earned, but you cannot tell me these guys haven't earned a C in all their years in the NHL. Holland and Babcock respect these guy to the nth degree (along with Z) and I am sure they would not hesitate to put that C on one of them if that were the deciding factor between $8M in Pit and $8M in Detroit... I am sure Z wouldn't mind either, if it meant landing these guys and winning multiple Cups for the remainder of his contract...when it comes down to everyone being able to offer the same amount of cash, it's all about presenting the most attractive package.

[ozone923]

Well, for starters, the Pens don't have their s*** together. They had a complete and utter meltdown against the Flyers. They were dismantled, exposed. They were obliterated. So now they're gonna run out and get 2-3 defensively sound superstars to fix their problems - instead of what they should do, which is learn to play some f****** defense (and tell MAF his job is on the line this season). Parise would be the new J. Staal - the third-fiddle workhorse who allows the offensive magic to happen in the regular season without Cwosby an Mawkin having to play any defense.

Crosby and Malkin may be the two biggest names in the league - but I like to think Parise's a little smarter than that.

100% agree ^^^

And LeftWinger, I really don't think dangling a C is something we should or would do. Theres a system of beliefs that goes with being a part of the Red Wing organization and it means you work your ass of and you reap the rewards. Dangling a C is a sickening (IMO) disrespect to Zetterberg first of all, and second... I really truly don't believe Parise and Suter are the types of guys that would see dangling a C as a good pitch. Put yourself in Parise's shoes for example. Epic dynasty Detroit dangles a C at you to get you to sign... I see that as desperate and unlike the organization they have been for the past 21 years. Just my 2 cents on that.

Edited by ozone923, 25 June 2012 - 10:33 AM.

[FlashyG]

I think dangling a C at them just adds to the pressure they'd have on them, especially in Suter's case since he'll already have the pressure of trying to fill Lidstrom's shoes.

I think Detroits biggest selling point is our consistency and our reputation for how well we treat our players. As much as its been said that Parise and Suter might prefer playing with players closer to their age, it should also be pointed out that if they indeed want to finish their careers where they sign, having a roster full of vets who openly state they'd retire before playing anywhere else has to be a ringing endorsement for the Wings system.

[Hatethedrake!]

I recall the Wings giving Shanahan an "A" in his first game with the Wings. However, you earn your way with the Wings. As much as I like Parise and Suter, Z will be the captain and Dats will still be one of the alternates. Maybe Parise gets that oher "A", I don't know. We need to wait until Parise and Suter are signed before we think of this anyway.

[Drake_Marcus]

So to free up cash to take runs at the two top free agents of the 2012 offseason the Penguins traded dumped their top signing from the 2010 offseason (Michalek signed a 5 year deal with the Pens on July 1st, 2010 only to be dumped on his ass back with the team he ran away from two years ago) and are rumoured to be shopping their other top offseason aquistion from that same offseason (Martin signed a 5 year deal with the Pens on July 1st, 2010).

What does that say to free agents who want to sign with Pitts? Michalek and Martin were the top defensive UFAs two years ago and now they're being tossed aside for the next hot thing with 3 years remaining on their respective deals... Players definitely notice that sort of behaviour.

[Hey man nice shot!]

Kenny will have just as much cash to offer both of them...I know you guys are convinced that Z will be the C, but hear me out, if that C is something Kenny has to dangle in front of Suter or Parise in order to have a trump on everyone else, then so be it. In this knock down drag out fight called UFA, you have to make your offer the most attractive to the player...Pit can offer the max, Minny can offer the max, a lot of teams can offer the max, Detroit can offer the max...but Detroit also has a vacant C they can offer...

I know you guys have said the C needs to be earned, but you cannot tell me these guys haven't earned a C in all their years in the NHL. Holland and Babcock respect these guy to the nth degree (along with Z) and I am sure they would not hesitate to put that C on one of them if that were the deciding factor between $8M in Pit and $8M in Detroit... I am sure Z wouldn't mind either, if it meant landing these guys and winning multiple Cups for the remainder of his contract...when it comes down to everyone being able to offer the same amount of cash, it's all about presenting the most attractive package.

As much as i would like to have either with them we are known for our traditions and thats what makes this team attractive. Leave our traditions and all we get is players seeking money and ignoring what makes us the Detroit Redwings.Hank will be capt reguardless of who walks into the dressingroom this fall.

Edited by Hey man nice shot!, 25 June 2012 - 01:44 PM.

[Drake_Marcus]

edit: wrong thread

Edited by Drake_Marcus, 25 June 2012 - 01:56 PM.

[Z Winged Dangler]

So to free up cash to take runs at the two top free agents of the 2012 offseason the Penguins traded dumped their top signing from the 2010 offseason (Michalek signed a 5 year deal with the Pens on July 1st, 2010 only to be dumped on his ass back with the team he ran away from two years ago) and are rumoured to be shopping their other top offseason aquistion from that same offseason (Martin signed a 5 year deal with the Pens on July 1st, 2010).

What does that say to free agents who want to sign with Pitts? Michalek and Martin were the top defensive UFAs two years ago and now they're being tossed aside for the next hot thing with 3 years remaining on their respective deals... Players definitely notice that sort of behaviour.

I didn't notice that the Pens did that with Michalek. Hopefully Parise and Suter see this and decide to go to a team like the Wings that signs and actually keeps guys.

[LeftWinger]

Drake has a great point...this is why I argued with centcougertownyahoo that Detroit is a place where players sign and more times than not end their careers here... The pens fans like to make fun of living in Detroit, but I guess they don't realize that where the players live is actually one of the richest counties in America.

Ya, I guess those two guys were the flavor of the week in Pit.. I am glad Staal realized what type of crap organization this was and decided not to accept that 10 year offer...Wonder is Cindy is going to have the balls to flip the bird at that mickey mouse organization one day? (no offense meant to New Jersey with that comment)


EDIT:speaking cougar, wonder where he went?

Edited by LeftWinger, 25 June 2012 - 04:30 PM.

[Hockey13Playa]

Drake has a great point...this is why I argued with centcougertownyahoo that Detroit is a place where players sign and more times than not end their careers here... The pens fans like to make fun of living in Detroit, but I guess they don't realize that where the players live is actually one of the richest counties in America.

Ya, I guess those two guys were the flavor of the week in Pit.. I am glad Staal realized what type of crap organization this was and decided not to accept that 10 year offer...Wonder is Cindy is going to have the balls to flip the bird at that mickey mouse organization one day? (no offense meant to New Jersey with that comment)


EDIT:speaking cougar, wonder where he went?

I thought I read/heard/saw something about Crosby's favorite team growing up was Montreal. I could see him going there if he was to leave Pittsburgh. But I think the kid will be a lifer in steel city.

[diehardredwing19]

this should keep zach parise away from signing with pitts

this should keep zach parise away from signing with pitts ... ps. edit last post.

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[centcougar07]

This isn't news.. This is someone speculating. People around here keep saying we're going to get both parise and suter.. Doesn't mean it's gunna happen. But I think if there's any team that gets both of them, it's the wings.

Michael Russo of the Star-Tribune: "The Wild have more than $20 million in salary cap space and will be targeting "NHL talent." The Wild are desperate for scoring and are expected to offer Zach Parise as much as $8-9 million a year."

I doubt 8-9 even gets him to go to the wild.. I dont even kno why the wild even think they have a chance at landing parise.

Gee Mr, Russo, seems like that is a cookie cutter headline if I ever read one! <insert team and $$$$$ under the cap here>

The difference is Mr. Russo of the Star Tribune, the Red Wings are looking to get back to the Cup final and Parise will help them do that. You have no one to help Parise get to the final on the Wild...

BTW, where has centcougartown been? Maybe he is getting more love for his expertise on callofthewildprospectpool.com...

I'm going to laugh so hard if the Wild don't sign Parise. Seriously every hockey fan I know right now here in MN thinks the Wild are signing Parise. We shall see...

Drake has a great point...this is why I argued with centcougertownyahoo that Detroit is a place where players sign and more times than not end their careers here... The pens fans like to make fun of living in Detroit, but I guess they don't realize that where the players live is actually one of the richest counties in America.

Ya, I guess those two guys were the flavor of the week in Pit.. I am glad Staal realized what type of crap organization this was and decided not to accept that 10 year offer...Wonder is Cindy is going to have the balls to flip the bird at that mickey mouse organization one day? (no offense meant to New Jersey with that comment)


EDIT:speaking cougar, wonder where he went?

I'm right here bud, come at me!

Everybody doubted that this would happen. Now all of a sudden the Wild's roster looks a LOT better than the Wings roster. I have to say, I told you so.

Going to be interesting to see how this year shakes down and how the Wings find answers for their many questions.

[VM1138]

I'm right here bud, come at me!

Everybody doubted that this would happen. Now all of a sudden the Wild's roster looks a LOT better than the Wings roster. I have to say, I told you so.

Going to be interesting to see how this year shakes down and how the Wings find answers for their many questions.

No, now the Minnesota roster looks almost like an NHL roster. It's still a bad, bad roster, even with Parise and Suter on it. I agree though that the Wings will have to get creative this year and it's going to be an interesting off season.

[LeftWinger]

I'm right here bud, come at me!

Everybody doubted that this would happen. Now all of a sudden the Wild's roster looks a LOT better than the Wings roster. I have to say, I told you so.

Going to be interesting to see how this year shakes down and how the Wings find answers for their many questions.

No need to come at you anymore...you got the UFA's...yet you only quote stuff from June...where is the stuff quoting Parise when he said if it weren't for family he'd be back in NJ....sounds like he only chose minny for family... oh and right from Suter's lips he was going to pick Detroit but was talked into Minny by family and Boy George. Sounds like he only chose minny for family.

I cannot argue family ties...and if they both had family in Seattle, they'd be in Vancouver right now...you got them, congrats, but don't think you won because of the Wild's stellar history or future. Detroit, Pitt, Chicago, Philly are all better places to play if you want to win on a consistent basis. The Wild have a 3 year window to win now..if they don't, it will be rebuild again and then Suter will be kicking himself for listening to his in-laws and barney rubble... For you sake, I hope you get that Cup in that window...then you can happily and deservedly come in here and gloat...but gloating because the Wild just happen to be in St. Paul and you got these two by default, doesn't win you anything...except the fact that you did say long ago that you felt they would go home to play...but if they chose Detroit, we'd have been right, if they chose Pit, they would have been right...someone was going to be right and 29 other were going to be wrong...

Don't just pick and chose things to make yourself look smarter than what you are...be humble enough to admit, you only got them because of family, if it weren't for that, they wouldn't be there...they didn't pick you because you are their best chance to win consistently...so get over yourself. And no, I am not sour grapes, would've loved to have Suter, but cannot fight family ties...I feel good that he was coming here, but went with family...too bad choosing family will pretty much guarantee never winning a Cup.