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If we fail to reload with top UFAs we should?


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#21 LeftWinger

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Posted 17 June 2012 - 03:45 PM

No matter the back up plan, he cannot include Hudler or Quincey. Hudler will garner way too much money and Quincey is worth more letting someone else sign him and getting the draft picks than what he brings to the Wings. I'd rather give Nyquist, Hudler's ice-time and re-tool the D entirely before overpaying Quincey, who at $3.125 he made last year was over-payment on this team. On the market, Hudler may be worth $5M and Quincey $4M, but not here. Let them go...We already are over-paying Ericsson for hopes he grows into his contract...

I'd rather go for Schultz (also would like to see where it is said he will only play for a Canadian team) and another proven player like Wideman or Carle than overpay Quincey...

Kronwall - White
Ericsson - Wideman(Carle)
Smith - Schultz
Kindl(or another #7 if you trade Kindl)

Obviously I'd rather see Suter there, but I do not want to see Quincey there no matter what. You couldn't trade him to a team for a 1st/3rd so why not let him sign somewhere and get them by default? Could be a very high 1st next year!

Laugh it up, delete it all, I'll be laughing when it happens! -4/17/14

 

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#22 GMRwings1983

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Posted 17 June 2012 - 04:30 PM

Maybe we can "Create a Player".

Kinda like you do in NHL 12.
According to my profile, my reputation is excellent. LOL.

#23 Hockey13Playa

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Posted 17 June 2012 - 04:51 PM

Maybe we can "Create a Player".

Kinda like you do in NHL 12.


Alright I think that would work! How about this for the created player?

Hometown: Vasteras, Sweden

Birthday: 4/28

Height: 6'2"

Weight: 192 lbs

Favorite Number: 5

Favorite Team: Detroit Red Wings

Shoots: Left

Attributes: All 99's


Welp, problem solved on defense!

Posted Image


#24 Dimaline312000

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Posted 17 June 2012 - 06:13 PM

I'm all for going with a youth movment if we can't who we need. Parise and Suter would be great to have but you've got to realize they are going to be pursued by a lot of teams as well as the teams they are currently on. We defintely need to constantly bring up players from GR and such but it has to be at the righ time. I'm even all for trading for a player that has either gone high in recent previous drafts that could possibly come in right away and help us or trading for a 1st Round Pick this Draft and bringing them up right away. I realize that our system develops players slowly and Holland likes his players over-ripe but forgive me when I say this but Holland is Stail and his way of thinking has been great for us in the past but the League is getting younger and we to try to keep up and do what we can to stay youthful, which I believe will give us a necessary spark on our team. Haven't really looked at the Free Agent Market to know who else is a UFA but if we can't get Parise or Suter I would imagine we could get someone or make a trade, that would be the way I'd go.

#25 Icesurfer

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Posted 17 June 2012 - 06:16 PM

Wings will be able to sign quality players but that is really not the problem..... whether they sign the top free agents or not.

Everyone knows by now that defense and goaltending win championships. I hate to say it but without Lidstrom Wings will have to eventually upgrade their goaltending. Wings must now win like everyone else... with top notch goaltending. I was one of Howie's biggest supporters. Last year I was expecting Howie to improve his rebound control, but what I saw was that it actually got worse. The difference was the defense was so focused on getting to his rebounds first that they left the opposing skaters unchecked and open. You can't keep plugging holes. Either Howie improves his rebound control or Wings will have to upgrade. There is no Lidstrom to mend the mistakes and the shots will not be kept low like they have been in the past. Teams got very smart against Howie.... they learned to just throw the puck at the net and play for the rebound. So how the Wings do in 2012-2013 will not depend on which defensemen and forward they sign but rather rest on the shoulders of Jimmy Howard. And for Pete's sake spend some of that money to get a decent backup, one capable of assuming a number one role.

Edited by Icesurfer, 17 June 2012 - 06:23 PM.

Defense and goaltending win championships!!!

#26 amato

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Posted 17 June 2012 - 06:58 PM

Schultz / Canada related stuff I've seen for people who have been asking about it..




Andy Strickland via twitter: Justin Schultz is expected to sign with a Canadian team, the Maple Leafs, Canucks or Oilers. Cory Pronman via twitter: If Schultz sign with the Maple Leafs or Canucks, he’d become their best prospect. He likely wouldn’t be for the Oilers, if they draft Ryan Murray, it would be debatable.



Lance Hornby of the Toronto Sun: The Maple Leafs are expected to be one of the leading teams after Justin Schultz. Brian Burke drafted him. The Ducks may look to trade his rights before June 24th.

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#27 St. Michael (the Red Wing)

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Posted 17 June 2012 - 08:01 PM

[quote name='Johnz96' timestamp='1339964034' post='2307739']
I don't know if you can call someone who gets more ice-time than any of the Wings forwards a third liner

Why? So what if he gets more minutes than any Wings player your point is? He was the third line center on the Penguins before Crosby's concussion problems no? I don't get your point. Hence he was playing second line minutes during the playoffs and while Crosby was out. He's 24 years old and he's a stud defensively plus can he can rack up some points as well.

Best third line center in the game imo. I don't care how many minutes you play ffs. The fact is he's playing center behind Malkin and Crosby and puts up the numbers he does says a lot. Also he always seems to have a knack at usually being big against our team.

I would love to have him in the Winged Wheel jersey.

Edited by St. Michael (the Red Wing), 17 June 2012 - 08:08 PM.


#28 LeftWinger

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Posted 17 June 2012 - 09:35 PM

Schultz / Canada related stuff I've seen for people who have been asking about it..




Andy Strickland via twitter: Justin Schultz is expected to sign with a Canadian team, the Maple Leafs, Canucks or Oilers. Cory Pronman via twitter: If Schultz sign with the Maple Leafs or Canucks, he’d become their best prospect. He likely wouldn’t be for the Oilers, if they draft Ryan Murray, it would be debatable.



Lance Hornby of the Toronto Sun: The Maple Leafs are expected to be one of the leading teams after Justin Schultz. Brian Burke drafted him. The Ducks may look to trade his rights before June 24th.


I, for the life of me, cannot see why these players want to go places that they are not going to win. Edmonton? Toronto? Canucks about ready to trade their goalie who sees that Vancouver will never win...I can think of 10 other teams outside of Detroit where this kid could go and have a winning career...but whatever. He is gonna go where he wants, but he has really a 5% chance of winning a cup in his career on a Canadian team...sorry Canadian brothers, but the truth is the truth. If these guys don't ever want to win, its on them...

Why? So what if he gets more minutes than any Wings player your point is? He was the third line center on the Penguins before Crosby's concussion problems no? I don't get your point. Hence he was playing second line minutes during the playoffs and while Crosby was out. He's 24 years old and he's a stud defensively plus can he can rack up some points as well.

Best third line center in the game imo. I don't care how many minutes you play ffs. The fact is he's playing center behind Malkin and Crosby and puts up the numbers he does says a lot. Also he always seems to have a knack at usually being big against our team.

I would love to have him in the Winged Wheel jersey.

If you are referring to Jordan Staal, hell ya he would be great to have! He is about the only Pengwhine that I don't hate. I feel sorry for him being stuck on that team...

Laugh it up, delete it all, I'll be laughing when it happens! -4/17/14

 

Money on the board: $30.00 plus immunity.

 

Franzen = 0.50 PPG


#29 St. Michael (the Red Wing)

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Posted 17 June 2012 - 09:37 PM

Yes I was talking about Jordan Staal. :)

#30 LeftWinger

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Posted 17 June 2012 - 09:43 PM

Yes I was talking about Jordan Staal. :)

Totally agree, he could come in here and actually become a 2nd line center allowing Pav and Z to get back together. He is definitely out of Pit soon, if Crosby signs the $9M and with Malkin due up in a couple of years there just wont be enough cash in Pit for Mr. Staal...I don't see Holland trading for him, but if he makes UFA after this season, I can imagine he would be high on the list (along with everyone else's list) to get...

Just imagine this....Holland lands both Parise/Suter this year, gets Pav, Val, Helm and Abby re-signed for the rest of there career's and then lands Staal next year, I would say the future would be pretty set in Hockeytown for a long time!

Laugh it up, delete it all, I'll be laughing when it happens! -4/17/14

 

Money on the board: $30.00 plus immunity.

 

Franzen = 0.50 PPG


#31 St. Michael (the Red Wing)

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Posted 17 June 2012 - 09:49 PM

Totally agree, he could come in here and actually become a 2nd line center allowing Pav and Z to get back together. He is definitely out of Pit soon, if Crosby signs the $9M and with Malkin due up in a couple of years there just wont be enough cash in Pit for Mr. Staal...I don't see Holland trading for him, but if he makes UFA after this season, I can imagine he would be high on the list (along with everyone else's list) to get...

Just imagine this....Holland lands both Parise/Suter this year, gets Pav, Val, Helm and Abby re-signed for the rest of there career's and then lands Staal next year, I would say the future would be pretty set in Hockeytown for a long time!


I agree that Pit won't be able to keep him unless he takes a huge discount pending on how much Crosby signs for. But yeah I don't see Kenny trading for him and actually I don't see us getting him period. One could wish cause he's a fantastic player and still young. He's a player we need imo lol but every other team in the league covets too. I can't wait to see what all unfolds this summer.

#32 FlashyG

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Posted 18 June 2012 - 12:26 AM

No matter the back up plan, he cannot include Hudler or Quincey. Hudler will garner way too much money and Quincey is worth more letting someone else sign him and getting the draft picks than what he brings to the Wings. I'd rather give Nyquist, Hudler's ice-time and re-tool the D entirely before overpaying Quincey, who at $3.125 he made last year was over-payment on this team. On the market, Hudler may be worth $5M and Quincey $4M, but not here. Let them go...We already are over-paying Ericsson for hopes he grows into his contract...


In order to get those draft picks should someone offer sheet Quincey, we'd have to qualify him at a cost of 3.25 million, I wouldn't be surprised to see him sign that deal rather than risk arbitration.


Given that we lost 2 of our top 4 defenceman, there is no chance at all that Quincey is going to be straight let go. The only way that would happen is if he took the Wings to Arbitration and was awarded a big contract.

Also Ericsson's play in the playoffs was encouraging as far as growing into his contract is concerned, he was the best defenceman on the team, during this years very short run.

#33 Z Winged Dangler

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Posted 18 June 2012 - 08:06 AM

No matter the back up plan, he cannot include Hudler or Quincey. Hudler will garner way too much money and Quincey is worth more letting someone else sign him and getting the draft picks than what he brings to the Wings. I'd rather give Nyquist, Hudler's ice-time and re-tool the D entirely before overpaying Quincey, who at $3.125 he made last year was over-payment on this team. On the market, Hudler may be worth $5M and Quincey $4M, but not here. Let them go...We already are over-paying Ericsson for hopes he grows into his contract...

I'd rather go for Schultz (also would like to see where it is said he will only play for a Canadian team) and another proven player like Wideman or Carle than overpay Quincey...

Kronwall - White
Ericsson - Wideman(Carle)
Smith - Schultz
Kindl(or another #7 if you trade Kindl)

Obviously I'd rather see Suter there, but I do not want to see Quincey there no matter what. You couldn't trade him to a team for a 1st/3rd so why not let him sign somewhere and get them by default? Could be a very high 1st next year!

Which is something the Wings haven't had since the early 90's. If we can get a Ryan Murray/Matt Dumba type dman at next years draft, that would be quite nice.

This offseason will determine whether Ken Holland should still be employed with the Wings organization.

 

Please put Smith on the Power Play!


#34 cusimano_brothers

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Posted 18 June 2012 - 11:50 AM

This will have a meltdown.

"Mess up tomorrow, don't mess up now".

- Harry James Benson, CBE.


#35 Hatethedrake!

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Posted 18 June 2012 - 12:10 PM

Nah, I don't even want to think about it. Parise, Suter, Moen, Harding...welcome to the Red Wings! :thumbup:

CAPGEEK.COM USER GENERATED ROSTER

My Custom Lineup
FORWARDS
Zach Parise ($8.000m) / Pavel Datsyuk ($6.700m) / Gustav Nyquist ($0.875m)
Valtteri Filppula ($3.000m) / Henrik Zetterberg ($6.083m) / Johan Franzen ($3.955m)
Danny Cleary ($2.800m) / Darren Helm ($2.000m) / Todd Bertuzzi ($2.075m)
Travis Moen ($2.000m) / Justin Abdelkader ($1.500m) / Patrick Eaves ($1.200m)
Drew Miller ($0.838m) / Jan Mursak ($0.550m)
DEFENSEMEN
Niklas Kronwall ($4.750m) / Ryan Suter ($8.000m)
Ian White ($2.875m) / Kyle Quincey ($3.250m)
Brendan Smith ($0.875m) / Jonathan Ericsson ($3.250m)
Jakub Kindl ($0.883m)
GOALTENDERS
Jimmy Howard ($2.250m)
Josh Harding ($1.500m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $70,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $69,208,712; BONUSES: $37,500
CAP SPACE (23-man roster): $1,091,288


Jordan Tootoo will wreck shop.

We need someone like Parise that can penetrate the box.-blueadams

#36 LeftWinger

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Posted 18 June 2012 - 01:27 PM

Which is something the Wings haven't had since the early 90's. If we can get a Ryan Murray/Matt Dumba type dman at next years draft, that would be quite nice.

Ya, either way if Holland lets Quincey go RFA, he will probably sign somewhere for around $3.5M so that means in 2013 Holland will have TWO 1st's and TWO 3rd's...Whether or not Quincey signs with a bottom dweller or a contender, it will be nice to have those picks....could be nice trade material as well! It is because of the compensation Holland would receive is why Quincey was a good pick-up. It would not be worth the 1st round pick he gave up to re-sign him, but to get a 1st AND a 3rd back would be great!

Laugh it up, delete it all, I'll be laughing when it happens! -4/17/14

 

Money on the board: $30.00 plus immunity.

 

Franzen = 0.50 PPG


#37 LeftWinger

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Posted 18 June 2012 - 01:43 PM

In order to get those draft picks should someone offer sheet Quincey, we'd have to qualify him at a cost of 3.25 million, I wouldn't be surprised to see him sign that deal rather than risk arbitration.


Given that we lost 2 of our top 4 defenceman, there is no chance at all that Quincey is going to be straight let go. The only way that would happen is if he took the Wings to Arbitration and was awarded a big contract.

Also Ericsson's play in the playoffs was encouraging as far as growing into his contract is concerned, he was the best defenceman on the team, during this years very short run.

Because he made $3.125M last season, Holland only has to qualify him for the same $3.125M. Because he made over $1M. Holland must qualify him for that amount to keep him from becoming a UFA, I agree he could accept that offer, but we all know he is worth more on the open market, so if Holland qualified him he remains a RFA and Quincey could sign an offer sheet of from someone and Holland has 7 days to decide whether to match or recieve the compensation...


After a player has signed an offer sheet and submits the necessary paperwork, his prior club has seven days to exercise its Right to First Refusal and match the terms of the offer sheet. There can be no conditions or contingencies in the offer sheet and a player cannot be traded once an offer sheet has been signed.

If the prior club declines its Right to First Refusal, it will be entitled to draft pick compensation based on the annual annual value of the new deal. This is determined by dividing total compensation by the less of the number of years of the offer sheet, or five (this discourages long-term offer sheets in some cases).

The criteria for RFA draft pick compensation in 2011-12 is as follows:

$1,034,249 annual cap hit or less: No compensation
$1,034,249 — $1,567,043: Third-round pick
$1,567,043 — $3,134,088: Second-round pick
$3,134,088 — $4,701,131: First and third-round pick
$4,701,131 — $6,268,175: First, second and third-round pick
$6,268,175 — $7,835,219: Two first-round picks, a second and third
$7,835,219 and higher: Four first-round picks
Teams submitting offer sheets must have the necessary draft picks outlined above and the picks must be their own (cannot be from other teams). It is possible to have multiple signed offer sheets on the table at once as long as the team has the appropriate draft picks.


http://thehockeywrit...ensation-rules/

Also, it would not benefit either of them to go to arbitration...I would hope Quincey would just be a man and go somewhere else and not hold Ken Holland hostage. I am not disagreeing that he is worth more than $3.125M but since Holland is about to attempt to spend upwards of $16M on Parise/Suter, the two draft picks are more valuable. $4M to Quincey would just be wasting Cap space when he is at best a #4/#5 defender and not part of this reload. IF Quincey gets awarded too much money and it hinders our ability to properly reload, he will immediately become the next whipping boy, especially if he plays like the hot garbage he played like last season...for the money, I'd rather keep Kindl around for $800,000 than re-sign Quincey. I can think of a few Defenders who are a better value to this team than Quincey...who can be had for less...

Edited by LeftWinger, 18 June 2012 - 01:47 PM.

Laugh it up, delete it all, I'll be laughing when it happens! -4/17/14

 

Money on the board: $30.00 plus immunity.

 

Franzen = 0.50 PPG


#38 puckbags

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Posted 18 June 2012 - 02:37 PM

That's what I'd put my money on too. Suter and Semin. I don't like Semin but It's not about what I like.


I agree. Not huge on Semin's work ethic but if playing on Datsyuk's wing and getting set up all season isn't enough to give him a kick in the ass then I don't know what is.

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LGW after 1 loss is irrational, after a few in a row it becomes quite comical, 22 playoff appearances in a row and 4 cups in that time and still going strong. Relaxxxxx !!
 


#39 FlashyG

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Posted 18 June 2012 - 03:58 PM

Because he made $3.125M last season, Holland only has to qualify him for the same $3.125M. Because he made over $1M. Holland must qualify him for that amount to keep him from becoming a UFA, I agree he could accept that offer, but we all know he is worth more on the open market, so if Holland qualified him he remains a RFA and Quincey could sign an offer sheet of from someone and Holland has 7 days to decide whether to match or recieve the compensation...




http://thehockeywrit...ensation-rules/

Also, it would not benefit either of them to go to arbitration...I would hope Quincey would just be a man and go somewhere else and not hold Ken Holland hostage. I am not disagreeing that he is worth more than $3.125M but since Holland is about to attempt to spend upwards of $16M on Parise/Suter, the two draft picks are more valuable. $4M to Quincey would just be wasting Cap space when he is at best a #4/#5 defender and not part of this reload. IF Quincey gets awarded too much money and it hinders our ability to properly reload, he will immediately become the next whipping boy, especially if he plays like the hot garbage he played like last season...for the money, I'd rather keep Kindl around for $800,000 than re-sign Quincey. I can think of a few Defenders who are a better value to this team than Quincey...who can be had for less...


I used Capgeek's qualifying offer calculator so I guess they didn't follow the NHL rules correctly, but you're right on the value its 100% of last years salary not 105%.

You're using last years numbers on RFA compensation though and chances are Quincey will fall into the 2nd round pick category this year rather than the 1st and 3rd rd Picks.

Either way the odds of someone signing Quincey to an offersheet are very slim. There have only been 6 players signed to one since the salary cap came out and only 1 where the contract wasn't matched.
Quincey's options are likely to be accepting the Wings qualifying offer or take them to arbitration but its almost a certainty he'll be a Wing next year.

Edited by FlashyG, 18 June 2012 - 03:58 PM.


#40 ozone923

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Posted 18 June 2012 - 04:11 PM

PLAN B:

Semin, Carle/Wideman. DO NOT re-sign Hudler, leave that option for youth ice-time. 25 Goals easily replaced even by a lazy Semin (Huds doesn't do much else anyways, so who cares). Leave that money for a grinder and/or another defensive signing. I don't trust in Kindl.

Final team would look something like this:

Semin - Datsyuk - Franzen
Nyquist - Zetterberg - Filppula
Abby - Helm - Cleary
Miller - Emmerton - Eaves

Kronwall - Ericsson
Carle - White
Smith - Quincey

Howard, VetBackup

Still a disgusting forward setup that can compete with any in the league as long as the bottom six stay healthy (yes I said bottom six). Defensively not the best, but a real team effort can keep us up with a lot of teams, but Kronner and Ericsson will need to step up their game right away (Kronner attempting to fill a bit of the void left by Lidstrom, and Ericsson doing the same for Stuart's absence) and Smith needs to prove to the NHL why we love him.
CAPGEEK.COM USER GENERATED ROSTER
My Custom Lineup
FORWARDS
Damien Brunner ($1.350m) / Pavel Datsyuk ($6.700m) / Johan Franzen ($3.955m)
Valtteri Filppula ($3.000m) / Henrik Zetterberg ($6.083m) / Mikael Samuelsson ($3.000m)
Danny Cleary ($2.800m) / Darren Helm ($2.125m) / Todd Bertuzzi ($2.075m)
Drew Miller ($0.838m) / Justin Abdelkader ($1.200m) / Jordin Tootoo ($1.900m)
Gustav Nyquist ($0.875m)
DEFENSEMEN
Niklas Kronwall ($4.750m) / Kyle Quincey ($3.775m)
Jay Bouwmeester ($6.680m) / Ian White ($2.875m)
Jonathan Ericsson ($3.250m) / Brendan Smith ($0.875m)
Jakub Kindl ($0.883m) /
GOALTENDERS
Jimmy Howard ($2.250m)
Jonas Gustavsson ($1.500m)





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