100 replies to this topic

[Z Winged Dangler]

Some people here are seriously undervaluing Parise. The guy's a stud, a workhorse. Semin is one of the laziest players I have ever seen, and Brunner - Brunner? Seriously?

As for the topic at hand - I don't see the Pens getting either of them, honestly. But I've been wrong before....

i fully agree with the Parise assessment. He's an impact player for sure. Brunner though I personally think will be a great fit here and open up the offence a lot having a shifty, speedy right handed scorer. If we get both Brunner and Parise it opens up an option for more scoring depth lines 1-3.
Mule-Dats-Parise
Brunner-Z-Flip
Nyquist-Helm-Bertuzzi
Cleary-Abby-Miller/Eaves

That's a pretty solid lineup.

[rick zombo]

i fully agree with the Parise assessment. He's an impact player for sure. Brunner though I personally think will be a great fit here and open up the offence a lot having a shifty, speedy right handed scorer. If we get both Brunner and Parise it opens up an option for more scoring depth lines 1-3.
Mule-Dats-Parise
Brunner-Z-Flip
Nyquist-Helm-Bertuzzi
Cleary-Abby-Miller/Eaves

That's a pretty solid lineup.

Agreed,


I'd still add Prust and do this with the 4th.

Cleary - Abby - Prust
(Miller/Eaves)

[cusimano_brothers]

I wonder if Mario has been dragged into this process?

[Dabura]

Dangler, you wrote:

before the news that the Wings are apparently signing Brunner, i was on the side that thought our offense was stale and needed a guy like Parise to ramp it up, but after the news came that the leading scorer and right handed speedster was sitting with a pen until July 1st, i think now that signing Suter will definitely be more of a priority than Parise.

I would honestly go with Brunner, Suter and make a push for Garrison if i were Kenny.

If I'm reading you write, you're saying the addition of Brunner means we're ok without Parise. That's what I was taking issue with. (It's certainly possible I'm misinterpreting, of course.)

We're not even sure Brunner's gonna crack the lineup.

I do agree that Suter is the priority (over Parise, that is). But we could sure use both, and Brunner doesn't make Parise any less desirable, IMO.

[Matt]

Here's the flip of this topic. Pens fans talking about us getting Parise and Suter...

http://www.letsgopen...php?f=1&t=59084

Mostly "Duuurr-huuuur, who wanna live in Detroit? Derp, derp" type nonsense.

[ozone923]

Dangler, you wrote:




If I'm reading you write, you're saying the addition of Brunner means we're ok without Parise. That's what I was taking issue with. (It's certainly possible I'm misinterpreting, of course.)

We're not even sure Brunner's gonna crack the lineup.

I do agree that Suter is the priority (over Parise, that is). But we could sure use both, and Brunner doesn't make Parise any less desirable, IMO.

I'm pretty sure what he's trying to say is that defense is the more glaring need, so stock up on D with Suter and Garrison, and go with a small signing in Brunner and improve the offense internally by giving guys like Nyquist a big shot. I see this route as completely fine as well.

Mostly "Duuurr-huuuur, who wanna live in Detroit? Derp, derp" type nonsense.

Not very complex stuff, I agree. Nothing matters anymore, its the two elite organizations battling for the future, and all of it rests on Suter and Parise's feelings and not money.

[Hiei]

What idiot is going to take on Martin's 5 mil

[b.shanafan14]

If I'm reading you write, you're saying the addition of Brunner means we're ok without Parise. That's what I was taking issue with. (It's certainly possible I'm misinterpreting, of course.)

We're not even sure Brunner's gonna crack the lineup.

I do agree that Suter is the priority (over Parise, that is). But we could sure use both, and Brunner doesn't make Parise any less desirable, IMO.

This is pretty shocking to me as well. We shouldn't get too high on anyone who is yet unproven in North America. Brunner is the scoring champ in the Swiss league. The Swiss league, IMO, is significantly inferior to both the Swedish and Finnish Elite Leagues. Why is that relavent? Remember Fabian Brunnstrom and Ville Leino?

Until Brunner proves he is in fact an elite talent that can transition to the North American game, this is akin to saying "Great, we have Brunnstrom, who needs Parise!" I'm glad we signed essentially have him signed, but let's not count our chickens, folks.

The Wings need significant offensive help, more so than ever considering there will be a good deal of growing pains on the backend, no matter who we get (and for me, Suter is a must). We have the money, lets spend it, and I'd rather overpay Parise than inevitably overpay Semin, or worse, get no one but Brunner and a few past-their-primes and hear how much management likes what we got.

Edited by b.shanafan14, 25 June 2012 - 12:37 PM.

[FlashyG]

Aw man now you're Cap geeking other teams? I think the Pens will find a team to take Martin. A team like the Oilers who are in dire need of defensive help. Or a team trying to reach the Cap floor like the Jets.

Hopefully there aren't any teams out there looking to do the Penguins any favors like that.

I'm sure those teams looking to get to the cap floor would be better of overpaying a FA than they would be trading away draft picks or roster players to get Martin and his 5 million dollar cap hit.

[Dabura]

This is pretty shocking to me as well. We shouldn't get too high on anyone who is yet unproven in North America. Brunner is the scoring champ in the Swiss league. The Swiss league, IMO, is significantly inferior to both the Swedish and Finnish Elite Leagues. Why is that relavent? Remember Fabian Brunnstrom and Ville Leino?

Until Brunner proves he is in fact an elite talent that can transition to the North American game, this is akin to saying "Great, we have Brunnstrom, who needs Parise!" I'm glad we signed essentially have him signed, but let's not count our chickens, folks.

The Wings need significant offensive help, more so than ever considering there will be a good deal of growing pains on the backend, no matter who we get (and for me, Suter is a must). We have the money, lets spend it, and I'd rather overpay Parise than inevitably overpay Semin, or worse, get no one but Brunner and a few past-their-primes and hear how much management likes what we got.

This.

[rrasco]

Here's the flip of this topic. Pens fans talking about us getting Parise and Suter...

http://www.letsgopen...php?f=1&t=59084

That has to be one of the most poorly designed websites I've ever been to.

[Z Winged Dangler]

Dangler, you wrote:




If I'm reading you write, you're saying the addition of Brunner means we're ok without Parise. That's what I was taking issue with. (It's certainly possible I'm misinterpreting, of course.)

We're not even sure Brunner's gonna crack the lineup.

I do agree that Suter is the priority (over Parise, that is). But we could sure use both, and Brunner doesn't make Parise any less desirable, IMO.

100% agree with you, but I was more stating that I'm not horribly disappointed if we are only able to get Suter and not Parise assuming Brunner ink's the contract. Parise to me is a very desired player to be on the Wings. See sig below. I have a nice menu of players i'd like to see here and Parise is #2 on that list now behind only Suter. I'm trying to not be too greedy and have unrealistic expectations from Kenny. As much as i'd like to see Suter, Parise, Brunner, Prust and Garrison sign here and have Semin, Radulov, Hudler and Franzen play on the same KHL team, not all of those are gonna happen. If we even get Parise and Suter i'll poop my pants and then Brunner is the icing on the cake.

Rick Zombo, i would also love Prust on the 4th line. Also see sig below. He's been on my Red Wings hit list for a while.

Ozone, you are correct in your analysis.

Hopefully there aren't any teams out there looking to do the Penguins any favors like that.

I'm sure those teams looking to get to the cap floor would be better of overpaying a FA than they would be trading away draft picks or roster players to get Martin and his 5 million dollar cap hit.

The Jets will only take Martin if they can send Hainsey the other way.

[Z Winged Dangler]

This is pretty shocking to me as well. We shouldn't get too high on anyone who is yet unproven in North America. Brunner is the scoring champ in the Swiss league. The Swiss league, IMO, is significantly inferior to both the Swedish and Finnish Elite Leagues. Why is that relavent? Remember Fabian Brunnstrom and Ville Leino?

Until Brunner proves he is in fact an elite talent that can transition to the North American game, this is akin to saying "Great, we have Brunnstrom, who needs Parise!" I'm glad we signed essentially have him signed, but let's not count our chickens, folks.

The Wings need significant offensive help, more so than ever considering there will be a good deal of growing pains on the backend, no matter who we get (and for me, Suter is a must). We have the money, lets spend it, and I'd rather overpay Parise than inevitably overpay Semin, or worse, get no one but Brunner and a few past-their-primes and hear how much management likes what we got.

Brunner also had 7 points in 7 games playing for an inferior team in Switzerland at the WC, a world stage. He's a good player that will fit really well in the Wings system and he has something to prove in the NHL. Leino and Brunnstrom didn't do that much for their international teams. Brunnstrom's claim to fame is his 1st career NHL game he had a hat trick but hasn't done much since and Leino had a great playoff run with the flyers. You also can't assume that everyone's the same though. Brunner could be a star for the Wings. guess we'll find out when/if he signs.

[Drake_Marcus]

Let's say the Pens sign Suter and Parise each to multi-year $7,000,000 cap hit deals and don't re-sign any of their current RFAs or UFAs. Here's what their roster would look like:

CAPGEEK.COM USER GENERATED ROSTER
My Custom Lineup
FORWARDS
James Neal ($5.000m) / Evgeni Malkin ($8.700m) / Zach Parise ($7.000m)
Chris Kunitz ($3.725m) / Sidney Crosby ($8.700m) / Pascal Dupuis ($1.500m)
Matt Cooke ($1.800m) / Brandon Sutter ($2.067m) / Tyler Kennedy ($2.000m)
Dustin Jeffrey ($0.575m) / Craig Adams ($0.675m) / Joe Vitale ($0.550m)
DEFENSEMEN
Paul Martin ($5.000m) / Brooks Orpik ($3.750m)
Kris Letang ($3.500m) / Deryk Engelland ($0.567m)
Ben Lovejoy ($0.525m) / Ryan Suter ($7.000m)
GOALTENDERS
Marc-Andre Fleury ($5.000m)
Tomas Vokoun ($2.000m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $70,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $69,633,333; BONUSES: $0
CAP SPACE (20-man roster): $666,667

(the lines are automatically generated, I know the roster looks wonky in that order)
Notice that they only have room for one minimum salary player to be the 13th forward or 7th dman.

Pretty tight, eh? That's a very dangerous proposition given that we have no clue what the real salary cap will be in October. The 70mil number is just a place holder until a new CBA is signed. I'm pretty confident GMs around the league are smart enough to leave more wiggle room than 670K.

Even if the Pens find someone to take Martin's salary off their books they still need to leave room to re-sign Letang in two years when he's due for a significant raise. Loosing Martin would leave half their defense as cheap fillers making nearly the league minimum (not a solid plan going forward).

I can see the Pens taking a run at Parise or Suter, but they'd be fools to sign both at this point. Etiher way, they'd be sacrificing a ton of depth to make a very top-heavy roster.

For the sake of comparison, here's the Wings roster with Parise and Suter signed to identical 7mil deals:

CAPGEEK.COM USER GENERATED ROSTER
My Custom Lineup
FORWARDS
Zach Parise ($7.000m) / Pavel Datsyuk ($6.700m) / Gustav Nyquist ($0.875m)
Valtteri Filppula ($3.000m) / Henrik Zetterberg ($6.083m) / Johan Franzen ($3.955m)
Danny Cleary ($2.800m) / Darren Helm ($2.125m) / Todd Bertuzzi ($2.075m)
Drew Miller ($0.838m) / Cory Emmerton ($0.533m) / Patrick Eaves ($1.200m)
Jan Mursak ($0.550m) /
DEFENSEMEN
Niklas Kronwall ($4.750m) / Ryan Suter ($7.000m)
Jonathan Ericsson ($3.250m) / Brendan Smith ($0.875m)
Ian White ($2.875m) / Jakub Kindl ($0.883m)
GOALTENDERS
Jimmy Howard ($2.250m)
Joey MacDonald ($0.550m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $70,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $60,167,045; BONUSES: $37,500
CAP SPACE (21-man roster): $10,132,955

The big difference here is the Wings roster is much more balanced and has a ton of room for the cap to come down (there's no way in hell the cap next season will be lower than it was this season).

[rick zombo]

Let's say the Pens sign Suter and Parise each to multi-year $7,000,000 cap hit deals and don't re-sign any of their current RFAs or UFAs. Here's what their roster would look like:

CAPGEEK.COM USER GENERATED ROSTER
My Custom Lineup
FORWARDS
James Neal ($5.000m) / Evgeni Malkin ($8.700m) / Zach Parise ($7.000m)
Chris Kunitz ($3.725m) / Sidney Crosby ($8.700m) / Pascal Dupuis ($1.500m)
Matt Cooke ($1.800m) / Brandon Sutter ($2.067m) / Tyler Kennedy ($2.000m)
Dustin Jeffrey ($0.575m) / Craig Adams ($0.675m) / Joe Vitale ($0.550m)
DEFENSEMEN
Paul Martin ($5.000m) / Brooks Orpik ($3.750m)
Kris Letang ($3.500m) / Deryk Engelland ($0.567m)
Ben Lovejoy ($0.525m) / Ryan Suter ($7.000m)
GOALTENDERS
Marc-Andre Fleury ($5.000m)
Tomas Vokoun ($2.000m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $70,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $69,633,333; BONUSES: $0
CAP SPACE (20-man roster): $666,667

(the lines are automatically generated, I know the roster looks wonky in that order)
Notice that they only have room for one minimum salary player to be the 13th forward or 7th dman.

Pretty tight, eh? That's a very dangerous proposition given that we have no clue what the real salary cap will be in October. The 70mil number is just a place holder until a new CBA is signed. I'm pretty confident GMs around the league are smart enough to leave more wiggle room than 670K.

Even if the Pens find someone to take Martin's salary off their books they still need to leave room to re-sign Letang in two years when he's due for a significant raise. Loosing Martin would leave half their defense as cheap fillers making nearly the league minimum (not a solid plan going forward).

I can see the Pens taking a run at Parise or Suter, but they'd be fools to sign both at this point. Etiher way, they'd be sacrificing a ton of depth to make a very top-heavy roster.

For the sake of comparison, here's the Wings roster with Parise and Suter signed to identical 7mil deals:

CAPGEEK.COM USER GENERATED ROSTER
My Custom Lineup
FORWARDS
Zach Parise ($7.000m) / Pavel Datsyuk ($6.700m) / Gustav Nyquist ($0.875m)
Valtteri Filppula ($3.000m) / Henrik Zetterberg ($6.083m) / Johan Franzen ($3.955m)
Danny Cleary ($2.800m) / Darren Helm ($2.125m) / Todd Bertuzzi ($2.075m)
Drew Miller ($0.838m) / Cory Emmerton ($0.533m) / Patrick Eaves ($1.200m)
Jan Mursak ($0.550m) /
DEFENSEMEN
Niklas Kronwall ($4.750m) / Ryan Suter ($7.000m)
Jonathan Ericsson ($3.250m) / Brendan Smith ($0.875m)
Ian White ($2.875m) / Jakub Kindl ($0.883m)
GOALTENDERS
Jimmy Howard ($2.250m)
Joey MacDonald ($0.550m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $70,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $60,167,045; BONUSES: $37,500
CAP SPACE (21-man roster): $10,132,955

The big difference here is the Wings roster is much more balanced and has a ton of room for the cap to come down (there's no way in hell the cap next season will be lower than it was this season).

Great post. I got half way doing something like this before I had to go save a cat from a burning tree.

Seriously though, it comes down to what matters more to Parise and Suter: joining a stacked team like Pittsburgh with an iffy long-term cap plan and dramatic loss of depth outside of the top six F and top 2 D? Or joining a team like Detroit who could ice a well balanced squad and still have 10M to throw around.

Plus the Wings uniforms are cooler.

BUT they'd definitely have a larger selection of jersey numbers to chose from in Pittsburgh

[Hatethedrake!]

CAPGEEK.COM USER GENERATED ROSTER
My Custom Lineup
FORWARDS
Zach Parise ($7.000m) / Pavel Datsyuk ($6.700m) / Gustav Nyquist ($0.875m)
Valtteri Filppula ($3.000m) / Henrik Zetterberg ($6.083m) / Johan Franzen ($3.955m)
Danny Cleary ($2.800m) / Darren Helm ($2.125m) / Todd Bertuzzi ($2.075m)
Brandon Prust ($2.000m) / Justin Abdelkader ($1.750m) / Patrick Eaves ($1.200m)
Drew Miller ($0.838m) / Jan Mursak ($0.550m)
DEFENSEMEN
Ryan Suter ($7.000m) / Niklas Kronwall ($4.750m)
Ian White ($2.875m) / Kyle Quincey ($3.250m)
Brendan Smith ($0.875m) / Jonathan Ericsson ($3.250m)
Jakub Kindl ($0.883m)
GOALTENDERS
Jimmy Howard ($2.250m)
Al Montoya ($1.000m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $70,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $67,083,712; BONUSES: $37,500
CAP SPACE (23-man roster): $3,216,288

Edited by Hatethedrake!, 25 June 2012 - 02:35 PM.

[LeftWinger]

Parise or not...I have a feeling Semin will be here. It'd be nice if they signed all four Suter/Parise/Semin/Schultz. I am wavering from my dream roster until they are not available anymore, but even with Parise and Semin up front and Suter and Schultz in back, the Wings are tons better than last year, offense and defense....


I too don't think they would be able to afford them, not unless they took major discounts...even over on that pens forum a lot of folks were saying that they hope that Shero doesn't pay them too much...a few also seem to think Parise to them, Suter to us which would be fine with me....there are nice plan b options for offense out there. I am still not counting out Doan until he is re-signed in Phoenix or somewhere else. Honestly I think Pit would benefit from Doan too...

Edited by LeftWinger, 25 June 2012 - 02:47 PM.

[Hatethedrake!]

Parise or not...I have a feeling Semin will be here. It'd be nice if they signed all four Suter/Parise/Semin/Schultz. I am wavering from my dream roster until they are not available anymore, but even with Parise and Semin up front and Suter and Schultz in back, the Wings are tons better than last year, offense and defense....

I think we really need Prust for the 4th line. Schultz will likely go to the Oilers where he can get all the ice time he wants while playing with all their young franchise players who's balls have not even dropped yet. Kenny will not guarantee a top 4 spot on the blueline. Semin is likely Plan B if Parise does not come here. I see it being Parise-Suter-Prust. Kenny needs to save some cap space to get Flip and Jimmy re-signed to new deals for 2013-2014.

[Z Winged Dangler]

Great post. I got half way doing something like this before I had to go save a cat from a burning tree.

Seriously though, it comes down to what matters more to Parise and Suter: joining a stacked team like Pittsburgh with an iffy long-term cap plan and dramatic loss of depth outside of the top six F and top 2 D? Or joining a team like Detroit who could ice a well balanced squad and still have 10M to throw around.

Plus the Wings uniforms are cooler.

BUT they'd definitely have a larger selection of jersey numbers to chose from in Pittsburgh

In Detroit, you do NOT wear powder blue jerseys. That = +1 Wings. Parise #90 or 91, Suter #20, Miller #22? or something non-Lebda. And the Wings jersey are WAY cooler!

I think we really need Prust for the 4th line. Schultz will likely go to the Oilers where he can get all the ice time he wants while playing with all their young franchise players who's balls have not even dropped yet. Kenny will not guarantee a top 4 spot on the blueline. Semin is likely Plan B if Parise does not come here. I see it being Parise-Suter-Prust. Kenny needs to save some cap space to get Flip and Jimmy re-signed to new deals for 2013-2014.

Everything sounds good except for Semin. I'm still not onboard with him cause he's lazy and has an attitude problem being the "me first" type guy. He may be the best fighter in the league, but he's not what the Wings need. Parise and Prust are hard working character players with a good 2-way game. Not just a good shot and not much past 1 dimensional. Give Nyquist Hudler's spot, not Semin.

[LeftWinger]

Suter #20 for sure...I would give Miller, #26, it won't be used anymore. Parise is a bit harder, #90 just doesn't look right, it was ok for Modo because it was a one year last hurrah, even then it looked funny. #91 is out, I think the next person to wear that if anyone will be the kid they drafted this year who wears it (sorry the exact kid's name slipped my head at the moment.) I would say that he may get a whole different number...#15, #14 (I am sure Nyquist would gladly choose another one) #22, #24 (although I think Mike McKee will be the next to wear that one) #25 is open too as well as #28. I highly doubt Gordie allows them to give #9 to him, and i am not suggesting that to do or will...oh and #23 is available as well, forgot! If Quincey walks, then #27 is there too! Sidenote on #23 & #27, Zach's father, JP, wore both of those numbers in his career....

Hmmmm....I wonder if Weber did follow Suter here next year, would Ilitch give him #6? Indeed an interesting situation. I would say #16 is out of the question.. of course there is no rules against a #66 in Detroit...too bad Parise cannot have #99....

Edited by LeftWinger, 25 June 2012 - 03:57 PM.