Shanahan snubbed from HoF induction

[ogreslayer 1,069]

To give everyone something to talk about other than free agency...

I think it's pretty clear that Shanny gets the call this afternoon on his first HoF ballot. Since that's the first step to have your jersey retired in Hockeytown, what's everyone's thoughts on whether he gets that honor too?

Personally, I don't think he gets his jersey in the rafters of the Joe or whatever the new arena is called when it opens. If he had stuck around & retired as a Wing, I think he still would have been a long-shot but once he left for New York in 2006, that shot disappeared.

Discuss....

[hooon 1,089]

Nope.

Lidstrom, yes.

[Jedi 1,865]

I'd say no. HOF, for sure, but he didn't have a long enough & illustrious enough career in a Wings jersey to belong next to the other 6 guys up there (7, surely, next year with #5 going up there).

Compare Stevie & Nick's numbers compared with Shanny's.

Stevie - 22 seasons in Detroit, Captain for 20 seasons, Lester B Pearson Trophy, Conn Smythe Trophy, Selke Trophy, Masterton Trophy, 3 Time Stanley Cup Champion.

Nick - 20 seasons in Detroit, Captain for 6 seasons, 7 Norris Trophies, Conn Smythe Trophy, 4 time Stanley Cup Champion.

Shanny - 9 seasons in Detroit, King Clancy Memorial Trophy. 3 time Stanley Cup Champion.

It's easy to see that Shanny had a great career as a Red Wing, and that he was an indispensable part of the '97, '98 and '02 Cup teams. However, when you compare resume's in the Red Wings uniform, his just doesn't match up to Stevie's or Nick's.

This is why I think the new arena should have a "Ring of Honor" or something like it. That way guys like Shanny, McCarty, Draper, Maltby, Homer, etc can be honored, without taking that number out of circulation.

[dirtydangles 1,328]

I'd say no. HOF, for sure, but he didn't have a long enough & illustrious enough career in a Wings jersey to belong next to the other 6 guys up there (7, surely, next year with #5 going up there).

Compare Stevie & Nick's numbers compared with Shanny's.

Stevie - 22 seasons in Detroit, Captain for 20 seasons, Lester B Pearson Trophy, Conn Smythe Trophy, Selke Trophy, Masterton Trophy, 3 Time Stanley Cup Champion.

Nick - 20 seasons in Detroit, Captain for 6 seasons, 7 Norris Trophies, Conn Smythe Trophy, 4 time Stanley Cup Champion.

Shanny - 9 seasons in Detroit, King Clancy Memorial Trophy. 3 time Stanley Cup Champion.

It's easy to see that Shanny had a great career as a Red Wing, and that he was an indispensable part of the '97, '98 and '02 Cup teams. However, when you compare resume's in the Red Wings uniform, his just doesn't match up to Stevie's or Nick's.

This is why I think the new arena should have a "Ring of Honor" or something like it. That way guys like Shanny, McCarty, Draper, Maltby, Homer, etc can be honored, without taking that number out of circulation.

AGREED. would be nice to honour life longers who bled for us and some shorter term talent.

[WizardOfOz30 1,886]

I agree with Jedi, I like the idea of being able to honor those that made a big impact on the team but not enough to have the jersey number retired.

Do hope that he does get the HOF.

[xtrememachine1 795]

He'll get the Hall of Fame for sure, but he wasn't as impactful as the guys already hanging in the rafters.

[Nev 1,085]

Lock for the HOF, but he's in that big group of question marks for number retirement - the "lifers" like Homer, Ozzie, Draper and Maltby who embody everything about what it is to be a wing but didn't have mad HOF skillz, and the guys like Shanny and Feds who had the mad HOF skillz but weren't lifers.

The problem with using Listrom and Yzerman as your benchmarks for retirement is that we might not retire another number for the next 100 years. Some Wings fans are certainly quite snobbish about this , and wouldn't have a problem with that, but in the era of the cap and free agency, 1st ballot HOFers who spend their entire career with one club and win multiple cups are going to become increasingly rare.

[Jedi 1,865]

The problem with using Listrom and Yzerman as your benchmarks for retirement is that we might not retire another number for the next 100 years. Some Wings fans are certainly quite snobbish about this , and wouldn't have a problem with that, but in the era of the cap and free agency, 1st ballot HOFers who spend their entire career with one club and win multiple cups are going to become increasingly rare.

I, for one, have no problem with using guys like Lidstrom and Yzerman as your benchmark. In the entire history of the Red Wings, they have only retired 6 numbers (7, if you count Larry Aurie's #6). That's less than 1 per decade. Even when Lidstrom's number is retired, it will still be less than 1 number retired per decade of the team's existence.

Jersey retirement is the ULTIMATE way of saluting a player's career. The way the club can say "Your contributions to this sport, this city and this team were so special that no one will EVER be able to wear that number again". Does anyone REALLY want the club to start a policy of "Come here, win a few cups, and we'll honor you the same way we honored Gordie Howe, Ted Lindsay, or Steve Yzerman"? That would cheapen the honor immeasurably (See: Colorado Avalanche & Ray Borque).

Besides, no one wants the Wings rafters to be like the Canadiens, who have retired #'s 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, 9, 10, 12, 12 again, 16, 16 again, 18, 19, 23, 29, and 33.

[StormJH1 231]

Consider the following: The Red Wings are an Original Six team, yet have only six (currently or officially) retired numbers. The Montreal Canadiens have retired 17. The Bruins have retired 10.

However, the Maple Leafs use an "honoured" system for guys like Wendel Clark, Mats Sundin, etc...their numbers are recognized but left in circulation. Under that approach, they've only actually retired TWO numbers, though the bar for getting "honoured" is obviously far lower than getting a number retired.

The problem with retiring Shanahan's is that if you do that, there are strong rationales for also retiring other numbers, such as Fedorov and Osgood. I like to start with the question of "Should this player's number be retired somewhere?" In other words, had he played for one team exclusively, are the merits of his career sufficent for that degree of recognition. I think with Shanahan and Fedorov, the answer is absolutely yes. Osgood? Hmm, maybe, maybe not. Yet, if you asked people on this board, more people would want to see Shanny's number retired than Fedorov, and many would put Osgood in front of Fedorov too. I think that's just wrong. While Yzerman's importance is unquestioned, don't forget that this team didn't truly go from Dead Wings to perennial playoff team (and still going) until Fedorov (and Lidstrom) came along. They are the Scottie Pippen to Yzerman's Michael Jordan.

So, really, I could go either way on this, but if you have to go ALL the way in whatever direction you choose. If you feel that 3 Cups in 6 seasons ('97 to '02) is a significant achievement, and far more significant in a modern league with 26 to 30 teams than it would have been in the 40's or 50's, then I am okay with recognizing that through multiple retired numbers for players who were integral in that success.

But if you feel that Yzerman and Lidstrom are the only two worthy of that recognition, then cut it off. If you choose that route, however, I have serious doubts that Datsyuk or Zetterberg could ever have their numbers retired at the current place. Unless Datsyuk wins additional Cups, retiring #13 but NOT #91, to me, makes no sense whatsoever.

Edited June 26, 2012 by StormJH1

[StormJH1 231]

By the way, I thought the fact that Derek Meech, Nyquist , (and others?) have already worn #14 post-Shanny was cited on LGW as proof that the Wings had no intent of retiring it. Nobody seems to think that a Konstantinov number retirement is imminent, yet nobody (not even Hull) will touch that number in Hockeytown. So it seems counterintuitive that they would print up #14 jerseys for rookies if they planned on retiring it down the road.

[Guest irishock]

Fedorov left the team on bad conditions.

[Din758 371]

yes on the ring of honor idea.

in other news, some less than crdible sources on twitter have been saying shanny didnt get in the HOF this year. sometimes these people are right though.

[kook_10 1,705]

I love Shanny, but he jumped ship so there is no way. If he had retired a Wing with another cup there may be some discussion, but none of that matters now.

[Hockey13Playa 240]

Plain and simple, short and sweet:

HOF: YES

JERSEY RETIRED: NO (Not in Detroit anyways)

Great player but I don't think he met the criteria to hang in the rafters with the elites. If you retired Shanahan's jersey just think of all the other wings that should "technically" then be retired as well...

[chances14 227]

Ansar Khan ‏@AnsarKhanMLive

Shocker: Brendan Shanahan did not get elected to Hall of Fame in first year of eligibility. Bure, Oates, Sakic, Sundin are in.

talk about being snubbed.

Edited June 26, 2012 by chances14

[ogreslayer 1,069]

That is shocking. On a lighter note, I wonder if he's going to suspend the voting committee now?

[jeff48109 474]

supplemental discipline is warranted

[Jedi 1,865]

Wow. Shanahan has more Stanley Cup rings than those 4 guys combined.

Twitter is lighting up with jokes about Shanny suspending the HHoF Selection Committee.

[ogreslayer 1,069]

Wow. Shanahan has more Stanley Cup rings than those 4 guys combined.

Twitter is lighting up with jokes about Shanny suspending the HHoF Selection Committee.

I'm sensing another Will Arnett video on the horizon.

[chances14 227]

i really don't think sundin should have gotten in over shanny. must be the toronto factor

[Wings4Life19 150]

Shocked! if over 600 goals, over 1300 points, 3 Stanley cups, and an olympic gold medal won't make you a first ballot HOFer, then i give. Please don't let it turn into the MLB HOF

[akustyk 84]

this is really emberassing. Sundin over Shanny...

yep... talk about HHOF offices being in Toronto and this being no how correlated with votes...

disgusting!

[Electrophile 3,554]

We can't cuss here anymore for some reason, but in this space, place your favorite swear words of choice. __________________________________

This is BS, pure and simple. Me = not happy.

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

I always liked Sundin, but there's no way he should've gotten in ahead of Shanny.

[toby91_ca 620]

this is really emberassing. Sundin over Shanny...

yep... talk about HHOF offices being in Toronto and this being no how correlated with votes...

disgusting!

If you think about it though, what arguments do you have for Shanahan over Sundin? Yes, he scored more goals, but Sundin still had 564 goals. Sundin scored the same number of points (give or take a few) in almost 200 less games. I also think Sundin's international experience is a little more accomplished than Shanny's.

I think Shanhan's very low points per game stat hurt him. He'll get in eventuall though. If you look at this year's list, I could argue Shanny over Sundin, Oates or Bure, but you could argue the other way too. The only non-argument would be that Sakic is a lock over them all.

Oates...much better ppg than Shanny, but after that, not much to say.

Bure....the question mark there is the fact his career was cut short....did he do enough? I think his talents were superior to Shanahan's, his gpg and ppg stats blow Shanny's out of the water, but that has been shown in the past not to matter much when you are talking about shorter careers. Bure waited awhile to get in though.