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Parise Likely Out. Next Options

zach parise alexander semin free agency

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#41 Number19

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Posted 27 June 2012 - 10:35 AM

This team doesn't need to get older, better to get younger and take a chance on Semin.

Oh please people have been saying that for 10 + years and look we won two cups and made the playoffs every season. If it makes you feel any better I'm sure losing Nick and Brad dropped the average age down a bit.

and you don't "take a chance" on a 6.5mil forward.

Edited by Number19, 27 June 2012 - 10:35 AM.


#42 ozone923

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Posted 27 June 2012 - 10:39 AM

Has anyone considered that the $9-10 million figure would be his salary, not his cap hit? As fans, all we should care about is the cap hit. Richards made $12 million this year with a $10 million signing bonus and his cap hit was $6.66 million.


Only if he signs before the new CBA folks. And even then, signing a front-loaded contract could get Pitts in trouble like Jersey did with Kovalchuk, especially being so close to the new CBA.
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Damien Brunner ($1.350m) / Pavel Datsyuk ($6.700m) / Johan Franzen ($3.955m)
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Danny Cleary ($2.800m) / Darren Helm ($2.125m) / Todd Bertuzzi ($2.075m)
Drew Miller ($0.838m) / Justin Abdelkader ($1.200m) / Jordin Tootoo ($1.900m)
Gustav Nyquist ($0.875m)
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Jonathan Ericsson ($3.250m) / Brendan Smith ($0.875m)
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#43 toby91_ca

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Posted 27 June 2012 - 11:05 AM

Has anyone considered that the $9-10 million figure would be his salary, not his cap hit? As fans, all we should care about is the cap hit. Richards made $12 million this year with a $10 million signing bonus and his cap hit was $6.66 million.

I think most are considering the $9-10 million to be the average per year over a deal he signs....therefore = cap hit. Maybe I'm interpreting your statement wrong, but are you suggesting Richards made $22 million last year? He had a signing bonus of $10 million as you say, but his salary was only $2 million....so total = $12 million. Wasn't sure if you were adding the signing bonus on top of the $12 million.

This makes me giggle... seriously. Crosby is NOT taking a paycut to do the league or his team a favour. The kid will make 9 million a year. LOL. 9 MILLION! A paycut is Hank taking 6.08 a year instead of 8. Crosby should be taking 8 or less if he wants to 'give his team a chance'. It disgusts me how greedy some of these players are.

Really? Not sure why Hank would be worth $8 million a year into his 40s, but ok. You say Hank took a cut from possible $8 million to $6 million, but if Crosby is worth $14 million (i.e. max under the cap) and he only takes $9 or $10 million, it's not a cut since it's more than $8 million. This makes no sense at all.

The thing is, even if Crosby wants to settle at $9 or $10 million, you better believe he will be getting serious pressure from both his agent and the NHLPA to go as high as possible.

#44 ozone923

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Posted 27 June 2012 - 11:26 AM

Really? Not sure why Hank would be worth $8 million a year into his 40s, but ok. You say Hank took a cut from possible $8 million to $6 million, but if Crosby is worth $14 million (i.e. max under the cap) and he only takes $9 or $10 million, it's not a cut since it's more than $8 million. This makes no sense at all.

The thing is, even if Crosby wants to settle at $9 or $10 million, you better believe he will be getting serious pressure from both his agent and the NHLPA to go as high as possible.


Why does he have to be worth 8 mil into his 40's? Who says he makes it there? The reason the contract currently signed is so long is because it is front-loaded. They would just make a front-loaded contract with an average hit of 8 mil = therefore the cap it of 8 mil. He is easily worth that, and so is Datsyuk.
If talks about Parise being worth 9-10 million are surfacing, then no KIDDING Hank is worth 8 million. He has 102 playoff points in 109 playoff games, close to the highest among active players.

My point is that regardless of the fact that under a 70.3 mil cap, Crosby not taking 14 million a year is not a "discount". Relatively speaking, no player in the NHL is currently worth that if the highest paid player is Ovechkin at 9.5. Crosby would be worth 10 at the max in this case. Crosby taking 9 instead of 10, a whopping1 million difference is not a discount. Hank and Pav took legitimate discounts for their teams.

I understand what you're saying, but I'm trying to step out of the NHL for a second and look at the actual numbers these kids are earning... and it is simply ludicrous to say that from 10 million dollars to 9 is a discount.
CAPGEEK.COM USER GENERATED ROSTER
My Custom Lineup
FORWARDS
Damien Brunner ($1.350m) / Pavel Datsyuk ($6.700m) / Johan Franzen ($3.955m)
Valtteri Filppula ($3.000m) / Henrik Zetterberg ($6.083m) / Mikael Samuelsson ($3.000m)
Danny Cleary ($2.800m) / Darren Helm ($2.125m) / Todd Bertuzzi ($2.075m)
Drew Miller ($0.838m) / Justin Abdelkader ($1.200m) / Jordin Tootoo ($1.900m)
Gustav Nyquist ($0.875m)
DEFENSEMEN
Niklas Kronwall ($4.750m) / Kyle Quincey ($3.775m)
Jay Bouwmeester ($6.680m) / Ian White ($2.875m)
Jonathan Ericsson ($3.250m) / Brendan Smith ($0.875m)
Jakub Kindl ($0.883m) /
GOALTENDERS
Jimmy Howard ($2.250m)
Jonas Gustavsson ($1.500m)

#45 kipwinger

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Posted 27 June 2012 - 12:11 PM

Thats where it gets messy. Sid the Kid said he's willing to lower his contract and only take a 550,000 raise inorder for them to build a championship team around him. He's willing to take the paycut inorder to win. Parise will not make more than Crosby.


That's a real nice sentiment from Crosby and all, but considering the last two years that he's had, and the big question mark hanging above his head for the forseeable future, I doubt he was going to get much of a raise anyway.

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Get off the high horse.  Not like she was 10."

 

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#46 toby91_ca

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Posted 27 June 2012 - 12:23 PM

Why does he have to be worth 8 mil into his 40's? Who says he makes it there? The reason the contract currently signed is so long is because it is front-loaded. They would just make a front-loaded contract with an average hit of 8 mil = therefore the cap it of 8 mil. He is easily worth that, and so is Datsyuk.
If talks about Parise being worth 9-10 million are surfacing, then no KIDDING Hank is worth 8 million. He has 102 playoff points in 109 playoff games, close to the highest among active players.

My point is that regardless of the fact that under a 70.3 mil cap, Crosby not taking 14 million a year is not a "discount". Relatively speaking, no player in the NHL is currently worth that if the highest paid player is Ovechkin at 9.5. Crosby would be worth 10 at the max in this case. Crosby taking 9 instead of 10, a whopping1 million difference is not a discount. Hank and Pav took legitimate discounts for their teams.

I understand what you're saying, but I'm trying to step out of the NHL for a second and look at the actual numbers these kids are earning... and it is simply ludicrous to say that from 10 million dollars to 9 is a discount.

But your $10 million reference point is meaningless, you've created that out of thin air. The fact is, the cap has gone up about 15-20% since Zetterberg signed his contract, so comparing $8 million for him, or whatever the number, to what Crosby might be worth today is comparing apples and oranges.

I've always said when Zetterberg signed his contract, he might be worth $8 million a year on a 5 deal, but if you want longer term, your average per year has to come down due to diminishing returns as he ages. Otherwise, you have a 41 year old on the roster taking up $8 million in cap space and potentially not giving you much production. Flip sides are that he's likely retired before then or the cap may be significantly greater so the $8 million isn't a big deal. I've always had an issue with these types of contrats as, to me, they are clearly circumventing the cap. Unless you really thinking the player is going to stick around and play through to the end of the contract, I think there is circumvention. I think deals like Zetterberg's pushed the envelope and then Kovalchuk's initial deal just went way overboard and was denied.

That's a real nice sentiment from Crosby and all, but considering the last two years that he's had, and the big question mark hanging above his head for the forseeable future, I doubt he was going to get much of a raise anyway.

Not based on what a group of GMs suggested. I heard a comment a few weeks ago about the very issue with his concussions, etc. I think 6 or 7 GMs were asked about the situation and all of them suggested they would be willing to sign him to a max dollar deal, even if they wouldn't be able to insur him.

#47 kipwinger

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Posted 27 June 2012 - 12:26 PM

But your $10 million reference point is meaningless, you've created that out of thin air. The fact is, the cap has gone up about 15-20% since Zetterberg signed his contract, so comparing $8 million for him, or whatever the number, to what Crosby might be worth today is comparing apples and oranges.

I've always said when Zetterberg signed his contract, he might be worth $8 million a year on a 5 deal, but if you want longer term, your average per year has to come down due to diminishing returns as he ages. Otherwise, you have a 41 year old on the roster taking up $8 million in cap space and potentially not giving you much production. Flip sides are that he's likely retired before then or the cap may be significantly greater so the $8 million isn't a big deal. I've always had an issue with these types of contrats as, to me, they are clearly circumventing the cap. Unless you really thinking the player is going to stick around and play through to the end of the contract, I think there is circumvention. I think deals like Zetterberg's pushed the envelope and then Kovalchuk's initial deal just went way overboard and was denied.


Not based on what a group of GMs suggested. I heard a comment a few weeks ago about the very issue with his concussions, etc. I think 6 or 7 GMs were asked about the situation and all of them suggested they would be willing to sign him to a max dollar deal, even if they wouldn't be able to insur him.


Right, well that may be true, but they don't know the extent of his issues...Pittsburgh does. Obviously if there isn't an issue any longer then he gets paid. However, I think he does still have an issue, and I think Pittsburgh knows it. If they give him a max dollar deal they're either nuts, or he's 100 %.

GMRwings:  "Well, in other civilized countries, 16 years old isn't considered underage.  For instance, I believe the age of consent is 16 in Canada.  There's some US states where it's 16 as well.  

 

Get off the high horse.  Not like she was 10."

 

"Some girls are 17 even though they look 25."

 

 


#48 toby91_ca

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Posted 27 June 2012 - 12:29 PM

Right, well that may be true, but they don't know the extent of his issues...Pittsburgh does. Obviously if there isn't an issue any longer then he gets paid. However, I think he does still have an issue, and I think Pittsburgh knows it. If they give him a max dollar deal they're either nuts, or he's 100 %.

Well, facts are that with his type of injury, you never really know if you are 100% or not.

The way one GM put it is that he would pay him, knowing there there is a big risk and he may get burned, but if he doesn't do it and Crosby goes on to greatness over the next 10+ years, he'll look even more foolish.

#49 kipwinger

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Posted 27 June 2012 - 12:34 PM

Well, facts are that with his type of injury, you never really know if you are 100% or not.

The way one GM put it is that he would pay him, knowing there there is a big risk and he may get burned, but if he doesn't do it and Crosby goes on to greatness over the next 10+ years, he'll look even more foolish.


Yeah I agree, and there's a lot of speculation involved. Another thing to consider is, regardless of the fact that it doesn't count against the cap when he's injured, many owners are not likely to want to pay a guy 10 million dollars (or whatever) to rehab. Look how much the Pittsburgh ownership lost over the last two years just because he wasn't in the lineup. GM's don't have to eat that cash, owners do.

It's always a tricky thing with concussions, and I'm obviously no doctor. But I do know that they get easier to get every time you have one. Crosby has a history of concussions back to the Juniors (I recall reading somewhere) and the last two that kept him out came on relatively soft, and relatively low, hits (by NHL standards). If I'm an owner I want to see one full year out of Crosby at close to 100% before I commit long term and for huge money. Who the f*** wants to sign the next Eric Lindros for the next 8 or 10 years?

GMRwings:  "Well, in other civilized countries, 16 years old isn't considered underage.  For instance, I believe the age of consent is 16 in Canada.  There's some US states where it's 16 as well.  

 

Get off the high horse.  Not like she was 10."

 

"Some girls are 17 even though they look 25."

 

 


#50 Shaman

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Posted 27 June 2012 - 01:14 PM

Oh please people have been saying that for 10 + years and look we won two cups and made the playoffs every season. If it makes you feel any better I'm sure losing Nick and Brad dropped the average age down a bit.

and you don't "take a chance" on a 6.5mil forward.


You do when he has the ability to score 40 goals and 90 points.
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#51 FlashyG

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Posted 27 June 2012 - 01:51 PM

Its an Eklund rumor so its probably not accurate but if he's right, Kovalchuk is in play.

The big news we can finally discuss is surrounding NJ today, where there is some wild speculation that the team could sign Parise and trade Kovalchuk to be able to be in a better position to sell the franchise. I was told about this by various sources earlier in the week, but now it's been intensifying...to say the least...Who could take on kovalchuk's contract? Who is interested? I was told four teams...The Wild, the Red Wings, the Islanders and the Canadiiens...



#52 Shaman

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Posted 27 June 2012 - 01:54 PM

Its an Eklund rumor so its probably not accurate but if he's right, Kovalchuk is in play.

Okay, now we know the following for sure:
Kovalchuck will be a Devil next season
Parise will not be a Devil.
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und bin im Wasser verbrannt
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#53 frankgrimes

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Posted 27 June 2012 - 02:06 PM

Keep in mind a 550k raise for Crosby = 9.25 million per year could he command the salary maximum? Easily but I think he very well knows its better to give a bit, in order to gain safety. Other teams will still have a hard time, using the "Crosby Cap" against their future top UFAs, players and agents aren't dumb they would simple state, how the Pens are an annual contender and therefore players are taking paycuts.

That aside, if Zach re-signs he has to be fully aware that the Devils might be a bottom feeder soon (Brodeur retiring, internal cap and what not) but if he does kudos to him and his loyality.

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#54 rrasco

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Posted 27 June 2012 - 02:12 PM

Who could, or who would? The Red Wings certainly wouldn't.

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#55 ozone923

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Posted 27 June 2012 - 02:56 PM

But your $10 million reference point is meaningless, you've created that out of thin air. The fact is, the cap has gone up about 15-20% since Zetterberg signed his contract, so comparing $8 million for him, or whatever the number, to what Crosby might be worth today is comparing apples and oranges.

I've always said when Zetterberg signed his contract, he might be worth $8 million a year on a 5 deal, but if you want longer term, your average per year has to come down due to diminishing returns as he ages. Otherwise, you have a 41 year old on the roster taking up $8 million in cap space and potentially not giving you much production. Flip sides are that he's likely retired before then or the cap may be significantly greater so the $8 million isn't a big deal. I've always had an issue with these types of contrats as, to me, they are clearly circumventing the cap. Unless you really thinking the player is going to stick around and play through to the end of the contract, I think there is circumvention. I think deals like Zetterberg's pushed the envelope and then Kovalchuk's initial deal just went way overboard and was denied.


I agree with you about the front-heavy contracts. But my 10 million reference point is not out of thin air. I was plainly stating that player salaries are not simply based on the cap and the cap alone. Obviously they have a lot to do with relativity - that is to say for example, David Jones' contract set the bar for other 20-25 goal scorers' salaries this free agency period. Crosby's salary must be cap-compliant, but also compliant RELATIVE to other players, otherwise it would just seem ridiculous to a GM. For example, if Parise wanted 10 million, only the most desperate of teams would sign him for this, because relatively speaking it is ludicrous to pay Parise more than Crosby, Geno and Ovechkin. Taking the relativity point into consideration, I hope my overall point is now clear: Crosby 'settling' for 9 million is still ridiculous. Salaries are just too damn high.

The 20% maximum of a cap for a player's salary does not have to be reached even though I can see why it serves as a good standard. I just see no reason to pay a s***head like Crosby or any other bum that much money. Crosby shouldnt be paid any more than 10 mil or I'll cry like he does. :D
CAPGEEK.COM USER GENERATED ROSTER
My Custom Lineup
FORWARDS
Damien Brunner ($1.350m) / Pavel Datsyuk ($6.700m) / Johan Franzen ($3.955m)
Valtteri Filppula ($3.000m) / Henrik Zetterberg ($6.083m) / Mikael Samuelsson ($3.000m)
Danny Cleary ($2.800m) / Darren Helm ($2.125m) / Todd Bertuzzi ($2.075m)
Drew Miller ($0.838m) / Justin Abdelkader ($1.200m) / Jordin Tootoo ($1.900m)
Gustav Nyquist ($0.875m)
DEFENSEMEN
Niklas Kronwall ($4.750m) / Kyle Quincey ($3.775m)
Jay Bouwmeester ($6.680m) / Ian White ($2.875m)
Jonathan Ericsson ($3.250m) / Brendan Smith ($0.875m)
Jakub Kindl ($0.883m) /
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Jimmy Howard ($2.250m)
Jonas Gustavsson ($1.500m)

#56 Hatethedrake!

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Posted 27 June 2012 - 03:40 PM


Ok so all Kenny has to do is sign Parise, Doan, Prust, Suter and Montoya.


CAPGEEK.COM USER GENERATED ROSTER
My Custom Lineup
FORWARDS
Zach Parise ($7.000m) / Pavel Datsyuk ($6.700m) / Shane Doan ($4.550m)
Valtteri Filppula ($3.000m) / Henrik Zetterberg ($6.083m) / Johan Franzen ($3.955m)
Danny Cleary ($2.800m) / Darren Helm ($2.125m) / Todd Bertuzzi ($2.075m)
Brandon Prust ($1.500m) / Justin Abdelkader ($1.500m) / Patrick Eaves ($1.200m)
Gustav Nyquist ($0.875m) / Drew Miller ($0.838m)
DEFENSEMEN
Ryan Suter ($7.000m) / Ian White ($2.875m)
Niklas Kronwall ($4.750m) / Kyle Quincey ($3.000m)
Brendan Smith ($0.875m) / Jonathan Ericsson ($3.250m)
Jakub Kindl ($0.883m)
GOALTENDERS
Jimmy Howard ($2.250m)
Al Montoya ($1.000m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $70,200,000; CAP PAYROLL: $70,083,712; BONUSES: $37,500
CAP SPACE (23-man roster): $116,288

Jordan Tootoo will wreck shop.

We need someone like Parise that can penetrate the box.-blueadams

#57 pucktividi

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Posted 27 June 2012 - 05:47 PM

9-10 mill.?Is Garth Snow somehow involved? :nuke:

I'd rather split that money on signing 2 veterans on 1year contract Doan +Jagr than signing Parise long term with such a ridiculous cap hit

#58 GMRwings1983

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Posted 27 June 2012 - 07:34 PM

If we miss out on Messi then Robin van Persie would be my second choice. Or if we want a Swede to mesh we can try for Zlatan Ibrahimovic.



I hesitate to even mention Crosby in the same sentence as Steve Yzerman but that sounds like something Stevie would have done. Oh yeah, he did.


How about your boy Torres? LOL
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#59 IllinoisRedWingsFan

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Posted 27 June 2012 - 09:47 PM

Here's my thought. Even with the $10 Million I still say go for it. Since if we can front load it will reduce the cap hit.

#60 Johnz96

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Posted 28 June 2012 - 12:55 PM

Parise/Semin - Datsyuk - Doan
Franzen - Zetterberg - Filppula
Cleary - Helm - Bertuzzi/Nyquist/Mueller
Miller/Eaves - Abdelkader - Nyquist/Mueller/Beruzzi/Moen/Tootoo/Prust(I think he wants too much for a 4th liner)
with Mursak and Emmerton fighting it out for time

Kronwall - Smith
Quincey - Salvadore/Ericsson/Kindl
Ericsson/Salvadore/Kindl - Ericsson/Salvadore/Kindl

I think that would leave us a room to trade for or acquire one of the many big physical power forwards who could be UFAs next year or Weber or another right shooting d-man

I think given the opportunity Smith will be a Calder candidate and Kindl needs some time (let's see what he can do)or he will never be as good as he can be, his development may already be stunted

Svitov's contract with Ufa Salavat Yulayev expires at the end of the season. I would make a serious pitch for him at the end of the year especially if we can't get a big physical bottom 6 presence. He is big, strong, nasty, great on faceoffs and considered one of the best defensive forwards in the KHL. I don't think there would be any tampering charges if we spoke to him before their season is over




(Svitov is 15 in white started this huge brawl game was called after less than 3 minutes)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQAyHczFyBU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dIPKgD5rpXU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1mbJ5Y7LbQY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d4K9T_-lw5c (nothing to do with Svitov but interesting to see Fedorov trying to stick up for his bro )





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