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The Grass Is Always Greener - Johan Franzen

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#21 haroldsnepsts

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Posted 29 June 2012 - 03:59 PM

Is this why Zetterberg and Datsyuk make almost twice as much as Franzen? I mean, you get what you pay for, right?

They don't make almost twice as much as Franzen, their cap hit is just higher. Franzen is signed through 2020 with the last 3 years being 2, 1, then 1 mill to get his hit down. That's about Holland's cap manipulation, not their relative pay this past season.

Mule was paid $5.25 mill this year, compared to 6.7 for Dats and $7.4 for Z.

Either way I don't think floating is something that should be excused by a player's salary. Teams that win have players who bust their ass to fulfill their role every second of every shift. That sure doesn't sound like Franzen.

It's not that I think the Wings should trade him, but I'd love for Babcock to sit him when he's floating out there.

#22 ElCapitan

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Posted 29 June 2012 - 04:29 PM

It's not that I think the Wings should trade him, but I'd love for Babcock to sit him when he's floating out there.


I think that's what has to happen.

#23 Nightfall

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Posted 29 June 2012 - 05:35 PM

I don't, but the LA Kings do, and it seems to work well for them.

Does anyone who defends Franzen by using stats actually watch the Wings play?

IMHO, Franzen "floats" a lot less than people here say who "watch the games". He is not paid for speed. He is paid to be a power forward.
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#24 korrowan

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Posted 29 June 2012 - 05:38 PM

IMHO, Franzen "floats" a lot less than people here say who "watch the games". He is not paid for speed. He is paid to be a power forward.


To be a power forward you cannot be afraid the crease and actually check someone. Franzen avoids going within 10 feet of the net most of the game.

Edited by korrowan, 29 June 2012 - 05:39 PM.


#25 Nightfall

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Posted 29 June 2012 - 05:40 PM

They don't make almost twice as much as Franzen, their cap hit is just higher. Franzen is signed through 2020 with the last 3 years being 2, 1, then 1 mill to get his hit down. That's about Holland's cap manipulation, not their relative pay this past season.

Mule was paid $5.25 mill this year, compared to 6.7 for Dats and $7.4 for Z.

Either way I don't think floating is something that should be excused by a player's salary. Teams that win have players who bust their ass to fulfill their role every second of every shift. That sure doesn't sound like Franzen.

It's not that I think the Wings should trade him, but I'd love for Babcock to sit him when he's floating out there.

All professionals should be busting their ass every second of every shift. That doesn't happen though. Especially in the dog days of the regular season.

IMHO, people getting on Franzen for floating could be saying that Z was floating as well in the first part of the regular season.

To be a power forward you cannot be afraid the crease and actually check someone.

Hrm, you definitely don't watch many Wings games do you?
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#26 korrowan

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Posted 29 June 2012 - 05:43 PM

All professionals should be busting their ass every second of every shift. That doesn't happen though. Especially in the dog days of the regular season.

IMHO, people getting on Franzen for floating could be saying that Z was floating as well in the first part of the regular season.


Hrm, you definitely don't watch many Wings games do you?


Nope just every single game over the last 7 years.

#27 Wing Across The Pond

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Posted 29 June 2012 - 06:23 PM

To be a power forward you cannot be afraid the crease and actually check someone. Franzen avoids going within 10 feet of the net most of the game.

Franzen is an enigma to me. I don't understand how we draft big guys like Franzen and Erikson and they don't know how to use their bodies. I want to like Franzen but he makes it increasinly difficult every year. Its like he's hudler stuck in a giants body. He pretty much need to take this summer to find his balls and then be sat down by Babcock who should slap him in the face and tell him he's in a mans league and learn the term "drive to the net". I have no clue why Franzen plays the way he does. Is he scared? Is he just lazy? Only he knows why he does the stuff he does but its like he's allergic to going to the net someone has to do it and it mind as well be him because no one else will and no one else has a big body like that to push his way in. The few times that he does go to the net throughout the season he creates outstanding scoring changes even if he doesn't score on them. I get so excited when he does it, but then you hardly see it happen especially when it matter in th playoffs.

I really believe the problem is with us, not with Franzen.

For some reason when he signed his new deal fans developed unrealistic expectations for him and they don't match-up with what he's capable of or what the team actually expects of him. Franzen is not going to be a 50 goal scorer, he's a consistent 25-30 goal guy who will put up around 50-60 pts.

The idea that he's lazy is a fan thing, the players call him "Mule" for a reason. Even Babcock who got annoyed with his play near the end of this year seems to speak only positively about him.

Other than guys on entry level contracts it would be near impossible to find a player who produces more for the amount he gets paid.

Franzen is not overpaid for his production. The team itself was streaky it wasn't just Franzen, and I don't think calling him lazy is really fair. Just cause he doesn't dominate shift in and shift out like Datsyuk used to doesn't mean he's lazy... Unrealistic expectations


I honestly don't think people like Franzen and Ericsson are there to dominate. Yeah they don't use their size that much but seriously how often can you say they've been hit hard? If any of us played professional hockey I'd say 90% of us would probably not try to hit a guy like Chara (bit of an extreme example) as much as we would a guy like St. Louis (again extreme example) because 1) it wouldn't have that great an effect and 2) there would be more of a chance at us injuring/hurting ourselves by hitting someone that much bigger. If bigger players on the Wings don't generally hit that much or use their size as effectively as people would expect then maybe it's because they're told not to. Imagine if what I've outlined is actually true, after all it's just a theory I thought of when reading through the comments, and people didn't actively try to hit a big guy like Franzen as much, the space that he'd be left would be a lot greater than if he was hounded all the time. Perhaps he doesn't get involved in all the dirty areas because Babs knows just how good a shot he's got on him when he's got the space. If that's the case, make sure he had all the space available to him, even if it did mean making him look as though he's just skating around and avoiding people most nights. I don't think he's particularly lazy but maybe he's just trying to overthink things too much with what he's been told to do. After all this is a professional sports team, and they all play a game that their coach tells them to play. Yes some people like Dats have the personal creativity to pull off amazing moves and fool defenders but he's still playing the game that Babs tells him to. Perhaps when Franzen is considered "streaky" he's just relaxing a bit more and playing more naturally, then Babs asks him to remember the gameplan and his point productions drop.

Obviously I can't claim to know just what's going on here, like the OP I'm just setting forth a possible scenario that I happened to think about whilst reading through. If an overall gameplan dictates that players are incouraged to play smarter hockey rather than physical or aggressive hockey (which traditionally - 20 years or so - has been the case somewhat) then players like Franzen are always going to get stick from the fans saying their lazy and they don't use their size. Nick could have probably hit a few years off some guys careers if he had tried, but he didn't because making the smart play was more important and more effective most of the time. Even Kronwall's hits, although fairly frequent, have been pretty sure things - guy skating out of his own zone along the boards, bam - I don't think I've ever seen him try something similar in his own zone because one move by the puck carrier and he's way out of position.

In conclusion (I understand I've waffled on an AWFUL lot :P ) I think Franzen may just be the victim of a team-wide system rather than his own ego or desires. In other words I guess I'm outlining an argument to suggest that Franzen is actually giving a lot MORE to this team than is outwardly visible. Not that I'm actually arguing said argument :)

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#28 Red Crazy

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Posted 29 June 2012 - 06:23 PM

So if those saying that Franzen's contract is not that bad then he should be easy to unload right? Franzen is lazy. He is not streaky. But hey if he is so great and his contract is so good I say dump his ass and get someone that cares. For the same money Doan is available.

#29 GoalieManPat

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Posted 29 June 2012 - 06:25 PM

IMHO, Franzen "floats" a lot less than people here say who "watch the games". He is not paid for speed. He is paid to be a power forward.


Floating has nothing to do with speed. You can work your ass off and still be slow. It has to do with the fact that you never see Franzen as Mickey would say "picking them up and putting them down". He just coasts around. Power forwards go hard to the net. You cant be a power forward and just glide to the net. Franzen has been gliding the last 3 years.

#30 GoWings1905

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Posted 29 June 2012 - 07:03 PM

IMHO, Franzen "floats" a lot less than people here say who "watch the games". He is not paid for speed. He is paid to be a power forward.


There's a lot of people that watch games that feel Franzen floats. I bet a large majority of Red Wings fans would classify Franzen as lazy. This isn't some random concept perpetuated by a few fans.

As for being a power forward, Franzen isn't really doing that either. Hudler went to the net more in the playoff series than Franzen did. For a dude with as much size as Franzen has, he rarely utilizes it. He isn't physical, nor willing to play in the tough areas of the ice most of the time. I will give him credit that he has a great wrist shot and can score goals effectively in that manner. Though in no way would I call Franzen a true power forward.
 
 
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#31 Bannedforlife

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Posted 29 June 2012 - 09:06 PM

I think nothing will help Franzen more than acquiring an elite-level scorer to play on the first line. Take the pressure off of him to be "the guy" and he should do much better.

And if that doesnt help, trade his lazy ass.

#32 Doc Holliday

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Posted 29 June 2012 - 09:35 PM

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#33 joesuffP

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Posted 29 June 2012 - 09:46 PM

What frustrated me about Franzen was he could never hold on to the puck or make the right play offensively... He goes to the net harder than most of our players and I didn't notice any floating really offensively, although his defense left a lot to be desired. But this is just one season

#34 cnot19

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Posted 29 June 2012 - 10:39 PM

Im not a franzen lover however I take him for what he is. He's never gonna be a hard working power forward like gezlaf and the like. The guy has a nice shot good stride and a nose for the net. I'm not a fan of his softness and wouldn't oppose a trade. For me franzen is what he hs and will never be what he's not.Sure there re harder working players and better options, but it looks like we're stuck with him. His contract is also bad

Edited by cnot19, 29 June 2012 - 11:23 PM.

Get me a real fourth line Kenny!

#35 Nightfall

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Posted 29 June 2012 - 11:31 PM

Nope just every single game over the last 7 years.

Sure you aren't just sleeping through them?

Just based on a lot of the opinions here, I am glad only the opinions of the management of the Wings matter. 4 cups in 15 years means a lot to me and I trust in their assessment. Franzen, IMHO, is a great signing for this team. People may not like him, like Hudler, but they produce. I like how some of the fans here want to dump Hudler and Franzen, which is over 50 goals of production, and with no real plan to replace those goals. This team is better off with Franzen than without him thats for sure. Especially at the bargain price they are paying for him.
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#36 Heaten

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Posted 29 June 2012 - 11:43 PM

Franzen is an enigma to me. I don't understand how we draft big guys like Franzen and Erikson and they don't know how to use their bodies. I want to like Franzen but he makes it increasinly difficult every year. Its like he's hudler stuck in a giants body. He pretty much need to take this summer to find his balls and then be sat down by Babcock who should slap him in the face and tell him he's in a mans league and learn the term "drive to the net". I have no clue why Franzen plays the way he does. Is he scared? Is he just lazy? Only he knows why he does the stuff he does but its like he's allergic to going to the net someone has to do it and it mind as well be him because no one else will and no one else has a big body like that to push his way in. The few times that he does go to the net throughout the season he creates outstanding scoring changes even if he doesn't score on them. I get so excited when he does it, but then you hardly see it happen especially when it matter in th playoffs.


You're right, Holland should draft better players with those 7th round picks. Holland should have traded the 4th and 7th round pick to Edmonton for their 1st overall... then maybe Holland could have landed those big bodied players that play physical :/

#37 ozone923

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Posted 29 June 2012 - 11:47 PM

Honestly, I like Franzen but he isn't amazing. The same could be said of Zetterberg, they both score minimaly and have WAY to big of contracts. Still if I could I wouldn't get rid of Zetterberg. I might consider Franzen though.


what the f***....

Hell yeah you wouldn't get rid of Zetterberg. I don't care how big that contract is. Guy took us on his back right to the 08 cup.

#38 Nev

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Posted 30 June 2012 - 02:43 AM

How many of you give 100% effort at your job 100% of the time? How many of you have played a sport, tried your damndest and things just didn't go as well as you wanted? It's a sport. It's an exhausting sport. Not all your shots will go in. Not everything always works. And sometimes you get lucky.



Dats busts his ass every night

Hank busts his ass every night

Flip busts his ass every night

Helm busts his ass every second of every shift of every night.

They might not always score, they might not always be the best player, they might not always win - but they will always give their all. They might be playing injured, lacking confidence, not getting the bounces - but they will still try.
"If I can be totally honest, it's not a lot of guys you get impressed by. Actually, it's no one else but him. From the bench, to see what move he makes -- you're like, 'I wish I could do that.' Sometimes you sit on the bench and just think, 'wow,' and you look over to the other bench and they sit there and shake their heads, too. He has great, great skills. I'm probably not going to play with another player who has the kind of skills he has." Mikael Samuelsson on Pavel Datsyuk

#39 Jocke

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Posted 30 June 2012 - 05:18 AM

Honestly, I like Franzen but he isn't amazing. The same could be said of Zetterberg, they both score minimaly and have WAY to big of contracts. Still if I could I wouldn't get rid of Zetterberg. I might consider Franzen though.


Zetterberg was, as per usual, our best player in the playoffs. He is also our team's future captain, so I don't think he is overpayed at all.

Franzén on the other hand..

#40 GoalieManPat

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Posted 30 June 2012 - 09:10 AM

Im not a franzen lover however I take him for what he is. He's never gonna be a hard working power forward like gezlaf and the like.


He very well could be. He broke into the league because of his hard work. Since his lifetime contract he hasnt felt the need to work that hard anymore.





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