252 replies to this topic

[bogeygolfer]

as much as I wanted the wings to sign them, niether parise nor suter are top 30 players in the league. The wild are paying them like they are top 5 players. That is not a recipe for success.
these contract will look terrible in a few years and they wont have the option to eat that salary like detroit would. They arent able to insure them properly, so if either gets injured they might get cap relief but their salaries will still eat into their payroll.

[Crymson]

as much as I wanted the wings to sign them, niether parise nor suter are top 30 players in the league. The wild are paying them like they are top 5 players. That is not a recipe for success.
these contract will look terrible in a few years and they wont have the option to eat that salary like detroit would. They arent able to insure them properly, so if either gets injured they might get cap relief but their salaries will still eat into their payroll.

The Wild currently have an average offense, a below-average defense, and $2.8m in cap space with which to remedy that.

Edited by Crymson, 04 July 2012 - 03:05 PM.

[haroldsnepsts]

Wrong: they said that when Shanahan AND Yzerman left. And the team nearly made it to the finals that season, even with Kronwall and Schneider out. And then they said that the Wings had declined AGAIN by leaving Bertuzzi and Calder unsigned and only replacing them with Drake. And the Wings won the Cup.

Etc. etc.



They deleted 40 goals from Shanahan as well, and they signed a goaltender whom everyone thought was on his last legs. All sorts of pundits said that the Wings would miss the playoffs.



Such as????

I've answered this already Crymson. It's not our job to make a list of all the potential trades Holland could've made over the last few seasons. Especially because you'd just shoot them down saying we dont' know they would go for that.

As you've even said, a GM's job is to plan for the future. This future was a known thing for the Wings, and they don't exactly look prepared for it. When you look at our blueline right now, it's not an unreasonable complaint to say the Wings could've been better prepared for this transition. Holland giving up a first for Quincey was a desperation move. Holland having to compete so hard for Suter was a desperation move.

Your obsession with people complaining right now is like the old joke "The food here is awful! And such small portions!"

If you don't like how people are reacting, no one is making you come read every thread here.

[Salviaman]

THEY TOOK MY JOB AGAIN!!!

[Crymson]

If you all think that trades are guaranteed to make a team better, look at San Jose. They made two major trades and ended up bombing in the first round of the playoffs

I've answered this already Crymson. It's not our job to make a list of all the potential trades Holland could've made over the last few seasons. Especially because you'd just shoot them down saying we dont' know they would go for that.

As you've even said, a GM's job is to plan for the future. This future was a known thing for the Wings, and they don't exactly look prepared for it. When you look at our blueline right now, it's not an unreasonable complaint to say the Wings could've been better prepared for this transition. Holland giving up a first for Quincey was a desperation move. Holland having to compete so hard for Suter was a desperation move.

If you've no concrete suggestions, then you're simply speculating that there was any excellent course for the Wings to take. How many good UFA defensemen have been on the market in the past three offseasons? How much chance did the Wings have to land them? What would the Wings have needed to give to trade for any of them? The simple fact is that you and everyone else on these boards are unaware of the details. You say that Holland "should" have done something to make the team better. That's easy to say, but you're not aware of what he *COULD* have reasonably done.

Edited by Crymson, 04 July 2012 - 03:12 PM.

[haroldsnepsts]

If you all think that trades are guaranteed to make a team better, look at San Jose. They made two major trades and ended up bombing in the first round of the playoffs



If you've no concrete suggestions, then you're simply speculating that there was any excellent course for the Wings to take. How many good UFA defensemen have been on the market in the past three offseasons? How much chance did the Wings have to land them? What would the Wings have needed to give to trade for any of them? The simple fact is that you and everyone else on these boards are unaware of the details. You say that Holland "should" have done something to make the team better. That's easy to say, but you're not aware of what he *COULD* have reasonably done.

As I said in the other thread, it's not my job to come up with options to satisfy you. I'm not going to continue this debate in multiple threads.

I'm sorry you're unhappy with people criticizing Holland, but if it upsets you so much perhaps you should just not enter those threads.

[esteef]

If you've no concrete suggestions, then you're simply speculating that there was any excellent course for the Wings to take. How many good UFA defensemen have been on the market in the past three offseasons? How much chance did the Wings have to land them? What would the Wings have needed to give to trade for any of them? The simple fact is that you and everyone else on these boards are unaware of the details. You say that Holland "should" have done something to make the team better. That's easy to say, but you're not aware of what he *COULD* have reasonably done.

So because people don't want to turn responding to you into a f***in' project that means you're right? NOT! I agree with harold, Lidstrom and Stuart leaving were not surprises and Holland is now trying to play catch up for all those times he didn't want to "overpay" or felt that he was "happy with our team".

esteef

[Lord Stanely]

Holland absolutely should have been working to upgrade the team over the past few years- with who: I don't know - would have to go back and see who was available via free agency and will never know who was available via trade or what draft picks were available.
Fischer health issues- who replaced him?
Rafalski retires- White replaced him????
WHY NOT WILLIE MITCHELL!?!?!?!
Stewi leaves- who was here two years ago to replace him??? Knowing it would happen.
No early replacement for Lids- that should have started happening 2 plus years ago.

As far as people griping about Suter/Parise going to Minni over Detroit here is my take. I was born in Warren- grew up near Adrian MI. Moved to Chicago (NW Indiana) lived there for 18 years and now live 3hours from Minni in Iowa. I worked for a company based out of MInni and have been there many times. Visit family in Detroit area often.

Minni is an AWESOME town. More entertainment per capita than anywhere in the world. Great food. Beautiful scenic. Not bombed out like Beruit, err I mean Detroit (let's be serious about that for once- Detroit proper is a hell hole- even though we all LOVE it). They both have family there. I would move to Michigan if my father was still alive if I had an opportunity work wise. But without family I would decide on MInni. I would as a player wonder if Detroit wasn't slipping- I think they have lost mystique around the league with players and now Lids is gone so yeah I would wonder "do they have a chance going forward with no Lids, older players, no picks, no young talent, etc".

If or one can't blame them. I think the ownerships seriousness, tradition, current players and fan base would be a boost for Detroit but I think we have some holes that could detract from this.

My 2 cents.

Oh and I still think getting rid of Commodore 64 was a mistake- when I watched him actually get into the lineup he looked like the only guy that would play DEFENSE. Talking stay at home nasty D- not comparing him with Lids, Kroner- just thought he was never really utilized properly and hmmm wouldn't it be useful to have somebody like him right now this season with our holes?

[Detroit # 1 Fan]

Disappointing. The pressure is now on Holland and the staff to rethink the offseason and get creative. On defence we have a #2 (Kronwall), 2 #3/4's (White,Quincey), solid #5 (Ericsson), a budding star in Smith and then Kindl. We have to find a way to get a #1, or at the very least another solid #2 and hope for Smiths growth to come alot faster then expected. Up front we added a bit more size in Sammy, and some good grit in Tootoo, but we could still use some speed and goal scoring. It'll take an arm and a leg for Nash, and even though he's my #1 choice, it just doesn't make sense to sell of assets for him when defence is our biggest need. Will be interesting going forward.

Also, the Wild are still not a "great team". Very good top 6 forwards, not so much bottom 6. Decent top pairing (Suter-Gilbert), after that nothing. Good goaltending, they'll be 5-8 in the West. We're still a better team at this point in time.

Edited by Detroit # 1 Fan, 04 July 2012 - 03:40 PM.

[Bring Back The Bruise Bros]

We should just trade for Trevor Gillies, and instruct him to take out Suter and Parise every time we play them. They're both dead to me.

Gillies signed in the KHL


This all caps off an extremely horrible day.

[LeftWinger]

Suter can have been a part of our success for the next 13 years. He would have be an intricle part of our defense for the next 13 years...The Wings can a will win without him....unfortunately, he cannot win without us...if it were down to Nashville, Detroit or Minn, the obvious choice was Detroit....look at the track record, we never miss the playoffs, Holland has Iltich's wallet in his hand to make sure this remain competitve every year...are they Stanley Cup favorites every year? Of course not, but once you make the playoffs, anything can happen, and they make the playoffs....always....Minnesota doesn't. 3 appearances the last 11 years. ONCE past the 1st round... I don't need to quote Detroit's accolades in the last 11 years, but if ANYONE was or is worried about what will happen with Lidstrom gone, once Dats retires and Z retires....let's just look at what happened when we lost Yzerman, Shanahan, Fedorov, Hull, Robitaille, Hasek (the first time,) Konstantinov, Kozlov, Larionov....what happened since then?

Conference Finals
Stanley Cup Champion
Stanley Cup Runner Up
...and then a couple of early exits...

setback? Sure, but between 2002 and 2007 what happened?

1st round loss, 2nd round loss, 1st round loss...

Point is, the history has proven that Holland will always keep this team competitive EVERY year. Ilitch has an open wallet up to the Cap, every year! Guarantee, they have a plan right now and if the feel the price is right, Rick Nash or Bobby Ryan will be on this team...if they chose the UFA route, they will pitch their best at Semin, Doan, Mueller, Winnick, et al...

Sure Suter would have helped, but now they have to persevere and find that next guy to help. I'd give Carle $5M, inquire about Yandle or Bogosian or Bouwmeester... Holland will fill this team and will keep this team a perennial playoff team....history has proven this, and history has proven that Minnesota will not....especially now with half their Cap tied up in 5 guys...

[dropkickshanahans]

So because people don't want to turn responding to you into a f***in' project that means you're right? NOT! I agree with harold, Lidstrom and Stuart leaving were not surprises and Holland is now trying to play catch up for all those times he didn't want to "overpay" or felt that he was "happy with our team".

esteef

I can see it both ways. Perhaps he could have had a little more foresight to keep the ship sailing strong, but the last thing I want to see in the future is a team full of bad contracts because of fear from not being able to compete for a cup. We're just going to have to accept that the Wings will possibly decline in the near future. The brass has to continue to build through the draft and make smart signings/trades if the opportunity comes up.

[LeftWinger]

Call Anaheim right now and package Filppula for Ryan...they like Filppula, and if they get him, they will also get Selanne back who would love to play with Fil.

I would still give Jeremy Welsh a call to add to our growing youth, sign Semin, pursue Doan HARD! Again, give Carle a nice FAT contract....I hate to bring this up, but Holland has always wanted Kubina too...could be something he would do...

[Crymson]

Holland absolutely should have been working to upgrade the team over the past few years- with who: I don't know - would have to go back and see who was available via free agency and will never know who was available via trade or what draft picks were available.

Aye; you don't know.

Fischer health issues- who replaced him?

You're going pretty far back there. Are you aware that the Wings won the cup two seasons later?

Rafalski retires- White replaced him????
WHY NOT WILLIE MITCHELL!?!?!?!

Willie Mitchell signed a two-year contract in the 2011 offseason. He was, as such, not an option for the Wings to sign after Rafalski retired in 2011.

Stewi leaves- who was here two years ago to replace him??? Knowing it would happen.

It was not clear until partway through last season season that Stuart might leave for the west coast. To say that Holland knew this two years ago is completely wrong, as even Stuart did not know until this past season.

No early replacement for Lids- that should have started happening 2 plus years ago.

Feel free to give some examples on whom that could have been.

Edited by Crymson, 04 July 2012 - 04:15 PM.

[kipwinger]

Jesus, I went camping all weekend in the UP and this is what I come back to? No Suter, no Parise, no high end talent of any type. But Mikael f****** Samuelsson and Jordin Tootoo! What the hell happened?

I hope to God Kenny has a trick or two up his sleeve because there is no way in hell that Mikael Samuelsson and Jordin Tootoo should be wearing Red Wings sweaters next season.

Edited by kipwinger, 04 July 2012 - 04:16 PM.

[esteef]

Feel free to give some examples on whom that could have been.

Any f***in' d-man that's changed teams in the last 3 years. How about that smart-ass?

esteef

[Nightfall]

Call Anaheim right now and package Filppula for Ryan...they like Filppula, and if they get him, they will also get Selanne back who would love to play with Fil.

I would still give Jeremy Welsh a call to add to our growing youth, sign Semin, pursue Doan HARD! Again, give Carle a nice FAT contract....I hate to bring this up, but Holland has always wanted Kubina too...could be something he would do...

Talk about desperation moves.....

They won't take Flip for Ryan straight up.
Carle isn't worth a FAT contract.

[Crymson]

Any f***in' d-man that's changed teams in the last 3 years. How about that smart-ass?

esteef

To say that any defensemen would have sufficed is, I think, an obviously untrue statement. As such, I shall assume that you meant highly-skilled and effective defensemen. Please provide examples of such.

Edited by Crymson, 04 July 2012 - 04:37 PM.

[darkmanx]

What would be awesome is if Detroit met Minny in the first round of the playoffs and swept them.

[GMRwings1983]

What would be awesome is if Detroit met Minny in the first round of the playoffs and swept them.

We almost got swept in the first round last year, and that was with Lidstrom and Stuart.