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The Next Move


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#301 Shaman

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 01:20 AM

There will be no trades for a forward this offseason, Holland isn't that stupid. Especially these high profile players where you're pretty much guaranteed to get screwed over. With the FA pool being so bad this year we acquired enough forwards that we can use them to trade for something we don't have enough of, defensemen. Are you people really that short sighted that when you hear a high profile player is on the trading block you don't even take into consideration the shape our team is in right now. We've upgraded our forwards already, now we have to trade for defence. Signing Doan or Semin is all you can ask for in forward department.

The Wings have not upgrade on Forward, they have move laterally on forward at best. Sammy is a year older and playing with worse line mates, so no way hes a 50 point player, especially if he lands on the third line. Brunner is an unproven commodity, and shouldn't be counted on to be anything until he shows he can make the transition to the NA game. Tootoo is a spare part that was benched by the Preds at the end of last season and during the playoffs on a Preds team that is not deep at Forward. Add to this Bertuzzi and Cleary are both a year older and not showing signs of not declining I don't see how you can say they are better in the forward department. Add the less dangerous offense to a defense that has taken at least a step and a half backwards, well... the bright side is a down year could reduce Howard's value on his next contract anyway.
Feuer und Wasser kommt nicht zusammen
Kann man nicht binden sind nicht verwandt
In Funken versunken steh ich in Flammen
und bin im Wasser verbrannt
Im Wasser verbrannt

#302 number9

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 02:01 PM

The Wings have not upgrade on Forward, they have move laterally on forward at best. Sammy is a year older and playing with worse line mates, so no way hes a 50 point player, especially if he lands on the third line. Brunner is an unproven commodity, and shouldn't be counted on to be anything until he shows he can make the transition to the NA game. Tootoo is a spare part that was benched by the Preds at the end of last season and during the playoffs on a Preds team that is not deep at Forward. Add to this Bertuzzi and Cleary are both a year older and not showing signs of not declining I don't see how you can say they are better in the forward department. Add the less dangerous offense to a defense that has taken at least a step and a half backwards, well... the bright side is a down year could reduce Howard's value on his next contract anyway.


Filppula - Datsyuk - Franzen
Bertuzzi - Zetterberg - Hudler
Cleary - Helm - Holmstrom
Miller - Abdelkader - Eaves

Filppula - Datsyuk - Franzen
Bertuzzi - Zetterberg - Brunner ------- Bruns is supposedly grittier n faster than Huds and alot of teams were after him. big ? though
Cleary - Helm - Samuelsson ---------- Homer had 24pts in 74gp last year, Sammy had 28pts in 48gp
Tootoo - Abdelkader - Eaves ---------Toots had 30pts in 77gp last year, Miller had 25pts in 80gp, and Toots provides snarl/grit

So as we stand right now id say the bottom-6 definitely got better

The top-6 lost Huds...big whoop...I wouldn't be surprised if Nyquist made the team this year and adequately replaced him if Brunner can't. It's too soon to tell but my guess is the top-6 is pretty much the same caliber wise as it was last year.

Edited by number9, 10 July 2012 - 02:02 PM.


#303 The Axe

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 02:05 PM

We have not gotten any better at forward. That is clear. Semin and Doan would change that.

#304 SwedeLundin77

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 02:07 PM

I still don't understand the severity of people's fear for the upcoming season, given the roster we have now. We have plenty of depth up front and I'd be surprised if we don't at least trade some players for picks, but more than likely for a defenseman. I don't see our defense as being as bad as some crazies think it is. Is it going to take a hit? Yes, of course, but sometimes you need to have a little adversity to become a stronger team in the end, and that is what I believe you'll see with our present roster. Our offense is just as good as last year and I believe will contend for top 3 this season. We added some snarl and will have a little more grit to our game. Having a healthy Helm back is huge, as is Eaves (if he doesn't get traded for another asset).

I just think there is a lot of fear that is misappropriated. We tried hard to get the top players this offseason, and it just didn't end up that way, but that is no reason to freak out or start calling for Holland's head. I'm sure he's still working the phones.

Simmer down everyone!

#305 Shaman

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 02:09 PM

Filppula - Datsyuk - Franzen
Bertuzzi - Zetterberg - Hudler
Cleary - Helm - Holmstrom
Miller - Abdelkader - Eaves

Filppula - Datsyuk - Franzen
Bertuzzi - Zetterberg - Brunner ------- Bruns is supposedly grittier n faster than Huds and alot of teams were after him. big ? though
Cleary - Helm - Samuelsson ---------- Homer had 24pts in 74gp last year, Sammy had 28pts in 48gp
Tootoo - Abdelkader - Eaves ---------Toots had 30pts in 77gp last year, Miller had 25pts in 80gp, and Toots provides snarl/grit

So as we stand right now id say the bottom-6 definitely got better

The top-6 lost Huds...big whoop...I wouldn't be surprised if Nyquist made the team this year and adequately replaced him if Brunner can't. It's too soon to tell but my guess is the top-6 is pretty much the same caliber wise as it was last year.

Tootoo is not as good defensively, and will be a 14th forward on this team.

And a lot of 'ifs' in the top six, which with the questionable state of the back end is not what the Wings need. They need to not only make up the 50 pts and 25 goals of Hudler but also make up the goals that Lidstrom and Stuart prevented. I would honestly say that between Lidstrom and Stuart there were at least 20 goal prevented over replacement, and as many as 30 goals prevented. Lets take the middle of those two at 25 goals. This means to keep the same goals for/goals against differential they need make up for the 18 goals from Stuart and Lidstrom, the 25 goals from Hudler, and the goals prevented by Stuart and Lidstrom, this is a total of around 70 goals difference over last year. Now the question is the offense's ability to score coupled with the defenses ability to prevent goals able to account for that ~70 goals? I say if EVERYTHING goes perfectly, yes it is. But how many season does everything go perfectly? 82 games are not a sprint or a marathon, its a war of attrition.
Feuer und Wasser kommt nicht zusammen
Kann man nicht binden sind nicht verwandt
In Funken versunken steh ich in Flammen
und bin im Wasser verbrannt
Im Wasser verbrannt

#306 SwedeLundin77

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 02:39 PM

Tootoo is not as good defensively, and will be a 14th forward on this team.

And a lot of 'ifs' in the top six, which with the questionable state of the back end is not what the Wings need. They need to not only make up the 50 pts and 25 goals of Hudler but also make up the goals that Lidstrom and Stuart prevented. I would honestly say that between Lidstrom and Stuart there were at least 20 goal prevented over replacement, and as many as 30 goals prevented. Lets take the middle of those two at 25 goals. This means to keep the same goals for/goals against differential they need make up for the 18 goals from Stuart and Lidstrom, the 25 goals from Hudler, and the goals prevented by Stuart and Lidstrom, this is a total of around 70 goals difference over last year. Now the question is the offense's ability to score coupled with the defenses ability to prevent goals able to account for that ~70 goals? I say if EVERYTHING goes perfectly, yes it is. But how many season does everything go perfectly? 82 games are not a sprint or a marathon, its a war of attrition.


Yeah... I'm sure we'll have a 14th forward, riding the pine, making $1.9 million per season. Let's be a little more realistic here. Tootoo will be on the 4th line at least. He may even see some powerplay time in front of the net ala Holmstrom.

#307 LeftWinger

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 02:52 PM

I still don't understand the severity of people's fear for the upcoming season, given the roster we have now. We have plenty of depth up front and I'd be surprised if we don't at least trade some players for picks, but more than likely for a defenseman. I don't see our defense as being as bad as some crazies think it is. Is it going to take a hit? Yes, of course, but sometimes you need to have a little adversity to become a stronger team in the end, and that is what I believe you'll see with our present roster. Our offense is just as good as last year and I believe will contend for top 3 this season. We added some snarl and will have a little more grit to our game. Having a healthy Helm back is huge, as is Eaves (if he doesn't get traded for another asset).

I just think there is a lot of fear that is misappropriated. We tried hard to get the top players this offseason, and it just didn't end up that way, but that is no reason to freak out or start calling for Holland's head. I'm sure he's still working the phones.

Simmer down everyone!


It's just the lack of top 6 depth. On a serious note, lets say the re-sign Abby, who then is on the outs? This worries me a bit. It'll be be a fight in training camp...you have to believe that Brunner will be on the roster along with Nyquist...Miller has given so much to this team and Eaves was playing awesome hockey when he got hurt...Add Doan to this mix and it just gets more crowded...

Sheesh! What a log jam!

Gustav Nyquist / Pavel Datsyuk / Johan Franzen
Valtteri Filppula / Henrik Zetterberg / Mikael Samuelsson
Todd Bertuzzi / Darren Helm / Damien Brunner
Danny Cleary / Justin Abdelkader / Jordin Tootoo
Jan Mursak / Patrick Eaves / Drew Miller
Cory Emmerton

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#308 The Axe

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 04:02 PM

Why would they sign tootoo at 2 mil per to sit? Come on.

#309 LeftWinger

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 04:42 PM

He's not gonna sit...this just pushes Miller/Eaves/Mursak/Emmerton further down the list....I really like Miller and Eaves....just don't know whats gonna shake down come training camp! I can deal without Emmy or Mursak, but right now even without those two, there are still too many forwards, with Abby and the possibility of Doan or Semin...I guess it's good to have depth in but how many of these guys will make it through waivers?

I think a trade is coming, but it just may be picks coming back to Holland...

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#310 The Axe

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 04:47 PM

Holland is too dumb to be involved in a trade. I bet we just go into camp with 33 forwards.

Edited by The Axe, 10 July 2012 - 04:47 PM.


#311 Crymson

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 04:56 PM

Holland is too dumb to be involved in a trade. I bet we just go into camp with 33 forwards.


Yep, Holland hasn't made any trades during his 14 years as GM.

#312 The Axe

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 05:15 PM

None without Bowman that have been notable.

#313 EvilleWing

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 05:24 PM

Fire Holland? Wow! Didnt realize there was such a large contingent from the crack smoking psych ward on LGW. Bunch of spoiled folks after 20+ yrs of success. What other teams can point to that success? The landscape is constantly changing and the organization including Holland have done a fantastic job over the yrs. Have faith. Time for youngsters to step up.

He's not gonna sit...this just pushes Miller/Eaves/Mursak/Emmerton further down the list....I really like Miller and Eaves....just don't know whats gonna shake down come training camp! I can deal without Emmy or Mursak, but right now even without those two, there are still too many forwards, with Abby and the possibility of Doan or Semin...I guess it's good to have depth in but how many of these guys will make it through waivers?

I think a trade is coming, but it just may be picks coming back to Holland...



#314 The Axe

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 05:30 PM

Our youngsters cant step up. Holland the Idiotic has a huge BONER for old crappy used to be's. Bertuzzi, Samuelsson, and Tootoo at 7 mil per instead of Murczak, Nyquist, and Tatar at 2.5 mil per. Gee, i wonder why we cant outbid Minnesota for Parise and Suter and re-energize the team? Oh yah, because our GM is too busy being an idiot.

#315 Bring Back The Bruise Bros

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 05:46 PM

Our youngsters cant step up. Holland the Idiotic has a huge BONER for old crappy used to be's. Bertuzzi, Samuelsson, and Tootoo at 7 mil per instead of Murczak, Nyquist, and Tatar at 2.5 mil per. Gee, i wonder why we cant outbid Minnesota for Parise and Suter and re-energize the team? Oh yah, because our GM is too busy being an idiot.

Tootoo's old? He's 29. Tootoo's a has been? Scored 30 points last year. More than many of our bottom 6ers.

Franzen-Datsyuk-Jarnkrok
Pulkkinen-Filppula-Nyquist
Abdelkader-Helm-Tatar
Mursak-Emmerton-Brunner

Hand us the Cup. Wouldn't want any veterans with experience that know how to win.
"Ice hockey is a form of disorderly conduct in which the score is kept."

RIP Bob Probert
RIP Wade Belak
RIP Derek Boogaard
RIP Rick Rypien

#316 The Axe

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 05:53 PM

Like Tootoo and all his cup wins? Bertuzzi really brings a lot of cup winning tradition in too. Ha! Ya had me and then you lost me. Good point though, Bx4. I hear what you are saying.

#317 Bring Back The Bruise Bros

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 05:55 PM

Like Tootoo and all his cup wins? Bertuzzi really brings a lot of cup winning tradition in too. Ha! Ya had me and then you lost me. Good point though, Bx4. I hear what you are saying.

You conveniently didn't mention Samuelsson.

Believe me, I was pissed off as hell when it was announced Bertuzzi signed for 2 more years. I would've been fine with one. I'm pissed that Samuelsson of all people gets a full NTC in his contract. However, I don't feel throwing in all of our prospects from GR will help anything.

Edited by Bring Back The Bruise Bros, 10 July 2012 - 05:56 PM.

"Ice hockey is a form of disorderly conduct in which the score is kept."

RIP Bob Probert
RIP Wade Belak
RIP Derek Boogaard
RIP Rick Rypien

#318 mmamolo

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 06:00 PM

Our youngsters cant step up. Holland the Idiotic has a huge BONER for old crappy used to be's. Bertuzzi, Samuelsson, and Tootoo at 7 mil per instead of Murczak, Nyquist, and Tatar at 2.5 mil per. Gee, i wonder why we cant outbid Minnesota for Parise and Suter and re-energize the team? Oh yah, because our GM is too busy being an idiot.

It's honestly painful reading the crap you use to formulate posts. You exaggerate way too much.

On to the topic:

I honestly wouldn't be surprised to see Nyquist start the year back in GR. He still has options and Holland hates to lose other players when there are options. I think Brunner gets his shot first but we may see some movement back and forth to GR for him as well. My guess for the start of the season would be:

Franzen - Datsyuk - Samuelsson
Filppula - Zetterberg - Brunner
Bertuzzi - Helm - Cleary
Eaves - Abdelkader - Tootoo
Miller, Mursak

If Doan gets signed he'd replace Samuelsson on the Datsyuk line. Samuelsson would shove down to the 4rd line and push Bertuzzi to the fourth line with Eaes sitting. Mursak would probably be gone.
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#319 Z Winged Dangler

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 06:09 PM

It's just the lack of top 6 depth. On a serious note, lets say the re-sign Abby, who then is on the outs? This worries me a bit. It'll be be a fight in training camp...you have to believe that Brunner will be on the roster along with Nyquist...Miller has given so much to this team and Eaves was playing awesome hockey when he got hurt...Add Doan to this mix and it just gets more crowded...

Sheesh! What a log jam!

Gustav Nyquist / Pavel Datsyuk / Johan Franzen
Valtteri Filppula / Henrik Zetterberg / Mikael Samuelsson
Todd Bertuzzi / Darren Helm / Damien Brunner
Danny Cleary / Justin Abdelkader / Jordin Tootoo
Jan Mursak / Patrick Eaves / Drew Miller
Cory Emmerton

maybe Holland's stockpiling forwards cause we have the annual injury parade half way through the season :nhl_crach:

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#320 Hatethedrake!

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 06:13 PM

maybe Holland's stockpiling forwards cause we have the annual injury parade half way through the season :nhl_crach:


Perhaps the plan is to convert 2 of them into dmen. Ericsson, Dandenault, Fedorov. We need to bring Bowman back in order for Holland to succeed apparently. Some posters believe Holland is a mind numbing dolt who can't even figure out how to use the computer in his office without Bowman's help.
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We need someone like Parise that can penetrate the box.-blueadams





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