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#21 YougotDatsyuked

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Posted 05 July 2012 - 07:21 AM

I wouldn't count Kenny out yet. He had to have an alternative plan in case he missed out on Parise and Suter. He alluded to the fact it may take the rest of the summer. Teams are not going to just give away top players. I'm looking forward to seeing what Kenny does. I think any Yandle trade has to invlove Filppula going back the other way. I'm just not sure what else Kenny would have to add to make the Yotes make the deal.



The Red Wings DO NOT need fake fans like you. Go cheer for Minnesota.

I have changed my opinion on trading flip, it would have to be a trade that blows me away. When Pavel was hurt last year he was a point per game player, not saying that he could sustain that over a course of the year but he doesn't need a super star to produce. So I would just sit on the money roll with the young guys. Worse case scenario we get a better draft pick and the young players get experience.

Yes Axe needs to go away...

#22 F.Michael

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Posted 05 July 2012 - 07:23 AM

I have to agree with this. The amount of diarrhea like posts coming from people here are really disgusting. The offseason isn't over. We haven't made our last move yet. Give the man some time to make things happen.


Dumbest post ever....

Nyquist has no chance to make a name for himself after the way he played last season?
Brunner has no chance to make a name for himself after dominating in the swiss league?

Were those seasons in the NHL?

Get a clue - anything outside of the NHL doesn't mean much...Take off the rose colored Red Wing glasses.

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#23 ogreslayer

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Posted 05 July 2012 - 07:25 AM

I have to agree with this. The amount of diarrhea like posts coming from people here are really disgusting. The offseason isn't over. We haven't made our last move yet. Give the man some time to make things happen.

Exactly. With Kenny stocking up on forwards, you have to think that he's gearing up for potential trades & from the reports I've seen Doan's agent has contacted Kenny on a number of occasions already to gauge interest if he were to leave Phoenix. Key point: Doan's agent is the one making the calls, not Kenny. I say that bodes well if Doan does pull the trigger. Let's also factor in that this presents a huge opportunity for our prospects & younger players to step up. Who knows what will happen if Nyquist gets a full season playing in the top 6 with Pavs or Hank, how Smith will develop getting top 4 minutes potentially, if the chance pushes Kindl or Ericsson to the next level, or if a Tatar or Sheahan will step up big time in camp & prove they should be full-timers. It's still a long way from April 2013 to write the Wings season off already.
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Edited by ogreslayer, 05 July 2012 - 07:26 AM.


#24 F.Michael

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Posted 05 July 2012 - 07:36 AM

I have changed my opinion on trading flip, it would have to be a trade that blows me away. When Pavel was hurt last year he was a point per game player, not saying that he could sustain that over a course of the year but he doesn't need a super star to produce. So I would just sit on the money roll with the young guys. Worse case scenario we get a better draft pick and the young players get experience.

Yes Axe needs to go away...

If Flip can be part of a package that can get us Ryan, or Yandle - then I'm all for it.

He's not a 22 year old kid in his 3rd season; don't expect another 20 plus goals, or 60 plus points a season from him.

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#25 Nightfall

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Posted 05 July 2012 - 07:37 AM

Were those seasons in the NHL?

Get a clue - anything outside of the NHL doesn't mean much...Take off the rose colored Red Wing glasses.

Part of "making a name for yourself" is to show what you have in the big show. Nyquist and Brunner don't have a name for themselves in the NHL, but they have an opportunity to do so next season. If they were already playing in the NHL on a regular basis and doing well, they would already have a name for themselves.

I suppose logic is hard when it comes from a fairweather fan such as yourself.....
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#26 Echolalia

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Posted 05 July 2012 - 07:44 AM

Exactly. With Kenny stocking up on forwards, you have to think that he's gearing up for potential trades & from the reports I've seen Doan's agent has contacted Kenny on a number of occasions already to gauge interest if he were to leave Phoenix. Key point: Doan's agent is the one making the calls, not Kenny. I say that bodes well if Doan does pull the trigger.


Where did you hear is was Doan's camp that was contacting us?

#27 archimet

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Posted 05 July 2012 - 07:49 AM

Good post. I'm sick of all the bulls*** speculation from everyone so this topic/post is refreshing on here thank you. Going to be interesting to see what Kenny does now. Still IMO i dont want us signing older players we need to get younger...



Not sure I agree... We have 'young guys' like Kindl, Mursak and Emmerton who it's time to either fish or cut bait... We have some 'young guys' that are potentially solid NHLer's, or more, and need playing time... Smith, Nyquist and maybe Brunner... And we have other 'young guys' waiting for their turn: Tatar, Jarnkrok, Sheehan, Jurco, Pulkinnen and so on...

There are zero 'young guys' left in the FA market that are worth pushing aside any of the 'young guys' the Wings already have. Mueller... maybe, but he's injury-prone. Brule, maybe worth the risk, but at whose expense? The rest of the FA market are not 'young guys'... That's the whole point of Free Agency... you're not a 'young guy' anymore.

The only riskless choice at forward... Doan... is 35.... Maybe Arnott at 37... As for the risky options at forward: Semin is 28, Kostitsyn is 27, Huselias is 32 and so on. But will Semin take a 1 or 2-year contract? Probably not. I wouldn't if I were him. So are you willing to commit $30 million to Alex Semin for 5 years? I might, but it's not my money, and I don't get paid to make sure the wings are both competitive AND profitable over the long-run.

Everyone's been screaming, "give the 'young guys' a chance'... Well... next year we'll see what they've got. Should be exciting!

In my opinion, the options left in free agency are: (1) sign an 'old' D, or 2, for stability (and to give us a solid chance to make the playoffs)... Colaiacovo, Rozsimval, Kubina, Hannan, Jurcina... (2) try to convince Semin to take a 1-2 year contract (unlikely)... and if he decides to leave Phoenix, go after Shane Doan.

Frankly, the better option is the trade market, either this summer... or at the trade deadline. But if we do that, we'll lose one, or more, of our 'young guys' we all want to see play...

#28 Matt

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Posted 05 July 2012 - 07:50 AM

I'm all for trading Filppula if it's part of a package for an elite defenseman or winger. We already have two elite centers in Datsyuk and Zetterberg and only a part-time elite offensive talent in Franzen riding shotgun with Datsyuk. Filppula is regularly being shifted to the wing to get him on the top 2 lines and his time centering the third line is over.

I'd feel better dealing him for a scoring winger (Bobby Ryan or -- if on some far away planet a Nash trade is even feasible within the division -- Rick Nash) and then biding time to see if there's something that can be worked out with Semin (meaning: no long term, no prohibitively high cap figure, but high enough to dissuade him from signing with the KHL). That would help plant two elite-talent wingers on the top two lines.

I think Nyqvist will "replace" Filppula on this team. He won't be able to pick up the slack this season, but over the following year or so I would expect him to. Wings management has to be willing to take that chance and have faith in their prospects while also being daring enough to make the trade(s) that need to be made.

The defense.... well, the defense. I have no idea now that Suter's gone how to manage that. Time will tell. Easier to bolster the offense right now when comparing it to defensive options.

#29 F.Michael

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Posted 05 July 2012 - 07:51 AM

Part of "making a name for yourself" is to show what you have in the big show. Nyquist and Brunner don't have a name for themselves in the NHL, but they have an opportunity to do so next season. If they were already playing in the NHL on a regular basis and doing well, they would already have a name for themselves.

I suppose logic is hard when it comes from a fairweather fan such as yourself.....

:lol: - you "optimists" crack me up...

Yeah - both Nyquist, and Brunner will get a shot in the "bigs" this fall - primarily due to the fact that there's not alot of scoring depth up front.

In all honesty I hope they both become 50 plus goal scorers in the NHL - I really do...But see - there's this thing called reality...Scoring like a madman in a league such as the Swiss league doesn't say much - especially when ya consider it's a notch below the AHL.

Averaging a point a game in the AHL like Nyquist has doesn't always translate to the NHL as well (Hudler anyone?).

Like I said - the only guy I see "making a name for himself" - as in a top 4 Dman, or top 6 forward - it would be Smith on defense...Anything else from the others woiuld be a nice bonus.

BTW - I've been a "fairweather fan" of the Detroit Red Wings since 1984.

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#30 Nightfall

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Posted 05 July 2012 - 07:56 AM

I'm all for trading Filppula if it's part of a package for an elite defenseman or winger. We already have two elite centers in Datsyuk and Zetterberg and only a part-time elite offensive talent in Franzen riding shotgun with Datsyuk. Filppula is regularly being shifted to the wing to get him on the top 2 lines and his time centering the third line is over.

I'd feel better dealing him for a scoring winger (Bobby Ryan or -- if on some far away planet a Nash trade is even feasible within the division -- Rick Nash) and then biding time to see if there's something that can be worked out with Semin (meaning: no long term, no prohibitively high cap figure, but high enough to dissuade him from signing with the KHL). That would help plant two elite-talent wingers on the top two lines.

I think Nyqvist will "replace" Filppula on this team. He won't be able to pick up the slack this season, but over the following year or so I would expect him to. Wings management has to be willing to take that chance and have faith in their prospects while also being daring enough to make the trade(s) that need to be made.

The defense.... well, the defense. I have no idea now that Suter's gone how to manage that. Time will tell. Easier to bolster the offense right now when comparing it to defensive options.

I agree Matt. The point is that we have options open to us. I am very eager to see what the Wings are going to do. :)

I heard that Semin may actually go play in the KHL next season, but thats just on various rumor sites.
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#31 ogreslayer

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Posted 05 July 2012 - 07:59 AM

Where did you hear is was Doan's camp that was contacting us?

One of the mentions I could find quickly:

http://www.mlive.com...tions_incl.html

Scroll down to the Forwards portion of the story

#32 nuts2u

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Posted 05 July 2012 - 08:02 AM

In 10 years, the Wings brass will be glad they didn't sign Suter and Parise


I don't think it will take 10yrs to be glad we aren't stuck with 15M for those two guys. Look what happened to Francine! We have been up against the cap for years and I think we will be better off with more wiggle room.

Lol, the record low for Minnesota is 60 below zero and now that team has cap issues so I hope they enjoy their ice time together.

#33 Matt

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Posted 05 July 2012 - 08:03 AM

I heard that Semin may actually go play in the KHL next season, but thats just on various rumor sites.

I recall reading on Twitter (from a reputable media member -- not a fly-by-night hockey "insider) that Fedorov is openly courting him to join his KHL team. We'll see.
____

And count me as one of those that thinks that Suter would've been absolutely worth the money if the Wings matched his offer from the Wild. He is a rock-solid all-around defenseman that contributes in all situations and those players, especially in the era of "lifetime" contracts that teams hand out like candy to those they deem franchise players, hardly ever hit the market.

If you think Suter's contract is "bad" just wait until you see what kind of cheddar Weber gets if he signs his offer sheet and goes UFA next July 1. Depending on the outcome of the CBA (if it remains remotely status quo), you're looking at a contract nearing $9-million per season just because franchise defensemen of that caliber do NOT hit the market anymore, the "Crosby cap" be damned. People will scream and yell that he's "not worth more than Crosby" -- but someone WILL pay it and there will be a line to sign him.

#34 RedWingsDCB

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Posted 05 July 2012 - 08:49 AM

Exactly. With Kenny stocking up on forwards, you have to think that he's gearing up for potential trades & from the reports I've seen Doan's agent has contacted Kenny on a number of occasions already to gauge interest if he were to leave Phoenix. Key point: Doan's agent is the one making the calls, not Kenny. I say that bodes well if Doan does pull the trigger. Let's also factor in that this presents a huge opportunity for our prospects & younger players to step up. Who knows what will happen if Nyquist gets a full season playing in the top 6 with Pavs or Hank, how Smith will develop getting top 4 minutes potentially, if the chance pushes Kindl or Ericsson to the next level, or if a Tatar or Sheahan will step up big time in camp & prove they should be full-timers. It's still a long way from April 2013 to write the Wings season off already.
Posted Image


Hey do you happen to have links about the reports of Doan's agent contacting Detroit?? Great post by the way and I fully agree with you, the off season is far from over

#35 F.Michael

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Posted 05 July 2012 - 08:57 AM

I recall reading on Twitter (from a reputable media member -- not a fly-by-night hockey "insider) that Fedorov is openly courting him to join his KHL team. We'll see.
____

And count me as one of those that thinks that Suter would've been absolutely worth the money if the Wings matched his offer from the Wild. He is a rock-solid all-around defenseman that contributes in all situations and those players, especially in the era of "lifetime" contracts that teams hand out like candy to those they deem franchise players, hardly ever hit the market.

If you think Suter's contract is "bad" just wait until you see what kind of cheddar Weber gets if he signs his offer sheet and goes UFA next July 1. Depending on the outcome of the CBA (if it remains remotely status quo), you're looking at a contract nearing $9-million per season just because franchise defensemen of that caliber do NOT hit the market anymore, the "Crosby cap" be damned. People will scream and yell that he's "not worth more than Crosby" -- but someone WILL pay it and there will be a line to sign him.

I personally believe neither Parise/Suter will live up to their contracts, or the hype that they created by signing together in Minny - nor do I feel these 2 has placed Minny as a legit Cup contending team.

As for Weber - yeah we'll see him lighting his cigars with $100 bills...At least he's a Norris Trophy candidate which as of yet Suter is not.

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#36 RyanBarnes!

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Posted 05 July 2012 - 08:59 AM

Last year's showing was a really miserable one from the Red Wings, it reminded me of the days back in 2003-2007 when I used to go crazy in these forums. Eventually they turned things around however and won a Cup in 2008! Missing out on Suter was a bad blow for sure. I was feeling very optimistic of the chances of landing him. Not sure what options are out there right now, but clearly Kronwall will have to step up big next season. I know he can.

Overall I still like the defensive group including Kronwall, White, Quincey and Smith, although Kindl and Ericsson have a lot too prove. The forwards group leaves a lot too wish for though. When Helm went out, the Red Wings had absolutely no speed coming out of the neutral zone. I think Zetterberg, Datsyuk and Hudler were the only ones that were dangerous offensively. I hope Kenny can put together an attractive package of Franzen and Filppula and trade for more speed, scoring and size. Franzen has proved himself too streaky last couple of years and Filppula seem incapable of producing in the post season.

It will be interesting to follow what happens this offseason, and to see what team the Red Wings will ice next season. Nash would be an exciting player to watch in Detroit, but I dont see that happening. Maybe the chance is slightly greater that Ryan will find himself wearing red and white, who knows, right? At least I hope to see a line of Abdelkader-Helm-Tootoo out there making things hard on the opposing team. I'm also very excited about Smith!
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#37 SwedeLundin77

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Posted 05 July 2012 - 09:21 AM

Everyone keeps freaking out over our defense... don't get me wrong, I really hope we make a move to get Yandle, Boyle, Murray, etc... If we don't, however, I'm not going to be all that upset if we just get a solid 5/6 man. What I have been thinking about lately, is the most recent Stanley Cup Champions: LA...

See take a look at their defense corps:

Doughty, Mitchell, Voynov, Greene, Martinez, Scuderi....

So you're telling me that we're up s***s creek with:

Kronwall, Ericsson, White, Smith, Quincey, Kindl


If you ask me, I'd much rather take our defense over theirs at this point in time... Young and hungry.

The bottom line is that Holland is not done... Once we sign Abdelkader, we'll have 16 forwards, and I don't see us sending Brunner or Nyquist down, so that means we'll need to shed 2-3 via trade. That should be enough for us to get a solid d-man, I believe. Hopefully we can land Yandle, but time will tell. I also feel that we are either going to add Semin or Doan within the next week. If we get Yandle, I can see a package like this going over to Phx (Filppula, Eaves, 2nd rounder).

So that leaves us with the following:

Nyquist-Datsyuk-Semin
Franzen-Zetterberg-Brunner
Bertuzzi-Helm-Samuelsson
Cleary-Abdelkader-Tootoo
Mursak

Kronwall-Yandle
Quincey-White
Ericsson-Smith
Kindl

Howard
Gustavsson

It's also awesome to note that as of right this instant, we have 4 right handed shots on offense:

Brunner, Samuelsson, Eaves, Tootoo...

and make it 5 if we sign Semin or Doan.

#38 ogreslayer

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Posted 05 July 2012 - 09:42 AM

Hey do you happen to have links about the reports of Doan's agent contacting Detroit?? Great post by the way and I fully agree with you, the off season is far from over

From the Khan article I linked previously...

Shane Doan, PhoenixThe power forward's agent has called the Red Wings several times the past couple of days, seeking an offer, and with Parise off the market, Detroit will make a pitch for Doan. However, Doan has stated he won't decide until Monday if he will leave Phoenix, where he has played since 1996. His main concern is whether the team will relocate in 2013-14 due to the unstable ownership situation. Ultimately, many expect he will stay in Phoenix.


Just have to wonder if it's genuine interest or if Doan's agent is just looking for the Wings to ultimately set a price for Phoenix i.e. "Well, the Red Wings offered this much at this many years & we want you to match it". I'm hoping on the former.

Edited by ogreslayer, 05 July 2012 - 09:42 AM.


#39 fixxxer

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Posted 05 July 2012 - 10:02 AM

I really believe that Doan isn't going anywhere unless he finds bad news by July 9th about his club. Even then I always thought that Doan didn't really care for the wings, however I could be misinterpreting that. I also have a hard time believing that we will trade for Nash. As dumb as Columbus' GM is he won't trade to division rivals unless its retardedly lopsided even then he may not take it see the islanders 1-7th picks for columbus' 1st pick.

The problem with missing out on Suter and going the trade route is that is going to really cut into our prospects. We went from getting players to fill in for free to now having to give up future or current players. Should be intereseting rest of the year to say the least. Also waiting out on Weber I don't really see Nash giving him away very easily as well after loosing Suter. Plus after Webers antics last playoffs he can go F himself.

#40 Crymson

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Posted 05 July 2012 - 11:23 AM

Were those seasons in the NHL?

Get a clue - anything outside of the NHL doesn't mean much...Take off the rose colored Red Wing glasses.


In claiming that they are waring "rose-colored glasses," you are saying that Brunner and Nyqvist have no chance of doing well in the NHL next season. That prediction holds as much water as does the claim that they will do well; it's a prediction. And so sorry, but people don't need you to save them from their own optimism.





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