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Where do we go from here? Let's try a youth movement


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#1 Drake_Marcus

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Posted 05 July 2012 - 02:02 PM

So now that Suter and Parise are signed to life-time contracts with shockingly high average cap hits relative to their abilities (remember when people did 13 year contacts just to keep the cap hit low?) it's time to think hard about where the team should go next. I see three options:

1.) Sign the remaining FA scraps and try to stich a competitive team together.
2.) Make trades to acquire a young #1 dman (think Keith Yandle)
3.) Push forward with an internal youth movement and let the chips fall where they may. If the kids can't step up next summer will be very interesting. If they can step up we'll see just what this team has in terms of the next generation. One benefit of this plan is it will leave the Wings with a lot of cap space that could be useful if the new CBA drops the cap by an appreciable amount (in which case you'll see some serious panic from the teams who are up against the temporary cap).

Personally, I'd take option #3. I'd rather gamble on the kids and get them minutes to grow than wash out in the 1st round again. At least we'd be in line for a decent 1st round pick for the first time in more than 20 years.

With that in mind here's my proposal:

Sign:
Quincey (if and only if a better player can't be had for his spot and he's willing to take 4 mil or less, otherwise release him)

Release:
Abdelkader (Tootoo does everything he does but better and Abs is a terrible face-off guy)
Holmstrom (only so many roster spots left, it'll be a shame to see him go)
Emmerton (let him pass through waivers)

Trade:
Miller (no room, need the roster spot for one of the kids)
Joey Mac (find him a legitimate back-up job, trade him for future considerations if necessary)

Conditional:
Eaves (if he's ready in training camp and earns his spot keep him as the 4th line center since he's got NHL experience in the circle and is fast as hell, otherwise slot Andersson or Sheahan up into his spot)
Mursak (he's the 13th forward in my mind)

On deck:
Tatar, Andersson, Sheahan. All three should get an extended look through the entire pre-season and if any of the three beat an NHLer on the roster for his job make the trade that brings them onto the team. It's time to give the kids a chance to drive.

Obligatory line-up from cap geek:

FORWARDS
Gustav Nyquist ($0.875m) / Pavel Datsyuk ($6.700m) / Johan Franzen ($3.955m)
Valtteri Filppula ($3.000m) / Henrik Zetterberg ($6.083m) / Todd Bertuzzi ($2.075m)
Damien Brunner ($1.350m) / Darren Helm ($2.125m) / Mikael Samuelsson ($3.000m)
Danny Cleary ($2.800m) / Patrick Eaves ($1.200m) / Jordin Tootoo ($1.900m)
Jan Mursak ($0.550m) /
DEFENSEMEN
Niklas Kronwall ($4.750m) / Kyle Quincey ($3.750m)
Jonathan Ericsson ($3.250m) / Brendan Smith ($0.875m)
Ian White ($2.875m) / Jakub Kindl ($0.883m)
GOALTENDERS
Jimmy Howard ($2.250m)
Jonas Gustavsson ($1.500m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $70,200,000; CAP PAYROLL: $55,746,212; BONUSES: $462,500
CAP SPACE (21-man roster): $14,453,788

Notes: Subtly probe the market to see if there's interest in Cleary from one of the Canadian teams. Float the idea of a trade with Cleary. He's got the NTC (assuming it came back after the window that opened this past trade deadline) but there's always a chance he'd be excited to come home to Canada.

Longterm outlook:
Give Smith, Nyquist, Tatar, Sheahan and Andersson every opportunity to make the team and earn a perminant spot. If they can bump an NHL player off the roster who is performing at or very close to their level then so be it. The #1 priority should be to fully evaluate just what the team has in the cupboard. If the kids are found lacking it's time to make some bold moves.
This plan very well may reduce the chances this team has to make the playoffs but I believe that it is in the long-term interests of the team.

Edit: seriously, can we please have spell-check functionality with this new UI? My normal Firefox spellcheck doesn't work here anymore.

Edited by Drake_Marcus, 05 July 2012 - 02:05 PM.

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#2 nyqvististhefuture

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Posted 05 July 2012 - 02:09 PM

dont know what all the hate with abdelkader's all about but hes not going anywhere

#3 dirtydangles

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Posted 05 July 2012 - 02:10 PM

This thread kinda exists in "Young Guns" but ya, youth movement will be hard with bert and sammy signed for the next two seasons... especially if kenny fills wholes with veteran dmen this offseason.

Is there a kickstarter campaign for Jakub Kindl to never play another NHL game?


#4 Shaman

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Posted 05 July 2012 - 02:12 PM

Because Abdelkader's been terrible in the playoffs. But don't release him, just hope that someone offersheets him and take the draft pick.
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In Funken versunken steh ich in Flammen
und bin im Wasser verbrannt
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#5 archimet

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Posted 05 July 2012 - 02:15 PM

This thread kinda exists in "Young Guns" but ya, youth movement will be hard with bert and sammy signed for the next two seasons... especially if kenny fills wholes with veteran dmen this offseason.


Don't see how having two players over 35 means we can't check out our younger players. Even the Edmonton Oilers have Ryan Smyth and Khabibulan.

#6 Drake_Marcus

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Posted 05 July 2012 - 02:15 PM

This thread kinda exists in "Young Guns" but ya, youth movement will be hard with bert and sammy signed for the next two seasons... especially if kenny fills wholes with veteran dmen this offseason.



A youth movement on teams who aren't trying to tank is typically a careful injection of young prospects. The Wings don't have to replace everyone with a twentysomething.
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#7 Zetts

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Posted 05 July 2012 - 02:16 PM

Longterm outlook:
Give Smith, Nyquist, Tatar, Sheahan and Andersson every opportunity to make the team and earn a perminant spot. If they can bump an NHL player off the roster who is performing at or very close to their level then so be it. The #1 priority should be to fully evaluate just what the team has in the cupboard. If the kids are found lacking it's time to make some bold moves.
This plan very well may reduce the chances this team has to make the playoffs but I believe that it is in the long-term interests of the team.

My impression is that Smith and Nyquist are locks for the roster regardless. If we're altering the course of our team around three additional mid-level propsects (Tatar, Sheahan and Andersson) and making moves based on the success of them, we're screwed.

Ignoring this year's draftees, since it's much to early to tell with them, my only real optimism about our prospects lies in Jarnkrok, Mrazek and Jurco. Others might make the NHL, but from what I've seen they aren't likely to be significant difference-makers (and are therefore expendable and replaceable).

#8 Drake_Marcus

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Posted 05 July 2012 - 02:23 PM

dont know what all the hate with abdelkader's all about but hes not going anywhere


The Wings can't play 5 lines of forwards. Abdelkader hasn't grown or shown the potential to grow past his rookie season. It's time to move on and give his spot to someone who is actively getting better.

My impression is that Smith and Nyquist are locks for the roster regardless. If we're altering the course of our team around three additional mid-level propsects (Tatar, Sheahan and Andersson) and making moves based on the success of them, we're screwed.

Ignoring this year's draftees, since it's much to early to tell with them, my only real optimism about our prospects lies in Jarnkrok, Mrazek and Jurco. Others might make the NHL, but from what I've seen they aren't likely to be significant difference-makers (and are therefore expendable and replaceable).


Talent wise, Tatar and Sheahan aren't mid-level prospects nor are they home-runs. Both have a shot to be very good NHL players. And again, this isn't about the Red Wings making a run for a Cup in 2013. This entire thing is about giving the kids a shot to prove their worth. If the Wings miss the playoffs and end up with a respectable draft posiiton for the first time in decades then so be it.

Our current roster isn't a few FA signings from being a legitimate Cup contender unless we see some serious growth from the young guys within the organization.

The worst thing that can happen here is if we see the WIngs turn into a team that constantly swaps a bit of talent in here or there to get them just at the level a 2nd round washout team is at.

We should be Cup contenders or lottery pick hopefulls. There's no room for something in between those two extremes if you want to build a future Cup winner in the current NHL.
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#9 WorkingOvertime

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Posted 05 July 2012 - 03:15 PM

The Wings can't play 5 lines of forwards. Abdelkader hasn't grown or shown the potential to grow past his rookie season. It's time to move on and give his spot to someone who is actively getting better.

Did you watch the WC this year? Abby's play was great (.5ppg), and he was able to accept more responsibility.

What most posters don't understand about Abby is that he is as good as his linemates. He doesn't have the speed or hands to suprise anyone, but he has the vision, strength, and ability to contribute to any line. Hs linemates have included Maltby, May, Emmerton, etc. and he has increased his production every season with the Wings. I'm not sure how much higher than 22 points can be expected from someone with those linemates.

Abby (and now Tootoo) is the only consistently physical forward on the Wings. He was the only forward to have more than 100 hits last season (148), coming only second to the now departed Stuart. Therefore, the Wings lost their most frequent hitter, and you're suggesting they also trade their second most frequent hitter. The team doesn't get tougher by replacing Abby with Tootoo, it gets tougher by having both players.

Abby also had the second best FO% of the Wings' regular players, with only Dats being better.

#10 Carman

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Posted 05 July 2012 - 03:23 PM

Drake, Abdelkader has better face off numbers than Filpulla, can play wing, skates and hits?

What is up with your crusade against him?

#11 Shaman

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Posted 05 July 2012 - 03:39 PM

CAPGEEK.COM USER GENERATED ROSTER
My Custom Lineup
FORWARDS
Valtteri Filppula ($3.000m) / Pavel Datsyuk ($6.700m) / Johan Franzen ($3.955m)
Danny Cleary ($2.800m) / Henrik Zetterberg ($6.083m) / Mikael Samuelsson ($3.000m)
Gustav Nyquist ($0.875m) / Darren Helm ($2.125m) / Todd Bertuzzi ($2.075m)
Drew Miller ($0.838m) / Cory Emmerton ($0.533m) / Jordin Tootoo ($1.900m)
Jan Mursak ($0.550m) / Jason Williams ($1.500m) / Damien Brunner ($1.350m)
Patrick Eaves ($1.200m)
DEFENSEMEN
Niklas Kronwall ($4.750m) / Jonathan Ericsson ($3.250m)
Ian White ($2.875m) / Jakub Kindl ($0.883m)
Brendan Smith ($0.875m) / Brett Lebda ($1.500m)
Kyle Quincey ($3.550m) /
GOALTENDERS
Jimmy Howard ($2.250m)
Jonas Gustavsson ($1.500m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $70,200,000; CAP PAYROLL: $59,917,045; BONUSES: $462,500
CAP SPACE (25-man roster): $10,282,955

Your 2012-2013 Detroit Red Wings.
Feuer und Wasser kommt nicht zusammen
Kann man nicht binden sind nicht verwandt
In Funken versunken steh ich in Flammen
und bin im Wasser verbrannt
Im Wasser verbrannt

#12 Jasper84

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Posted 05 July 2012 - 03:46 PM

It's exciting thinking about giving the youth guys a shot and I'm one of those in the group that says lets do it. But on the other hand, part of me doesn't want to see the team miss the playoffs and do bad in general. I'm from the generation where I haven't seen the Wings miss the playoffs since I grew up watching hockey and I really, really don't want to see that streak end anytime soon.

#13 LeftWinger

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Posted 05 July 2012 - 03:54 PM

dont know what all the hate with abdelkader's all about but hes not going anywhere


I don't think it is hate, well not from me, but he is good and would probably be asked for in any trade scenario....

To Drake...one could hope that the youth would grow together and one day become great together...but we are not the Edmonton Oilers and Holland will not go decades without a Cup or years without a playoff appearance. Holland will also not go with a youth movement with over $16M in cap space...besides trading Fil and Franzine in separate deals for Ryan and Yandle is getting younger...

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#14 Echolalia

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Posted 05 July 2012 - 04:03 PM

Abby is quickly becoming the most under appreciated player on the team ala Ericsson. I can't say for sure but im guessing a lot of it is coming from the notion that he doesn't dominate in any traditional bottom six role, but has the skill to be effective in all of them (which folks don't seem to notice). The guy fights when he has to, but doesn't drop the gloves every other night, so the fighting slapped get pissed. He lays big hits every now and then but doesn't focus solely on destroying people, so the traditional grinders get pissed. He scores and assists goals but not every night, so the bottom-six finesse guys get pissed. He's a jack-of-all trades in the bottom six who's defensive responsibility is vastly underrated. He's very dynamic and I think that's a good skill to have. I hope he stays with the club.

#15 ogreslayer

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Posted 05 July 2012 - 04:09 PM

Abby is quickly becoming the most under appreciated player on the team ala Ericsson. I can't say for sure but im guessing a lot of it is coming from the notion that he doesn't dominate in any traditional bottom six role, but has the skill to be effective in all of them (which folks don't seem to notice). The guy fights when he has to, but doesn't drop the gloves every other night, so the fighting slapped get pissed. He lays big hits every now and then but doesn't focus solely on destroying people, so the traditional grinders get pissed. He scores and assists goals but not every night, so the bottom-six finesse guys get pissed. He's a jack-of-all trades in the bottom six who's defensive responsibility is vastly underrated. He's very dynamic and I think that's a good skill to have. I hope he stays with the club.

I think most love the Abby that was playing for team USA at the World Cup. Sadly, that Abby has made rare appearances in Detroit so far though.

#16 Shaman

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Posted 05 July 2012 - 04:15 PM

Look at my roster, we need Lebda and Williams to round out our ASG roster.
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#17 Barrie

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Posted 05 July 2012 - 04:26 PM

I'm ok with a youth movement. There's no way I want the Wings to enter into these insane 13 year contracts for Free Agents. It's too risky bringing in a new guy for that long. Just sign the guy you've drafted and developed to 13 year deals, there's no surprises.
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#18 newfy

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Posted 05 July 2012 - 04:27 PM

So tired of seeing release Abdelkader threads. Getting Tootoo and having Abdelkader makes the team considerably tougher. Having just Tootoo, makes it marginally tougher. The guy produces pretty solid numbers for a physical 4th liner that scraps every now and then, he kills penalties and can play any position. Not to mention hes young and this thread is about the team getting younger. If Abdelkader can play wing for a full season with Tootoo on his other side I think fans will change their tune. Until then the same idiots will be calling for toughness, and youth and then say get rid of Abdelkader in the same sentence

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#19 LeftWinger

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Posted 05 July 2012 - 04:35 PM

So tired of seeing release Abdelkader threads. Getting Tootoo and having Abdelkader makes the team considerably tougher. Having just Tootoo, makes it marginally tougher. The guy produces pretty solid numbers for a physical 4th liner that scraps every now and then, he kills penalties and can play any position. Not to mention hes young and this thread is about the team getting younger. If Abdelkader can play wing for a full season with Tootoo on his other side I think fans will change their tune. Until then the same idiots will be calling for toughness, and youth and then say get rid of Abdelkader in the same sentence


I agree, I prefer to have him on our team...I just feel he may be asked about in any trade involving Nash/Ryan or Yandle... By all means if we get to keep him, I am seriously looking forward to Abby/Helm/Tootoo!

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#20 Shaman

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Posted 05 July 2012 - 04:42 PM

So tired of seeing release Abdelkader threads. Getting Tootoo and having Abdelkader makes the team considerably tougher. Having just Tootoo, makes it marginally tougher. The guy produces pretty solid numbers for a physical 4th liner that scraps every now and then, he kills penalties and can play any position. Not to mention hes young and this thread is about the team getting younger. If Abdelkader can play wing for a full season with Tootoo on his other side I think fans will change their tune. Until then the same idiots will be calling for toughness, and youth and then say get rid of Abdelkader in the same sentence

Except Abdelkader is the king of terrible penalties and bad defensive play in the last 3 post seasons, thats a good enough reason for me to want to let him get offersheeted.
Feuer und Wasser kommt nicht zusammen
Kann man nicht binden sind nicht verwandt
In Funken versunken steh ich in Flammen
und bin im Wasser verbrannt
Im Wasser verbrannt





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