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Dear Mr. Holland: Forget about FA, trade for Yandle and Ryan

bobby ryan keith yandle ken holland red wings

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#41 b.shanafan14

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Posted 06 July 2012 - 12:09 PM

I am sorry, but these two won't make us contenders for the cup. Doan brings grit, leadership and toughness but he does not fix our biggest hole, the defense!

Yandle is a good player nothing special.
I know some do not want to see this streak coming to an end, but would you be happy with the alternative? Getting our asses handed to us by Vancouver, Nashville, Los Angeles, Chicago or San Jose? Personally I rather not make the playoffs and have a superb offseason next year >>> hello Getzlaf and Weber

I would agree, but for one thing: if Parise/Suter tells us anything, its that you can't control everything. We threw the kitchen sink at them and they decided to go elsewhere. We need something that we can get.

#42 frankgrimes

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Posted 06 July 2012 - 12:16 PM

I would agree, but for one thing: if Parise/Suter tells us anything, its that you can't control everything. We threw the kitchen sink at them and they decided to go elsewhere. We need something that we can get.


That's true but Getzlaf and Weber aren't boyhood friends as far as I know.
It is a really hard offseason so far and I just don't see a real fix for us, it happens but patience is key.
Would you be happy with overpaying for at best class B players? I would be happy with one year deals, just not willing to handcuff us and lower our chances to break the bank for elite type of players, next year.
I'd love Suter and Parise as Wings but Getzlaf and Weber is a dream too, give them 14 years worth 100 million.

Edited by frankgrimes, 06 July 2012 - 12:19 PM.

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#43 St. Michael (the Red Wing)

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Posted 06 July 2012 - 12:26 PM

I am sorry, but these two won't make us contenders for the cup. Doan brings grit, leadership and toughness but he does not fix our biggest hole, the defense!
Yandle is a good player nothing special.
I know some do not want to see this streak coming to an end, but would you be happy with the alternative? Getting our asses handed to us by Vancouver, Nashville, Los Angeles, Chicago or San Jose? Personally I rather not make the playoffs and have a superb offseason next year <<< hello Getzlaf and Weber


No guarantee either Getzlaf or Weber or anyone else big named ala Perry will come to us. FYI. See Zach Parise and Ryan Suter this summer. I don't like the mentality of thinking oh lets just wait till next summer cause everyone wants to come to Detroit. Times are changing friend...

#44 Z Winged Dangler

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Posted 06 July 2012 - 12:26 PM

The problem with us trading for players is that we have so few movable assets. People here are overvaluing Franzen in a trade scenario. The guy can score no doubt but he has a sizable contract with a lot of years left and is on the wrong side of 30.

Flip is a real asset as are Nyquist and Smith. I think to get a Yandle it takes 2 of the 3 and a 1st rd pick. We don't have the depth to pay that price methinks. Plus I want to see Smith next year!!!

You're seriously undervaluing Smith and Nyquist. Especially when you consider from watching Smith that he has potential to be better than Yandle and has the potential to be top 2 on the Wings with Kronner. Nyquist had all 7 of his points in the first 13 games when he was playing on the 2nd and 3rd lines, then Franzen's lazy arse came back and he was relegated to the 4th line playing with Homer and Emmerton.....good luck getting points on that misfit line. He was .53 PPG playing on lines 2-3. Over 82 games, that's 43 points. If he's on lines 1-2 all year, then he'll likely produce more than that getting over 50 points easy so long as Babcock doesn't misuse him again. Smith was at .5 PPG when he was up with 7 points in 14 games. If he's in the top 4, which we expect he will be, he's got the potential to get 50 points. that is the reason guys like Smith and Nyquist have the tagline "Top Prospects" at their respective positions. And the only way you trade a guy like Flip, who had a career year at 66 points, 16 more than Hudler, is if Jarnkrok is ready to step up, which he is a year away from. Yandle is a great dman, comparable to Duncan Keith, but to say that 2 out of 3 of those guys would be needed to get him, i'd give 1 of them and maybe the 1st rounder. The only trade i would actually make to get Yandle from the Yotes is Franzen and Tatar straight up. If they want a pick with that, max 2nd rounder.

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#45 frankgrimes

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Posted 06 July 2012 - 12:32 PM

No guarantee either Getzlaf or Weber or anyone else big named ala Perry will come to us. FYI. See Zach Parise and Ryan Suter this summer. I don't like the mentality of thinking oh lets just wait till next summer cause everyone wants to come to Detroit. Times are changing friend...


Fine, what is your solution for our defense? Are you willing to get rid off our most promising prospects? I am not.
GM's aren't dumb otherwise they would not have that job. Opponents now know exactly, how bad we need defensive help, meaning the asking prices are going up not down.
Don't make the mistake and assume I am happy with potentially missing the playoffs, I am just realistic and thinking longterm.


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#46 ElCapitan

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Posted 06 July 2012 - 12:42 PM

No guarantee either Getzlaf or Weber or anyone else big named ala Perry will come to us. FYI. See Zach Parise and Ryan Suter this summer. I don't like the mentality of thinking oh lets just wait till next summer cause everyone wants to come to Detroit. Times are changing friend...


This is the problem. ^ Waiting until next year is a crap shoot, and what Holland does this year can either free him to get a top tier FA next year or handcuff him. There's not a simple solution.

#47 JasonNewEra

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Posted 06 July 2012 - 01:20 PM

97.1 The Ticket is reporting that the Wings have inquired about Bobby Ryan, and that Nash is still and option but may be out of the question.

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#48 St. Michael (the Red Wing)

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Posted 06 July 2012 - 01:22 PM

Fine, what is your solution for our defense? Are you willing to get rid off our most promising prospects? I am not.
GM's aren't dumb otherwise they would not have that job. Opponents now know exactly, how bad we need defensive help, meaning the asking prices are going up not down.
Don't make the mistake and assume I am happy with potentially missing the playoffs, I am just realistic and thinking longterm.


That's fair. I don't see an easy fix to our defense. We might have to suck it up this season. If we could somehow overload on offense by "signings" that would be great and a have a shakey defense ok I could live with that but I know most fans would disagree. The truth is there is no easy fix since we were rejected by Suter. Everyone was so set in stone about Suter (I wasn't and I didn't think Suter is that good) but I have faith in Holland to do something. And to surprise everyone I think it won't happen till the end of summer now with July 1st and all the hype passed now. Yet I don't have the slightest clue what Holland's going to do tbh whether trade for a top D-man or whatever it is. He might do nothing. But with the money we have to spend IDK.

Edited by St. Michael (the Red Wing), 06 July 2012 - 01:24 PM.


#49 RyanBarnes!

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Posted 06 July 2012 - 02:17 PM

It is at this time that Holland will make or break his career. He has been very good at maintaining what Jimmy D gave him. The question I have for Holland is he willing to take the big risks and gambles? Not sure he is. Holland has siad many times that he would retire when Nick does. Now maybe that was in jest, or maybe he is going to step down in the next year or 2. far to often long time successful GM's-in all sports, refuse to take risks late in their careers. Why rock tI he boat becomes their lifestyle and bi-words. if Holland takes a further plug and patch approach I would bet on a retirement soon. To me all options should be looked at and explored. Other than the 3 guys with no trade clauses.

I think Holland has shown time and time again that he is not. It has been all about adding without subtracting with Holland for the last decade. That might have been a winning strategy for many years, but with no risk, comes no reward. I think life after Lidstrom will demand a change of strategy.
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#50 LeftWinger

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Posted 06 July 2012 - 05:55 PM

I think Holland has shown time and time again that he is not. It has been all about adding without subtracting with Holland for the last decade. That might have been a winning strategy for many years, but with no risk, comes no reward. I think life after Lidstrom will demand a change of strategy.


Yes, agree....he has to cut loose Franzine or Filppula and make a splash...btw, I don't think I have seen you post on here for years!

a trade for Ryan a trade for Yandle and sign Doan... that would be a nice roster to move forward with! If he is a UFA next year, I am sure Holland will heavily pursue Weber, hopefully with a better outcome, but I am sure centcougar will have the inside scoop on that one...when the time comes...

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#51 LeftWinger

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Posted 06 July 2012 - 06:21 PM

I feel the most important thing to do is trade for Bobby Ryan...why? Not only will he be great here (as he is in ANA) but next season BOTH Getzlaf and Perry are UFA's...would they be butt buddies like Parise/Suter and want to go somewhere together? If Bobby Ryan were here, it could give Detroit a bit of an advantage in that...even if just one joined him here...

Odds are Quincey will get signed (blah) unless he is awarded a God awful contract...Trade for Ryan, Sign Doan... accept Q's contract if it is low enough and go from there...next season...try to score Weber (as will the rest of the NHL) and then try to get Perry or Getzlaf...

I cannot stress enough how important getting Bobby Ryan has on the future of this franchise...Filppula will get a $5M contract next July, Ryan is signed for two more after this at $5.1M...next year, Ryan at $5.1M is far more valuable than Fil at $5M. I love Filppula, but have problem giving him up in a package to get Ryan...as long as it doesn't cost Smith...get the deal done!

edit: Also if Holland wants to keep Kindl at #7, he could sign Kubina...

FORWARDS
Johan Franzen ($3.955m) / Pavel Datsyuk ($6.700m) / Bobby Ryan ($5.100m)
Shane Doan ($5.750m) / Henrik Zetterberg ($6.083m) / Damien Brunner ($1.350m)
Gustav Nyquist ($0.875m) / Darren Helm ($2.125m) / Mikael Samuelsson ($3.000m)
Todd Bertuzzi ($2.075m) / Justin Abdelkader ($1.500m) / Jordin Tootoo ($1.900m)
Drew Miller ($0.838m) / Patrick Eaves ($1.200m) /
DEFENSEMEN
Niklas Kronwall ($4.750m) / Pavel Kubina ($3.000m)
Kyle Quincey ($3.550m) / Ian White ($2.875m)
Brendan Smith ($0.875m) / Jonathan Ericsson ($3.250m)
Jakub Kindl ($0.883m) /
GOALTENDERS
Jimmy Howard ($2.250m)
Jonas Gustavsson ($1.500m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $70,200,000; CAP PAYROLL: $65,383,712; BONUSES: $462,500
CAP SPACE (23-man roster): $4,816,288

I am actually ok with this roster...I have obviously traded Filppula, Cleary, Mursak and Emmerton all in various fashions...I am not saying that is the package to get Ryan by no means. But Filppula, Mursak, Tatar, pick should do it. Then Cleary could just be traded for a 3rd round pick and Emmerton can be traded as well for a pick. For the record, I'd much rather trade Franzine, but Anaheim would take Filppula or sure...

Edited by LeftWinger, 06 July 2012 - 06:37 PM.

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#52 Hatethedrake!

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Posted 06 July 2012 - 06:34 PM

The main stumbling block in any potemtial trade is the fact any team Kenny talks to will want Smith as part of the deal. Kenny can't afford to subract from his blue line. Which is why he is finding it so hard to make an impact trade right now.
Jordan Tootoo will wreck shop.

We need someone like Parise that can penetrate the box.-blueadams

#53 LeftWinger

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Posted 06 July 2012 - 06:44 PM

The main stumbling block in any potemtial trade is the fact any team Kenny talks to will want Smith as part of the deal. Kenny can't afford to subract from his blue line. Which is why he is finding it so hard to make an impact trade right now.


I see, but here is what I think. Anaheim seemed confident enough in their D that they traded Vishnovsky (sp?) away. I really don't think acquiring Ryan would cost us Smith...Nyquist maybe, but I think Kenny could get away with Tatar instead since he seems nearly ready to make the jump. The Wings wouldn't miss Tatar especially with the other's in our top 10 prospects PLUS the guys they picked up this June...

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#54 Probie

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Posted 06 July 2012 - 07:10 PM

I feel the most important thing to do is trade for Bobby Ryan...why? Not only will he be great here (as he is in ANA) but next season BOTH Getzlaf and Perry are UFA's...would they be butt buddies like Parise/Suter and want to go somewhere together? If Bobby Ryan were here, it could give Detroit a bit of an advantage in that...even if just one joined him here...

Odds are Quincey will get signed (blah) unless he is awarded a God awful contract...Trade for Ryan, Sign Doan... accept Q's contract if it is low enough and go from there...next season...try to score Weber (as will the rest of the NHL) and then try to get Perry or Getzlaf...

I cannot stress enough how important getting Bobby Ryan has on the future of this franchise...Filppula will get a $5M contract next July, Ryan is signed for two more after this at $5.1M...next year, Ryan at $5.1M is far more valuable than Fil at $5M. I love Filppula, but have problem giving him up in a package to get Ryan...as long as it doesn't cost Smith...get the deal done!

edit: Also if Holland wants to keep Kindl at #7, he could sign Kubina...

FORWARDS
Johan Franzen ($3.955m) / Pavel Datsyuk ($6.700m) / Bobby Ryan ($5.100m)
Shane Doan ($5.750m) / Henrik Zetterberg ($6.083m) / Damien Brunner ($1.350m)
Gustav Nyquist ($0.875m) / Darren Helm ($2.125m) / Mikael Samuelsson ($3.000m)
Todd Bertuzzi ($2.075m) / Justin Abdelkader ($1.500m) / Jordin Tootoo ($1.900m)
Drew Miller ($0.838m) / Patrick Eaves ($1.200m) /
DEFENSEMEN
Niklas Kronwall ($4.750m) / Pavel Kubina ($3.000m)
Kyle Quincey ($3.550m) / Ian White ($2.875m)
Brendan Smith ($0.875m) / Jonathan Ericsson ($3.250m)
Jakub Kindl ($0.883m) /
GOALTENDERS
Jimmy Howard ($2.250m)
Jonas Gustavsson ($1.500m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $70,200,000; CAP PAYROLL: $65,383,712; BONUSES: $462,500
CAP SPACE (23-man roster): $4,816,288

I am actually ok with this roster...I have obviously traded Filppula, Cleary, Mursak and Emmerton all in various fashions...I am not saying that is the package to get Ryan by no means. But Filppula, Mursak, Tatar, pick should do it. Then Cleary could just be traded for a 3rd round pick and Emmerton can be traded as well for a pick. For the record, I'd much rather trade Franzine, but Anaheim would take Filppula or sure...


Hey i like the ryan idea and the possibility of him luring getz or perry next year.

Edited by Probie, 06 July 2012 - 07:11 PM.


#55 Rivalred

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Posted 06 July 2012 - 07:32 PM

Ryan will be traded out of the west, if he is really avaiable. Yandle the same.

In reality there are no players avaiable to make us a cupcontender this year.


Wonder is LA thought that when they acquired a few guys at the trade deadline
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#56 LeftWinger

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Posted 06 July 2012 - 08:30 PM

http://detroit.sbnat...troit-red-wings

All just speculation...but if Holland pulled off acquiring Ryan...the Future looks brighter than even with Parise...first Ryan, then Getzlar or Perry....or both!

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#57 RyanBarnes!

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Posted 07 July 2012 - 04:05 AM

Yes, agree....he has to cut loose Franzine or Filppula and make a splash...btw, I don't think I have seen you post on here for years!

a trade for Ryan a trade for Yandle and sign Doan... that would be a nice roster to move forward with! If he is a UFA next year, I am sure Holland will heavily pursue Weber, hopefully with a better outcome, but I am sure centcougar will have the inside scoop on that one...when the time comes...

Agreed, I think both Franzen and FIlppula should be cut loose. Franzen is too streaky and I cannot see FIlppula take the next step while being in the shadow of Datsyuk and Zetterberg.

I'm almost certain that the Red WIngs will sign Semin, not Doan. I'm not too thrilled about this but hopefully he will produce alongside Datsyuk. As for trading I would love to get Ryan but as for defense, I would prefer Bouwmeester over Yandle, simply because I think Bouwmeester would be able to develop into a force in Detroit.

As for me not posting in years, no I have mostly been reading for the last years, but I have always followed the Red Wings and now I'm back!
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#58 joesuffP

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Posted 07 July 2012 - 04:23 AM

Semin is gonna get a long deal from either us or the pens... I say 4 years at the most but you gotta know he will have options so yes we will have to overpay or give a longer contract than we want. I think, given the leagues perception of him, he will want a longer term contract more importantly. Consider us lucky if we can get him for 3 years

JBou will be a player a lot more easily obtained... Franzen, Cleary, and Bert... Flames get a long term goal scorer and we can ditch our dead weight and let our kids play... Franzen for JBou should be a good deal straight up but I want holland to dump these guys salary as well

#59 RyanBarnes!

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Posted 07 July 2012 - 04:54 AM

JBou will be a player a lot more easily obtained... Franzen, Cleary, and Bert... Flames get a long term goal scorer and we can ditch our dead weight and let our kids play... Franzen for JBou should be a good deal straight up but I want holland to dump these guys salary as well

Let's be realistic here, the pool of available elite defensemen is not deep. The Red Wings will still need to pay a price for a top defenseman like Boumeester. I dont see the Flames taking on Cleary and Bertuzzi. It will take Franzen and a solid prospect minimum.
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#60 ShanahanMan

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Posted 07 July 2012 - 08:01 AM

Let's be realistic here, the pool of available elite defensemen is not deep. The Red Wings will still need to pay a price for a top defenseman like Boumeester. I dont see the Flames taking on Cleary and Bertuzzi. It will take Franzen and a solid prospect minimum.


As much as I really don't like JayBo, I don't think it would take much to land him. He's been pretty disappointing for Calgary thus far and there were talks of trading him throughout last season. Still, with his cap hit, the only way I'd be okay with the deal is if we didn't have to give much to get him.

Edited by ShanahanMan, 07 July 2012 - 08:02 AM.



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