Jump to content


Photo
* * * - - 5 votes

A case for rebuilding

rebuilding

  • Please log in to reply
32 replies to this topic

#21 JasonNewEra

JasonNewEra

    4th Line Grinder

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 269 posts
  • Location:Westland

Posted 06 July 2012 - 03:01 PM

All I've heard is excuses to why what WE tell you won't work.

So your in the opinion we should rebuild because you heard through "sources" that Datsyuk is leaving for the KHL eventually. Also that YOU think a bunch of our AHL guys are career AHLers and they won't sniff the NHL? Which quite a few of them have seen time in it and some are still too young to get the call up.

So we should rebuild because your right and we're wrong? Nani-Nani-boo-boo? Stick your head in doo-doo?

12412215175_9591987538_o.jpg


#22 Shaman

Shaman

    Die hard Red Wing fan and realist.

  • Silver Booster
  • 3,841 posts
  • Location:Kalamazoo Michigan (WMU)

Posted 06 July 2012 - 03:13 PM

All I've heard is excuses to why what WE tell you won't work.

So your in the opinion we should rebuild because you heard through "sources" that Datsyuk is leaving for the KHL eventually. Also that YOU think a bunch of our AHL guys are career AHLers and they won't sniff the NHL? Which quite a few of them have seen time in it and some are still too young to get the call up.

So we should rebuild because your right and we're wrong? Nani-Nani-boo-boo? Stick your head in doo-doo?

Are you 6? The only player I disagree with people about is Andersson.

As for Dats, hes said more than once that he wants to play in Russia in the future, when that future is no one knows, but, the Wings can't count on him to be here till hes 40 like someone suggested.

And again are you going to go on the record and say the Wings aren't going to be 6-10th this season? Because the difference between 6th place and 9th is usualy 4 to 7 points, that's 2 loses that separate a playoff team from a non-playoff team.

Let me be clear I am not saying the following:

That the wings are a bottom team

That the wings have a bad farm system (I am saying the opposite)

That the Wings will miss the playoffs for sure (I believe they will be between 7th and 9th next season with 6th being the most realistic best case and 10th being the most realistic worst case)

That this rebuild will be a 5 year thing (I think this will be a mini-rebuild lasting 1 to 2 seasons as they transition into the post lidstrom era.)

Edited by Shaman464, 06 July 2012 - 03:17 PM.

Feuer und Wasser kommt nicht zusammen
Kann man nicht binden sind nicht verwandt
In Funken versunken steh ich in Flammen
und bin im Wasser verbrannt
Im Wasser verbrannt

#23 Jesusberg

Jesusberg

    1st Line All-Star

  • Validating
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,616 posts
  • Location:Windsor, Ontario

Posted 06 July 2012 - 03:19 PM

So your in the opinion we should rebuild because you heard through "sources" that Datsyuk is leaving for the KHL eventually.


In his defense, Datsyuk's said in an interview or two (from maybe 3-4 years ago) that he'd like to finish his career in Russia.

#24 EastonWings

EastonWings

    4th Line Grinder

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 320 posts

Posted 06 July 2012 - 03:21 PM

Good lord, why is there such an allure to rebuilding? I swear some of you just can't stand not seeing Landeskog's, RNH's, Yakupov's, and other high profile overrated prospects in our system...you'd think the last 20 years of wings drafting would change that, but apparently not.

Why in gods name would we rebuild? we have Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Howard, Kronwall, Helm, Franzen, and Filppula...that's 7 high caliber championship players. You don't rebuild when you have assets like that lol. There are teams with wayyyyy less than what we have who aren't rebuilding, why in the hell would we?

Oh, and did I also mention we already have an extremely deep pool of prospects? Smith, Nyquist, Jarnkrok, Mrazek, Tatar, Sheahan, Jurco, Sproul, Andersson, Ouellet, Pulkkinen, Tvrdon, Marchenko, Quine, Ferraro, Callahan, Frk, Athanasiou, Mckee, Paterson, Nestrasil, Dekeyster (most likely)....we need to tank to acquire prospects why?

Our D is tore up yes....but our forward lines are more than shored up, and our goaltending is shored up...we'll probably end up trading some of our many extra forwards for more d-men so chill man.



#25 number9

number9

    All The Best Players Wear A 9

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,357 posts
  • Location:Buffalo

Posted 06 July 2012 - 03:27 PM

Its not Hudler that I care we lost, its the 25 goals on a team that has regressed defensively I care about. Anyway, I have never seen one report that said Andersson is a lock for the NHL, I have seen MANY that call him a character guy, a career 4th liner, and other things to this effect. Knowing how the NHL works, and the turn over on 4th line players, to say that a 4th liner could end up being a depth guy/AHL player is not a stretch.

Next Q isn't terrible, but the Wings are hurting for shut down defensemen not scoring defensemen. SO as I said, unless he has a huge bounce back year, I don't think its fair to say Q is a replacement for Stuart. He has abit of snarl, but it I would say him and Ericsson have more in common than him and Stuart.

Finally, unless you can give evidence that the team as it stands now is not a border playoff team, and that I'm missing something please address my points about not overpaying in trade for Yandle/Jbo and not overpaying at the deadline. This thread was about not selling the farm in trade and eating a season where the wings may not hit 100 points and may struggle to make the playoffs, not about blowing up the team and tanking for the first overall.


No it's not a stretch, and no prospect is a 100% lock, not even Smith or Nyquist....But everything being said about him is that he's big, fast, good defensively, actually uses his size, and will most likely make a great 4th line checker one day. More up side than down.

K well Holland said that about Q, not me. But what does he know. I'd post the article for you if I had it, I read it after someone posted it on a thread like a month ago. Q is not at all like E though. He's another White, good on D, good on O, good skater. Not great at anything but a decent two-way defensman, who's not a liability anywhere on the ice. Again, he had a bad 18 games on a new team, not a bad year at all.

Of course I can't give you evidence lol, what you want me to see the future? You seem to have a pretty low hopes for the team next year, I on the other hand trust Holland. He knows better than any of us and he hasn't let me down yet. For all I know Brunner's going to put up 30 goals and 50+ points, Smith is going to put up 30 points, and Sammy is going to add another 15 goals and 30 points....I don't know though, but I'm going to trust Holland and be optimistic about.

Oh and no, not only do I personally think it would be dumb to overpay for Yandle, but I don't believe Holland would ever do that either. Were not going to sell Bert or Cleary though either....Holland loves Cleary and Bert doesn't have enough trade value to make selling him worth while. Were probablly going to dump depth forwards with value like Eaves, Miller, Abby, Mursak, Emmerton, for a depth d-man.

In his defense, Datsyuk's said in an interview or two (from maybe 3-4 years ago) that he'd like to finish his career in Russia.


that may mean he wants go play in the KHL when he's like 40 though

Are you 6? The only player I disagree with people about is Andersson.

As for Dats, hes said more than once that he wants to play in Russia in the future, when that future is no one knows, but, the Wings can't count on him to be here till hes 40 like someone suggested.

And again are you going to go on the record and say the Wings aren't going to be 6-10th this season? Because the difference between 6th place and 9th is usualy 4 to 7 points, that's 2 loses that separate a playoff team from a non-playoff team.

Let me be clear I am not saying the following:

That the wings are a bottom team

That the wings have a bad farm system (I am saying the opposite)

That the Wings will miss the playoffs for sure (I believe they will be between 7th and 9th next season with 6th being the most realistic best case and 10th being the most realistic worst case)

That this rebuild will be a 5 year thing (I think this will be a mini-rebuild lasting 1 to 2 seasons as they transition into the post lidstrom era.)


LAK was a #8 seed and NJD was a #6 seed...making the playoffs is making the playoffs...which we will do...we still have all the assets that make us a cup contending team.

#26 Jesusberg

Jesusberg

    1st Line All-Star

  • Validating
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,616 posts
  • Location:Windsor, Ontario

Posted 06 July 2012 - 03:28 PM

that may mean he wants go play in the KHL when he's like 40 though


It may, but it may not... he's had his fair share of wrist issues in the past couple seasons. If he's set on playing back there, he might call it early to make sure he can.

#27 Shaman

Shaman

    Die hard Red Wing fan and realist.

  • Silver Booster
  • 3,841 posts
  • Location:Kalamazoo Michigan (WMU)

Posted 06 July 2012 - 03:30 PM

No it's not a stretch, and no prospect is a 100% lock, not even Smith or Nyquist....But everything being said about him is that he's big, fast, good defensively, actually uses his size, and will most likely make a great 4th line checker one day. More up side than down.

K well Holland said that about Q, not me. But what does he know. I'd post the article for you if I had it, I read it after someone posted it on a thread like a month ago. Q is not at all like E though. He's another White, good on D, good on O, good skater. Not great at anything but a decent two-way defensman, who's not a liability anywhere on the ice. Again, he had a bad 18 games on a new team, not a bad year at all.

Of course I can't give you evidence lol, what you want me to see the future? You seem to have a pretty low hopes for the team next year, I on the other hand trust Holland. He knows better than any of us and he hasn't let me down yet. For all I know Brunner's going to put up 30 goals and 50+ points, Smith is going to put up 30 points, and Sammy is going to add another 15 goals and 30 points....I don't know though, but I'm going to trust Holland and be optimistic about.

Oh and no, not only do I personally think it would be dumb to overpay for Yandle, but I don't believe Holland would ever do that either. Were not going to sell Bert or Cleary though either....Holland loves Cleary and Bert doesn't have enough trade value to make selling him worth while. Were probablly going to dump depth forwards with value like Eaves, Miller, Abby, Mursak, Emmerton, for a depth d-man.



that may mean he wants go play in the KHL when he's like 40 though



LAK was a #8 seed and NJD was a #6 seed...making the playoffs is making the playoffs...which we will do...we still have all the assets that make us a cup contending team.


I agree its possible from 8th place to win the cup, and we have a lot of good parts, but selling the farm to get Yandle or the flavor of the month in February to try to make it a lock to me is a bad idea.
Feuer und Wasser kommt nicht zusammen
Kann man nicht binden sind nicht verwandt
In Funken versunken steh ich in Flammen
und bin im Wasser verbrannt
Im Wasser verbrannt

#28 EastonWings

EastonWings

    4th Line Grinder

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 320 posts

Posted 06 July 2012 - 03:31 PM

Well said number 9. Losing lidstrom,raffy and Stu hurts our d badly. No need to panic tho as far as rebuilding. In the end when the Cba expires next yr. Were gonna see teams that are over paying and in cap prison start dropping guys left and right. This will be our time to pounce on some free agents. As far as a rebuild we don't need to rebuild every yr we bring in one or two rookies at camp with the opp to earn a roster spot whether they earn over our veterans is another thing. Nyquist. B smith and brunner all young. If we can sign a semin and make a move fpr a decent defensman we will be okay.

Edited by EastonWings, 06 July 2012 - 03:34 PM.


#29 number9

number9

    All The Best Players Wear A 9

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,357 posts
  • Location:Buffalo

Posted 06 July 2012 - 03:42 PM

Well said number 9. Losing lidstrom,raffy and Stu hurts our d badly. No need to panic tho as far as rebuilding. In the end when the Cba expires next yr. Were gonna see teams that are over paying and in cap prison start dropping guys left and right. This will be our time to pounce on some free agents. As far as a rebuild we don't need to rebuild every yr we bring in one or two rookies at camp with the opp to earn a roster spot whether they earn over our veterans is another thing. Nyquist. B smith and brunner all young. If we can sign a semin and make a move fpr a decent defensman we will be okay.


Kronwall - White
Ericsson - Quincey
Smith - Kindl

^ not too upset by this....Smith and Kindl need to be given their chance. Everyone says Smith is so good and so ready so hell this may as well be his year with our D torn apart. And Kindl hasnt shown much but he also hasn't played that much. I still think he's got somehting in there like E did. Hopefully it's this year. Still say we should dump some bottom 6ers for another D man thou

#30 JasonNewEra

JasonNewEra

    4th Line Grinder

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 269 posts
  • Location:Westland

Posted 06 July 2012 - 03:58 PM

Are you 6? The only player I disagree with people about is Andersson.

As for Dats, hes said more than once that he wants to play in Russia in the future, when that future is no one knows, but, the Wings can't count on him to be here till hes 40 like someone suggested.

And again are you going to go on the record and say the Wings aren't going to be 6-10th this season? Because the difference between 6th place and 9th is usualy 4 to 7 points, that's 2 loses that separate a playoff team from a non-playoff team.


Okay, no. I'm not six, I was making fun cause you sounded like everything anybody told you was false cause you said so.

Datsyuk in Russia? Yeah, maybe, in like 10 years. I guess I'm not seeing this 7th-9th place team your talking about. I see a team that needs One more really good defenseman and a decent goal scorer. They are competing against some good teams in the most solid division in Hockey. However, the Predators just got beatable, the Blues I believe were a flukey team that went on an AMAZING stretch. Chicago is a threat but not that great as they didn't really get any better. Do I even need to say anything about Columbus?

What gives you the thought that we are a moderate to crappy team?

12412215175_9591987538_o.jpg


#31 EastonWings

EastonWings

    4th Line Grinder

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 320 posts

Posted 07 July 2012 - 01:34 PM

Chill kids

Edited by EastonWings, 07 July 2012 - 01:54 PM.


#32 EastonWings

EastonWings

    4th Line Grinder

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 320 posts

Posted 07 July 2012 - 01:53 PM

People seem to forget our system of playing defense not to mention we have two of thee best two way forwards in the world in z and dats. I really think kindl and smith will suprise people. If our farm system is right and how the wings bring guys up later rather then right away like other teams. We will be okay. Holland is the best in the business and he always has a plan for the wings. Quincy came from Colorado system and was in transition the last few weeks. He will play better with training camp under his belt. Kindl needs to play on line with someone who will stay back when he wants to gamble. He's young and has alot to learn but his upside is good much like jiri Fischer when he first came into the league. Fischer was just starting to come into his own in year four. Sadly he had to retire for health reasons. My point. Patience! These guys will be okay. Worst case the wings stink it up we will get something we haven't had in 20 plus seasons. A really really good first rd pick.

#33 EastonWings

EastonWings

    4th Line Grinder

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 320 posts

Posted 07 July 2012 - 11:42 PM

Just how many shut down defensman are there in the NHL? Not to many bubb. All we need is a solid defensman since there are no shut dmen available in free agency not to mention no team would trade Detroit their franchise d. Holland would have to give up alot of youth to land a solid defensman. I don't see it happining since he keeps insisting he's good with what we have. He's gonna sit back and wait for a new Cba and put the wings in the right position cap wise to land someone. As long as we have z,pavel were gonna be competitive. Truth is we cannot replace a legend. Wasn't kindl and smith drafted in rd 1 it's obvious the organization thinks highly of them both being they drafted pavel,z and lidstrom in what rd? Look how they turned out by giving them ice time and patience





Similar Topics Collapse

0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users