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#21 atodaso

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Posted 06 July 2012 - 07:19 PM

Exactly. How does fan excitement not play a role at all? Is anyone truly stoked to buy tickets for the Red Wings right now? I will still attend, but there is going to be minimal buzz around the team if they go into the season with this group.


After 21 straight years of winning, you would think the fans would have a little more faith than this.

#22 ShanahanMan

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Posted 06 July 2012 - 07:20 PM

How much will you donate to a charity of the community's choice if you're wrong?


$50 sounds fair. Question is, how much will you donate if I'm right?

Edited by ShanahanMan, 06 July 2012 - 07:20 PM.



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#23 Jericho613

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Posted 06 July 2012 - 07:21 PM

Elite or not, as it stands, they have a much stronger roster than us and I'm willing to guarantee that they finish ahead of us in the standings next season.


I respectfully disagree. Suter and Parise make them better on paper, but I still think they will place 7 or 8 tops. I can see the Wings making 4-6 seed.

Edited by Jericho613, 06 July 2012 - 07:23 PM.


#24 GoWings1905

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Posted 06 July 2012 - 07:25 PM

After 21 straight years of winning, you would think the fans would have a little more faith than this.


Faith in what? I still love the team, but they won one playoff game and got noticeably worse since then.

You (not you directly; the front office more) cannot rely on the past success of the team to continue forward just because of their amazing run. Let's be honest -- the Red Wings have been a stale group since 2009 now and with three early playoff exits, fans need a new reason to feel excited beyond everything the organization has done for two decades.
 
 
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#25 Salviaman

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Posted 06 July 2012 - 07:29 PM

Tootoo and Sammy are not going to energize the fan base either lol.
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#26 GoWings1905

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Posted 06 July 2012 - 07:32 PM

Tootoo and Sammy are not going to energize the fan base either lol.


Exactly. The face of the franchise is gone too.
 
 
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#27 atodaso

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Posted 06 July 2012 - 07:33 PM

Faith in what? I still love the team, but they won one playoff game and got noticeably worse since then.

You (not you directly; the front office more) cannot rely on the past success of the team to continue forward just because of their amazing run. Let's be honest -- the Red Wings have been a stale group since 2009 now and with three early playoff exits, fans need a new reason to feel excited beyond everything the organization has done for two decades.


I totally agree about not relying on past success and also about the Wings being a stale group since that SCF loss. In fact, ever since, the way the Wings play hockey has been stale. It almost feels like the other teams have figured us out. And it makes you wonder how the St. Louis Blues can come out of nowhere and almost win the Presidents' Trophy. Even more so, how does an 8th seeded team win the whole thing! (Parity, I know, I know.)

All I'm saying is that making a signing or two would make us better (and excite the fan base) but it doesn't guarantee success. And this team is still a good team. Like Holland said; Any team with Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Franzen, Filppula, Kronwall, Howard and Helm on it is a good team.

#28 Rivalred

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Posted 06 July 2012 - 07:39 PM

We have been spoiled... Time for some growing pains
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#29 Carman

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Posted 06 July 2012 - 07:40 PM

Repeat after me. Red Wings have 17 million dollars in cap space.

That is all.

#30 GoWings1905

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Posted 06 July 2012 - 07:43 PM

I totally agree about not relying on past success and also about the Wings being a stale group since that SCF loss. In fact, ever since, the way the Wings play hockey has been stale. It almost feels like the other teams have figured us out. And it makes you wonder how the St. Louis Blues can come out of nowhere and almost win the Presidents' Trophy. Even more so, how does an 8th seeded team win the whole thing! (Parity, I know, I know.)

All I'm saying is that making a signing or two would make us better (and excite the fan base) but it doesn't guarantee success. And this team is still a good team. Like Holland said; Any team with Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Franzen, Filppula, Kronwall, Howard and Helm on it is a good team.


Great point. Definitely agree with you in the second paragraph too. There are still some very good pieces on this Red Wings team. I'm cautiously optimistic that some moves will still be made to complement those players and maybe push the Red Wings back closer to contending.

Some new blood and continuing that winning tradition will energize the fans again.
 
 
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#31 Datsyukian_Deke_13

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Posted 06 July 2012 - 07:51 PM

I would have to agree with the OP...
The Wild is a team that hasn't made the playoffs for 4 years and finished under .500 last season..
Sorry, but these two players are not going to turn this team into stanley Cup champions. They MIGHT make the playoffs, but they won't go deep...

Edited by Datsyukian_Deke_13, 06 July 2012 - 07:56 PM.


#32 atodaso

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Posted 06 July 2012 - 07:55 PM

Great point. Definitely agree with you in the second paragraph too. There are still some very good pieces on this Red Wings team. I'm cautiously optimistic that some moves will still be made to complement those players and maybe push the Red Wings back closer to contending.

Some new blood and continuing that winning tradition will energize the fans again.


Yea see that's another thing. "Continuing the winning tradition." Ever since the lock-out this team has been cautious in making big changes to the roster. Signing Suter would've been awesome at the right price and term length. And I guess it would've been great if he was signed for 13 years and $90m like Kenny offered. But only because we are desperate for D-men, not because Suter is that good. IMO, these new contracts are getting way out of hand. How the hell does Parise deserve $12m this season while Jimmy Howard gets only $2.25m? It's outrageous.

As far as trading for Ryan or Yandle, or even Nash...
I think it would be great if we had these guys on our team because we have the cap space. But if you trade Franzen and Filppula and some youth/picks for Ryan or Nash, what have you really added? Same goes for adding Yandle.

Edit: Btw, isn't it time you changed your avatar? :tounge:

Edited by atodaso, 06 July 2012 - 07:56 PM.


#33 Z Winged Dangler

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Posted 06 July 2012 - 07:59 PM

They have one good defenseman (and one or two borderline ones). Their goalie is middle of the road. These days, that could be good or bad. And their offense looks good on paper but wound up scoring the least in the league last year. They added Parise but I don't see one player transforming their lackluster offense. Specifically, they will have one very good (on paper) top line, a decent second line, and nothing under that.

They might make playoffs, but won't make any noise if they get in. Maybe 5 years from now they might have a one and done hot season, but no. They're just a middle of the road team.

this is the same thing i was telling my buddy at work. they still crap depth. beyond a top line of Parise-Koivu-Heatley
they have Granlund-Bouchard-Setoguchi. A rookie who hasn't played in the NHL yet making 2.1 mil, a centre who i'd be pretty choked if he was the Wings 2nd line C, and Dive-on-gooch....nuff said. Their 3rd and 4th lines consist of plugs. Their D now has Suter and Scandella followed by a way overpaid Tom Gilbert at 4mil per. the cherry on top is Backstrom at 6mil per. They will ultimately lose half of their prospects the same way Chicago lost theirs after what someone earlier mentioned as a one and done, but Chicago had way more depth when they won the cup that i just don't see the Wild having with 5 guys making over 6mil per year.

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#34 LeftWinger

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Posted 06 July 2012 - 08:03 PM

all the naysayers on here are ending our season already? Holland isn't done... Doan is still there, there was just a report that Holland is in the hunt of Bobby Ryan, so it's not like we have sunk to the deepest depths of the Central division. I would say if Holland got Ryan, Doan and Kubina, other than Suter being better than most of our D, and honestly, I would put Kronwall right up there with him...Kronner had 37 points being on the 2nd pairing, Suter had 46 points on the 1st pairing...when it comes to hitting, Kronwall eats him up all day. I would give Suter the nod defensively, but other than that, pretty equal...except when it comes to pay...

Parise actually had better centers in NJ. Koivu is really good, but there is only room for one leftwing on his line and Heatley will start bitching if he gets bumped off of it...he is the f***in allstar you know...

It's not like I am saying they aren't any better, of course these two makes them tons better, but I think Parise scores less in Minny than he did in NJ...I could be wrong, but we will see. I am more afraid of the Blues (:puke: oh....excuse me that just snuck up on me) than I am of the Wild... They are not in the central so we won't see them as much as I'd like, but no, I am not afraid. As long as Holland isn't done. Ryan, Doan, Kubina and I think Holland is ready to roll...

FORWARDS
Johan Franzen ($3.955m) / Pavel Datsyuk ($6.700m) / Bobby Ryan ($5.100m)
Shane Doan ($5.750m) / Henrik Zetterberg ($6.083m) / Damien Brunner ($1.350m)
Gustav Nyquist ($0.875m) / Darren Helm ($2.125m) / Mikael Samuelsson ($3.000m)
Todd Bertuzzi ($2.075m) / Justin Abdelkader ($1.500m) / Jordin Tootoo ($1.900m)
Drew Miller ($0.838m) / Patrick Eaves ($1.200m) /
DEFENSEMEN
Niklas Kronwall ($4.750m) / Pavel Kubina ($3.000m)
Kyle Quincey ($3.550m) / Ian White ($2.875m)
Brendan Smith ($0.875m) / Jonathan Ericsson ($3.250m)
Jakub Kindl ($0.883m) /
GOALTENDERS
Jimmy Howard ($2.250m)
Jonas Gustavsson ($1.500m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $70,200,000; CAP PAYROLL: $65,383,712; BONUSES: $462,500
CAP SPACE (23-man roster): $4,816,288

It's not as pretty as having Parise and Suter on there, but it's still a very VERY good roster...

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#35 Hey man nice shot!

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Posted 06 July 2012 - 08:05 PM

Elite or not, as it stands, they have a much stronger roster than us and I'm willing to guarantee that they finish ahead of us in the standings next season.

Way to early to say for our team. I would have to say they have a strong case to be contenders.

#36 Pskov Wings Fan

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Posted 06 July 2012 - 08:06 PM

I respectfully disagree. Suter and Parise make them better on paper, but I still think they will place 7 or 8 tops. I can see the Wings making 4-6 seed.


If they manage to win the division then they are at least 3rd. And the Wild should be able to compete for the NW division.
Wild forwards are as good if not better than Vancouver. Vancouver got better defense. Luongo apparently on the way out but regardless Wild and Canucks got comparable goaltending.

#37 RedFlag85

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Posted 06 July 2012 - 08:07 PM

I'll take that bet. They were last in the league in "goals for". So, unless Zach Parise scores 40 goals and 100 pts. (which he's never done in his career), they haven't really improved that much. Suter helps the defense, which was middle of the road at best.


Maybe not 100 points but in 09 he came damn close: 45 goals, and 49 assists for 94 points.

#38 atodaso

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Posted 06 July 2012 - 08:18 PM

FORWARDS
Johan Franzen ($3.955m) / Pavel Datsyuk ($6.700m) / Bobby Ryan ($5.100m)
Shane Doan ($5.750m) / Henrik Zetterberg ($6.083m) / Damien Brunner ($1.350m)
Gustav Nyquist ($0.875m) / Darren Helm ($2.125m) / Mikael Samuelsson ($3.000m)
Todd Bertuzzi ($2.075m) / Justin Abdelkader ($1.500m) / Jordin Tootoo ($1.900m)
Drew Miller ($0.838m) / Patrick Eaves ($1.200m) /
DEFENSEMEN
Niklas Kronwall ($4.750m) / Pavel Kubina ($3.000m)
Kyle Quincey ($3.550m) / Ian White ($2.875m)
Brendan Smith ($0.875m) / Jonathan Ericsson ($3.250m)
Jakub Kindl ($0.883m) /
GOALTENDERS
Jimmy Howard ($2.250m)
Jonas Gustavsson ($1.500m)


So, we are gonna land Bobby Ryan and still somehow hang on to Franzen, Nyquist, Brunner, Helm, Abdelkader, Quincey and Smith? Even if they wanted to trade Ryan for Filppula, Cleary and Kindl, I wouldn't be too crazy about that deal. I don't know why everyone is s***ting on Flip. The guy had a career year (finally). He's only going to get better. I'd rather trade Franzen for Ryan (more because of the length of Franzen's contract than any thing else).
Also, I think Doan would be one hell of an addition but $5.75m? I know he could probably get that from a dozen teams in today's market but that would be an overpayment imo. The guy is 36 after all. Unless we're talking one year deal?

#39 Pskov Wings Fan

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Posted 06 July 2012 - 08:25 PM

this is the same thing i was telling my buddy at work. they still crap depth. beyond a top line of Parise-Koivu-Heatley
they have Granlund-Bouchard-Setoguchi. A rookie who hasn't played in the NHL yet making 2.1 mil, a centre who i'd be pretty choked if he was the Wings 2nd line C, and Dive-on-gooch....nuff said. Their 3rd and 4th lines consist of plugs. Their D now has Suter and Scandella followed by a way overpaid Tom Gilbert at 4mil per. the cherry on top is Backstrom at 6mil per. They will ultimately lose half of their prospects the same way Chicago lost theirs after what someone earlier mentioned as a one and done, but Chicago had way more depth when they won the cup that i just don't see the Wild having with 5 guys making over 6mil per year.


I do see Wild playing quite a bit. So I would offer few comments on Wild players. Koivu is a very good center. Bouchard is injury-prone, but when he is playing he is good enough to be second line center. Very few team are lucky to have Dats-Z or Crosby-Malkin as their top centers. And are you really saying that there is much difference in quality of bottom 6 plugs between Red Wings and Wild (Cleary, Helm, Tootoo, Eaves, Nyquist, Miller vs Cullen, Brodziak, Mitchell, Clutterbuck, Powe, Konopka)?

I haven't seen Gilbert enough to tell how good he is. Otherwise Jared Spurgeon is Wild's best d-man after Suter.

Backstorm got one year left. He will not be paid 6M by Wild if he stays.

#40 Pskov Wings Fan

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Posted 06 July 2012 - 08:32 PM

I don't know why everyone is s***ting on Flip.


I also do not understand that. He would be a solid second line center on half (if not more) NHL teams.





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