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Ken Holland, Post-Scotty Bowman

ken holland scotty bowman

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#61 Crymson

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 04:28 PM

seems easy to GM a hockey team with 20/20 hindsight vision.


Prepare the time machine, Watson!

#62 pucktividi

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 12:20 AM

seems easy to GM a hockey team with 20/20 hindsight vision.


...by recycling the veterans that 'know the system'

#63 Shaman

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 12:22 AM

...by recycling the veterans that 'know the system'

Better get out the welcome banners for Hudler in 4 years.
Feuer und Wasser kommt nicht zusammen
Kann man nicht binden sind nicht verwandt
In Funken versunken steh ich in Flammen
und bin im Wasser verbrannt
Im Wasser verbrannt

#64 Heaten

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 02:38 AM

Actually, the Wings were prepared to offer Suter a pretty big contract themselves.

So Holland is that stupid.


I don't remember any reports of Holland offer two players $196million. Pretty sure they only offered Suter $80, then upped it to $90,which was their maximum bid. Glad he didn't take it. That's insane money for an above average defenseman.

#65 Crymson

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 03:19 AM

Better get out the welcome banners for Hudler in 4 years.


How many times has that joke been used now?

#66 Shaman

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 03:40 AM

How many times has that joke been used now?

It was mine first. And I like it, and its probably true, so get use to it.
Feuer und Wasser kommt nicht zusammen
Kann man nicht binden sind nicht verwandt
In Funken versunken steh ich in Flammen
und bin im Wasser verbrannt
Im Wasser verbrannt

#67 The Axe

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 10:16 AM

Holland needs to be fired now.

#68 puckbags

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 10:40 AM

4 Year sample size? Cmon...How many Gm's have won 3 Stanley cups since 1997...waiting..waiting..waiting..there isn't any..it's more like 4 cups because the first one he was basically the GM..Bowman was on his way out. We go 4 years without a cup and this place goes bananas. We need to get better and I will be pissed if we don't make some moves but relax..the chips will fall where they may.

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#69 Johnz96

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 10:47 AM

I don't remember any reports of Holland offer two players $196million. Pretty sure they only offered Suter $80, then upped it to $90,which was their maximum bid. Glad he didn't take it. That's insane money for an above average defenseman.

He is better than above average but hardly worth the contract

#70 StormJH1

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 10:59 AM

Would you rather be Chicago right now? We were in the Cup Finals back to back years, then Chicago and the Bowmans get one Cup by being as dumb with the Salary Cap as possible, despite having TONS of young talent.

Detroit never bottomed out, so as far as I'm concerned, they might as well give away draft picks in the end of the 1st round (or lower) because Detroit seems as likely to hit in the 3rd round with some international player as they do anywhere else. The draft system is designed to gradually make bad teams better and slowly punish perennial playoff teams. Holland and Co. managed to buck that system for YEARS and still put a competitive team out there every season. They even managed to develop a pretty solid goalie out of a guy who was hardly a Luongo, DiPietro, or Fleury-type pick in terms of hype.

It is true that the Red Wings have been notoriously (and purposefully) short-sighted in many of their moves, but that's what you do when you already have a core of superstars like #13, #40, and #5. Now those guys are older (or retired), so I agree it is time to either sign or trade for someone younger who can make an impact. But to rip them for Leino (who they got for virtually nothing out of the Finnish Elite League) or guys like Tatar (who have barely gotten a cup of tea in the NHL yet) seems a bit unfair.

#71 Heaten

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 11:22 AM

He is better than above average but hardly worth the contract


I can think of several dmen I would take over Suter if I had the chance. From Weber, Keith, Chara, and many,many more. I would argue Drew Doughty is a much better dman.

Suter hasn't won anything.

#72 evilzyme

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 12:36 PM

Holland had an interview out of prospect camp quoting him saying that he did his best to grab suter. When he first contacted their agents they both said they didnt need to play together. Holland went after suter for our needs and straight up said the truth, " you cant have 4-6 11,12,13 yr contracts. And its the truth, you handcuff yourself. So with holland hearing that they werent a package deal and going after what we needed what else did you want him to do? The man tried, some of you act like he straight up hung up and said f you to both of them. He also stated that the babcock and zetterberg thing is fine. The players dont dispise babcock and that wasnt an influence in them not coming.

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#73 Heaten

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 12:41 PM

Holland had an interview out of prospect camp quoting him saying that he did his best to grab suter. When he first contacted their agents they both said they didnt need to play together. Holland went after suter for our needs and straight up said the truth, " you cant have 4-6 11,12,13 yr contracts. And its the truth, you handcuff yourself. So with holland hearing that they werent a package deal and going after what we needed what else did you want him to do? The man tried, some of you act like he straight up hung up and said f you to both of them. He also stated that the babcock and zetterberg thing is fine. The players dont dispise babcock and that wasnt an influence in them not coming.


Careful, your reason won;'t go over too well over here. Didn't you know it was Holland's fault for global warming and the housing crash in America?

#74 esteef

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 12:49 PM

It's not that Holland didn't get Suter, it's that getting Suter was apparently his only f***in' plan. And now he's scrambling to fill a hole he knew was coming for years because his brilliant plan of waiting til the last minute didn't work out. But don't let that stop all the Holland poodles from defending him.

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#75 beachwing

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 12:50 PM

Not only is it raining here in FL today...Gas went up 9 cents overnight!!!

Thanks a lot Kenny!!!

#76 Crymson

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 12:53 PM

It's not that Holland didn't get Suter, it's that getting Suter was apparently his only f***in' plan. And now he's scrambling to fill a hole he knew was coming for years because his brilliant plan of waiting til the last minute didn't work out. But don't let that stop all the Holland poodles from defending him.

esteef


You've been asked numerous times for examples of moves that you feel he should have made instead. You haven't deigned to give any yet.

#77 esteef

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 12:57 PM

You've been asked numerous times for examples of moves that you feel he should have made instead. You haven't deigned to give any yet.


ANYBODY, cuz right now there's no one. Good? K Bye.

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#78 Heaten

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 01:17 PM

ANYBODY, cuz right now there's no one. Good? K Bye.

esteef


Lemme guess, Jeff Finger, Brett Lebda and Cam Barker. Let Smith sit and rot another year.... amiright?

Kenny Holland needs to sign players just to sign them, that's how arm-chair GMs roll!

Edited by Heaten, 09 July 2012 - 01:18 PM.


#79 esteef

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 01:23 PM

Lemme guess, Jeff Finger, Brett Lebda and Cam Barker. Let Smith sit and rot another year.... amiright?

Kenny Holland needs to sign players just to sign them, that's how arm-chair GMs roll!


Exactly what I meant! :crazy:

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#80 kipwinger

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 02:01 PM

Most of this is completely B.S. Scotty Bowman, as a coach (and especially as an advisor), didn't have anything to do with who got scouted, rated, and ultimately drafted by the Wings. Giving Bowman and not Holland credit for finding and drafting the likes Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Kronwall, Franzen, etc. is completely absurd. Unless Scotty was secretly flying over to Sweden and Russia to catch games, I'd say his role was rather limited.

As a coach he probably did play a fairly large part in what free agents were signed and who made it through camp and all that. But this nonsense might as well give him credit for sunshine.

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