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How bad are we if our roster is now finalized?


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#241 Z Winged Dangler

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Posted 12 July 2012 - 12:39 PM

Translation: you don't have any examples. Because it would have taken you substantially less time to simply list them than it has for you to type up numerous posts about why you aren't giving any. Have fun yelling.

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#242 Z Winged Dangler

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Posted 12 July 2012 - 12:44 PM

How many other teams have substantially improved in this offseason?

Honestly, not that many teams really improved this offseason enough for it to matter. The Wild improved, but before that they were a joke with no depth, now they just have minimal depth. The Habs improved. The Canucks barely got better, signed Garrison and lost Salo. The Lightning are better, but it came with a lot of cost. That being said, their roster is pretty impressive right now. If Yzerman could trade Lecavalier's contract away for some more assets he'd be set.

http://capgeek.com/charts.php?Team=28

The Carle signing was an overpayment, but i for one think Tampa may be contenders now.

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#243 Wing Across The Pond

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Posted 12 July 2012 - 12:57 PM

Nah dood, if we overpay just one guy we'll be the laughing stock of the NHL and our franchise will be crippled for decades to come! Hide the Money! Corral the assets!

esteef


As I mentioned earlier, I don't think Holland is against overpaying, just not for guys that are going to be dogs*** in 10 years when we're still paying them $7-7.5 at 40. Overpay for someone like Weber who is going to remain a Top 5 D man for a good number of years, not for Suter who was the best of what was on offer. I mean think about it, if we get Weber next year for the same contract that Suter is on now, we get the better deal. After all Suter wasn't the best on the blue line in NSH whilst Weber was there, so surely we'd be getting the better player for the same price? In my mind that's better business than throwing the money at the best of what's available and then having someone else take a better player the next year. Hope I'm making sense in all this...

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#244 haroldsnepsts

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Posted 12 July 2012 - 01:33 PM

Translation: you don't have any examples. Because it would have taken you substantially less time to simply list them than it has for you to type up numerous posts about why you aren't giving any. Have fun yelling.

crymson

Your position seems to be that unless someone can provide concrete examples of players that were available, trades that almost definitely would go through, and would almost certainly improve the team, they shouldn't complain.

That's an absurd expectation. At the time who would've predicted that Holland could get Stuart from the Kings for a 2nd and 4th pick? Or taking the Kings as an example, who would've thought they'd get Richards for Simmonds, Schenn and a pick? Or trade a defenseman they'd recently signed long term to bring in Carter? And that both of those trades would be huge factors in their Cup win?

It's likely you would've shot down all of those trades as unrealistic or wouldn't improve the team. But who the hell knows until they actually happen?

If I could provide those kind of examples beforehand, I'd take Holland's friggin job. I'm not complaining because I think he sucks. I'm complaining because I think he's one of the best GM's in the NHL, so he better be able to come up with some moves that the average fan couldn't know about.

It's awful hard to provide irrefutable evidence for a trade that didn't happen. That doesn't mean I can't be unhappy with what Holland is saying and doing. For now I'm withholding full judgment until the summer is over. But Lidstrom retiring is something he and management should've started planning for 10 years ago. Looking at our blueline right now, it sure doesn't feel like they did.

Your position seems to be that if Holland made the move, it was the right one. If he didn't, it wouldn't have made the team better or it would've cost too much. The only thing I've heard you complain about regarding Holland was Ericsson, which you were wrong about.

#245 Frozen-Man

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Posted 12 July 2012 - 01:33 PM

Honest question here...

How much $$$ does Ilitch make when his team is bounced outta the 1st round of the playoffs?

How much $$$ does he make by having the team play golf by mid/late April?

I understand the need to "watch your pennies" in a cap world, but there's alot of space to play with, and Detroit has been a team that's sat around, and watches as others improve...Over paying on 1, or 2 players isn't gonna wreck this franchise - we're not Phoenix.


I don't think that the concern is so much that overpaying will hurt the team in terms of actual cash or that it will hurt them capwise this year but rather that most players want more than 1-2 year deals, especially if they are very good players capable of really impacting a team (and these decade long contracts I think have a tendency to make players think 3-4 year deals are even short terms).

The big FA class is next year and that is where the problem arises. Not only are there much bigger names next year (that likely wouldn't hurt near as bad as over paying for mediocre players this year) but also Flip and Howard are UFAs next year (as is Brunner which may or may not matter next year depending on how he turns out) and Dats (and to a much lesser degree Ericsson) is the next year , additionally Nyquist and Smith are both RFAs and may get hefty raises (especially Smith depending on his play). I don't care if Holland greatly overpays if it is a 1 year contract but I think is concern is that the cap may go down under the new CBA and he has lots of Wings to re-sign and would like to be able to make a splash next year on FA that really matter.

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#246 Konnan511

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Posted 12 July 2012 - 01:54 PM

All I hear is wah wah wah. I'll be smiling in May when we are in the playoffs yet again.
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#247 HadThomasVokounOnFortSt

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Posted 12 July 2012 - 03:38 PM

Here's how it goes, Wings vs Wild 1st round, we beat them and then we say Suter should of came here :)

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#248 Heaten

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Posted 12 July 2012 - 03:41 PM

Here's how it goes, Wings vs Wild 1st round, we beat them and then we say Suter should of came here :)


Wild have to make the playoffs first...

#249 MulesWillFly93

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Posted 12 July 2012 - 04:25 PM

Hard to say. As usual, a big deciding factor will be whether we can stay healthy for the most part. It'll definitely be a LOT harder without Lidstrom, but I also think Hank's been feeling better than he has in a while, which is helpful. I think Franzen is a big scale-tipper, too. IF, and it's a big if, he can get it together and put in the effort, then we could be pretty darn good on offense. That still leaves a huge hole in defense, so I don't know...I think we could still make the playoffs, but I doubt we'd get very far.

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#250 Johnz96

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Posted 12 July 2012 - 05:27 PM

And Weber is a much better fit here being a right-handed shot, would improve our PP and provide a big tough physical presence we need

#251 BuckeyeWingsfan80

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Posted 12 July 2012 - 05:40 PM

LA was comfortably in the playoffs at 95 points last year.

With a 23 game winning streak, one of the best d-men ever, another good d-man in Stuart and Hudler having a career year, the Wings had 102 points.

I don't see how the Wings will be any better than 90-93 points with this current roster right now.
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#252 F.Michael

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Posted 12 July 2012 - 06:53 PM

All I hear is wah wah wah. I'll be smiling in May when we are in the playoffs yet again.

I wish I shared your optimism.

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#253 stevkrause

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Posted 12 July 2012 - 07:09 PM

Your position seems to be that unless someone can provide concrete examples of players that were available, trades that almost definitely would go through, and would almost certainly improve the team, they shouldn't complain.

That's an absurd expectation. At the time who would've predicted that Holland could get Stuart from the Kings for a 2nd and 4th pick? Or taking the Kings as an example, who would've thought they'd get Richards for Simmonds, Schenn and a pick? Or trade a defenseman they'd recently signed long term to bring in Carter? And that both of those trades would be huge factors in their Cup win?

It's likely you would've shot down all of those trades as unrealistic or wouldn't improve the team. But who the hell knows until they actually happen?

If I could provide those kind of examples beforehand, I'd take Holland's friggin job. I'm not complaining because I think he sucks. I'm complaining because I think he's one of the best GM's in the NHL, so he better be able to come up with some moves that the average fan couldn't know about.

It's awful hard to provide irrefutable evidence for a trade that didn't happen. That doesn't mean I can't be unhappy with what Holland is saying and doing. For now I'm withholding full judgment until the summer is over. But Lidstrom retiring is something he and management should've started planning for 10 years ago. Looking at our blueline right now, it sure doesn't feel like they did.

Your position seems to be that if Holland made the move, it was the right one. If he didn't, it wouldn't have made the team better or it would've cost too much. The only thing I've heard you complain about regarding Holland was Ericsson, which you were wrong about.

For the record, you can't plan for what happened to Konstantinov OR Fischer, let alone both... Both, were, or were on their way to being, a top 2 defenseman, Konstantinov, a yearly Norris hopeful... Most teams would not have recovered from those losses ever, let alone gone on to win cups shortly thereafter...

Edited by stevkrause, 12 July 2012 - 07:12 PM.

All I have to say about Holland and our off-season:

Here in this thread

Here in this one as well

Here in this one too

and finally

Here


Holland is a damn good GM. period.


#254 LeftWinger

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Posted 12 July 2012 - 08:43 PM

I'd rather the Wild just not make the playoffs, if we did pay them in the 1st round, we'd have to deal with you know who for a couple of weeks...

I don't think we suck, but we lack a legit top 6 scorer, I am afraid to play the wait and see game with Brunner and Nyquist...just my nerves....argh!

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#255 Salviaman

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Posted 12 July 2012 - 08:46 PM

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#256 GMRwings1983

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Posted 12 July 2012 - 10:21 PM

We're so bad that even Crymson and Nightfall probably believe deep down that we'll miss the playoffs.
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#257 Shaman

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Posted 12 July 2012 - 11:19 PM

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Seriously, I keep saying this, it seems there is no middle ground here... its either 'the Wings are fine and they will win forever and ever and ever' or 'The Wings better start scouting the top draft candidates now, because they are a lottery team'. This team is clearly a bubble team as it stands right now, its neither good enough to be considered elite nor bad enough to be considered a bottom feeder. As I said in other threads, I am afraid this team will become like Calgary, coming up a little short, not making it in the playoffs, or getting bounced early, and the management never seeing the forest for the trees and addressing the problems because they are always 'that close' to being there.

Edited by Shaman464, 13 July 2012 - 12:07 AM.

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#258 mackel

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Posted 12 July 2012 - 11:32 PM

It's been interesting reading all of this on the sidelines. But let me throw this out there, do you consider the Flames as likely to make the playoffs? If you look at the current rosters of Calgary and Detroit as they stand right now... Their is a lot of similarity, some proven players, some roster fillers and some younger guys getting a shot. Personally I don't think either team will be consistent enough to make the playoffs, they will be close, fight to the end but simply not be talented or deep enough to make it.

#259 55fan

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Posted 12 July 2012 - 11:38 PM

We'll know well before the playoffs if the new kids have what it takes or not. Sure, sometimes guys show up for the playoffs, or a new kid just clicks at the right time, but speaking in general terms, we'll know by then what we seriously need.

That said, the beginning of the season might be a bit rough.

#260 Johnz96

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Posted 13 July 2012 - 04:33 AM

It's been interesting reading all of this on the sidelines. But let me throw this out there, do you consider the Flames as likely to make the playoffs? If you look at the current rosters of Calgary and Detroit as they stand right now... Their is a lot of similarity, some proven players, some roster fillers and some younger guys getting a shot. Personally I don't think either team will be consistent enough to make the playoffs, they will be close, fight to the end but simply not be talented or deep enough to make it.


More comparable to the Blue Jackets than the Flames. Who is supposed to be the #1 pick next year?





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