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How bad are we if our roster is now finalized?


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#161 Xraymind7781

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 06:41 PM

This is not how the Wings go about their business. The letters on the jerseys are earned. It would have been a huge slap in the face if Parise had signed and had the captaincy handed to him over Dats or Z. No way would this have happened. Anyway, it's a moot point anyway as Parise did not sign here.


Just as it is a moot point for you to speculate how wings go about the buisness of naming captains. How many captancy changes do you have as reference in the past 30 years?

#162 Hatethedrake!

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 06:44 PM

Just as it is a moot point for you to speculate how wings go about the buisness of naming captains. How many captancy changes do you have as reference in the past 30 years?


Oh lets see here...Yzerman was captain for what...20 years? Lidstrom took over for him after playing for the Wings what...15 years? So now they would hand it to a player such as Parise who has never played for them? LOL Yeah ok guy. Parise would have been captain of the Wings had he signed here. :sarcasm:
Jordan Tootoo will wreck shop.

We need someone like Parise that can penetrate the box.-blueadams

#163 Xraymind7781

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 06:49 PM

I dont think you could be any more wrong - but that's just my opinion. I dont think the Wings work that way. Plus, despite your perceived decline in Zetterberg's on ice play does not hold any weight in considering his leadership skills. As I said, just my opinion, but I would be shocked if Z isn't the new captain and I would have been even more shocked had the Wings given the C, or even an A, to a newly signed player.


I agree, I'm sure Z will be the new captain. And thats the best possible guy on the roster in my opinion. And I do realize Captaincy doesnt really have anything to do with productivity on a stats basis, i simply used the term decline to suggest that they might like to have somone capable of leading the team who may be a staple here for a bit longer.

I just don't buy into the idea that Captaincy is a seniority thing. I think thats a terrible way to look for leadership. You give it to the person most capable of motivating and directing his teammates. How long had Yzerman been in the organization before he was given the "C"?

#164 Crymson

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 07:36 PM

I just don't buy into the idea that Captaincy is a seniority thing. I think thats a terrible way to look for leadership. You give it to the person most capable of motivating and directing his teammates. How long had Yzerman been in the organization before he was given the "C"?


Yzerman was a blue-chip draft pick who was easily the best player on a bottom-feeder team. The organization (namely Ilitch, who had recently purchased the team) was looking for him to be the cornerstone of a new era in Hockeytown. That's why he got the 'C'.'

Z will be the new captain because he is a good leader, a good locker room presence, and the guy who has been groomed for the position for a long time. There was even talk of him taking over the captaincy after Yzerman retired.

The Wings and ALL their fans wanted these guys, Drake. You included.


What's your point? Drake is responding to centcougar's claim that the acquisition of Parise and Suter will catapult the Wild from a non-playoff team to a Cup contender. In reality, they make Minnesota's below-average offense and defense into an average offense and defense.

#165 mmamolo

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 07:40 PM

I agree, I'm sure Z will be the new captain. And thats the best possible guy on the roster in my opinion. And I do realize Captaincy doesnt really have anything to do with productivity on a stats basis, i simply used the term decline to suggest that they might like to have somone capable of leading the team who may be a staple here for a bit longer.

I just don't buy into the idea that Captaincy is a seniority thing. I think thats a terrible way to look for leadership. You give it to the person most capable of motivating and directing his teammates. How long had Yzerman been in the organization before he was given the "C"?

I was implying that captaincy was decided upon purely on seniority. Nor should it be. However, I think that the captaincy is given to those who deserve it. The way they end up deserving it is not only in their leadership abilities and characteristics but by being groomed within the organization (hence the seniority portion of the decision).

It's one thing when franchises are in tough spots or trying to rebuild and they give the captaincy to a young player with whom they intend to build around. But it is a completely different thing when a franchise filled with leaders turns around and hands it to a newly signed player (which almost never happens).
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#166 number9

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 08:53 PM

Ventured over to the Wild's fan site for a moment (the one that mister cougar belongs too) and found this lil snippet he posted in reference to signing ZP and RS......

"Certainly family played a roll" - centcougar07

But I thought you said that was false and we were lying to you cougs????


#167 centcougar07

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 09:21 PM

The Wings and ALL their fans wanted these guys, Drake. You included.


Trying to get through to these homers is like a one legged man trying to win an ass kicking contest. It's not going to happen. It's funny though, the hypocrisy
.

:lol: It's pretty hilarious that you don't even bother pretending to be a Wings fan anymore. I miss the good old days when you lied to our faces about your fandom and Left had to post links to your messages on Wild fanboards.

http://www.hockeypro...?articleid=1347

Your argument is now officially invalid.


Very good. You found one little known page written by one guy who may or may not know a damn thing about hockey.

Again, you use last season prospectus....find one for this year or better just go to the thread that has the link....or how about one from Hockeys Future.... http://www.hockeysfu...ngs-2011-2012/3 15 is higher than 17 bud. http://www.puckprosp...?articleid=1347 here's another 3 is higher than 4 BUD. Just keep holding on to outdated material and analysis... NEXT!

Uh...generic statements from those two at the presser, they would say the same thing anywhere they would've signed...NEXT!

So, the Finnish league is superior to the AHL...ok, sign up all NHL teams to change their minor league affiliates to the Finnish league...what are these NHL personnel thinking, associating with the worst league in the world....NEXT!

They chose Minny for family...they'd say the same generic rah rah in any other city....NEXT!

Wild on top of the NW division for the first half of the season, then they blew a wad....got hurt...whatever....just where was Detroit before they got a rash of injuries? Top of the NHL...NHL! Not division...NEXT!

Are we wondering what Holland is doing since he lost out on Suter? Hell yeah, and we hope he does some stuff! This I will agree with you on, he hasn't done much since the Suter-stakes, but he has been the best, so I will reserve judgement until we miss the playoffs...NEXT!

I wont say how much greater we are historically, lets just look at the last 12 season so we can be on even playing ground....oh, still greater, nevermind...NEXT!

Kronwall is just as good as Suter offensively and better in the hitting department...Kronwall can be a #1...Suter is better defensively, but its not like Kronwall stinks at it...NEXT!

Holland did speak to Schultz...again Detroit is not in Canada...Parise not worth that much money, Holland offered him what he is worth...I think the Wild may have gotten just as far with Schultz, thanks but we want to play in Canada...NEXT!

Parise also said he'd love to play with Pavel Datsyuk, as a matter of fact so would most of the league per the players poll last season...Koivu is good too, either way Parise would've got to play with a great centerman...NEXT!

I am sorry, I guess there are no MEN in the AHL...they are all little boys with no experience and Tatar is just a God amongst them... If you want to degrade Detroit's prospects based on just your opinion, then here is mine, Granfool has no business even putting skates on. There even I can just spout off at the mouth without researching facts...NEXT!

Anyhow, like I said, congrats on being a fan of the Wild and lucking out that those two have family there...you won the UFA sweeps, yippee! Now lets see them become a dynasty powerhouse and make the playoffs for the next 13 years...You can spout all you want, you just cannot get over the fact that if it weren't for FAMILY, Not Grandrool, Not Koivu, Not Heatley, Not Centcougar, FAMILY, if it weren't for FAMILY, Parise would be a Devil and Suter would be a Red Wing...from there mouths, quote unquote, proven to you over and over again....do us all a favor...accept it, enjoy it and know that if it weren't for FAMILY they'd be playing for LESS money elsewhere...Minnesota had to outbid NJ and Detroit as well... We accept the fact that they are Wild, you just accept the fact why they chose the Wild...GOODBYE!

I think you have been Gaped enough on these subjects, please stop before you ass starts to bleed...


Again, you use an article from the VERY SAME website I posted from (hockeysfuture) only the one you're trying pawn off as "old" is actually newer than the one YOU posted.

Here's yours: http://www.hockeysfu.../team-rankings/

As you can see at the top of the page, it is PRESEASON 2011-2012.

Here's mine: http://www.hockeysfu...ring-2012-1-10/

SPRING 2012 buddy. Last time I checked, that is later than fall 2011.

I like how you just ignore all arguments and then continue to post the same things over and over again. It's tiresome. I've read all your old opinions. You've yet to ACTUALLY discredit any of my arguments.

"Suter would have signed with the Wings if Zach didn't sign with Minnesota" Oh yeah? Where's the quote? Where's the source? Where is any shred of evidence other than you flapping your gums? It's annoying. If you're going to post like everything you say is absolute fact, then you should probably back it up with viable evidence.

In the end though, it's a moot point. Zach Parise and Ryan Suter will be lacing up at the X next season and not at the Joe. You didn't get them and now you're in a hole. If you think that you have a playoff caliber team right now then please, explain. If you want to keep posting about random things that you cannot support, have fun with that.

They would have said the same thing in another city? Maybe. But they are saying it in Minnesota, so I guess you'll never know. NEXT.

Oh the NHL teams should switch their development teams to Finnish pro teams? Yeah, that makes sense. That way when they need them it's just a quick flight to... Oh wait, it's not. The reason for the AHL being the minor league of the NHL is because of proximity. If teams need a guy, they can get him in a few hours. It's not because a league full of career AHL'ers and 19 year old kids is a super strong league.

Here's a little tidbit on how leagues around the world are ranked:

The NHL and IIHF both rank the various leagues in the world, and give them rankings. In both systems, the NHL is considered the best league and is scored as a "100"

NHL Central Scouting (as of February 1st)
National Hockey League 100
Elitsarien (Sweden) 89
Kontinental Hockey League (Russia) 87
SM-Liiga (Finland) 83
Czech Republic League (Czech Republic) 81
Slovakioan Extraliga (Slovakia) 74
Switzerland 72
Deutsche Eishockey League 70

The American Hockey League has a ranking of 57

The International Ice Hockey Federation's rankings (as of December 1, 2009)
National Hockey League 100
Elitsarien (Sweden) 91
Kontinental Hockey League (Russia) 87
Czech Republic League (Czech Republic) 84
SM-Liiga (Finland) 82
Slovakian Extraliga (Slovakia) 76
Switzerland 73
Deutsche Eishockey League 71

The IIHF ranks the AHL as a 61, and ranks the Czech league ahead of the Finnish league.

No AHL team has beaten a fully staffed NHL team since the 1960s, however several teams from all European leagues have beaten fully staffed NHL and AHL teams over the past 36 years.

Now, on to your other "topics". So, the Red Wings (an established franchise for quite some time now) is better than an expansion franchise the last 12 years? You don't say... Wow, you guys must be really good. That's impressive 0.o

Kronwall is as good as Suter? That explains how Suter outscored him the past 3 seasons WITHOUT Lidstrom on his team. Better at hitting and yet even Mikko Koivu was able to flatten him out. NEXT!

What's that? Holland spoke with Schultz? So did Fletcher. The difference is, Holland wasn't even allowed in to see Schultz while Fletcher was. Detroit is losing it's twinkle my friend. Oh Parise isn't worth that kind of money? Funny, on your "ideal roster" that used to be your sig.. You had both him AND Suter making $7.5AAV for the Wings. What are they making in Minnesota... $7.5AAV!!! NEXT

Datsyuk is Parise's favorite player? Parise admires the Wings organization? Oh, well then he should be playing there, right? Especially since Suter was "quoted" as saying he was going to sign in Detroit.

Yes. Tatar, a .72 PPG player is a god in the AHL. He's clearly knocking everyone right out of their socks with his immense talent. I already proved above that the AHL is not even in the same sentence as leagues like Elitsarian, the KHL or SM-Liiga... But I suppose you'll probably ignore that too.


Well at least I make actual arguments and present actual evidence, you?


I still don't understand how you think your prospects are better. Here's the link..again.. http://www.hockeysfu...pring-2012-1-10

2. Minnesota ...... 10. Detroit

That does not mean your prospects are better. 2. comes before 10 on the number line bud.

As for Tatar, again.. You just made the same argument but instead of using just last years numbers you used all 3 years. So.. 147points in 204 games = 147/204

So he's ACTUALLY a .72 PPG player.. My bad, I overestimated him. Granlund.. 3 years for IFK would be 127pts. in 119games so... 1.1PPG.. Still a point per game players in a league where he facing 26, 27 even 28 year old men. Some even older. Not to mention the league is defensive minded and yes, superior competition then the AHL. It's a professional league and has been called by many the 2nd or 3rd best league in the world behind the NHL. AHL isn't even top 5. If that's not enough for you, Granlund is also a more than a point per game player internationally. He's won 2 bronze medals as captain of the junior Finnish national team and a gold as the assistant captain on the Finnish World championship team, again... A MEN'S tournament. So no, I don't see how any of those prospects you have listed can even hold a candle to Granlund. Nyquist is the only one I would even let on the ice with Granlund.

Also, the only way your argument would hold water is if either of them were asked directly about the Wild's roster. They weren't. You clearly didn't even watch the press conference. They were asked "why Minnesota" basically. They said a few things. One was family as you already mentioned. They also mentioned that they think the Wild have the best prospects in the league. Parise actually said in an interview that he knows not all young players pan out but that he knows the importance of prospects. Fact of the matter is, they are the only way to build a successful team for the long term in the cap era. That's what the Wild have done and continue to do as they draft extremely well. They also mentioned that money had nothing to do with it because at a certain point, it doesn't matter how much you have you're going to be set for life. Both of them mentioned the chance to play together really interested them and the final reason they stated? The solid roster Minnesota already had. They both know where the Wild were through the 1st half of the year (on top of the NW Division). They volunteered their affection for the players already on the roster without being directly asked about it. Parise even said he would LOVE to play with Mikko Koivu because he thinks they play a similar game and that Mikko is one of the most underrated players in the league. Bottom line is Holland low balled them and didn't have enough appeal to even be in the final few teams for Parise. Again, they couldn't even get in to speak with Schultz while the Wild could. I won't even respond to the North Stars bit because you're obviously just trying to troll and I feel bad for you.

You can rest on your laurels all you want and say how much greater you are than a franchise that's 12 years old and pat yourself on the back for that.. But the fact remains that your two best players are past their primes, your best player and Captain just retired, your GM hasn't done anything to improve the franchise and your relying on Niklas Kronwall to apparently be your best defenseman.. Good luck with all that.

Ventured over to the Wild's fan site for a moment (the one that mister cougar belongs too) and found this lil snippet he posted in reference to signing ZP and RS......

"Certainly family played a roll" - centcougar07

But I thought you said that was false and we were lying to you cougs????


Nope, because I already admitted that it played a roll.

#168 Barrie

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 09:25 PM

I'm ok if we go into the season with this roster. I wouldn't mind rebuilding a bit and letting Smith, Nyquist, Brunner, and Kindl play instead of an over priced Free Agent.
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#169 Matt

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 09:51 PM

Trying to get through to these homers is like a one legged man trying to win an ass kicking contest. It's not going to happen. It's funny though, the hypocrisy


Enough. The line is drawn in the sand right here. Reply tactfully -- and to the topic at hand -- or find your stay here permanently shortened.

This also applies to all others dragging this thread though the mud.

#170 wingsfan4795

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 09:59 PM

Trying to get through to these homers is like a one legged man trying to win an ass kicking contest. It's not going to happen. It's funny though, the hypocrisy

If you are going to comment on another team's thread, be respectful.

Detroit was better than Minnesota last year. The evidence is in the standings.

As far as next year, that is yet to be seen. Minnesota could blow Detroit out of the water and have a great season. Or, it could be vise versa. We'll find out soon enough.

Again, if you want to comment here, feel free. Constructive hockey talk with fans from other teams is great. In my opinion, it makes the conversation better. But arguing is not constructive.

By all means stay here, but keep it respectful. The bickering back and forth is getting annoying.

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#171 wingsfan4795

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 10:13 PM

With that said, I agree that granlund is better than any wings forward prospects. I think Smith has the potential to be a bigger star than anyone in either organization. I don't know if that's bias, but that's my opinion.

Good rule of thumb is always take an octopus everywhere. Better to have one and not need it than find yourself thinking, "Damn, I wish I had that octopus".

 

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#172 Z Winged Dangler

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 10:24 PM

Trying to get through to these homers is like a one legged man trying to win an ass kicking contest. It's not going to happen. It's funny though, the hypocrisy


You're doing the exact same thing just with the Wild, and on a site called Lets Go Wings...and that's my last piece directed towards you.

At LeftWinger, clearly there's no more point in arguing with this child about the fact that the Wings aren't gonna suck next year. We'll just have bragging rights once the Wings finish ahead of the Wild in the standings. The future is fine in Motown. Remember the saying, everyday is a good day to win in Detroit! This entire thread is premature anyways seeing as we're less than 2 weeks in to free agency with lots of guys still waiting for a home. And some of us aren't as worried as others when you see prospects ready to go like Smith and Nyquist and signing a potential star in Brunner. Besides, Granloops may get Kronwalled the first time the Wild play the Wings and the kid may be dazed in the 5th row.

As far as i'm concerned, this is a tryout year for the Wings in which they will in all likely hood still make the playoffs. At the end of the day, Kenny may go into next summer with enough cash to lure Weber, Getzlaf and Iginla and that to me spells "Cup Favourite"

1 season does not make or break a track record for the best team in the past 20 years, it simply gives a GM the chance to re-tool to keep the team competitive after losing a legend and the best overall dman to ever play the game.

Edited by Z Winged Dangler, 10 July 2012 - 10:24 PM.

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#173 The Axe

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 11:03 PM

I don't know how anyone thinks the Wild aren't contenders now. They have a good team. I think they will be super exciting to watch next year. That power play is going to kick some butt. I can tell you that.

#174 number9

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 11:06 PM

I don't know how anyone thinks the Wild aren't contenders now. They have a good team. I think they will be super exciting to watch next year. That power play is going to kick some butt. I can tell you that.


centcougars 2nd profile????

Edited by number9, 10 July 2012 - 11:07 PM.


#175 The Axe

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 11:09 PM

No. I just agree with that argument. That's ok, isn't it? I don't think the Wings have gotten any better this off season. It's sad cuz there's no buzz to talk about around here. I'm not excited about Tootoo, Samuelsson, and a back-up goalie.

#176 number9

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 11:11 PM

No. I just agree with that argument. That's ok, isn't it? I don't think the Wings have gotten any better this off season. It's sad cuz there's no buzz to talk about around here. I'm not excited about Tootoo, Samuelsson, and a back-up goalie.


u forgot about brunner....brunner wrecks shop, buzzin hard on this guy

#177 The Axe

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 11:42 PM

If he makes the team

#178 Drake_Marcus

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 11:52 PM

Very good. You found one little known page written by one guy who may or may not know a damn thing about hockey.


I'm bestest buddies with a couble of NHL scouts who highly regard the author of the site in question. I'll email them to double check. BRB.

Edit:
Ok, I'm back now. Yeah man, both my buddies said that Prospectus is legit. I don't know where you heard bad things.

Edited by Drake_Marcus, 10 July 2012 - 11:52 PM.

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#179 Crymson

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Posted 11 July 2012 - 12:10 AM

Believe it or not, Centcougar, you're not going to convince Wings fans that the Wings suck, let alone that they're worse than the Wild.

#180 Bring Back The Bruise Bros

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Posted 11 July 2012 - 12:30 AM

Believe it or not, Centcougar, you're not going to convince Wings fans that the Wings suck, let alone that they're worse than the Wild.

You're not supposed to tell him, Crymson.

Its fun watching him make an ass out of himself.
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