118 replies to this topic

[Dabura]

Originally yes, but not anymore. Ana is now demanding basically the same as Nash maybe even worst.

Link?

I can't believe some of the packages people are willing to live with including Filppula. Great defensive forward, natural center but can produce near 70 pts at wing. Makes his own chances and improves his linemates. I have an idea: package him with two prospects and picks for similar production, less familiarity and guaranteed chemistry on/off ice, but more goal-scoring!

I don't understand why we would be so afraid of Semin who could easily outscore Ryan on Datsyuk's wing and cost us only cap-space (which we have a load of). Semin's attitude on a veteran team with character like the Wings is worse than losing a character guy in Filppula, plus picks and prospects? And for Nash we'll have to give up even more.

Ryan >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Semin

Edited by Dabura, 11 July 2012 - 10:37 AM.

[Z and D for the C]

Honestly it'd be hard to lose Filppula, but I think bringing in Ryan and losing him could still be an upgrade more than a lateral move.

It would be a slight upgrade offensively, but that's it. Worse defensively. I'd love to trade for Ryan, but if the only way is to give up Filppula, it's not worth it IMO. Our team would be WAY better if we found a way to trade for him without losing Filppula (or Franzen, for that matter). I want Holland to ADD peices into our top six, not replace them with players only marginally better at best.

[b.shanafan14]

Ryan >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Semin

Based on? Ryan > Semin. Ryan << Semin, Filppula, Mursak, Tatar, 2nd (one recent suggestion)

Edited by b.shanafan14, 11 July 2012 - 10:51 AM.

[wingfan1991]

make the trade kenny do what it takes to get him.. he's all that and more!

[SwedeLundin77]

It would be a slight upgrade offensively, but that's it. Worse defensively. I'd love to trade for Ryan, but if the only way is to give up Filppula, it's not worth it IMO. Our team would be WAY better if we found a way to trade for him without losing Filppula (or Franzen, for that matter). I want Holland to ADD peices into our top six, not replace them with players only marginally better at best.

I completely agree, and I cannot understand the obsession with Nash or Ryan, as far as what we'd have to give up. At this point, our REAL need is on defense, so we should be looking at adding a couple UFA's or trading for Yandle, Bouwmeester, or Boyle, etc..

I like our offensive options, we were tops in the league last season, offensively, and won't be that far behind this year. Of course, this depends on defensive offense as well (Kronwall, Quincey, White, and Smith all need to pull together and put up decent offensive numbers, which I fully believe they can and will).

Kronwall - 15 goals, 35 assists
Quincey - 6 goals, 33 assists
White - 5 goals, 23 assists
Smith - 9 goals, 34 assists

Edited by SwedeLundin77, 11 July 2012 - 10:55 AM.

[Z Winged Dangler]

It would be a slight upgrade offensively, but that's it. Worse defensively. I'd love to trade for Ryan, but if the only way is to give up Filppula, it's not worth it IMO. Our team would be WAY better if we found a way to trade for him without losing Filppula (or Franzen, for that matter). I want Holland to ADD peices into our top six, not replace them with players only marginally better at best.

And if we are giving up Flip, Tatar and a pick to a team that doesn't even want Ryan, which is an overpayment, i would want Smith-Pelley with Ryan. We discount Flip way too much around here. And the reason he was getting an avg of 40 pts per year is because he was generally 3rd line C. put him on Z's wing for a year and he gets 66 pts.....guy has game! I would trade Franzen and a pick for Ryan, but not Flip. In my eyes, he's more valuable than Ryan now and if anyone disagrees, look at the stats. Ryan's on a line with either of Getzlaf, Perry or Selanne too, so for those who say the Ducks are a bad team, they still have great scoring forwards there, they just have crappy D.

[Dabura]

Based on? Ryan > Semin. Ryan <<< Semin, Filppula, Mursak, Tatar, 2nd (one recent suggestion)

Semin can score. When he feels compelled to.
That's it.
He's lazy, underachieving, soft, plays weak-at-best D, etc.

Ryan is good for at least 30 goals, guaranteed (barring injury). He's a physical power-forward. He hits. He plays a good two-way game. He blocks shots. He's got great hands. He's 25.

Every other team in the NHL has the Wings' top-sixers figured out (or, at least, they know in theory what you need to do to shut them down). Box them out to the perimeter, rush and rattle them, take away their time and space, outmuscle them. We need a guy (or two) who's going to help fix that by giving our top-6 a new dimension (or two). Semin would be content to take shots from the perimeter, just like all our current "scorers." True, he's got a great shot, but I'd prefer a guy who'll bulldoze through the front door instead of slinging pebbles at the windows.

I like Flip. But I'm not sure why so many here would sooner sacrifice their first-born child to Satan than see Flip traded.

"Crosby, Malkin, and Eric Staal for Franzen - ok. But only if it's Franzen. If they're asking for Filppula - forget it. He is a wing for life. He has [glittertext]Alternate Captain Potential[/glittertext]."

I'm not trying to get down on the guy. It's just, Filppula + a couple prospects + a pick is absolutely worth it for Bobby Ryan (provided Smith isn't one of the prospects. Though even then I'd at least consider it.)

Edited by Dabura, 11 July 2012 - 11:22 AM.

[Seraph]

Just because we are on Nash's trade list, doesn't mean we are on Columbus' trade list. I'm skeptical that they'll want to do business with us and on whether Holland would be willing to put what it takes on the line to get him. He seems to trade for players with intangibles or those who meet a specific team need.

[RyanBarnes!]

The Bleacher report had an interesting take on a Nash vs Ryan trade I think. I found one thing quite odd though. It downplayed the fact that Ryan had much better line mates than Nash, something that I think would probably top the other arguments mentioned, except one maybe, and that is the high price a Nash trade would command given that Columbus is a division rival. On the other side, I'm not sure Ryan would be much cheaper when all is said and done. That is, If Ryan is available at all. There seems to be two sides to that story.

Put on a line with Datsyuk I think Nash would be a 50 goal scorer, but I'm not so sure Ryan's production would increase that much. In the end, I'd be just as happy -be it Nash or Ryan. .

[Dabura]

And who's to say we can't have Ryan and Semin? Does trading for Ryan rule us out for Semin?

[b.shanafan14]

Unlike Nash, Ryan has not been playing with scrubs. Perry-Getzlaf-Ryan has been one of the strongest lines in the league for the past few years.

[b.shanafan14]

And who's to say we can't have Ryan and Semin? Does trading for Ryan rule us out for Semin?

No, but it is apparently going to cost us more than fair trade (which would be Filppula +, not +++) and all word from the Wings camp is "not interested" on Semin. This isn't about "can't trade Filppula no matter what" like you suggested above, its about including him with too many other assets for a player who is in no way better than keeping Filppula and future players while adding Semin.

I say again: Ryan > Semin. Ryan > Filppula. Ryan << Semin, Filppula, prospects, picks. And IMO, Ryan < Filppula, Mursak, Tatar, 2nd.

[stevkrause]

I'm confused what you mean by sit out? If he's under contract he can't just sit out can he? Breach of contract which would do him absolutely no good at all. He can F the dog every game until they trade him but he can't just stay at home and eat pizza lol.

Does anyone else find is slightly alarming that this guy doesn't want to play in any Canadian cities because he doesn't want to be under the microscope? Look at his list of teams that he gave except for San Jose all the teams listed are huge hockey markets where he will be under the microscope just as much as he would be in a Canadian city.

Any player can most certainly stay home and eat pizza, this is a free country... now, they may get fined by the team and "suspended" without pay while they do so, but a holdout would be, by no means, something new to sports... it's much less prevalent in the NHL and it doesn't do a lot for a player in the terms of their reputation, but the option is always there and from the sounds of how upset Ryan is becomming with the way they've handled him, I wouldn't say it's impossible he would choose to do so... unlikely, yes, but not impossible...

Edited by stevkrause, 11 July 2012 - 11:30 AM.

[esteef]

...Every other team in the NHL has the Wings' top-sixers figured out (or, at least, they know in theory what you need to do to shut them down). Box them out to the perimeter, rush and rattle them, take away their time and space, outmuscle them. We need a guy (or two) who's going to help fix that by giving our top-6 a new dimension (or two). Semin would be content to take shots from the perimeter, just like all our current "scorers." True, he's got a great shot, but I'd prefer a guy who'll bulldoze through the front door instead of slinging pebbles at the windows.

Great point. Ryan will find a way to get to the middle, and he'll punch people in the face!

esteef

[stevkrause]

Great point. Ryan will find a way to get to the middle, and he'll punch people in the face!

esteef

Yea! And ride in on a steed, while slinging fire and stabbing people's faces with tridents! Yea!

YEA!!!

[esteef]

Yea! And ride in on a steed, while slinging fire and stabbing people's faces with tridents! Yea!

YEA!!!

Exactly! Wooooooooo!

esteef

[Dabura]

No, but it is apparently going to cost us more than fair trade (which would be Filppula +, not +++) and all word from the Wings camp is "not interested" on Semin. This isn't about "can't trade Filppula no matter what" like you suggested above, its about including him with too many other assets for a player who is in no way better than keeping Filppula and future players while adding Semin.

You're not playing fair. If we're going to include Semin, it's not Ryan Vs. Filppula + future players + Semin - it's Ryan potentially+ Semin Vs. Filppula + future players potentially+ Semin. The two Semins cancel, and what we're left with is Ryan Vs. Filppula + future players.

Players like Flip are rare. Players like Ryan are just as - if not more - rare. Filppula is sort of the prototypical 21st-Century Wing. Bobby Ryan is a 25-year-old power-forward, one of the premier forwards in the game today. He's got, what, something like five straight 30+-goal seasons under his belt - and he's only 25. We don't have anyone like him in our system. We're not going to draft someone like him. Here's opportunity knocking.

Again, I like Flip. So I'm honestly not trying to be just a plain old jerkoff when I ask: How many goals did he score against the Predators in our first-round exit? And is the answer not a wee bit troubling?

Edited by Dabura, 11 July 2012 - 12:11 PM.

[pucktividi]

Every other team in the NHL has the Wings' top-sixers figured out (or, at least, they know in theory what you need to do to shut them down).

And that is to pray that Datsyuk isn't 100% ready

[Wings10]

Wings are not going to trade for Nash, Ryan..and won't be signing Doan or Semin, the sooner you guys realize this the better you will be.

[hillbillywingsfan]

Wings are not going to trade for Nash, Ryan..and won't be signing Doan or Semin, the sooner you guys realize this the better you will be.

I really don't believe that at all. I think we will do one of those.