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#1 ShanahanMan

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Posted 12 July 2012 - 08:14 AM

Disappointing to say the least. Here's some highlights from a couple morning articles. Don't expect any new Red Wings anytime soon folks!

http://www.detroitne...207120392/1128/


“Once you make those decisions, you are out of the game for a decade, you know?” he said. “So, I don’t know if people think we’re going to have major announcements this year, next year and the year after. The league doesn’t work like that. I’m confident, at some point — and it might be next year or the year after — that the history, the tradition, the commitment of our ownership, the passion of our fans, is going to all add up to having an opportunity to bring a player of significance here.”



Basically, SOMEDAY we'll get a good player.....

Detroit Red Wings, your 2015 Stanley Cup Champions!!

http://www.mlive.com...holland_st.html

“I don’t think we need a whole bunch of guys,” Holland said at Wednesday’s Hockeytown Winter Classic press conference. “I think if we can get one more player, (we’ll be fine). First off, we’re done in goal. I think we’ve got lots of pieces of up front. Obviously, with the loss of (Brad) Stuart, the loss of (Nick) Lidstrom, we’re not as deep as we’ve been in the past in defense. Two players that are going to replace him that weren’t here (last year) are Brendan Smith and (Kyle) Quincey, so it’s not like we’ve lost two guys and don’t have any players.”



Yes Holland, you're right. It's not like we have any kind of scoring problem and desperately need a top 6 forward, despite the fact that we scored an average of 1.8 goals per game during the playoffs AND our own coach said we lost due to weakness in scoring potential for our 2nd and 3rd lines. Sure Holland, all is fine.

And yeah, saying Smith and Quincey will replace Lidstrom and Stuart, respectively, is in it's own level of idiocy alone.



Enjoy your summer folks.

Edited by ShanahanMan, 12 July 2012 - 08:17 AM.



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#2 Echolalia

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Posted 12 July 2012 - 08:29 AM

Look, Holland is being smart here. He tried his best to get both Parise and Suter, but in the end they wanted to be close to their families, which Michigan cannot provide. After those two, the free-agent pool drops off considerably. We have money and we have needs, but is it smart to utilize that money in a poor free agent market in attempt to fill your needs with average players, or would it be better to put a bandage on all the wounds for now and wait until next year when more high profile players will be free to sign wherever they like? Trades are always an option too, but when you need someone to replace Lidstrom, or some top-six sniper (in a dry free agent year no less), prices are going to be high. Holland admitted he wants at least another player before he's comfortable with the team, but it's goIng to be a bandage, not a permanent fix to our roster issues. This year can't provide us with a permanent fix. That's just the reality of it. Better luck next year.

Edited by Echolalia, 12 July 2012 - 08:30 AM.


#3 ShanahanMan

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Posted 12 July 2012 - 08:31 AM

Better luck next year.


That line has been on loop for the last 4 years.....


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#4 unsaddleddonald

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Posted 12 July 2012 - 08:39 AM

Holland admitted he wants at least another player before he's comfortable with the team, but it's goIng to be a bandage, not a permanent fix to our roster issues. This year can't provide us with a permanent fix. That's just the reality of it. Better luck next year.


Sorry, but conceding another hockey season (Babs didn't think his roster last year was going to be able to compete) won't fly in this town. Not signing one of the top 5 talents in the league because "we don't like what we hear about him" is ok if your team already has a sniper or two. Well, we don't.

I understand being smart with your money, but when you straight up DON'T SPEND money you have, you are more or less throwing it away. We had $5 million in cap space last year that we didn't spend. Essentially, the Detroit Red Wings cap sat $5 million lower than the NHL cap. That makes no sense to me....

#5 Wings4Life19

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Posted 12 July 2012 - 08:40 AM

In Holland I trust

#6 Johnz96

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Posted 12 July 2012 - 08:41 AM

That line has been on loop for the last 4 years.....

I think nobody has more wins (regular season or playoffs) in the last 4 years. If you expect to win a Cup every year you're going to be disappointed a lot and overspending would make it even more more difficult to win one than it already is

#7 SwedeLundin77

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Posted 12 July 2012 - 08:47 AM

Disappointing to say the least. Here's some highlights from a couple morning articles. Don't expect any new Red Wings anytime soon folks!

http://www.detroitne...207120392/1128/

[/left]


Basically, SOMEDAY we'll get a good player.....

Detroit Red Wings, your 2015 Stanley Cup Champions!!

http://www.mlive.com...holland_st.html

[/size][/font][/color][/left]


Yes Holland, you're right. It's not like we have any kind of scoring problem and desperately need a top 6 forward, despite the fact that we scored an average of 1.8 goals per game during the playoffs AND our own coach said we lost due to weakness in scoring potential for our 2nd and 3rd lines. Sure Holland, all is fine.

And yeah, saying Smith and Quincey will replace Lidstrom and Stuart, respectively, is in it's own level of idiocy alone.



Enjoy your summer folks.


Good God, that is not what he even said.... Stop twisting things to make it sound the way you want it to. He said they have guys that can fill in, so it's not like they are down to 4 defensemen.

"

Obviously, with the loss of (Brad) Stuart, the loss of (Nick) Lidstrom, we're not as deep as we've been in the past in defense. Two players that are going to replace him that weren't here (last year) are Brendan Smith and (Kyle) Quincey, so it's not like we've lost two guys and don't have any players."



Please don't just make everything fit your doom and gloom attitude...



Look, Holland is being smart here. He tried his best to get both Parise and Suter, but in the end they wanted to be close to their families, which Michigan cannot provide. After those two, the free-agent pool drops off considerably. We have money and we have needs, but is it smart to utilize that money in a poor free agent market in attempt to fill your needs with average players, or would it be better to put a bandage on all the wounds for now and wait until next year when more high profile players will be free to sign wherever they like? Trades are always an option too, but when you need someone to replace Lidstrom, or some top-six sniper (in a dry free agent year no less), prices are going to be high. Holland admitted he wants at least another player before he's comfortable with the team, but it's goIng to be a bandage, not a permanent fix to our roster issues. This year can't provide us with a permanent fix. That's just the reality of it. Better luck next year.


Oh thank you for some sane voices on LGW.... I swear the level of doom and gloom is off the charts. People are acting like the Wings are now Calgary or something.... not even close!

Sorry, but conceding another hockey season (Babs didn't think his roster last year was going to be able to compete) won't fly in this town. Not signing one of the top 5 talents in the league because "we don't like what we hear about him" is ok if your team already has a sniper or two. Well, we don't.

I understand being smart with your money, but when you straight up DON'T SPEND money you have, you are more or less throwing it away. We had $5 million in cap space last year that we didn't spend. Essentially, the Detroit Red Wings cap sat $5 million lower than the NHL cap. That makes no sense to me....


Yeah, risk bringing in a guy who has, by all accounts, a horrible attitude and questionable worth ethic. Risk that because it's not your money, so let's just go on a spending frenzy and grab all the average players we can. Holland is smart not to blow everything up by spending like a 16 year old girl the weekend before Prom. Get a grip people, the sky is not falling. The team, as is, will make the playoffs and will compete.

Remember when everyone wrote Datsyuk off as a non-playoff contributor? How did that turn out?

#8 RusDRW

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Posted 12 July 2012 - 08:49 AM

Well, it is tough to face the fact that we are not a contender.... I took it for granted for 19 years that I followed the Red Wings. Any advices?
Sweet. This dude was brought here for one reason, to punch people in the head - every other thing that he can do, other Wings can do better. I like that we have a head-puncher. The league has other, better head-punchers, but this one is ours. Better than nothing. Good work, Kenny!

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#9 RedWingsDad

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Posted 12 July 2012 - 08:52 AM

That line has been on loop for the last 4 years.....


And yet in the past four years we have made it to the finals, and never missed the playoffs. I believe Holland is thinking long term - by not overpaying in FA he is ensuring he can put a competitive playoff team on the ice year after year. As we seen with LA... adding a key piece at the end of the season (or any number of other factors) can propel a team to the cup... so long as they make the playoffs of course. Yandle / Ryan / Nash are likely too expensive in trade assets - and he's not going to give the farm. We know Holland has made an offer for Nash, and may have for Yandle and Ryan for all we know. Now sure what you want him to do right now, besides overpay in trade assets.

Edited by RedWingsDad, 12 July 2012 - 08:56 AM.

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#10 Echolalia

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Posted 12 July 2012 - 08:54 AM

Sorry, but conceding another hockey season (Babs didn't think his roster last year was going to be able to compete) won't fly in this town. Not signing one of the top 5 talents in the league because "we don't like what we hear about him" is ok if your team already has a sniper or two. Well, we don't.

I understand being smart with your money, but when you straight up DON'T SPEND money you have, you are more or less throwing it away. We had $5 million in cap space last year that we didn't spend. Essentially, the Detroit Red Wings cap sat $5 million lower than the NHL cap. That makes no sense to me....


Unfortunately there are other factors that come in to play when signing someone aside from cap space and need. Does the sniper in question want a long term contract? Does he even want to play in Detroit? I don't think it's worth the risk to sign Semin or some other questionable player if they're looking for a several year contract. We're in tough shape today, but imagine how bad we would be with two Franzen-types locked up for the next five years. Is that really the solution? If he wants to play here, and is willing to play for one year, awesome. But otherwise it becomes iffy, and frankly I'd rather sit on the money and use it next year when some legit top players without all the baggage are available.
The Wings are in a unique position to for once have a lot of money to work with, but there's only scraps and garbage available to buy.


#11 SwedeLundin77

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Posted 12 July 2012 - 08:57 AM

Well, it is tough to face the fact that we are not a contender.... I took it for granted for 19 years that I followed the Red Wings. Any advices?


You cannot say that anymore.... LA was an 8 seed last season and no one thought they'd make it anywhere... NJ was, what? a 6 seed? That was your Final this past season.... low seeded teams that no one would have ever predicted being there. We are a contender, plain and simple.

And yet in the past four years we have made it to the finals, and never missed the playoffs. I believe Holland is thinking long term - by not overpaying in FA he is ensuring he can put a competitive playoff team on the ice year after year. As we seen with LA... adding a key piece at the end of the season (or any number of other factors) can propel a team to the cup... so long as they make the playoffs of course. Yandle / Ryan / Nash are likely too expensive in trade assets - and he's not going to give the farm. We know Holland has made an offer for Nash, and may have for Yandle and Ryan for all we know. Now sure what you want him to do right now, besides overpay in trade assets.


Thank you sir, for your comments are sane and level-headed. It's nice to know that I am not alone.

#12 55fan

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Posted 12 July 2012 - 08:58 AM

Sorry, but conceding another hockey season (Babs didn't think his roster last year was going to be able to compete) won't fly in this town. Not signing one of the top 5 talents in the league because "we don't like what we hear about him" is ok if your team already has a sniper or two. Well, we don't.

I understand being smart with your money, but when you straight up DON'T SPEND money you have, you are more or less throwing it away. We had $5 million in cap space last year that we didn't spend. Essentially, the Detroit Red Wings cap sat $5 million lower than the NHL cap. That makes no sense to me....

I have to disagree. Not spending if you can't get your money's worth is a good thing.

I may have credit approved for $5000 but if I can get what I need for $3000, I'll do that and save the remainder.

Is Semin worth what he will eventually go for? Or is it a matter of waiting until he "goes on sale" due to lack of interest and ends up signing at a lower price? Or does he have problems that make him worth less than his asking price?

As far as dmen go, who is there that could replace Lidstrom? No one. We will have to settle for filling his place in the lineup. This won't happen with any free agents. We'll need to trade or wait a year and get someone better.

If anyone has a player who is that good, I have serious doubts that he will be on the trading block unless he's seriously overpaid, has health issues, or is a problem in the locker room.

We're taking a chance on Tootoo. I'm not sure it woud be wise to bring in Semin and a dman who may have issues as well.

We may add another forward, but I don't see us getting a big-name dman this season. The trade price would be seriously high. If they are trading a dman, they will want serious assets at the forward position, and we're all up in arms about how we need more snipers and have a pelthora of muckers and grinders. Any trade partner with a seriously good dman to trade will not be looking at dime-a-dozen grinders for a trade. At best we'll get a moderate dman for a couple of good forwards, and still need to improve in each category.

I'm not saying that this is the end of the road, I'm just saying it's not the Yellow Brick one.

#13 Dabura

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Posted 12 July 2012 - 09:01 AM

Why wouldn't he be content? We got our top-6 goal-scoring machine and our top-4 rock. We're solid and set re: secondary scoring. Our bottom-6 looks to be much bigger, tougher, younger, faster - altogether much harder to play against.

:turn:

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#14 ShanahanMan

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Posted 12 July 2012 - 09:02 AM

Good God, that is not what he even said.... Stop twisting things to make it sound the way you want it to. He said they have guys that can fill in, so it's not like they are down to 4 defensemen.


Uh, no, that's not what he said. He never said "fill", he specifically said "replace", as in these guys will replace Stuart and Lidstrom. Not sure how you can read it any other way...

Yeah, risk bringing in a guy who has, by all accounts, a horrible attitude and questionable worth ethic. Risk that because it's not your money, so let's just go on a spending frenzy and grab all the average players we can. Holland is smart not to blow everything up by spending like a 16 year old girl the weekend before Prom. Get a grip people, the sky is not falling. The team, as is, will make the playoffs and will compete.

Remember when everyone wrote Datsyuk off as a non-playoff contributor? How did that turn out?



How exactly are we risking our money if it's not being allocated to anything else...? If it's essentially, just sitting there? Don't risk some money on a previous 40 goal scorer for a team in need of scoring depth? Just don't understand your argument...

And then you say we WILL make the playoffs and WILL compete? You come to that consensus based on......what exactly? Do you not realize this is now a team MUCH weaker than the one that was first to get eliminated and won a single game last playoffs? And yet, somehow, you think with a weaker roster we'll somehow do.....better?


Am i missing something here? I just dont understand the logic!

Edited by ShanahanMan, 12 July 2012 - 09:04 AM.



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#15 Johnz96

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Posted 12 July 2012 - 09:02 AM

I have to disagree. Not spending if you can't get your money's worth is a good thing.

I may have credit approved for $5000 but if I can get what I need for $3000, I'll do that and save the remainder.

Is Semin worth what he will eventually go for? Or is it a matter of waiting until he "goes on sale" due to lack of interest and ends up signing at a lower price? Or does he have problems that make him worth less than his asking price?

As far as dmen go, who is there that could replace Lidstrom? No one. We will have to settle for filling his place in the lineup. This won't happen with any free agents. We'll need to trade or wait a year and get someone better.

If anyone has a player who is that good, I have serious doubts that he will be on the trading block unless he's seriously overpaid, has health issues, or is a problem in the locker room.

We're taking a chance on Tootoo. I'm not sure it woud be wise to bring in Semin and a dman who may have issues as well.

We may add another forward, but I don't see us getting a big-name dman this season. The trade price would be seriously high. If they are trading a dman, they will want serious assets at the forward position, and we're all up in arms about how we need more snipers and have a pelthora of muckers and grinders. Any trade partner with a seriously good dman to trade will not be looking at dime-a-dozen grinders for a trade. At best we'll get a moderate dman for a couple of good forwards, and still need to improve in each category.

I'm not saying that this is the end of the road, I'm just saying it's not the Yellow Brick one.

Or someone like Nash who doesn't want to be there anymore although he is overpayed

#16 RedWingsDad

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Posted 12 July 2012 - 09:10 AM

Uh, no, that's not what he said. He never said "fill", he specifically said "replace", as in these guys will replace Stuart and Lidstrom. Not sure how you can read it any other way...




How exactly are we risking our money if it's not being allocated to anything else...? If it's essentially, just sitting there? Don't risk some money on a previous 40 goal scorer for a team in need of scoring depth? Just don't understand your argument...

And then you say we WILL make the playoffs and WILL compete? You come to that consensus based on......what exactly? Do you not realize this is now a team MUCH weaker than the one that was first to get eliminated and won a single game last playoffs? And yet, somehow, you think with a weaker roster we'll somehow do.....better?


Am i missing something here? I just dont understand the logic!


Please tell us what you want to happen that Holland isn't doing. Sign Semin? OK... how much should we offer and what's the term? Besides, Holland may have offered Semin a contract... nobody knows. Semin will not likely sign a one year deal. Would you rather have Semin now or Getzlaf / Weber next year? In other words, if we sign Semin to a lets say 6.5 million contract... where does the cap space come from next FA to sign Weber? Please break the numbers down for me. ;)
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#17 Johnz96

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Posted 12 July 2012 - 09:13 AM

Uh, no, that's not what he said. He never said "fill", he specifically said "replace", as in these guys will replace Stuart and Lidstrom. Not sure how you can read it any other way...




How exactly are we risking our money if it's not being allocated to anything else...? If it's essentially, just sitting there? Don't risk some money on a previous 40 goal scorer for a team in need of scoring depth? Just don't understand your argument...

And then you say we WILL make the playoffs and WILL compete? You come to that consensus based on......what exactly? Do you not realize this is now a team MUCH weaker than the one that was first to get eliminated and won a single game last season? And yet, somehow, you think with a weaker roster we'll somehow do.....better?


Am i missing something here? I just dont understand the logic!

By having cap space we have the freedom to make moves if they are the right ones and it will give the brass an opportunity to evaluate some of the young guys.
There are a lot of big physical skilled players that should be UFAs next year, some of them will be traded during the season.
Say we do sign Semin and he is inconsistent and doesn't put forth the effort demanded of him defensively and he becomes a pariah in the dressing room (all things he is accused of being capable of) and Iginla (who suit our needs much more precisely and probably won't stay in Calgary if they don't make the playoffs which they probably won't), Weber or somebody more desirable than Semin become available we won't have the cap space to get them. Even if we don't get someone during the season we will have cap space to get one of big physical skilled guys in next year's bumper crop of UFAs but we will have had a good look at some of younger guys (for evaluation) and they will have gained valuable experience

Please tell us what you want to happen that Holland isn't doing. Sign Semin? OK... how much should we offer and what's the term? Besides, Holland may have offered Semin a contract... nobody knows. Semin will not likely sign a one year deal. Would you rather have Semin now or Getzlaf / Weber next year? In other words, if we sign Semin to a lets say 6.5 million contract... where does the cap space come from next FA to sign Weber? Please break the numbers down for me. ;)

And we will have to re-sign Howard and Fil next year

#18 Din758

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Posted 12 July 2012 - 09:15 AM

Is it possible his comments are just posturing the team in potential FA signings or trades? Making us look like were not desperate so that a FA that already wants to come to DET cant play the "you need me" card to get paid more?

I think you guys are tripping out way too much, theres still plenty of time to find our player to help us this year. As for next year, were going to have to make another run at a #1 d-man which we will be able to as we'll have at least 1 d-spot available (Quincey UFA).

Edited by Din758, 12 July 2012 - 09:17 AM.

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#19 SwedeLundin77

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Posted 12 July 2012 - 09:16 AM

Uh, no, that's not what he said. He never said "fill", he specifically said "replace", as in these guys will replace Stuart and Lidstrom. Not sure how you can read it any other way...




How exactly are we risking our money if it's not being allocated to anything else...? If it's essentially, just sitting there? Don't risk some money on a previous 40 goal scorer for a team in need of scoring depth? Just don't understand your argument...

And then you say we WILL make the playoffs and WILL compete? You come to that consensus based on......what exactly? Do you not realize this is now a team MUCH weaker than the one that was first to get eliminated and won a single game last season? And yet, somehow, you think with a weaker roster we'll somehow do.....better?


Am i missing something here? I just dont understand the logic!


Seriously.... I even posted the quote. How is it that you are the ONLY one reading it that way then? Is it because you are being over-critical, possibly even negative about an off-season when it's only July 12 and there are zero quality UFA's to be had, aside from Semin and Doan (and they want Doan).

There is no way to replace Lidstrom.... and losing him is how we got weaker. Our offense is stronger than last season, and deeper. We may not have acquired a sniper, but Brunner may turn out, I'm willing to wait and see before I write him off like so many doom and gloomers around here. Our defense is younger, much younger. Which I believe is a good thing, because they're hungry, and motivated and want to win. Only Kronwall has tasted the cup and he's their leader as of right now. Seems pretty good to me. I never said they're stronger than last season, but they are younger overall, and with so many negative people out there, maybe it's a good motivation to show fans that they can do well and compete.

They will spend more cap on defensive needs, possibly a forward like Semin or Doan if they can come to an agreement, but to just burn our money by grabbing average players that don't add anything to the team is asinine. It's also asinine to assume we know what is really going on behind the curtain.

You don't burn cap because the trade deadline could come in handy for the Wings this season, and trading for a big name player who makes more money means you had better have a little cap space, if the opportunity presents itself. Also saving that cap space could be fruitful come next off-season, when Perry, Getzlaf, Iginla, etc... could all be available.

#20 Doc Holliday

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Posted 12 July 2012 - 09:26 AM

ShanahanMan is right. Holland should instead talk about how the team is horrible and that they won't be able to compete for anything.

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