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#261 joshy207

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Posted 15 July 2012 - 05:52 PM

Finally: There WILL NOT be another lockout, both sides know that it will kill the NHL if they have another lock out so soon. Both sides will go in with big demands, but count on the new CBA to look a lot like the current one with some of the loophole closed. If the cap goes down, expect all contracts to be adjusted accordingly, there will not be a gush of talent on the market after the new CBA.


I think the owners are fully prepared to do what the NBA did, and lock the players out for the first 2-3 months of the season if they need to. I think their first CBA proposal was over the top, but it's just that, a first proposal. Ideally the new CBA shouldn't be a whole lot different than the current one, a few tweaks here and there and a slight reduction of the players' share of the revenue, and boom, it's back to the ice. But the owners will hold out until they get their way, or at least as close to it as they feel they can get. The players should "win" this one, but I don't know how they really can.... it could get ugly.

#262 Johnz96

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Posted 15 July 2012 - 06:19 PM

I think the owners are fully prepared to do what the NBA did, and lock the players out for the first 2-3 months of the season if they need to. I think their first CBA proposal was over the top, but it's just that, a first proposal. Ideally the new CBA shouldn't be a whole lot different than the current one, a few tweaks here and there and a slight reduction of the players' share of the revenue, and boom, it's back to the ice. But the owners will hold out until they get their way, or at least as close to it as they feel they can get. The players should "win" this one, but I don't know how they really can.... it could get ugly.

The players shouldn't cave in there are a lot of leagues they can play in. f*** Bettman he is the worst thing that ever happened to the game of hockey

Edited by Johnz96, 15 July 2012 - 06:27 PM.


#263 pucktividi

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Posted 15 July 2012 - 06:20 PM


My biggest issue with "keeping homegrown talent" is that, despite obvious shortcomings in some postseasons, the same players are kept around year after year after year. Holland has said (and I don't know where to find the quote, so I'll paraphrase) that he "doesn't believe in trading away assets. Once you get them, you hang on to them." Well, sometimes those assets underachieve when they're being counted on the most.


Agree,4 years ago,our top 4 d-men were awesome+we had E,Kindl and Smith waiting for a chance and the future looked very bright so can't blame Ken for doing "nothing" these days,but at the moment it became obvious that both E and Kindl kinda underachieved and with a threat of Nick's and Raffi's retirement,Ken should have take a risk to get another #1/2 d-man somehow.

Yes,Smith looks great,but no one can convince me there isn't a possibility he'll underachieve,because everyone expects from him to step up big time.

#264 Shaman

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Posted 15 July 2012 - 06:28 PM

I think the owners are fully prepared to do what the NBA did, and lock the players out for the first 2-3 months of the season if they need to. I think their first CBA proposal was over the top, but it's just that, a first proposal. Ideally the new CBA shouldn't be a whole lot different than the current one, a few tweaks here and there and a slight reduction of the players' share of the revenue, and boom, it's back to the ice. But the owners will hold out until they get their way, or at least as close to it as they feel they can get. The players should "win" this one, but I don't know how they really can.... it could get ugly.


I still don't see that, the owners are businessmen and they know that they lost a lot of good will with the fans the last lockout, another lockout they may as well trade their NHL teams for WNBA teams.
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#265 BuckeyeWingsfan80

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Posted 16 July 2012 - 03:49 AM

I still don't see that, the owners are businessmen and they know that they lost a lot of good will with the fans the last lockout, another lockout they may as well trade their NHL teams for WNBA teams.


Never underestimate the collective stupidity of a group of people who have money to burn.
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#266 Zberg40

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Posted 16 July 2012 - 08:29 AM

I'm very comfortable with this lineup if these things happen. I say hold fast (Try for Doan though) and make a deadline deal for D help if needed.

1 Howard continues turning into an elite goalie
2 Babcock was right about Brunnstrom
3 Kronwall steps it up even more.
4 Bertuzzi and Frazen have stellar years
5 Smith works his way into the top 4
6 Nyquist needs to bulk up and perform
7 Helm needs to stay 100%

Lot of big IFs, but we know Datsyuk and Zetterbeg will step up to the plate. Defence seems thin, but I'm excited to see who will emerge this year.

#267 haroldsnepsts

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Posted 16 July 2012 - 10:34 AM

I'm very comfortable with this lineup if these things happen. I say hold fast (Try for Doan though) and make a deadline deal for D help if needed.

1 Howard continues turning into an elite goalie
2 Babcock was right about Brunnstrom
3 Kronwall steps it up even more.
4 Bertuzzi and Frazen have stellar years
5 Smith works his way into the top 4
6 Nyquist needs to bulk up and perform
7 Helm needs to stay 100%

Lot of big IFs, but we know Datsyuk and Zetterbeg will step up to the plate. Defence seems thin, but I'm excited to see who will emerge this year.

I'd add Kindl stepping up in a big way to that list.

He has yet to show consistently that he can be an NHL defenseman, and right now the Wings only have six signed so they'd need him to play well all season long on the bottom pairing, or at least until the trade deadline. That defense also needs to stay healthy all season long too. I don't know who they'd call up from Grand Rapids now with Janik gone. It's why I'd expect Holland to pick up a veteran 6/7 guy for cheap before the season starts.

#268 RedWingsDad

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Posted 16 July 2012 - 10:45 AM

I still don't see that, the owners are businessmen and they know that they lost a lot of good will with the fans the last lockout, another lockout they may as well trade their NHL teams for WNBA teams.


Bettman knows this and is rolling the dice that the players will give in to his ludicrous demands (or atleast part of them). So it's basically a game of chicken... maybe neither side will blink and we end up with a lockout. Bettman strikes me as the kind of person that would go to lockout to prove his point and/or get his way... I mean look at the Yote's... give it up already, amirite?

Edited by RedWingsDad, 16 July 2012 - 10:55 AM.

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#269 ogreslayer

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Posted 16 July 2012 - 10:48 AM

I'm very comfortable with this lineup if these things happen. I say hold fast (Try for Doan though) and make a deadline deal for D help if needed.

1 Howard continues turning into an elite goalie
2 Babcock was right about Brunnstrom
3 Kronwall steps it up even more.
4 Bertuzzi and Frazen have stellar years
5 Smith works his way into the top 4
6 Nyquist needs to bulk up and perform
7 Helm needs to stay 100%

Lot of big IFs, but we know Datsyuk and Zetterbeg will step up to the plate. Defence seems thin, but I'm excited to see who will emerge this year.


I assume you mean Brunner, not Brunnstrom. I think the ship has already sailed on Fabian.

#270 LeftWinger

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Posted 16 July 2012 - 11:05 AM

So is it correct that I am hearing that the owners want a Cap on salries and to do away with long contracts? All the while its the owners that are overpaying these players AND giving them 13 year contracts? So if those are two of the issues, what part is the players fault?

Reminds me of UAW bitching about paying workers so much to be on unemployment, yet the companies are the ones who agreed to those terms...

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#271 RedWingsDad

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Posted 16 July 2012 - 11:56 AM

So is it correct that I am hearing that the owners want a Cap on salries and to do away with long contracts? All the while its the owners that are overpaying these players AND giving them 13 year contracts? So if those are two of the issues, what part is the players fault?

Reminds me of UAW bitching about paying workers so much to be on unemployment, yet the companies are the ones who agreed to those terms...


"yet the companies are the ones who agreed [Read: were coerced] to those terms..." But I digress...
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#272 Wings_Toledo

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Posted 16 July 2012 - 12:08 PM

First, Quick was good, but without that trade they wouldn't have made the playoffs.

Second, Nashville got beat because of their lack of experience in the post season, Phoenix were veterans compared to them, and they played like it.

Finally: There WILL NOT be another lockout, both sides know that it will kill the NHL if they have another lock out so soon. Both sides will go in with big demands, but count on the new CBA to look a lot like the current one with some of the loophole closed. If the cap goes down, expect all contracts to be adjusted accordingly, there will not be a gush of talent on the market after the new CBA.


In reality, no one knows what will happen. We can't say for certain that there will or won't be a lockout. Only the owners and players can decide what happens in the next few months. Would a lockout be a terrible thing for the league? Yes. Is it still possible that it could happen? Yes.

Either way, those other teams made major trades and they worked out well for one team, not so well for another. That's not to say that making a major trade at the deadline would have helped the Wings. Every team is different and I'm comfortable with the situation that Holland is in at the moment.

Edited by Wings_Toledo, 16 July 2012 - 12:09 PM.


#273 Hatethedrake!

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Posted 16 July 2012 - 01:48 PM

I think both sides will come to a deal most likely in the middle of September. Gary has made his ridiculous offer. Soon, Fehr will make his ridiculous offer. Then the negotiations will become real. Both sides will give a little and a deal will be struck. Both sides know this league cannot survive another lockout.
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#274 kipwinger

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Posted 16 July 2012 - 04:44 PM

Players strike when they've got nothing to lose, owners strike when they've got everything to gain. Neither is the case this year. I'm predicting a new CBA with relatively few holdups, though it will probably carry on for while so that both sides can posture a little bit for next time.

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#275 Dabura

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Posted 16 July 2012 - 05:37 PM

Capgeek is so depressing now.

Don't Toews me, bro!


#276 Drake_Marcus

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Posted 16 July 2012 - 09:09 PM

"yet the companies are the ones who agreed [Read: were coerced] to those terms..." But I digress...


The companies weren't helpless people held at knifepoint. They made financial choices based on certain projections and those projections didn't prove out. There's nothing more comical than the falicy that big corporations are somehow powerless or victims of anything but their own greed.
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#277 Drake_Marcus

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Posted 16 July 2012 - 09:52 PM

Players strike when they've got nothing to lose, owners strike when they've got everything to gain. Neither is the case this year. I'm predicting a new CBA with relatively few holdups, though it will probably carry on for while so that both sides can posture a little bit for next time.


Agreed. The big issues I'm guessing will be address are:

1) Lowering the current cap ceiling and floor
2) Addressing the burying of players in the minors or loaning them overseas to effectively circumvent the cap (this is something I imagine the NHLPA isn't happy about)
3) Changes to the way the cap ceiling/floor is calculated from year to year
4) Changes to the way contracts can be structured with respect to the tack-on 1mil years gms like to stick to the end of deals to bring the hit down. One solution could be to simply make the contracts count against the cap if players retire over 35 no matter when they signed the contract.
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#278 RedWingsDad

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Posted 16 July 2012 - 10:49 PM

The companies weren't helpless people held at knifepoint. They made financial choices based on certain projections and those projections didn't prove out. There's nothing more comical than the falicy that big corporations are somehow powerless or victims of anything but their own greed.


You just made quite a few fallacies of assumption.

Thanks God Mike Illitch was greedy enough to buy the Red Wings and invest money in them (to make even more money in return - go Mike!) so that I could enjoy this great team for the last 15+ years. I love that greedy corporate bastard! <3
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#279 Johnz96

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Posted 17 July 2012 - 01:56 AM

You just made quite a few fallacies of assumption.

Thanks God Mike Illitch was greedy enough to buy the Red Wings and invest money in them (to make even more money in return - go Mike!) so that I could enjoy this great team for the last 15+ years. I love that greedy corporate bastard! <3


Illitch didn't mind losing money to win
You can't compare other NHL owners to Illitch.

Edited by Johnz96, 17 July 2012 - 01:57 AM.


#280 Bring Back The Bruise Bros

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Posted 17 July 2012 - 02:06 AM

The companies weren't helpless people held at knifepoint. They made financial choices based on certain projections and those projections didn't prove out. There's nothing more comical than the falicy that big corporations are somehow powerless or victims of anything but their own greed.

Did we just become best friends?
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