Jump to content


Photo
* * * - - 7 votes

Holland Content with Current Roster


  • Please log in to reply
324 replies to this topic

#21 VM1138

VM1138

    Legend

  • Moderator
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,518 posts
  • Location:Michigan

Posted 12 July 2012 - 09:26 AM

"One day, we might be able to bring a player of significance here."

Erm...we have 16 million in cap space. We're a legendary team. We should be able to bring a player of significance here this summer, not in the distant future.

I really wish he wouldn't say he's content with our roster up front. Yeah, it's servicable, no worse than last year, but last year wasn't good enough. I guess I can see him waiting to see if Brunner will make an impact, but that's risky.

But he seems to forget that Quincey did play last year. So we've only added Smith, a rookie, to replace Stuart and Lidstrom.
Check out my short e-book on the Red Wings' 1937 Stanley Cup championship entitled: "Nothing Could Keep 'Em Down." Please download it from my profile at Smashwords: https://www.smashwor...ile/view/victor

New e-book: The Spanish-American War: A Brief History. Relatively short, introductory read for casual history buffs and people who want to learn more about a forgotten war that changed America. Available at BN.com, Smashwords, Kobo, and Diesel E-Books right now. Same link as above.

#22 jroc86

jroc86

    Rookie

  • Member
  • Pip
  • 187 posts

Posted 12 July 2012 - 09:28 AM

Lets give it a rest with the Holland bashing ... he went all in on Parise and Suter. Parise got 3 more points than Filp last year and and now a cap hit of 7.5 mill for the rest of his career. And Ryan Suter despite being a very good player is a somewhat unproven commodity without the leagues biggest/best dman beside him.

Trades dont happen overnight. Theres a plan in place and this "rebuild on the fly" might not come full circle until next off season. Do you think other GMs really want to help out the NHL Gold-standard Red Wings that much to keep our winning tradition alive? Hell no.

#23 Ram

Ram

    Goose

  • Bronze Booster
  • 757 posts
  • Location:Midtown

Posted 12 July 2012 - 09:29 AM

I mean, I completely understand that the fanbase can be discontent with the way this offseason has gone and the fact that the DRW are simply not as reliable as they used to be being a locked elite team.

But come on now, that's the way the NHL has gone since the lockout, and frankly, that's sports in general. I have to agree with the old bit that we are spoiled as DRW fans these past two decades. With salary caps, long term contracts, and the sport even changing in itself, it's just extremely difficult to keep a first place team on the ice year after year. I am just as unhappy to say this is the roster the squad has moving forward, but it is what it is. We're talking about Kenny Holland and the Detroit Red Wings here. He's not going to just pull the trigger on some drawn up deal that took a few minutes to think up. He is going to do what is best for the organization in the long run and do what he can in the short run. He has proven that. He has fudged up as of late, sure. But the cards are stacked against you right now. You can't win them all.

Parody has taught us you don't need a dream team to win in all. The Wings aren't set up to win the President's Trophy next year. They will roll with what they got and if they have a terrible year, so be it. Maybe a wake call and finishing 12th in the Conference will be a wake up call to everyone in this town to cherish what we have had these past twenty years.

Cheers. LGW

"Hey @Datsyuk13 really bro? On my bday...cmonnnn.. Someone fix that ice in the corner.." - @logancouture


#24 dat's sick

dat's sick

    Fear can hold you prisoner, hope can set you free

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,335 posts
  • Location:Sweden

Posted 12 July 2012 - 09:30 AM

I do like that he doesn't want to handcuff the team for years to come by for example signing a mediocre player like Carle to a long, overpaid contract. Our young guys could step up enough to atleast take us to the playoffs, and if not atleast they've gotten icetime and development.

For the life of me I still can't understand it if he doesn't atleast offer Semin a big 1-year contract. Gonne be a lot of unused cap space this year..

#25 SwedeLundin77

SwedeLundin77

    Over the Line!!!

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,876 posts

Posted 12 July 2012 - 09:33 AM

"One day, we might be able to bring a player of significance here."

Erm...we have 16 million in cap space. We're a legendary team. We should be able to bring a player of significance here this summer, not in the distant future.

I really wish he wouldn't say he's content with our roster up front. Yeah, it's servicable, no worse than last year, but last year wasn't good enough. I guess I can see him waiting to see if Brunner will make an impact, but that's risky.

But he seems to forget that Quincey did play last year. So we've only added Smith, a rookie, to replace Stuart and Lidstrom.


Who is your player of significance? Semin and Doan are the only two big names left and it seems like Detroit is not the only team wary of Semin's questionable work ethic and moodiness, otherwise he would have been signed by now by someone. We are looking at Doan and his agent has said that he would be interested if the Phoenix situation is unresolved come July 16...

What is he supposed to say? "We don't like our roster up-front." No, you don't say that as a GM. He added some pieces, replaced Hudler, and gave us some bottom 6 depth. We have too many forwards so there may be a trade upcoming for defense, but we'll see. He's not done yet and there is a long way to go before the season starts.

#26 stevkrause

stevkrause

    Legend

  • Bronze Booster
  • 5,236 posts
  • Location:Detroit, MI

Posted 12 July 2012 - 09:33 AM

Look, Holland is being smart here. He tried his best to get both Parise and Suter, but in the end they wanted to be close to their families, which Michigan cannot provide. After those two, the free-agent pool drops off considerably. We have money and we have needs, but is it smart to utilize that money in a poor free agent market in attempt to fill your needs with average players, or would it be better to put a bandage on all the wounds for now and wait until next year when more high profile players will be free to sign wherever they like? Trades are always an option too, but when you need someone to replace Lidstrom, or some top-six sniper (in a dry free agent year no less), prices are going to be high. Holland admitted he wants at least another player before he's comfortable with the team, but it's goIng to be a bandage, not a permanent fix to our roster issues. This year can't provide us with a permanent fix. That's just the reality of it. Better luck next year.

exactly. :clap:

All I have to say about Holland and our off-season:

Here in this thread

Here in this one as well

Here in this one too

and finally

Here


Holland is a damn good GM. period.


#27 Johnz96

Johnz96

    1st Line All-Star

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,423 posts

Posted 12 July 2012 - 09:37 AM

I mean, I completely understand that the fanbase can be discontent with the way this offseason has gone and the fact that the DRW are simply not as reliable as they used to be being a locked elite team.

But come on now, that's the way the NHL has gone since the lockout, and frankly, that's sports in general. I have to agree with the old bit that we are spoiled as DRW fans these past two decades. With salary caps, long term contracts, and the sport even changing in itself, it's just extremely difficult to keep a first place team on the ice year after year. I am just as unhappy to say this is the roster the squad has moving forward, but it is what it is. We're talking about Kenny Holland and the Detroit Red Wings here. He's not going to just pull the trigger on some drawn up deal that took a few minutes to think up. He is going to do what is best for the organization in the long run and do what he can in the short run. He has proven that. He has fudged up as of late, sure. But the cards are stacked against you right now. You can't win them all.

Parody has taught us you don't need a dream team to win in all. The Wings aren't set up to win the President's Trophy next year. They will roll with what they got and if they have a terrible year, so be it. Maybe a wake call and finishing 12th in the Conference will be a wake up call to everyone in this town to cherish what we have had these past twenty years.

Cheers. LGW

Bettman's parody lol
He has really screwed around with the game to make it hard for any team to dominate but I think saving the cap space for the right moves will enable us to continue to dominate for a long time and until we make those moves we can assess what we got with the younger guys and give them an opportunity to develop. Hopefully those right moves will present themselves during the season. I don't think even the most optimistic Kings' fans thought they had a good chance at the Cup at the beginning of the season

Edited by Johnz96, 12 July 2012 - 09:46 AM.


#28 wingslogo19

wingslogo19

    Legend

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,234 posts
  • Location:Victoria BC Canada

Posted 12 July 2012 - 09:38 AM

Holland can't replace Lidstrom that was never going to happen. Missing out on Sutter and parise because they wanted to be close to there family, well you can't blame Holland on that one. Holland tried to get both of them here and missed out nothing you can do.
IPB Image

#29 Johnz96

Johnz96

    1st Line All-Star

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,423 posts

Posted 12 July 2012 - 09:40 AM

ShanahanMan is right. Holland should instead talk about how the team is horrible and that they won't be able to compete for anything.

I like this reply but I am all out of likes lol

#30 stevkrause

stevkrause

    Legend

  • Bronze Booster
  • 5,236 posts
  • Location:Detroit, MI

Posted 12 July 2012 - 09:41 AM

That line has been on loop for the last 4 years.....

4 years? like the year we landed Hossa and went to the SCF, to lose in 7, when in a pivotal game 6, the Pens got to play with 6 men on the ice for 30 seconds with no penalty, which resulted in a goal that tied the game, that they then went on to win? That 4 years ago? Or how about the following year where we were capped out and didn't have space, Hudler held us hostage and we had to re-sign, oh, like half our team at once? How about that one?

It's only been 2 off-seasons that haven't gone ideal and the FA market in both sucked, name ONE player that we missed out on that would have had an impact in either, that we ever had a chance on? You could argue there were ZERO of those players last year and this year, it was Parise and Sutter or bust, both of which we never even had a chance... any other contract would have been piss-poor and a reach...

but, once again, let's not let facts get in the way...

Edited by stevkrause, 12 July 2012 - 09:43 AM.

All I have to say about Holland and our off-season:

Here in this thread

Here in this one as well

Here in this one too

and finally

Here


Holland is a damn good GM. period.


#31 turbowhistle86

turbowhistle86

    4th Line Grinder

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 292 posts
  • Location:Illinois

Posted 12 July 2012 - 09:42 AM

I still think he will make a few tweaks this off-season. Am I mistaken or are we not even to the cap floor yet? I don't agree with signing Semin and Doan to multi-year deals and being stuck with that.

I still believe that having a mediocre year and first round exit would be worth landing Weber and Getzlaf next year, not to mention what might come at the trade deadline this year.

#32 dirtydangles

dirtydangles

    Hall-of-Famer

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,705 posts

Posted 12 July 2012 - 09:46 AM

My concern is it just seems like holland wants us to slip into the playoffs and then win it somehow ala LA. but we don't have the quality underachieving players they do that can turn it on in the playoffs possibly. Holland wants this team to make the playoffs every year it possibly can rather than trying to make changes to have it win, but possibly weaken it for the short term. Seems like he's buying into the idea that any team can win in the playoffs.

Is there a kickstarter campaign for Jakub Kindl to never play another NHL game?


#33 Hatethedrake!

Hatethedrake!

    1st Line All-Star

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,496 posts
  • Location:Ontario

Posted 12 July 2012 - 09:48 AM

What is Kenny supposed to say? I have glaring needs and I MUST acquire a scoring winger and a top 4 dman? Alot of what Kenny says is posturing. Of course he knows we have specific needs. He can't look desperate though. That being said, he needs to make an impact trade eventually. Playing it safe all the time will get him nowhere. Now I don't know when the right time to make this trade is, but at some point he has to make one. Whether it be this summer, during the season, at the trade deadline or next summer...I don't know. There is too much competitiion for the best free agents each summer and Kenny can't just assume they will sign with his team just because they are the Detroit Red Wings. It's much harder to make trades now because there is so much parity. So many teams think that if they get some luck, they can win the Cup like LA did as a #8 seed. If today's game of being a GM is too complicated or too hard for Kenny then I hate to say it but maybe it's time he be replaced. It just seems the past few seasons he has been over his head and not really had a clear plan on what to do. He's done a nice job of developing some young talent in the minors and over in Europe. But he hasn't really done anything to improve his team. Maybe Jim Nill should be the GM and Kenny can have a different job in the front office. I've been a Ken Holland supporter for a long time but I keep seeing the same patterns over and over again. The guy doesn't want to do anything. It's like he is scared to give anything up. I liked how he went after both Parise and Suter even though he failed. At least he tried. But now it's back to playing it safe. It was alright to play it safe back when we had incredible depth. Now we do not have this luxury. Losing a Hall of Fame dman in Lidstrom and not replacing him with anyone is inexcusable. Again, I know it is not easy to go out and acquire a top level dman. But this is why Kenny is the highest paid GM in hockey. He is supposed to have the skillset to do this. Other GMs make moves. Shero, Holmgren, Lamoriello to name a few. At least they are pro-active in trying to improve their teams. All Kenny does is say he is happy with his team. I know it's easy for me to sit here and be the Monday morning quarterback and play the woulda coulda shoulda game. Hindsight is 20/20. But I am not being paid millions of dollars to be the GM o the Detroit Red Wings. I know I will be criticized for saying it but here goes...I think Holland takes his job for granted. He has been doing it for so long and he has been successful doing it. I think now he is complacent and has zero fear of ever losing it. It's like the way Franzen plays now. Before he got the big contract, he was busting his ass and working hard and looked like he would be a perennial 40 goal scorer who came up big in the playoffs. Now he has the big contract and he shows up when he feels like it or is having fun. I just don't see the drive in Holland anymore. I mean I think he does care about his job and takes pride in it. But I don't think he has that fire to win the Cup anymore. Because of this, I don't see him doing enough to make this team better. This team is like the movie Groundhog Day. Is there really any difference between 2010, 2011 and now 2012? Other than Lidstrom, Rafalski and Stuart being gone? Not really. Sure, I'm a spoiled Red Wings fan. We all are. 20 years of making the playoffs will do that. Is it wrong for me to expect my team to try and get better each season? What am I supposed to do? Be happy with seeing my team win 4 Cups and then not care anymore? I can't do that. I expect much more from the Detroit Red Wings. At least try to make moves to compete for the Stanley Cup. If you fail then so be it. At least you tried and that's all any fan can ask really. I know some will ask "what would you do then?" I would TRY to improve this team through free agency or trade. However, I don't believe Holland is really trying as hard as he should be. I may be wrong but hey it's my opinion. I see the same song and dance every summer now. We like our team. We like our team. We like our team. Well that's nice Kenny. I like our team too Kenny. I wish we could add some more pieces though. Anyway, that's what I think.
Jordan Tootoo will wreck shop.

We need someone like Parise that can penetrate the box.-blueadams

#34 Carman

Carman

    Legend

  • HoF Booster
  • 5,114 posts
  • Location:Riverview, MI

Posted 12 July 2012 - 09:49 AM

My concern is it just seems like holland wants us to slip into the playoffs and then win it somehow ala LA. but we don't have the quality underachieving players they do that can turn it on in the playoffs possibly. Holland wants this team to make the playoffs every year it possibly can rather than trying to make changes to have it win, but possibly weaken it for the short term. Seems like he's buying into the idea that any team can win in the playoffs.


Or the more likely reason is that he's just playing the media, and you always say you are happy with your team no matter what. Holland can't go out in an interview and say we NEED a top 6 forward and top pairing defensemen!!!! That's just going to hurt him in the trade market.

#35 turbowhistle86

turbowhistle86

    4th Line Grinder

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 292 posts
  • Location:Illinois

Posted 12 July 2012 - 09:55 AM

My concern is it just seems like holland wants us to slip into the playoffs and then win it somehow ala LA. but we don't have the quality underachieving players they do that can turn it on in the playoffs possibly. Holland wants this team to make the playoffs every year it possibly can rather than trying to make changes to have it win, but possibly weaken it for the short term. Seems like he's buying into the idea that any team can win in the playoffs.


That's partially true....all it takes it a favorable first or second round matchup to build some steam and have those one or two "average" players have "elite" performances. Remember when Franzen, Pavelski, etc had crazy playoff performances? Your highest paid players aren't always your best.

If you keep filling your top 6 with older past-prime talent, your young stars can't get the chance to shine. I can see Brunner and Helm having great seasons and proving they can put up top 6 results with top 6 playing time.

#36 stevkrause

stevkrause

    Legend

  • Bronze Booster
  • 5,236 posts
  • Location:Detroit, MI

Posted 12 July 2012 - 09:57 AM

Or the more likely reason is that he's just playing the media, and you always say you are happy with your team no matter what. Holland can't go out in an interview and say we NEED a top 6 forward and top pairing defensemen!!!! That's just going to hurt him in the trade market.

you know, when you're not being a Crosby slappy, you have some really solid, well thought out, salient posts! :colgate:

All I have to say about Holland and our off-season:

Here in this thread

Here in this one as well

Here in this one too

and finally

Here


Holland is a damn good GM. period.


#37 Frozen-Man

Frozen-Man

    Thanks for the memories

  • Gold Booster
  • 1,579 posts

Posted 12 July 2012 - 10:06 AM

How exactly are we risking our money if it's not being allocated to anything else...? If it's essentially, just sitting there? Don't risk some money on a previous 40 goal scorer for a team in need of scoring depth? Just don't understand your argument...


The money is not just sitting there. It is actual real money that if spent is money that The Wings and Ilitch really lose. From experience it is clear that Ilitch doesn't mind spending the money to greatly improve the team but I don't think he wants $17M being spent just because it's "just sitting there." The FA group this year sucked . . . You had two great quality guys who wanted to go to their hometown area and be where their family grew up and most still lived (and I think you could argue that the Wild doubled down on that desire by overpaying both guys in overall contract and in term). After that there is not much there. Most FA's want multi-year deals which not only affects cap space this year but into the future. By overpaying for a guy this year just because the Wings have the cap space hinders them in the future as well. They have to sign Flip and Howard next year and the FA crop next year should be great. I just don't see Semin as making enough of a difference to have the cap hit NEXT year which would likely be a prerequisite to signing him this year.



"One day, we might be able to bring a player of significance here."

Erm...we have 16 million in cap space. We're a legendary team. We should be able to bring a player of significance here this summer, not in the distant future.


Yeah the Wings have the cap space, yeah they are a legendary team . . . However, there were only two players of significance in the FA pool this year and they both wanted to play together, get matching contracts, AND wanted to go home. Cap space and being a legendary team don't amount to much when
players want to go home and home isn't Michigan.



I really wish he wouldn't say he's content with our roster up front.


What do you want him to say, there are no great FA's he can get (Doan would probably be the best option out there) and most trades look like lateral moves at best (based upon asking prices) - - Would you prefer he said "You thought we were bad in the playoffs last year . . . just wait until you see us this year . . . assuming that by some miracle we actually get to the post season . . . however our fans can look forward to the anticipation of the draft lottery . . . oh yeah any good players want to come over and be part of that this season? Please . . . pretty please."

Posturing in the media is part of his job. I'm sure he is concerned about the team and would like to add great pieces but that might not be an option at this time.


*For the record I think the team will do fairly well this year and will make the playoffs.

"Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience." - Mark Twain


#38 RedWingsDad

RedWingsDad

    Bigot

  • Restricted
  • PipPip
  • 437 posts

Posted 12 July 2012 - 10:08 AM

I believe our BIGGEST weakness the past three seasons has been lack of motivation / heart, that intangible 'gusto' that a team needs to win the cup.... call it what you want. In that area I think we made strides with the addition of Tootoo, Samuelsson (he's a chirper), and a presumed injection of youth in Smith / Nyquist. I think we could add even more of that intangible if we manage to sign Doan, though I don't think that's likely. At any rate, I’m very optimistic on that front.

Edited by RedWingsDad, 12 July 2012 - 10:28 AM.

Tim Thomas - Patriot and generally awesome human being.
 
Romans 10:13 - For whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.

#39 haroldsnepsts

haroldsnepsts

    "Classy"

  • HoF Booster Mod
  • 16,931 posts

Posted 12 July 2012 - 10:09 AM

He also said this in the mlive article:

"We're going to continue to explore the market," he said. "There are some players on the free agent market that we have some interest in. There is some trade talk out there, which we're trying to explore.
"I think right now is a slow time. I think it'll start to heat up again in a couple of weeks."


http://www.mlive.com...holland_st.html

So he's not necessarily done, though I understand the frustration. I was disappointed when Holland didn't make a move in the offseason or trade deadline for what we all could've guessed was Lidstrom's last season. Now he's in the press basically trying to have it both ways, patting himself on the back that the Wings were one of two teams that met with Parise, but then spins it that maybe their 13 year term (which I thought the Wings matched?) was too long with his "out of the game for a decade" comment. It's also a little funny to hear him say that given the contracts he gave to Zetterberg and especially Franzen.

The lack of moves is frustrating, as are his comments. I'm just trying to wait patiently and hope he makes another move or two.

#40 puckbags

puckbags

    The Future

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,601 posts
  • Location:Cobble Hill, BC, Canada ( 2,522 Miles from the Joe)

Posted 12 July 2012 - 10:14 AM

I mean, I completely understand that the fanbase can be discontent with the way this offseason has gone and the fact that the DRW are simply not as reliable as they used to be being a locked elite team.

But come on now, that's the way the NHL has gone since the lockout, and frankly, that's sports in general. I have to agree with the old bit that we are spoiled as DRW fans these past two decades. With salary caps, long term contracts, and the sport even changing in itself, it's just extremely difficult to keep a first place team on the ice year after year. I am just as unhappy to say this is the roster the squad has moving forward, but it is what it is. We're talking about Kenny Holland and the Detroit Red Wings here. He's not going to just pull the trigger on some drawn up deal that took a few minutes to think up. He is going to do what is best for the organization in the long run and do what he can in the short run. He has proven that. He has fudged up as of late, sure. But the cards are stacked against you right now. You can't win them all.

Parody has taught us you don't need a dream team to win in all. The Wings aren't set up to win the President's Trophy next year. They will roll with what they got and if they have a terrible year, so be it. Maybe a wake call and finishing 12th in the Conference will be a wake up call to everyone in this town to cherish what we have had these past twenty years.

Cheers. LGW


Nobody is a lock anyomore, an 8th seed just won the cup by knocking out the top 3 seeds on their way. Home ice advantage is completely overrated. Just make the playoffs is the motto now a days.

No way this team finishes 12th..end of story. Its going to be a great divisional race in the central which will only help us get better.
  • Ram likes this

"Hard Work Beats Talent When Talent Refuses to Work Hard"

 

LGW after 1 loss is irrational, after a few in a row it becomes quite comical, 22 playoff appearances in a row and 4 cups in that time and still going strong. Relaxxxxx !!
 






Similar Topics Collapse

0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users