324 replies to this topic

[hillbillywingsfan]

I feel like a lot of people are underestimating the impact Smith will have. The kid is a pure stud and will prove why he's one of the most talked about rookies in Detroit's system. I have a feeling Smith will make Holland look like a genius for not blowing up the team for a 1 year run.

This is how I feel. I am so excited to see Smith play. I really have that feeling that he is going to surprise us all. I would like to see Semin on our team just for a season to see how he plays with Dats but that's just my own curiosity.

[Wings10]

I think Holland is being smart..save the cap space, especially with a new CBA coming.

[joshy207]

Holland was relatively inactive last offseason, citing the lack of quality free agents and the high prices of those who were available, and was holding off on spending big until this summer, when the UFA class was much better. Well, look what happened... most of the top pending UFAs re-signed during the season. We were left with two big players, both of whom Holland just missed out on getting. Now he's likely saving for next off-season, but who knows what players will actually be available?

[turbowhistle86]

Depends on what you're packin'.

esteef

Are you suggesting we'd like gaping holes if we were packing Semin? Sorry....couldn't resist!

[beachwing]

I leave gaping holes

[Carman]

Holland was relatively inactive last offseason, citing the lack of quality free agents and the high prices of those who were available, and was holding off on spending big until this summer, when the UFA class was much better. Well, look what happened... most of the top pending UFAs re-signed during the season. We were left with two big players, both of whom Holland just missed out on getting. Now he's likely saving for next off-season, but who knows what players will actually be available?

So last off-season what did you want him to do? They couldn't afford Brad Richards with Lidstrom coming back, did you want to spend 4.5 million on Connolly? How about 2.8 on Arnott? Fleischmann for 4 million? Gagne for 3.5? Really don't think any of those forwards would have made a huge impact on the quality of team for the coming years.

Defensemen? Did you want any of these names Jovanowski for 4 years, $16.5 million? haha
Hamirilk, Souray, Kaberle 3 years(which I would have been ok with), Wisniewski 6 years, Ehrhoff 10 years?

Ian White for 2 years, $5.75 million was a great deal for the wings, all the above players you had to make a long term commitment, for a player that's not exactly proven to be a very good NHLer year after year.

Free agency is not the only way to win a Stanley Cup, Trading and Drafting/Development are both better options due to getting better deals for players you aren't sure of. You don't give out huge contracts at free agency for players that are just average to above, you give them to players you are sure will be among the best in the league. You overpay in free agency, so you have to be sure you give yourself the best option to get your investment back, and these past two offseasons the only players worth the long term commitment they got where Suter/Parise/Richards(couldn't afford) and the Wings did what they could to get them.

Now if we heard that the Red Wings aren't involved in any of these players then I'd understand the disappointment, but the Wings are involved in practically every available player through trades and almost all of the higher end free agents means that Holland is working, and he's not just given up and playing golf somewhere.

[Doc Holliday]

It's in the Detroit News article, but they're paraphrasin his point right around there so there's not much context to be had really.

http://www.detroitne...0392/1128/rss16

Well I'm not sure that is "having it both ways."

He is happy that the Red Wings still were competitive enough to gain the attention of Parise, but at the same time talks about how he may have not wanted to go for both players for that long for that much.

In another article he even talks about how he can only really be able to support one or two more of those types of deals, which may have made him leery about Parise.

Edited by Doc Holliday, 12 July 2012 - 03:08 PM.

[Heaten]

Holland was relatively inactive last offseason, citing the lack of quality free agents and the high prices of those who were available, and was holding off on spending big until this summer, when the UFA class was much better. Well, look what happened... most of the top pending UFAs re-signed during the season. We were left with two big players, both of whom Holland just missed out on getting. Now he's likely saving for next off-season, but who knows what players will actually be available?

Welcome to the wonderful cap-era Hockey League. Guess there are 29 other teams looking to improve instead of a handful like the past. Overpaying for average players isn't the solution long term, or short term, for that matter.

Drafting and development is more important than ever. Holland recognizes this which is why he is so tight on not trading prospects. I'm sure if Holland wanted to run things the "Chicago way", he could go all-in for a 1-year window then be bottom dwellers for the next 5. What's the point? Atleast if you have a team that makes the playoffs, you have a chance to win it all. Not making the playoffs means you aren't winning anything but better picks.

Bottom line, despite all this "arm-chair GMing" we got going on here, managing a competitive team year in, year out is a balancing act. Some years will be better than others. That's the way it goes.

Lets take a look at all these "good teams" on paper:

Penguins - What have they won since 2009?
Rangers - What have they won since landing big name FA Richards?
Flyers - What have they won since post-salary-cap?
Chicago - What have they won since their infamous fire sale 2010?
Vancouver - What have they won since shaking the name "playoff chokers"? (did they even shake that name?)
San Jose - One of the top teams on paper last year, how did that work out for them?


What other top teams are there besides Detroit? Detroit has succeeded as much as the almighty Penguins since 2009 who tanked for a decade to win now, are more stable than the Blackhawks, and won a cup and went to the finals; more than Canucks can boast about...

Funny thing is, Red Wings, despite not drafting top-10 for 20 years, are still in the mix of things. And LA and Boston have proven you don't need an Elite team, but a healthy, and hard working team with a hot goaltender. Babcock is known to get the most out of his guys, and Howard has proven he can get hot.

Remember 2002 when you could spend 100-million and beat teams that spent 20-million? those days are gone...

Holland is building the best possible team he can without 'overspending'. He's keeping money available for when that opportunity presents itself. He's not giving future Red Wings UFA ammunition to say "hey, you gave Semin $8 million and he only scored 40 points and was a -34, I want to get paid, too!"...

This isn't NHL13, people!

Edited by Heaten, 12 July 2012 - 03:18 PM.

[Johnz96]

He is not. I read it the same way, because, well, thats exactly what it said. That Quincy and Smith will "replace" (the exact word he used) Stuart and Lidstrom.

Oh, and I am not some doom and gloom negative person about this off season, I've been staying positive and hoping for the best, so you cannot attempt to refute MY comment by passive attacks and accusing me of only being negative like you did with him.



You know what I'd like to see people give a rest? (in general, not just here at this forum) Calling anyone with a different opinion or alternate suggestion a "hater" or "basher"

Those are such lame, overused internet terms. Don't agree with me? Oh, you're a hater then. Post any other comments or alternate suggestion? Quit bashing.

Lame.....

I think when someone says Holland has no balls to pull off a deal or something like (I've heard his balls come into question a few times here) that it is hating.
All you Holland bashers are wrong

[Seraph]

His comments could be aimed to drive down how desperate the team looks so he'll have more bargaining chips at the trading table?

[Salviaman]

I wake up to this? I am very disappointed and concerned at this moment. Ken Holland take off your rose-colored glasses and take a look around. "Content" is a terrible word to use, why not say you are confident in the current roster?

[Shoreline]

I'm disappointed with what's gone on this offseason and the lack of replacements for Lids and Stu, but I'm embarrassed as a Wings fan for these Holland bashers who want the Wings to be like the Rangers, giving fans instant gratification of russian roulette major signings, releases, and roster implosions and explosions obviously without any results. So many spoiled fans. I think I'll be patient and see what unfolds. The Red Wings are hardly a disappointment franchise so.. far from reason to be up in arms.

Edited by Shoreline, 12 July 2012 - 03:36 PM.

[Salviaman]

Yes, we have spoiled fans. That comes with the territory of winning. All I want is for Holland to take a chance and sign Semin. He needs to re-energize the fan base with a big name signing. There is no excuse to have WAY over $10+ million in cap space and not do anything with it. We all know your gonna wait till the trade deadline to see what can be had but then you don't pull the trigger. There is no one that will trade a top 4 D-man to Detroit without risking the future of the franchise. So take a risk on Semin to bolster up the offense and see if we can outscore teams instead of playing defense and losing like we have been since 2010.

[Shoreline]

Yes, we have spoiled fans. That comes with the territory of winning. All I want is for Holland to take a chance and sign Semin. He needs to re-energize the fan base with a big name signing. There is no excuse to have WAY over $10+ million in cap space and not do anything with it. We all know your gonna wait till the trade deadline to see what can be had but then you don't pull the trigger. There is no one that will trade a top 4 D-man to Detroit without risking the future of the franchise. So take a risk on Semin to bolster up the offense and see if we can outscore teams instead of playing defense and losing like we have been since 2010.

For a team that plays so defensively I kinda think that 7th and 2nd in the last few years respectively in the league in goals/gpg is hardly that defensive-oriented.

And why must cap space be emptied out? What's the justification? Also, what's the rush? It's early July.. having space now gives the Wings an advantage in signing someone the organisation thinks is worth that cost. Not having space means the team is forced to bend over in a trade. Some people really aren't thinking clearly. Your vision is blowing away tact for instant gratification. Go enjoy your summer, take a vacation, go to the beach.. waiting around day after day for the Wings to throw cap space away on pie in the sky gambles is going to leave you disappointed it looks like.

Edited by Shoreline, 12 July 2012 - 03:54 PM.

[esteef]

For a team that plays so defensively I kinda think that 7th and 2nd in the last few years respectively in the league in goals/gpg is hardly that defensive-oriented.

And why must cap space be emptied out? ...

esteef

[Salviaman]

I never said "emptied out". Stop putting words in my mouth. I said we have cap space and we should use it. I never said we should use it ALL or empty it out....

[Shoreline]

esteef

[MulesWillFly93]

As much as I hate the situation we're in, I'm glad we're not going to blow all our money now when we're still going to have the same problem after next season and will need to try to sign a defenseman again. I'm still disappointed about the way things turned out and am not feeling optimistic about next season, but I think Holland's handling the cards he's been dealt as best he can.

As for his comments, I'm really not bothered by them. Like he's going to say, "Sorry, guys, but without Suter or Parise, this bunch of jokers we've got right now aren't going to do diddly squat in the playoffs. God I wish Nick hadn't retired. I'm going to go drink a fifth of vodka now." Right. He said what he's expected to say, and I'm okay with that.

[pucktividi]

Ok,let see:

-'we need top scorer and another top d-man'........'

First off, we're done in goal. I think we've got lots of pieces of up front...

it's not like we've lost two guys(Nick and Stuie) and don't have any players."

-FA signings:Brunner,Tootoo,Sammy,Monster.....

"I don't think we need a whole bunch of guys,

I think if we can get one more player, (we'll be fine)."

-re-signing Bertuzzi,adding Samuelsson and probably some veteran d-man....."we'll let the kids play"

I'm not on the "fire Ken" bandwagon,but can someone explain me WTF is going on here?

[Dominator2005]

For sure that Kenny likes this team... He build this team, he can't say he don't like it...