324 replies to this topic

[stevkrause]

This is what it is like trying to talk to some members of this board right now:

Holland is a great GM. Period.

Edited by stevkrause, 12 July 2012 - 09:08 PM.

[NHLrules?]

The nly problem I have with is, our D has not been good the last 3 years. Now with the loss of Lids and Stuart, we are a wreck in the back end.

[Drake_Marcus]

Come on,his words were he'll do everything he can to get Suter/Parise,and it's not like the media don't know we are desperate to get d-men after Lidstrom/Stuart departures

This is how negotiation works in the NHL... you tell everyone you don't need what the other guy has and you're not going to budge... then you pray he believes you and drops his price.

[gcom007]

And I'm sorry, I don't buy for a second that anyone can honestly say they're comfortable with our chances of being a successful team with our defense consisting of Kronwall, White, Ericsson, Smith, Quincey and Kindl. I mean, really...? Really...? I'm not knocking them as individual players right now, I'm just saying, look at that group and remind yourself that it's the core of your defense right now. Really consider that Lidstrom and Stuart are gone from that group. Maybe it hasn't fully sunk in yet. Maybe you're good at forgetting how lost this team looked last year in March without Lidstrom? I don't blame you; we all wanted to forget that.

Let's just forget about making the playoffs for a second...

Are we even a .500 team with that defense? Maybe in a couple years with more NHL development for the youngans, but next year? Seriously?

Don't forget or overlook how important Lidstrom's contribution to our offense was as well.

I don't want to s*** on anyone trying to be optimistic; it's a noble thing and I will cheer this team on next season no matter what. But none the less, I don't think people have really accepted what we're going to be dealing with next year, nor are people willing to admit how much Holland has mishandled the whole situation the last 3-4 years. You can talk all you want about how "smart" it is to not make ridiculous reactionary moves now, but we never should've been in this position.

And we've been talking about how "smart" Holland is for sitting on his hands because of the "cap" or some player's "potential" for four summers in a row now, and here we are: Lidstrom's gone, Stuart's gone, Hudler's gone again (I'm completely okay with that one, but he still scored goals and that hasn't been our strong suit...). We didn't land our primary free agent targets. We added Tootoo and an older Samuelson (and a good backup goalie, but hopefully that'll be a fairly inconsequential addition this year). Our defense as of now features Kronwall, White, Ericsson, Smith, Quincey and Kindl. No Lidstrom. No Stuart.

Very, very, very few options left.

Smart?

Edited by gcom007, 12 July 2012 - 09:18 PM.

[F.Michael]

This is what it is like trying to talk to some members of this board right now:

Holland is a great GM. Period.

Will your opinion of him change if the Red Wings don't make it into the playoffs come spring of 2013 - 'cause as of right now - with this roster - I see us finishing anywhere from 7th thru 10th in the Conference.

And I'm sorry, I don't buy for a second that anyone can honestly say they're comfortable with our chances of being a successful team with our defense consisting of Kronwall, White, Ericsson, Smith, Quincey and Kindl. I mean, really...? Really...? I'm not knocking them as individual players right now, I'm just saying, look at that group and remind yourself that it's the core of your defense right now. Really consider that Lidstrom and Stuart are gone from that group. Maybe it hasn't fully sunk in yet. Maybe you're good at forgetting how lost this team looked last year in March without Lidstrom? I don't blame you; we all wanted to forget that.

Let's just forget about making the playoffs for a second...

Are we even a .500 team with that defense? Maybe in a couple years with more NHL development for the youngans, but next year? Seriously?

Don't forget or overlook how important Lidstrom's contribution to our offense was as well.

I don't want to s*** on anyone trying to be optimistic; it's a noble thing and I will cheer this team on next season no matter what. But none the less, I don't think people have really accepted what we're going to be dealing with next year, nor are people willing to admit how much Holland has mishandled the whole situation the last 3-4 years. You can talk all you want about how "smart" it is to not make ridiculous reactionary moves now, but we never should've been in this position.

And we've been talking about how "smart" Holland is for sitting on his hands because of the "cap" or some player's "potential" for four summers in a row now, and here we are: Lidstrom's gone, Stuart's gone, Hudler's gone again (I'm completely okay with that one, but he still scored goals and that hasn't been our strong suit...). We didn't land our primary free agent targets. We added Tootoo and an older Samuelson (and a good backup goalie, but hopefully that'll be a fairly inconsequential addition this year). Our defense as of now features Kronwall, White, Ericsson, Smith, Quincey and Kindl. No Lidstrom. No Stuart.

Very, very, very few options left.

Smart?

[esteef]

It's gonna take breaking the playoff streak before people finally wake up. And I'm not even sure that would do it.

esteef

[jollymania]

It's gonna take breaking the playoff streak before people finally wake up. And I'm not even sure that would do it.

esteef

who cares about the playoff streak, with the parity in todays game you can't win it every year. The main thing is staying entertaining, that is hard since the sport pussified.

[gcom007]

For as much as people here talk about how much they hate Bettman, they sound more and more like him every day.

[GMRwings1983]

I know one thing.

If this was NHL 12, I'd be fired as GM for doing as little as Holland has done the last few years.

who cares about the playoff streak, with the parity in todays game you can't win it every year. The main thing is staying entertaining, that is hard since the sport pussified.

We're not entertaining.

Signing a top offensive player or an enforcer would have made us more entertaining. We didn't do either, although Tootoo should excited the ennui laden JLA crowd somewhat.

[evilmrt]

I love this thread! Finally, some real lively debate on LGW, and in the middle of the summer, no less!!!

[55fan]

We always seem to be on the same page with these matters, yet for whatever reason, you never get ripped apart like I do.

What's your secret?

We all have him on ignore.



Nothing to back it up but gut feeling, but I am seeing Doan in a Wheel. It seems like when we've at least gotten close to a Cup, there's been at least one team member going all-out for a Cup before retirement.

There are some on the roster as it stands who have not experienced the Cup, but they're all young.
Doan could give us that hunger. We've been missing some sort of intangible since we won the last Cup. Maybe having that extra drive will motivate a team that sorely needs it.

[Drake_Marcus]

And I'm sorry, I don't buy for a second that anyone can honestly say they're comfortable with our chances of being a successful team with our defense consisting of Kronwall, White, Ericsson, Smith, Quincey and Kindl. I mean, really...? Really...? I'm not knocking them as individual players right now, I'm just saying, look at that group and remind yourself that it's the core of your defense right now. Really consider that Lidstrom and Stuart are gone from that group. Maybe it hasn't fully sunk in yet. Maybe you're good at forgetting how lost this team looked last year in March without Lidstrom? I don't blame you; we all wanted to forget that.

Let's just forget about making the playoffs for a second...

Are we even a .500 team with that defense? Maybe in a couple years with more NHL development for the youngans, but next year? Seriously?

Don't forget or overlook how important Lidstrom's contribution to our offense was as well.

I don't want to s*** on anyone trying to be optimistic; it's a noble thing and I will cheer this team on next season no matter what. But none the less, I don't think people have really accepted what we're going to be dealing with next year, nor are people willing to admit how much Holland has mishandled the whole situation the last 3-4 years. You can talk all you want about how "smart" it is to not make ridiculous reactionary moves now, but we never should've been in this position.

And we've been talking about how "smart" Holland is for sitting on his hands because of the "cap" or some player's "potential" for four summers in a row now, and here we are: Lidstrom's gone, Stuart's gone, Hudler's gone again (I'm completely okay with that one, but he still scored goals and that hasn't been our strong suit...). We didn't land our primary free agent targets. We added Tootoo and an older Samuelson (and a good backup goalie, but hopefully that'll be a fairly inconsequential addition this year). Our defense as of now features Kronwall, White, Ericsson, Smith, Quincey and Kindl. No Lidstrom. No Stuart.

Very, very, very few options left.

Smart?

It all depends-- do you honestly think this team is a few pieces from being a legitimate contender 5 years from now? No. Once Dats an Z are outside that window things look pretty bleak.

Time to man up and accept that we might need a better draft position than where we've been for 20 years-- basically starting in the second round.

Lottery picks please?

[Johnz96]

And I'm sorry, I don't buy for a second that anyone can honestly say they're comfortable with our chances of being a successful team with our defense consisting of Kronwall, White, Ericsson, Smith, Quincey and Kindl. I mean, really...? Really...? I'm not knocking them as individual players right now, I'm just saying, look at that group and remind yourself that it's the core of your defense right now. Really consider that Lidstrom and Stuart are gone from that group. Maybe it hasn't fully sunk in yet. Maybe you're good at forgetting how lost this team looked last year in March without Lidstrom? I don't blame you; we all wanted to forget that.

Let's just forget about making the playoffs for a second...

Are we even a .500 team with that defense? Maybe in a couple years with more NHL development for the youngans, but next year? Seriously?

Don't forget or overlook how important Lidstrom's contribution to our offense was as well.

I don't want to s*** on anyone trying to be optimistic; it's a noble thing and I will cheer this team on next season no matter what. But none the less, I don't think people have really accepted what we're going to be dealing with next year, nor are people willing to admit how much Holland has mishandled the whole situation the last 3-4 years. You can talk all you want about how "smart" it is to not make ridiculous reactionary moves now, but we never should've been in this position.

And we've been talking about how "smart" Holland is for sitting on his hands because of the "cap" or some player's "potential" for four summers in a row now, and here we are: Lidstrom's gone, Stuart's gone, Hudler's gone again (I'm completely okay with that one, but he still scored goals and that hasn't been our strong suit...). We didn't land our primary free agent targets. We added Tootoo and an older Samuelson (and a good backup goalie, but hopefully that'll be a fairly inconsequential addition this year). Our defense as of now features Kronwall, White, Ericsson, Smith, Quincey and Kindl. No Lidstrom. No Stuart.

Very, very, very few options left.

Smart?

That defense sounds better to me than Doughty, Greene, Mitchell, Martinez, Voynov and Scuderi
or
Salvadore, Zidlicky, Harrold, Fayne, Volchenkov and Greene

[13dangledangle]

Or the more likely reason is that he's just playing the media, and you always say you are happy with your team no matter what. Holland can't go out in an interview and say we NEED a top 6 forward and top pairing defensemen!!!! That's just going to hurt him in the trade market.

This is what I was thinking. We (he) knew from the get go we were going to have a rougher time as teams also knew how much doe we (he) have (has). My guess is now the kinda plan were on is were we (he) sits back for a couple weeks (which he also said he expects it to pick up in a couple weeks a few days ago) and have agents think he's BSing...but he's not, but he is, but...Holland you are one crazy sob. Get it done Kenny!

[joesuffP]

Imagine if Flippula continues to go forward and keeps scoring? There's so many intangibles with this team. I believe Datsyuk can get back to 90+ points I think you can say last year a bad year for him. the year before Datsyuk was over a point per game had he not been injured he would have been on the league leaders. Franzen can snap back. It was only two years ago Datsyuk, Zetterberg and Franzen were playing close to their best hockey.

[Shaman464]

Imagine if Flippula continues to go forward and keeps scoring? There's so many intangibles with this team. I believe Datsyuk can get back to 90+ points I think you can say last year a bad year for him. the year before Datsyuk was over a point per game had he not been injured he would have been on the league leaders. Franzen can snap back. It was only two years ago Datsyuk, Zetterberg and Franzen were playing close to their best hockey.

Too. Many. Ifs.

If Datsyuk, Zetterberg, And Franzen go back to old form. If Filpulla continues to progress, Smith, Quinecy, Kindl and Ericsson take the next step. That's what you seem not to grasp, this team COULD be good, but, unless everything goes right, they aren't even as good as they were last year. I expect them to regress to a bubble team, because I am realistic, I will cheer for them if they are a bottom feeder or SC winners, but I won't delude myself.

[jroc86]

I think our defense very well "could" be much better off than were all giving them credit for right now.

Kronwall is our guy - and he would be a top pairing guy on any other team in the league right now aside from Chicago.

White - hes serviceable, competes hard, and is a better player than he gets credit with. Hes good - not great, hence why hes always the peice going to other way in trades to sweeten a deal.

Ericsson - despite the constant flaming he gets on here has come along way. Defensivley hes vastly under-rated and uses that big body pretty effectively while remaining more mobile than most his size. His penchant for turnovers on the first breakout pass have also gone way down. Its time for him to earn his contract and I think with a bigger role he will.

Smith - well, Schultz is being heralded as the next Paul Coffey already. Jake Gardiner as a rookie threw up 30 points for the leafs and is the biggest untouchable on their team now ... meanwhile Smitty is tougher, more physical, and put home more points at Wisconsin than either of them ever did. Hes a huge piece and very well could be looked upon as our 2nd dman by christmas.

Quincey- offensive upside is there, if healthy a 30-40 pts campaign is probably were hell land which is pretty good for a 4/5 dman in the NHL. If he makes simple plays on the breakout and improves his coverage he could be a pleasant suprise. (I dont like his face or his style period. I hope he canchange that).

Kindl- weve all heard by now, he had more apples than Lids at even strength last year. Well, I stilldont see a guy who is tough, mobile, smart, or physically strong enough to be a full-time NHL player. Id much rather him be our number 7 and only play when someone is hurt or needs a rest.

Our defence is mid pack - but not awful. If we can swing a deal for a Boumeester or Yandle that would be huge - but Im not totally counting on it.

Until the new cap-hit is established I dont think Kenny is going to make a trade (espeiclaly for JBo) because he knows whos probably going to be getting a visit next July 1st. If we get Weber next summer - we will all be thanking god for our unasnwered prayers over the last few months. 11 Months ago the big guy said he wanted to come here and from a few conversations I've had with people around him it seems his agent is steering him this way as well. Not going to drop sources or anything - and if we have an awful year combined with last years poor end things might totally change in his mind if they havent already. But know this - were on his radar, and if this team can tread water and at least make the playoffs again we have a really good shot at getting Weber next summer.

[Johnz96]

I think our defense very well "could" be much better off than were all giving them credit for right now.

Kronwall is our guy - and he would be a top pairing guy on any other team in the league right now aside from Chicago.

White - hes serviceable, competes hard, and is a better player than he gets credit with. Hes good - not great, hence why hes always the peice going to other way in trades to sweeten a deal.

Ericsson - despite the constant flaming he gets on here has come along way. Defensivley hes vastly under-rated and uses that big body pretty effectively while remaining more mobile than most his size. His penchant for turnovers on the first breakout pass have also gone way down. Its time for him to earn his contract and I think with a bigger role he will.

Smith - well, Schultz is being heralded as the next Paul Coffey already. Jake Gardiner as a rookie threw up 30 points for the leafs and is the biggest untouchable on their team now ... meanwhile Smitty is tougher, more physical, and put home more points at Wisconsin than either of them ever did. Hes a huge piece and very well could be looked upon as our 2nd dman by christmas.

Quincey- offensive upside is there, if healthy a 30-40 pts campaign is probably were hell land which is pretty good for a 4/5 dman in the NHL. If he makes simple plays on the breakout and improves his coverage he could be a pleasant suprise. (I dont like his face or his style period. I hope he canchange that).

Kindl- weve all heard by now, he had more apples than Lids at even strength last year. Well, I stilldont see a guy who is tough, mobile, smart, or physically strong enough to be a full-time NHL player. Id much rather him be our number 7 and only play when someone is hurt or needs a rest.

Our defence is mid pack - but not awful. If we can swing a deal for a Boumeester or Yandle that would be huge - but Im not totally counting on it.

Until the new cap-hit is established I dont think Kenny is going to make a trade (espeiclaly for JBo) because he knows whos probably going to be getting a visit next July 1st. If we get Weber next summer - we will all be thanking god for our unasnwered prayers over the last few months. 11 Months ago the big guy said he wanted to come here and from a few conversations I've had with people around him it seems his agent is steering him this way as well. Not going to drop sources or anything - and if we have an awful year combined with last years poor end things might totally change in his mind if they havent already. But know this - were on his radar, and if this team can tread water and at least make the playoffs again we have a really good shot at getting Weber next summer.

Bouwmeester makes twice as much as Kronwall and is half as good.
You don't like Quincey's face? Or was that a typing mistake?

Edited by Johnz96, 13 July 2012 - 04:02 AM.

[Johnz96]

http://www.mlive.com...and_detroi.html

"Once you make those types of decisions, you're out of the game for a decade,"

Someone posted a comment about Danny Markov wanting to come back to the NHL. I tried to find something about it on the net and could not. I would love to have him back with the Wings.

[ogreslayer]

Quincey- offensive upside is there, if healthy a 30-40 pts campaign is probably were hell land which is pretty good for a 4/5 dman in the NHL. If he makes simple plays on the breakout and improves his coverage he could be a pleasant suprise. (I dont like his face or his style period. I hope he canchange that).

If the Wings pay for his plastic surgery, would it count against the cap?