324 replies to this topic

[stevkrause]

Will your opinion of him change if the Red Wings don't make it into the playoffs come spring of 2013 - 'cause as of right now - with this roster - I see us finishing anywhere from 7th thru 10th in the Conference.

Not one bit - one down year does not tarnish an entire body of work and it's that exact mentality that has my so annoyed with the general spoiled brat mentality on here lately....

Holland has been an integral part of our brain trust for over 20 years and adapted AMAZINGLY to the salary cap era (take a look at how well all of the other previous big market clubs have done since this was implemented) and has brought us (or been part of) 4 Stanley cups, 21 straight playoff appearances (might I mind you the longest active streak in PROFESSIONAL SPORTS), countless division titles and most importantly, a chance to win it all every year... that is damn near impossible in today's sports landscape, and I guarantee 29 other clubs would KILL to have such a horrible problem on their hands...

Even if we miss the playoffs this year (which I don't think we will), Holland will re-tool and put us back within Stanley Cup contention in no time, and when we're a perennial favorite again, win even MORE cups and titles under his reign, the people with this mentality will still be waiting for the team to have ONE year that's down again, so they can yell "fire him"... It's laughable...

Might I remind everyone that during his tenure we've also recovered from unexpectedly losing Konstantinov (a perennial Norris hopeful), unexpectedly losing Jiri Fischer(who was well on his way to being one of the premier big dmen in the league), adapting to a salary cap era AND now, he is losing the best (arguably) defenseman of all time and Holland WILL, as always, adapt to this... just because he didn't pull a rabbit out of his ass, when nothing was available right now, doesn't make him less capable and NOT chasing after marginal players to fill a hole they can't anyway, IS what makes him even better...

I am not commenting on this topic any further because it's like screaming at the deaf and if those who disagree can't understand all these points and take them for what they are, I don't know what else to say... As I said before, everyone has the right to be upset this off-season hasn't gone as planned, but COME ON.

Edited by stevkrause, 15 July 2012 - 07:57 AM.

[SouthernHockeyHoney]

I feel like a lot of people are underestimating the impact Smith will have. The kid is a pure stud and will prove why he's one of the most talked about rookies in Detroit's system. I have a feeling Smith will make Holland look like a genius for not blowing up the team for a 1 year run.

Edit:

Wasn't it Babcock that made the comment "Smith is the type of player you build a team around"?

I agree whole-heartedly with this. The logic that we have to address any holes with RFA's or trades is silly. Why do we even have a farm system? Why spend the time and money to scout, recruit, and develop prospects if management is going to fill every available roster spot from outside the organization? Was it right to attempt to land Suter? Yes. Was it right to NOT overspend? Absolutely.

I'm looking forward to seeing Smith and some of the others play this season.No one can say with any certainty what is going to happen with the Wings or any other team out there. Suter or Parise could suffer a season-ending injury in the pre-season (a la Mursak). Smith and some of the other young ones could exceed expectations, and their exuberance could be infectious with the veterans. Could the converse scenario also be true? Of course. Let them play and see what happens.

Kind of ridiculous to doom a team before even a second of hockey is played.

[turbowhistle86]

I want to go on record as not liking Quincey's face too....

[beachwing]

No doubt we all have very high expectations for our team and thoise very expecations come from our incredible success over the last 20 years.....i love those expectations and all the rabid fans it brings about, both for and against kennys moves.

Can you imagine if the Wings were more like our Lions?

[stevkrause]

No doubt we all have very high expectations for our team and thoise very expecations come from our incredible success over the last 20 years.....i love those expectations and all the rabid fans it brings about, both for and against kennys moves.

Can you imagine if the Wings were more like our Lions?

Although things have been looking up there... you bite your tongue!

I want to go on record as not liking Quincey's face too....

[RedWingsDad]

I want to go on record as not liking Quincey's face too....

It's true! I Was telling my wife the other day... there is something about his face that I don't like and it makes me not want to like him as a player for some reason. lol

[55fan]

I'm content with Quincey's face

Edited by 55fan, 13 July 2012 - 09:00 AM.

[Z Winged Dangler]

I'm content with Quincey's face

He kinda looks like the singer from Godsmack. Sully Erna i think his name is.

[RedWingsDad]

Wait a minute - is he wearing a jock strap on the outside of his pants? Or is that how they always look before they throw on their hockey pants? lol

[Z Winged Dangler]

Wait a minute - is he wearing a jock strap on the outside of his pants? Or is that how they always look before they throw on their hockey pants? lol

He's wearing a jock over his Under Armour one-zee.

[F.Michael]

Wait a minute - is he wearing a jock strap on the outside of his pants? Or is that how they always look before they throw on their hockey pants? lol

I've done the same - more comfortable that way.

He's wearing a jock over his Under Armour one-zee.

I miss the old light blue one-zee's from years ago.

[stevkrause]

I've done the same - more comfortable that way.


I miss the old light blue one-zee's from years ago.

I got the under amour "shorts" with the sock Velcro and built in jock and I wonder how I ever did without them... So much lighter and more comfortable and you don't feel it at all during your strides...

[dustyrhoades9687]

I guess idont understand the risk in signing semin or maybe its just the fact I'm mad we lost first round of the playoffs to the preds (wtf). Or maybe two of the teams members that were on the team that got rid of our dead wings nickname are retiring, if holmstrom does retire that is. Or maybe its the fact that if this semin guy doesn't work out y couldn't we trade him? Or evn sign him and use him to trade to get someone better or.... idk just lost my train o thought any aditions to this or arguments I believe holland will do something. I'm sure illitch doesn't like losing.

[dustyrhoades9687]

Also I think everyone is just well destroyed from losing lindstrom I don't think there really mad at holland. Its kind of like when ur a kid and u think ur parents will live for ever. But they don't, and we all had lindstrom as the guy forever in the wings jerzy. we all new it was gunna happen but never wanted to face the reality of not having him

[stevkrause]

Lidstrom - no n

I can overlook all the other spelling and gramatical errors, but come on... he's a legend, get his name right...

[hattrickz331]

i agree with shanahan man. i don't know how some of you people are drinking the kool aid that holland is serving up, but my god if you can't see that this team is much weaker than last years team that got spanked by the preds and called out by their own coach, then you must have been watching something else. holland has been selling this same old crap for 4 early playoff exits. in my opinon he needs to go, and i have been saying this for years. i live and die with the wings, i was living and dying with them back in the years of the dead wings and the rebirth in 86-87. those were great times. now we have some lazy, overpaid players that holland signed and refuses to get rid of, like frazen. i would have taken hossa anyday over this lazy disappearing act. just my 2 cents

[Heaten]

I'm really surprised that so many are still defending Holland here. If it were just the lack of moves this offseason at play, then I'd understand. It would be dumb to throw too much money at low-quality talent because we didn't pull off the main plan. But as I've said in the past and many others are seeing now, this is a problem that's been brewing for four years now.

He should've made the moves to have pieces in place to build on when Lidstrom left 2-3, maybe even 4 years ago, but he didn't want to move anybody. He should've been actively shopping for a big time young defensemen after we won our last Cup, and yes, he should've given up legitimate, Red Wing-developed talent to do so, hard as it may.

If you ask me, Holland's chief and most critical objective for the last five year has been coming up for a replacement for Lidstrom. They knew it was coming, and they knew the loss would be huge; there could be no bigger hole than the hole left by Lidstrom in this era. The way it's looking now, it is highly likely that the 2012/13 season will start and Holland will have failed to come even remotely close to addressing the hole left by Lidstrom.

But again, to be perfectly clear, Holland didn't fail this summer. He failed for the last 4 years. He keeps coming up with nothing in the off-season and he even admitted in 2009 that he was shocked and unprepared for what happened when all our free-agents walked and we had no real Plan B.

Hell, people are pissed we didn't get Parise this year at a cap hit that would've sat around $7.5 million, but we let Hossa walk who could've been had for a $5 million cap hit because we didn't want to part with guys we developed, despite the fact that they've been inconsistent or wholly unproven performers.

But to be fair, I'm no saying Holland's a bad GM or wouldn't be capable of building a winner again, but I am increasingly of the opinion that he has run his course as the Wings GM. I think he's become too soft and cautious, and I'd venture to say at times out of touch with reality (again, see summer 2009). I think it's easy to gravitate to extremes on this issue and say Holland is a mastermind because of what he accomplished in the past just as easy as it is to say he rode on the coattails of Scotty Bowman's influence. Maybe the true answer is somewhere in between. Maybe he's just too close to this organization and the people in it to make objective opinions. And maybe he's not.

But in any event, in the last 4 years, any way you shake it, he's given no reason to believe that he's still got even a hint of that magic touch still, and even if you want to focus on the positives in his history and his overall capability as a GM, you still have a long way to go in defending the last 4 years of mediocre GMing. After all, even he admitted he blew it in '09, and Babcock all but slammed him about his lack of moves last summer to address problems he saw in the team.

Well considering DRWs were up against the cap and would need to shed salary, no quality FA available, they would need to trade. Who did you want thme to trade? Kronwall? Datsyuk? Or a package of Datsyuk AND Helm + picks?

It's one thing to say "Holland knew this for four years", it's another thing keeping this team in contention under the cap world with little to no assets to trade.

Again, people should have realistic expectations.... after all, this is a salary cap world and even the Detroit Red Wings need to follow the rules.

Your post proves to be unrealistic and unreasonable for the time. THERE WAS NO MONEY AND NO TRADE ASSETS

[crispychris]

The off season is no ware near over, we have yet to play a game in the '12-'13 season and some of us want to can the best GM in sports. We are going to do well. This is the Detroit Red Wings for gods sakes.

[esteef]

Not one bit - one down year does not tarnish an entire body of work and it's that exact mentality that has my so annoyed with the general spoiled brat mentality on here lately....

Holland has been an integral part of our brain trust for over 20 years and adapted AMAZINGLY to the salary cap era (take a look at how well all of the other previous big market clubs have done since this was implemented) and has brought us (or been part of) 4 Stanley cups, 21 straight playoff appearances (might I mind you the longest streak in PROFESSIONAL SPORTS HISTORY), countless division titles and most importantly, a chance to win it all every year... that is damn near impossible in today's sports landscape, and I guarantee 29 other clubs would KILL to have such a horrible problem on their hands...

Even if we miss the playoffs this year (which I don't think we will), Holland will re-tool and put us back within Stanley Cup contention in no time, and when we're a perennial favorite again, win even MORE cups and titles under his reign, the people with this mentality will still be waiting for the team to have ONE year that's down again, so they can yell "fire him"... It's laughable...

Might I remind everyone that during his tenure we've also recovered from unexpectedly losing Konstantinov (a perennial Norris hopeful), unexpectedly losing Jiri Fischer(who was well on his way to being one of the premier big dmen in the league), adapting to a salary cap era AND now, he is losing the best (arguably) defenseman of all time and Holland WILL, as always, adapt to this... just because he didn't pull a rabbit out of his ass, when nothing was available right now, doesn't make him less capable and NOT chasing after marginal players to fill a hole they can't anyway, IS what makes him even better...

I am not commenting on this topic any further because it's like screaming at the deaf and if those who disagree can't understand all these points and take them for what they are, I don't know what else to say... As I said before, everyone has the right to be upset this off-season hasn't gone as planned, but COME ON.

No one's questioning Kenny's entire resume, just his recent performance over the last couple years. If Kenny was the awesome GM you claim we wouldn't be in this position. And again you keep harping on THIS offseason, like it's the only one in question. Pay attention dood.

esteef

[esteef]

Well considering DRWs were up against the cap and would need to shed salary, no quality FA available, they would need to trade. Who did you want thme to trade? Kronwall? Datsyuk? Or a package of Datsyuk AND Helm + picks?

It's one thing to say "Holland knew this for four years", it's another thing keeping this team in contention under the cap world with little to no assets to trade.

Again, people should have realistic expectations.... after all, this is a salary cap world and even the Detroit Red Wings need to follow the rules.

Your post proves to be unrealistic and unreasonable for the time. THERE WAS NO MONEY AND NO TRADE ASSETS

Yeah dude, trade Datsyuk and Kronwall and Zetterberg and Helm and some picks. Your ridiculous defense of Holland no matter the circumstance is getting dumber and dumber. I wish I had a job where I could just throw my hands up and say "I can't do anything" and everyone would praise me. What a f***in' load.

esteef