61 replies to this topic

[haroldsnepsts]

Our F and D S*** the B.

The really sad/funny/painful thing is, shooting from the perimeter was not an altogether terrible strategy, since Rinne gift-wrapped about 4,000 glorious rebound opportunities for us. Somehow, though, we failed to get to any and all of them (give or take a couple). Absolutely ludicrous.

He definitely left a lot of juicy rebounds. His defense did a great job covering for him and the Wings were unwilling or unable to crash the net to get a stick on them.

[Johnz96]

I agree, Howard is good but he hasn't been good enough to give us an advantage in really right playoff series.

He was great in the 2011 playoffs. But that's what happens with goalies they get hot, they got cold and most of the time they play as well they usually do. Howard was a little less than his usual and Rinne was hot

[StormJH1]

Our F and D S*** the B.

The really sad/funny/painful thing is, shooting from the perimeter was not an altogether terrible strategy, since Rinne gift-wrapped about 4,000 glorious rebound opportunities for us. Somehow, though, we failed to get to any and all of them (give or take a couple). Absolutely ludicrous.

I think that our perimeter offense has been the problem in the playoffs for years. Yes, puck control and a shot advantage are useful in the aggregate in generating success. But the biggest difference now versus even in 1997 is the increase in blocked shots. It isnt even the same game anymore. The Wings set everything up from the point, and in the Playoffs, teams are more organized and motivated to shut down those shots. Maybe the loss of Lidstrom will have force us to scheme around getting to the net instead of setting us up for failure.


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[Johnz96]

I've said this a million times, but other than beating Bryzgalov, Howard hasn't won a playoff series yet. And we know how bad Bryzgalov is in the playoffs.

At the same time, the difference in the Nashville series was "mistakes". Most of the goals Nashville got were because of turnovers the Wings defense made behind the net, and the puck was quickly thrown out front to an open man for a goal. We didn't have any chances like that on the other side of the ice. The laziness of Brad Stuart was especially bad in the series.

They had a few lucky bounces too and we didn't but if Howard was as good as Rinne and Rinne as good as Howard we probably would have swept the series

[Dabura]

They had a few lucky bounces too and we didn't but if Howard was as good as Rinne and Rinne as good as Howard we probably would have swept the series

No.

Rinne's not even all that much better than Howard. He's the size of an elephant, and we were shooting from the perimeter.

[luvmnger]

we have been missing a pure goal scorer since hossa. drake's enthusiasm drove the team to the cup in 08, hossa excitement drove to 09....since then...blah.

the suter/parise would have drove them this year...but....

the cornerstone to this teams success is motivation.

97 40 year drought...macarty etc...
98 konstantinov
02 hull/hasek ..etc..
08 drake
09 hossa
13 ????? this is the question holland needs to ask himself. (pssst. the answer is doan)

but this alone wont do it....we need cohesive pieces ala rouse/murphy to drive the D and a pure scorer (semin) to hit the timely goal.


my fix...sign doan & semin

trade for enstrom or yandle

lose emmerton/kindl/tatar/mursak and picks along with either franzen or fillipula ( those 2 hurt, but you have to give..eh?)

trade macdonald for a pick
sign brunnstrom for another 2 way.

long shot wish...evander kane may not want to return to winnipeg (rfa)

[Johnz96]

This is exactly how I remember it. The quality of chances the Red Wings had offensively were very limited. Nashville was very good at keeping Detroit to the perimeter and blocking shots. And yes, the team then had a bunch of defensive lapses themselves. Howard definitely wasn't the reason Detroit lost the series.

I wasn't saying that but Rinne was the main reason the Preds won

[hooon]

Goaltending is waay waaay down on the list of reasons why we the Wings lost that series.

[luvmnger]

sorry got off topic a bit....we lost the nashville series due to lack of motivation player (helm) and lack of pure sniper. 1.8 goals do not win a f**king thing.

sure.. a soft goal here and there happens.....a defensive lapse happens....but no one scores....that is unacceptable.

this season...if the ga is expected to rise...then the gf better get addressed.

[Johnz96]

Our F and D S*** the B.

The really sad/funny/painful thing is, shooting from the perimeter was not an altogether terrible strategy, since Rinne gift-wrapped about 4,000 glorious rebound opportunities for us. Somehow, though, we failed to get to any and all of them (give or take a couple). Absolutely ludicrous.

That is why I think we really need a power forward and none were available this year (maybe Doan if he doesn't stay in Phoenix but not for 7.5 for 4 years). They were also more physical than the Wings

I think that our perimeter offense has been the problem in the playoffs for years. Yes, puck control and a shot advantage are useful in the aggregate in generating success. But the biggest difference now versus even in 1997 is the increase in blocked shots. It isnt even the same game anymore. The Wings set everything up from the point, and in the Playoffs, teams are more organized and motivated to shut down those shots. Maybe the loss of Lidstrom will have force us to scheme around getting to the net instead of setting us up for failure.


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A good power forward would help

[Heaten]

I seem to remember Stuart and Lidstrom were both extremely underwhelming. I'm thinking Lidstrom played a year longer than he should have. As for offense, nobody was getting in the dirty areas to score and the team seemed to have no energy. I think DRWs seriously missed Helm.

Edited by Heaten, 15 July 2012 - 01:32 PM.

[haroldsnepsts]

I seem to remember Stuart and Lidstrom were both extremely underwhelming. I'm thinking Lidstrom played a year longer than he should have. As for offense, nobody was getting in the dirty areas to score and the team seemed to have no energy. I think DRWs seriously missed Helm.

I agree Stuart was underwhelming. Playoffs are usually when he elevates his game.

As for Lidstrom though, you have to remember he had a hairline fracture in his ankle that was hindering his play. He wouldn't even face it towards the shooter at the point, hence no pk time.

[Johnz96]

Imagine how indignant people here would be if they could say we haven't won a Cup in more than decade and other than going to the SCF in 09 we have only won only 2 playoff series in the last 5 years (winning 5 series in 5 years is still a lot better than most teams)


Goaltending WAS the biggest difference, they were also more physical but other than that we were as good or better in every other regard.
Most of you who disagree would have said the same s*** of the 08 series against the Preds had we not replaced Hasek with Osgood

Your opinions are tainted by the end result

Edited by Johnz96, 15 July 2012 - 01:39 PM.

[predmonkee]

Had pekka been hung out to dry the way Howard was, he would not have looked so good. Having weber/suter in front of him 30 minutes every game makes pekka look very good. Huge preds fan, I love pekka but having watched every game, pekka is just a part of a very good defensive system that just happened to have the best D pair in the league. Plus all the intangibles were there for Nashville in that series, preds were pumped to have the wings coming in at a time when all the momentum favored the preds. It was a buzz saw for Detroit. The intensity with the preds players, coaches, fans was there. Nashville's letdown in round 2 was a mere formality. Saw it coming before round 1 was over.
In no way was Howard the reason

[Carman]

Had pekka been hung out to dry the way Howard was, he would not have looked so good. Having weber/suter in front of him 30 minutes every game makes pekka look very good. Huge preds fan, I love pekka but having watched every game, pekka is just a part of a very good defensive system that just happened to have the best D pair in the league. Plus all the intangibles were there for Nashville in that series, preds were pumped to have the wings coming in at a time when all the momentum favored the preds. It was a buzz saw for Detroit. The intensity with the preds players, coaches, fans was there. Nashville's letdown in round 2 was a mere formality. Saw it coming before round 1 was over.
In no way was Howard the reason

Yep, goalies are often times are only as good as the defense in front.

Phoenix is a good example, Bryzgalov was much better there than in Philly, and Mike Smith was able to step in and put up amazing numbers.
Minnesota - Backstrom's numbers were much better when they played a much more conservative defensive system.
Pittsburgh - Fleury has never been great in my mind, but Pittsburgh has had much better defenses than they did last season.

Howard is the type of goalie you really like in the salary cap era, he's not going elite money, but will put up top 5 numbers when playing in front of a good defense(First half of last year and rookie season)

[GoalieManPat]

Howard started the All Star game and was a Vezina candidate until the injury bug got him yet hes the biggest difference between the two teams? After 20 years of blaming goalies you would think the fan base would smarten up and not always blame the goalie but alas most are still stupid. The biggest difference is the likes of Bertuzzi and Cleary having to pull a top 6 point production and a 4th line that is completely useless. Of course it couldn't have been one most prone defenses we've seen to lapses in many years. Sure it must be the goalie. You switch Rinne for Howard and I would put money down Nashville still takes the series. Rinne only had to stop shots from the outside and could kick juicy rebounds all series as the Wings never went to the net hard. Howard had guys in his face all series long. Look how Nashville fared when they had to play a team that drove the net. Rinne was exposed. But of course goal-tending is the biggest difference. The OP fails.

[Shaman464]

If it hasn't been pointed out, the difference in the series was lack of goal scoring depth. The top 4 forwards on the Wings were pretty much canceled out and the rest of the forwards couldn't put a beach ball through a barn door.

[Johnz96]

Howard started the All Star game and was a Vezina candidate until the injury bug got him yet hes the biggest difference between the two teams? After 20 years of blaming goalies you would think the fan base would smarten up and not always blame the goalie but alas most are still stupid. The biggest difference is the likes of Bertuzzi and Cleary having to pull a top 6 point production and a 4th line that is completely useless. Of course it couldn't have been one most prone defenses we've seen to lapses in many years. Sure it must be the goalie. You switch Rinne for Howard and I would put money down Nashville still takes the series. Rinne only had to stop shots from the outside and could kick juicy rebounds all series as the Wings never went to the net hard. Howard had guys in his face all series long. Look how Nashville fared when they had to play a team that drove the net. Rinne was exposed. But of course goal-tending is the biggest difference. The OP fails.

First of all I'm not blaming Howard. But Howard didn't play as good as he normally does and Rinne was even better than he normally is.
That's the nature of goaltending sometimes they're hot, sometimes they're not as good as usual and most often they are as good as they are, I guess you can say that all for positions but with goalies there is even more variance.
if Howard played as well as he did at the beginning of the season or as well as he did in the 10-11 playoffs I have no doubt we would have won even though Rinne was as hot as he was.
We did have trouble getting to rebounds a good power forward would have made a world of difference there

[Shaman464]

First of all I'm not blaming Howard. But Howard didn't play as good as he normally does and Rinne was even better than he normally is.
That's the nature of goaltending sometimes they're hot, sometimes they're not as good as usual and most often they are as good as they are, I guess you can say that all for positions but with goalies there is even more variance.
if Howard played as well as he did at the beginning of the season or as well as he did in the 10-11 playoffs I have no doubt we would have won even though Rinne was as hot as he was.
We did have trouble getting to rebounds a good power forward would have made a world of difference there

If Howard played as well as Rinne did with the lack of scoring they would still be playing game one right now.

[Johnz96]

I seem to remember Stuart and Lidstrom were both extremely underwhelming. I'm thinking Lidstrom played a year longer than he should have. As for offense, nobody was getting in the dirty areas to score and the team seemed to have no energy. I think DRWs seriously missed Helm.

I think Nick wasn't fully healed yet and Stuart's mind was elsewhere So Smith and Kindl may even be better next year in the playoffs (if there is a next year in the playoffs) and I think Quincey will be better than he was after being more used to the Wings and playing on the right