116 replies to this topic

[esteef]

Wow, I didn't see any reports with actual names or anything like that. I'm starting to think we really do lowball everyone we try to deal with. We've trying to trade a division rival for the face of the franchise and captain, and we don't even offer two roster players...unreal. How is this "one hell of an offer"?

That's one "Holland' of an offer!"

esteef

[Nightfall]

Well - the way I see it...Franzen is most likely on the decline...Fillpula will go back to being a 35 to 40 point guy...Nyquist could be a 30 pt guy - then again he could shock us all, and become a 60 to 70 pts guy.

Why not make a trade for a guy who'll ride on Datyuk's wing, and possibly get 40 plus goals, and 80 plus pts?

To me it's high risk - high reward.

You are right in that it is high risk, and for a winger mind you. I think that price is too steep, especially with the 1st rounder added in too which is what you didn't discuss.

Would you make that trade? I wouldn't.

That's what the reports say.

Link? Source?

I haven't read a single report on what was offered. It certainly would be nice to hear something credible before we pass judgement.

Otherwise, I heard from "a source" that he offered Dats, Zetterberg, and Franzen for Nash and they rejected.

[Dabura]

Bring on Bobby Ryan.

[kipwinger]

That's one "Holland' of an offer!"

esteef

I wonder what our management expected to have happen when they laid down that offer. You think they really anticipated that Howson, who's likely heard ten other offers that were as good or better (and turned them all down), was going to jump at it because he suddenly realized what a fool he's been?

[StormJH1]

Talk about pessimistic.

Franzen is only 32. Why would you think that a 32 year old is on the decline.?

Fillpula is 28 and has just had his best year but you think that he is going to drop from 66 points to 35-40 which is a 40-53% decline. Why do you expect such a huge decline?

Obviously you are not looking at this objectively.

Age 32 IS around the time a player would start to decline. It's not fair to look at players for comparison that played over the 80's and 90's (like Yzerman) because the goaltending and defensive changes after around '91-'93 make those two eras statistically incomparable. But you'd be hard pressed to find a player (especially large, heavy power forwards) whose numbers didn't start to tail off around that age. Keith Tkachuk's did. So did John LeClair's. And Franzen has had significant knee issues in the past and it's not like those are just going to go away.

I'm not saying Franzen is terrible and we should just cut him (Well, trade maybe). But he'll be 33 in December. And it's infinitely more likely he becomes a 25 goal scorer than we see him blow up for 35-40.

Filppula is in the midst of his peak years, and I could see him improving as his role continues to grow. But ability-wise, I don't feel like there's a "next level" from him we haven't seen yet. If you think about players like Draper and Helm, people have always felt that they would improve later in their careers after their skills caught up to their pure athletic ability. But except for one or two years from Draper where he was briefly thought of as a Top 6 forward, that wasn't really the case.

[Dabura]

Wait, do we know the actual offer?

[pucktividi]

Wow, I didn't see any reports with actual names or anything like that. I'm starting to think we really do lowball everyone we try to deal with. We've trying to trade a division rival for the face of the franchise and captain, and we don't even offer two roster players...unreal. How is this "one hell of an offer"?

Usually agree with your posts,but not this time.Franzen might be lazy and floater at times,but he's still 30 goals scorer with under $4mil cap,our prospects poll is among the best in the league and Kenny's offer is the best offer they got so far.

That's one "Holland' of an offer!"

esteef

lol

[kipwinger]

Wait, do we know the actual offer?

Well someone was saying it was Franzen, prospect, pick...but hasn't felt it necessary to verify that with some evidence. That was what I was responding to, but it could be total bulls***.

[F.Michael]

You are right in that it is high risk, and for a winger mind you. I think that price is too steep, especially with the 1st rounder added in too which is what you didn't discuss.

Would you make that trade? I wouldn't.

If a 1st rounder were to be included along with Franzen/Filppula/Nyquist - then I'd say no thanks - too steep.

For all we know Nash may never hit 80 pts again, and Nyquist could be a 60 plus pts a season if given the ice time, and playing alongside either Dats, or Hank.

A deal with the Ducks for Ryan is more realistic; they'd want Filppula, and a 1st round pick...That seems reasonable.

[kipwinger]

Usually agree with your posts,but not this time.Franzen might be lazy and floater at times,but he's still 30 goals scorer with under $4mil cap,our prospects poll is among the best in the league and Kenny's offer is the best offer they got so far.





lol

The reason I think it's a bad offer is because it doesn't address the basic criteria that Howson has repeatedly said he'd need in a trade. Two roster players, plus whatever else. If I say I will take no less then three guys in a trade, and you offer me two, then you're lowballing me and I'm obviously not going to respond. In this case, it's obvious he wants two NHL ready forwards, the quality of those two forwards is the part where you negotiate, but it seems pretty set in stone in terms of the number of players he wants back.

[St. Michael (the Red Wing)]

There's no source that im seeing on what we offered besides Franzen and Flippula's names being mentioned...

[Red Crazy]

There are no reports anywhere that state what names were involved or even IF this indeed even happened. I will believe it when I see Ken Holland quoted by a good source.

[dustyrhoades9687]

Of what, all 200 of them?

Lmao so true too funny side splitting.

[RedWingsDad]

You are right in that it is high risk, and for a winger mind you. I think that price is too steep, especially with the 1st rounder added in too which is what you didn't discuss.

Would you make that trade? I wouldn't.


Link? Source?

I haven't read a single report on what was offered. It certainly would be nice to hear something credible before we pass judgement.

Otherwise, I heard from "a source" that he offered Dats, Zetterberg, and Franzen for Nash and they rejected.

For real... I am scratching my head at the lack of intellectual honesty being displayed in some of these posts. "I heard..." and "Reports say..." "....and therefore Holland blows!!!!" eh... really?

IF it's true that Holland made a "hell of a offer" ... we can probably safely assume that it was something *more* than Franzen, prospect, pick or Fillpula, prospect, pick......

Edited by RedWingsDad, 18 July 2012 - 01:12 PM.

[SwedeLundin77]

Well - Franzen these past few years has been rather inconsistent, and doesn't appear willing to get those "dirty" goals as he used to.

Prior to this past season - Filppula has been a 35 to 40 pts guy; he's not a 20 to 22 yr old kid who's on the upswing of his career; he's peaked at 28 yrs of age, and IMHO he'll return to the 35 to 40 pts per season.

I'm a realist.

No, you're a pessimist for the sole fact that you assume a 28 year old has peaked and that automatically means he declines instead of at least maintaining his production for a few more seasons at least. Had you said the latter I would consider you a realist.

Also, Franzen has all the tools to become more dominant, even at 32. It's up to him to compete, so we'll see.

[haroldsnepsts]

For real... I am scratching my head at the lack of intellectual honesty being displayed in some of these posts. "I heard..." and "Reports say..." ....and therefore Holland blows!!!! eh... really?

IF it's true that Holland made a "hell of a offer" ... we can probably safely assume that it was something *more* than Franzen, prospect, pick or Fillpula, prospect, pick......

The thing is the "helluva an offer" is an equally weak source.

The reality is we don't really know anything more than we did before. Either way, it seems extremely unlikely the Blue Jackets would deal Nash to Detroit.

[Motown4013]

If that was the offer, I don't blame Howson. Anything short of Filppula+Miller or Abdelkader+Nyguist, Tatar or Jurco(or maybe even two of them)+ draft pick(s) should be rejected if Howson wants to keep his job. He's in a tough spot. He needs to make this trade look good if he wants to keep his job.

Its unbelievable to me that this asspick still has a job. The Jackets ARE NOT going to get a "Rich Nash" in the trade...they simply have to aquire the best set of players and move on. Nash can't go back there and play again. The fans are disgruntaled and Nash is a goat. The organization hung him out to dry when they "let it slip" that he would be open to a trade ( remember it was Howson that went to Nash and asked if he would waive his NMC...not Nash initiating) This guy has already made a huge mess of the hockey team and of this situation...the best thing to do is to get some assets in return and move on. The only reason he is in a tough spot is because he put himself there.

[ogreslayer]

There are no reports anywhere that state what names were involved or even IF this indeed even happened. I will believe it when I see Ken Holland quoted by a good source.

And there's no way Holland will ever come out & confirm who was offered up. That would certainly do wonders in the locker room if he did.

[RedWingsDad]

The thing is the "helluva an offer" is an equally weak source.

"helluva an offer"... I’ve heard it both ways, and agreed... which is why I put the upper case and bold "IF". But even without some non-official source saying these things, does anyone really think Holland would have low-balled for Rick Nash knowing Howson wants the moon for him?

[joesuffP]

Well players now know Holland is making offers so finally everyone won't have such security and will have to play hard if they want to stay in Detroit. Franzen must know he's trade bait right now

Edited by joesuffP, 18 July 2012 - 01:23 PM.