475 replies to this topic

[frankgrimes]

Good timing if you're Holmgren I guess cause the new CBA is gonna s*** can the lifetime contracts and apparently get rid of front loading and make it so your cap hit is the same every year. So i've heard... and i really hope that it happens.

The NHLPA will not rollover like they did last time, Fehr will eat Bettman and his parity/wellfare/expansion attitude alive if not, we will end up with the 3 lockout under Bettman and hopefully he gets the boot finally, such an atrocious person to represent the league.

[T-Ruff]

I know this is an extreme example but let's look at the impact of 4 years of 1st round picks for teams in recent years:

Pittsburgh:
2003-- Marc-Andre Fleury (1st overall, lol)
2004-- Evgeni Malkin (2nd overall)
2005-- Sidney Crosby (1st overall)
2006-- KJordan Staal (2nd overall)

Washington:
2004-- Ovechkin (1st overall)
2005-- Pokulok (14th overall, bust)
2006-- Backstrom (4th overall)
2007-- Alzner (5th overall, bluechipper)

Chicago: (03 was Seabrook at 14th overall)
2004-- Barker (3rd overall)
2005-- Skille (7th overall)
2006-- Toews (3rd overall)
2007-- Kane (1st overall)

Edmonton: (this one isn't fair because somehow they got 3 first overalls in a row, but hey it's not too far off of Pitts' situation)
2009-- Paajarvi-Svensson (10th overall)
2010-- Hall (1st overall)
2011-- Nugent-Hopkins (1st overall)
2012-- Yakupov (1st overall)
(Edmonton's firsts in 07 and 08 were Gagner and Eberle, so even if you cut out the last two years it's a significant haul)

I know you qualified it as an extreme example but it's still a pretty pointless comparison, Philly's picks will all be 25-30 pretty much, it's more like:

Vancouver:
2009 - Jordan Schroder (22nd overall)
2010 - Quinten Howden (25th overall) [Panthers had the pick]
2011 - Nicklas Jensen (29th overall)
2012 - Brendan Guance (26th overall)

Pittsburgh
2007 - Angelo Esposito (20th overall)
2008 - Dalton Levielle (29th overall) [Atlanta had the pick]
2009 - Simon Despres (30th overall) Damn that 30th overall spot this year lol
2010 - Beau Bennet (20th overall)

etc.

[Jedi]

can the league deny the contract still? i feel like they wouldn't have allowed it to be submitted in the first place. no?

They can deny the contract, though I'm not sure that there's much room for them to do so. Since the contract doesn't carry Weber past his 40th birthday, it doesn't fall under the "Kovalchuk" clause. I suppose they could see the whole contract as some kind of attempt to massively circumvent the cap, but since the huge signing bonuses count against the cap, I don't think they'd be able to justify that.

[Matt]

NHL bailout. If Nashville lose Weber, they might as well fold. If NHL loses Coyotes and Predators, then that's loss of NHL revenue, no? Would it be in the leagues best interest to bailout Nashville financially if they can't afford their franchise player?

You cannot be serious with this, can you? You do realize that even suggesting this would be paramount to destroying the competitive integrity of the league when the league office steps in to fill the coffers of another millionaire owner just so he can afford a franchise player when it is the fault of his own club's management to mishandle said player and leave him open to be poached by other club well within the rules everyone agreed upon?

We're not talking about "bailing out" an entire franchise -- you're talking about a singular player. This whole argument as absurd on so many levels it's ridiculous.

[Heaten]

IF Detroit got Weber there is no way they would be a bottom feeder team to collect those high round picks, so your point is null, look at how terrible some of our first round picks have been, McCollum is Manny Legacy 2.0, Sheahan has underachieved since being drafted, Kindl is playing like trash, the only one we have that is decent is Smith, and Weber>>>>>>>>>>>>Smith.

McCollum wishes he was a Legacy 2.0. He's a bust. Sheahan is going to be a legit NHLer and like many powerforwards, will likely be a late bloomer. Kindl looked pretty damn solid when he got top 4 minutes last year when Lidstrom missed time with an injury. He's only going to get better... and I'm not ruling out he'll be a top 4 someday.

either way, none of this matters because Nashville would match if Detroit put an offersheet in one Weber.

[Z Winged Dangler]

The NHLPA will not rollover like they did last time, Fehr will eat Bettman and his parity/wellfare/expansion attitude alive if not, we will end up with the 3 lockout under Bettman and hopefully he gets the boot finally, such an atrocious person to represent the league.

I agree with both of your statements, but just in case they limit the years on contracts and squash front loading, it's a good move by Holmgren. Poile may not be able to match the contract cause of the amount front loaded, it may bankrupt the Preds....lol at the Preds. With only Klein as the Preds good Dman left, we'll see just how good Rinne is when guys on the other teams walk right down the middle of the ice.

[Heaten]

You cannot be serious with this, can you? You do realize that even suggesting this would be paramount to destroying the competitive integrity of the league when the league office steps in to fill the coffers of another millionaire owner just so he can afford a franchise player when it is the fault of his own club's management to mishandle said player and leave him open to be poached by other club well within the rules everyone agreed upon?

We're not talking about "bailing out" an entire franchise -- you're talking about a singular player. This whole argument as absurd on so many levels it's ridiculous.

Your first mistake is confusing a question with an 'argument'. You make valid points and I accept your reasoning... no reason to get all pissy about it. Need a tampon?

[SwedeLundin77]

Three positives if he ends up in Philly....

1. Nashville gets weaker overall
2. He goes to the Eastern Conference
3. Holland was in on trade conversations with Nashville - the naysayers who think he's sitting on his hands can stop whining.

Your first mistake is confusing a question with an 'argument'. You make valid points and I accept your reasoning... no reason to get all pissy about it. Need a tampon?

Careful man.. you're going to get DAS BOOT!

[Shaman464]

McCollum wishes he was a Legacy 2.0. He's a bust. Sheahan is going to be a legit NHLer and like many powerforwards, will likely be a late bloomer. Kindl looked pretty damn solid when he got top 4 minutes last year when Lidstrom missed time with an injury. He's only going to get better... and I'm not ruling out he'll be a top 4 someday.

either way, none of this matters because Nashville would match if Detroit put an offersheet in one Weber.

Again as I have pointed out, Polie could want to match, but if you knew anything about Nashville's ownership you'd know why they keep losing their stars. Their ownership can't/won't pay that much for a player, there is no way if the Wings made this offer, or an offer a little higher that the Preds COULD match it.

[SwedeLundin77]

Again as I have pointed out, Polie could want to match, but if you knew anything about Nashville's ownership you'd know why they keep losing their stars. Their ownership can't/won't pay that much for a player, there is no way if the Wings made this offer, or an offer a little higher that the Preds COULD match it.

But the Wings wouldn't make this offer... having two long term contracts already on the books, it's not smart business.

They did the smart thing and tried to trade for Weber.. then they'd solve the logjam up front and signed him on their terms.

Well if Holland was looking to trade for Weber, I don't think it's too much of a stretch to think he'll turn his attention to the following potential trade options:

1. Yandle
2. Bouwmeester
3. Boyle
4. Murray

Any others I missed?

[Jedi]

3. Holland was in on trade conversations with Nashville - the naysayers who think he's sitting on his hands can stop whining.

True, but he didn't actually get the trade done, so therefore he must be a terrible GM who sits on his ass-and-or-hands, simply because he couldn't convince the Preds to trade their franchise defenseman to their greatest rival who just happens to be in the same division*. Gosh, I mean, you can get it done in NHL '12, so what the hell is the holdup here, Kenny?

Careful man.. you're going to get DAS BOOT!

You get a submarine if you insult Matt? Hell, I'm a mod here and even I didn't know that...





*for more information on this subject, please search "Rick Nash".

[Shaman464]

But the Wings wouldn't make this offer... having two long term contracts already on the books, it's not smart business.

They did the smart thing and tried to trade for Weber.. then they'd solve the logjam up front and signed him on their terms.

So what if they have two long term contracts? They don't have a #1 or #2 D-man, they have an amazing #3 D-man, 2 guys who are 3-4 D-men, an over paid #5 d-man and 2 kids, one who has been mediocre, the second who has yet to prove anything as a top 4 D-man in the NHL. In the league today you don't get a #1 d-man without giving them a lengthy contract. If they don't gamble on a player that fills a massive hole on the roster, they should fully expect to be the next Calgary Flames.

[Diluvian04]

I wonder if the Preds match the offer and then cut off trade talks with the Flyers. Can you imagine if the preds then trade him to a rival of the Flyers?
Does anyone happen to know if Weber can recieve more than 1 offer from other teams?

[Shaman464]

I wonder if the Preds match the offer and then cut off trade talks with the Flyers. Can you imagine if the preds then trade him to a rival of the Flyers?
Does anyone happen to know if Weber can recieve more than 1 offer from other teams?

Can't trade him for 1 year after the inking date, so, they would be on the hook for a lot of cash they seem unwilling to pay, so don't count on that.

[Jedi]

I wonder if the Preds match the offer and then cut off trade talks with the Flyers. Can you imagine if the preds then trade him to a rival of the Flyers?
Does anyone happen to know if Weber can recieve more than 1 offer from other teams?

If Nashville matches the offer sheet, they are not allowed to trade Weber for 1 year. So, while they could end up trading him to a division rival of Philly, it wouldn't happen until 2013-14 at the earliest.

Also, since Weber has already signed the offer sheet, he cannot field offers from any other team. He will either play in Philly or Nashville next season, period.

[StormJH1]

This sucks. Sucks because PHI did what I said we should do all along, and sucks because it's at a number I'm not sure we would have even agreed to pay. I wanted Weber.


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[turbowhistle86]

If Weber walks and the oweners don't do a front loaded deal, which I'm sure they wont, then I would fire the GM and ownership.

Just who do you enlist in firing a team's ownership?

[Matt]

Your first mistake is confusing a question with an 'argument'. You make valid points and I accept your reasoning... no reason to get all pissy about it. Need a tampon?

Of course they're "valid" -- how would they not be? On what planet is it allowed where a professional sports league office hands out money to small-market teams just so they can keep a specific player? It's just a downright silly suggestion. They get what they get from revenue sharing, and that's it. No special favors for specific situations.

As an aside, your second mistake (the first being the ridiculous post that started the dialog) is to not be fully aware of the definitions of "argument". For your education: http://dictionary.re...browse/argument (specifically, points #2 and #3). No one is getting "pissy" here, but if that's the road you wish to travel down it would appear the only tampon present here is wedged between your ears.

Oh, and one of the benefits of me being around the forums more often now is that I can sniff out previously banned members who sign up under different usernames. So, in this case, should I call you "MrSandman"? Or "MrSandmann"? Nevermind, you can't answer that now.



Keep the dialog on topic henceforth.

[brandon27]

14 years? Ridiculous. Revisions to the CBA can't come soon enough. Too bad alot of the damage is already done with 3 premiere players getting ridiculous deals this year, and several others seasons past...

[Diluvian04]

Can't trade him for 1 year after the inking date, so, they would be on the hook for a lot of cash they seem unwilling to pay, so don't count on that.

What about if say the Preds trade their rights to Weber to a different team within the 7 days? The CBA is very confusing but I would imagine there has to be some sort of loophole like that.