475 replies to this topic

[predmonkee]

You being a Preds fan, what is going on that we don't know about that is making these high quality players want to leave? I mean Nashville just came off the best playoff run had in franchise history and Rinne is solid in net.

I don't get it, the fanbase there seems solid. Poile must be a real *******.

Nashville lost players in the past due to money and ownership issues. It is a different situation now. Suter chose to leave because he wanted to play with Parise and be closer to home. There's nothing wrong with Nashville. This idea that Nashville is in a rebuilding stage just because suter left is retarded. Radulov wasn't welcome anymore and they chose not to keep A Kostytsin. The team is still very solid, even more so when Poile matches philly's contract for weber.

The comments that weber's agent made were his agent's, not weber's. Weber signed it so he could gaurentee himself a monster payday. He would have been an idiot not to. If he wanted out of Nashville like everyone here seems to think, then there is no way he signs that offer. I've known Poile for several years an he is one of the most diligent people you will ever meet, that is why he didn't immediately match the offer. I can't stress this enough, this is not the same ownership group from the past. The offer will be matched and Weber will be a pred.

[predmonkee]

Wow, truth hurts, eh? You're in enemy territory - please tread more respectfully.

If Poile ponies up and matches, yay for the fans. However, the Preds will have one very expensive, sulky defenseman on their hands. It's a lose/lose for Nashville.

Oh, and it's "you're."


The signing bonus isn't subject to the possible lowering of the cap, which would affect his salary. He gets the 13 mil regardless.

I'm not being disrespectful whatsoever. In fact I've shown nothing but respect on this board and in every encounter I've had with wings fans my entire life.
As for being stuck with a "sulky" defenseman, you'd give your left nut to have him so keep your tears off the board. I know it sucks missing out in him after you had such high hopes.

[dirtydangles]

Why is Predmonkee here? I'd be trolling Flyers boards if I was him. Really though, you have nothing to prove to us. You guys had success over us in the playoffs, it hurt, unfortunately there is economic instability in Nsh, its tough to see this happen to a successful team in one offseason. I have nothing against you at all, its just futile to come in here and argue with wings fans. Nobody is right until we see what happens with the offer sheet.

[Krayzie_Bone]

Call me crazy but I feel bad for the Preds.

[Yzerman191]

Am I the only one who actually feels bad for the Predators in all of this? They finally get a cup contending team and it's dismantled in a single offseason.This is a lose-lose situation for Nashville - they'll lose a lot of fans if they don't match the offer sheet, and they risk financial peril/locking up too much money in one player if they do match. Either way, this is a hard hit financially for Nashville.

How this contract is valid is beyond me. The entire purpose of the CBA and NHL salary cap was to allow small market teams to compete with the larger market teams. The way this deal is structured (being so heavily front-loaded) basically allows the large market teams to beat out the small market teams for any free agent they want to pursue. I'd be worried this could start a precedent, but they'll probably address it in the next CBA in the aftermath of this offseason.

[Crymson]

The only "balls to the wall" signing we had in 2008 was Dallas Drake. Wait, that was a huge signing? Point is that you don't need to make those kinds of signings to win a cup. In fact there are many teams that make those signings only to not do crap come playoff time. Otherwise, we would have won 4-6 more cups in the last 15 years when we made deals to get great players in here.

Let's not forget that he also let Calder and Lang walk in that offseason. Everyone was freaking out.

Suter and Weber both turn heel on Poile in the same offseason, Vince McMahon would be proud.

Well done.

[Nhurdi]

The signing bonus isn't subject to the possible lowering of the cap, which would affect his salary. He gets the 13 mil regardless.

I wonder if they will be addressing these signing bonuses like this in the next cba. I do think if it's not addressed it's another tactic big market teams can use to sign players from smaller market teams. I wonder if the league will approve the contract.

[St. Michael (the Red Wing)]

I do feel sorry for Nashville. Us losing Lids to retirement is bad but then Nashville losing basically both their top 2 defensmen in the same offseason. Ouch.

[Phil Lesh]

Bobby Ryan Mr Holland, Bobby Ryan

Edited by Phil Lesh, 19 July 2012 - 11:40 PM.

[predmonkee]

Why is Predmonkee here? I'd be trolling Flyers boards if I was him. Really though, you have nothing to prove to us. You guys had success over us in the playoffs, it hurt, unfortunately there is economic instability in Nsh, its tough to see this happen to a successful team in one offseason. I have nothing against you at all, its just futile to come in here and argue with wings fans. Nobody is right until we see what happens with the offer sheet.

I have no intention of arguing with anyone. I have all the respect in the world for the DRW. There are some great guys that post here and I thoroughly enjoy reading and talking hockey here. I would never rub anything in as far as the playoff win goes. Tons of respect

[Crymson]

I wonder if they will be addressing these signing bonuses like this in the next cba. I do think if it's not addressed it's another tactic big market teams can use to sign players from smaller market teams. I wonder if the league will approve the contract.

It has been mentioned that the league wants the next CBA to eliminate signing bonuses and set a limit on contract length.

[RyanBarnes!]

Hold on a sec. Weber's definitely worth 4 Detroit 1st rounders if we're talking the past. BUT with Lidstrom gone and our superstars all getting older we can't assume the future will be paved in low 20's draft positions.

Well there is no way to know either way is there, but the argument is the same nonetheless. The draft is a lottery, but Weber is a sure thing.

[FlashyG]

http://phlyinhigh.bl...-breakdown.html

First four seasons (2012-'13 through 2015-'16) $1 million per year w/ 13M signing bonus
- Next two seasons (2016-'17 through 2017-'18) $4 million per w/ 8M signing bonus
- Next four seasons (2018-'19 through 2021-'22) $6 million per
- Following year (2022-'23) $3 million per
- Last three seasons (2023-'24 through 2025-'26) $1 million per


This contract is odd, the signing bonus's i don't understand, why sign for 1 mill with a 13 mill bonus? Is there a reason for that?

The structure of the contract is to prevent Nashville from matching.

Signing bonuses have to be paid immediately, so as soon as they match they'd owe Weber 13 million, with another 1 million paid out over the course of the season. Then exactly 365 days from the time of the signing they'd owe him another 13 million. So in the first calendar year of the contract they would pay out 27 million dollars to Weber.

With the threat of a work stoppage looming, its a tough decision for a cash strapped franchise to commit 27 million in a year where they may not have any income. Then as others have mentioned, if the cap is lowered and salaries are rolled back Weber would still be owed all of his signing bonus money.

[FlashyG]

Honestly...Holland was Asst. GM when the first Balls to the Wall move was made for Shanahan, that won us Cups...he showed his Balls by acquiring Chris Chelios...and when we were too old Holland made another Balls to the Wall move by getting Hasek, Hull & Robitaille that won us Cups....He needs another Balls to the Wall trade...Bobby Ryan. He needs to stop lowballing GM's and UFA's...player want to get paid, no longer do they take a discount to play in Detroit because it's Detroit...

Holland was one of 3 GM's when they traded for Shanahan FYI. Him Develanno and Bowman were all listed as interim GM's for that season, but I agree that was a pretty ballsy move, as was dealing for Hasek and Chelios. Did you ever wonder why the Wings got the better of every one of those trades? its by refusing to overpay in a trade, he's smart enough not to give up more than he's getting just for the sake of mixing things up on his team.

I think you're overreacting on the "lowballing" to use your term when it comes to FA's as well. He didn't low-ball Suter, he didn't submit the best offer, but there is a difference between being outbid and lowballing. (besides it didn't matter what he offered, Suter and Parise were going to Minnesota regardless, they used other franchises to drive the price up that's the only reason the Wings were even involved)

I know he had discussions with Weber but it sounds like Philly signed him to an offer sheet before the Wings even formally submitted one, so I don't think you can call that a lowball either.

I agree that Holland needs to make a move this off-season, but considering the amount of players we've been linked too, and the # of trade talks he's been involved in, I think its only a matter of time before a trade is announced. I too hope its for Ryan.

[Crymson]

The structure of the contract is to prevent Nashville from matching.

Signing bonuses have to be paid immediately, so as soon as they match they'd owe Weber 13 million, with another 1 million paid out over the course of the season. Then exactly 365 days from the time of the signing they'd owe him another 13 million. So in the first calendar year of the contract they would pay out 27 million dollars to Weber.

With the threat of a work stoppage looming, its a tough decision for a cash strapped franchise to commit 27 million in a year where they may not have any income. Then as others have mentioned, if the cap is lowered and salaries are rolled back Weber would still be owed all of his signing bonus money.

It's absolutely hilarious that the CBA, which is intended to encourage parity (and the creation of which necessitated a lockout!) allows this sort of predation by richer teams on those with less money.

[RyanBarnes!]

I agree that Weber is one of the top 3 at his position, but I don't necessarily think that justifies a max deal.

You said it yourself, it was a poison pill to prevent Nashville from matching. If they offered him his market value Nashville would definitely match.

You will never land a player via offer sheet without overpaying. I'm not saying Philly made a mistake, I'm just rejecting the notion that signing someone to an offer-sheet is somehow a more prudent strategy than overpaying via trade or signing. Its all overpaying, what difference does it make which way you do it?

By your definition all players are overpaid, and that might be true in some regard, but if the market is willing to support this contract it is market value. Many GM's around the league would happily match this offer if given a chance, if the Preds can or not is a matter of Financial means, not market value.

[FlashyG]

Maybe

By your definition all players are overpaid, and that might be true in some regard, but if the market is willing to support this contract it is market value. Many GM's around the league would happily match this offer if given a chance, if the Preds can or not is a matter of Financial means, not market value.

Neither of us have any idea if other GM's would match this offer. I suspect the # that wouldn't is higher than those that would.

I don't think its his caphit that is the problem (its quite reasonable actually, I miscalculated his age at the end of his contract so his cap hit is under 8) Its the bonus money paid upfront that would cause a lot of GM's to balk.

My point is that signing someone to an offersheet is not a better or cheaper strategy than trading or signing someone as a UFC. its impossible to sign someone to an offer-sheet that won't be matched without overpaying in some form. Otherwise his former team will match every time.

[RyanBarnes!]

Maybe

Neither of us have any idea if other GM's would match this offer. I suspect the # that wouldn't is higher than those that would.

I don't think its his caphit that is the problem (its quite reasonable actually, I miscalculated his age at the end of his contract so his cap hit is under 8) Its the bonus money paid upfront that would cause a lot of GM's to balk.

My point is that signing someone to an offersheet is not a better or cheaper strategy than trading or signing someone as a UFC. its impossible to sign someone to an offer-sheet that won't be matched without overpaying in some form. Otherwise his former team will match every time.

Any GM looking for a franchise defenseman and with the financial means necessary would match this offer, I have no doubts. If by "overpaying" you mean pay more than someone else -then yes. It is like buying a house, if you buy it, this mean you have paid more than anybody else was willing to and thus by the same definition you would have "overpaid". So what I'm objecting to is really the word "overpaying", because on this board it seems to be losely tied to some imaginery figure in people's minds with no relation to the actual market. Naturally there's a premium to lure away talent like Weber, but in support of the market theory, history show that most offer sheets have been matched (the only exceptions being Gratton and Penner). In order to evaluate an asset (a house or a player) I think you must also consider what it is worth to you.

In conclusion, I agree it is not a cheaper strategy, but it could still prove to be worth it for a financially strong team. It is all about how you evaluate the talent.

[Red Wings Addict]

Not gonna lie here though... A pairing of Kronwall-Weber is quite the shiny option. Sigh, ah well.

Have fun with your market value and country music, Shea Butter.

[crispychris]

I would not want to give up 4 first rounders. The draft is the life blood of a hockey club. IF Nashville let's him walk it's their job to make the most of thoes picks. They could trade some of thoes picks as well. If they have drafted well in the past it will help them fill in the holes on their blue line. Although I must say thoes are some BIG shoes to fill. So I guess what I'm saying is I would not give up the draft picks.