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Flyers sign Weber to offer sheet: 14y/$110m ($56m 1st 4yrs)

shea weber nashville predators philadelphia flyers offer sheet

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#361 arag

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Posted 20 July 2012 - 06:26 AM

That is hockey Gods punishing Preds for beating the Red Wings in the first round.
I truly feel sorry for Preds watching their team being dismantled like that. The whole future of the team goes down the drain in a month. If Weber goes, Preds need to rebuilt.

#362 Salviaman

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Posted 20 July 2012 - 06:31 AM

The Preds will become a dead franchise if they don't match Philly.
Think for yourself. Question authority. Throughout human history as our species has faced the frightening, terrorizing fact that we do not know who we are or where we are going in this ocean of chance, it has been the authorities, the political, the religious, the educational authorities who attempted to comfort us by giving us order, rules, regulations, informing, forming in our minds their view of reality. To think for yourself you must question authority and learn how to put yourself in a state of vulnerable, open mindedness, chaotic, confused vulnerability to inform yourself.

#363 Wing Across The Pond

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Posted 20 July 2012 - 06:50 AM

Any GM looking for a franchise defenseman and with the financial means necessary would match this offer, I have no doubts. If by "overpaying" you mean pay more than someone else -then yes. It is like buying a house, if you buy it, this mean you have paid more than anybody else was willing to and thus by the same definition you would have "overpaid". So what I'm objecting to is really the word "overpaying", because on this board it seems to be losely tied to some imaginery figure in people's minds with no relation to the actual market. Naturally there's a premium to lure away talent like Weber, but in support of the market theory, history show that most offer sheets have been matched (the only exceptions being Gratton and Penner). In order to evaluate an asset (a house or a player) I think you must also consider what it is worth to you.

In conclusion, I agree it is not a cheaper strategy, but it could still prove to be worth it for a financially strong team. It is all about how you evaluate the talent.


I agree... "overpaying" requires an initial value. For example if you go to a dollar store, or a Poundland over here, and pay $1.50 or £1.50 for something, you're overpaying as the product is worth a dollar/pound. To say a player is worth a certain amount (or as you mentioned a house) is entirely subjective. They're worth what you're willing to pay. Some will think Player A is worth $3m some will think $6.5m. They're worth what they get really.

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#364 vladdy16

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Posted 20 July 2012 - 07:02 AM

I'm not being disrespectful whatsoever. In fact I've shown nothing but respect on this board and in every encounter I've had with wings fans my entire life.
As for being stuck with a "sulky" defenseman, you'd give your left nut to have him so keep your tears off the board. I know it sucks missing out in him after you had such high hopes.

You were being disrespectful in the post I previously quoted. And you're very interested in telling other people what they would give their left nut for. You know what I'd give for Weber? Your left nut. I lost interest in him long ago. And that STILL doesn't mean he wants to be in Nashville, however you want to try and misdirect the attention.
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#365 BostonBruinsDan1924

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Posted 20 July 2012 - 07:24 AM

Save your cap geek garbage for somebody else. Your wrong on every level here. Poile will match and he will be a pred for a very long time. Deal with it


Cybulski & Co@Cybulskishow
Here is our interview with Shea Weber's agent Jarrett Bousquet - http://bit.ly/MocI6a

Did you not listen to Weber's agent and what he said? "everything changed July 4th" meaing when Suter left Weber knew it was time to move on and he said he weasn't going to go through another "rebuilding" phase. Translastion he wanted out.

As for the Capgeek link the number don't lie, granted it's all a numbers game, but at the end of the day Nashville will have a very hard time matching or trying to match the offer sheet. Your team isn't turning a profite on it's investment aka your franchise is losing money every year. Remember Jim Balsillie want to buy the Preds and move them to Hamilton, OT? If Weber signs with the Flyers all's you have is Rinne with a 7yr/$49M contract. You guys have lost Suter, Radulov, Tootoo, Kostitsyn and Bouillion and you haven't bothered to replace any of those players.

Polie keeps saying the Preds will match it and retain him...if that was the case Nashville would have already inked Weber to a deal. Since that hasn't happened now Nashville is in a huge bind and are looking to see IF they can pull off a match. At the end of the day Nashville has screwed this up and he signs with the Flyers.

These are the facts of the issue and this is the reality of it all.

#366 cusimano_brothers

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Posted 20 July 2012 - 07:26 AM

The possibility exists that Nashville could lose Suter, Weber and Radulov... in the same off-season? Interesting.

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#367 stevkrause

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Posted 20 July 2012 - 07:29 AM

Gaustad has got to be kicking himself for re-signing...

All I have to say about Holland and our off-season:

Here in this thread

Here in this one as well

Here in this one too

and finally

Here


Holland is a damn good GM. period.


#368 Z Winged Dangler

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Posted 20 July 2012 - 08:03 AM

Gaustad has got to be kicking himself for re-signing...

haha....at least the preds may win some faceoffs this year. boo-yah!

"I play hockey, but I am not very good.  Can someone please tell me what it would take to sign with the Wings ? I can use a million or two."  ~ arag

 

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#369 stevkrause

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Posted 20 July 2012 - 08:06 AM

haha....at least the preds may win some faceoffs this year. boo-yah!

That's about all they're going to be winning... I hope Rinne is prepared to face 50 shots a game...

With all that said, I still think Nashville will ultimately match and keep Weber, there's too much to lose if they don't (and not just in the form of a player, but what it says to other FA, what it says about the market there, what it says about management/ownership and also, what it says about their commitment to winning)

The money will be damn near crippling to them, but they don't have a choice... especially with the new CBA coming up, they may get some reprieve from his contract, not much, as a lot of it will be protected, but SOME... they may even work in the ability to trade a player immediately after a match of an OS is made in the new CBA, so who knows...

Edited by stevkrause, 20 July 2012 - 08:08 AM.

All I have to say about Holland and our off-season:

Here in this thread

Here in this one as well

Here in this one too

and finally

Here


Holland is a damn good GM. period.


#370 turbowhistle86

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Posted 20 July 2012 - 08:14 AM

What's the over/under on Weber smashing Poile's face into his rich mahogany desk when they match the offer?

#371 BostonBruinsDan1924

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Posted 20 July 2012 - 08:38 AM

What's the over/under on Weber smashing Poile's face into his rich mahogany desk when they match the offer?


Contract negotiations penalty for 1 yr.

#372 Frozen-Man

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Posted 20 July 2012 - 08:54 AM

I truly feel sorry for Preds watching their team being dismantled like that. The whole future of the team goes down the drain in a month. If Weber goes, Preds need to rebuilt.


I agree, I was just thinking how bad does Rinne have to be feeling now.


With all that said, I still think Nashville will ultimately match and keep Weber, there's too much to lose if they don't (and not just in the form of a player, but what it says to other FA, what it says about the market there, what it says about management/ownership and also, what it says about their commitment to winning).


I think they probably will too but that is a lot of money and term to lock up in someone who obviously doesn't want to be there.

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#373 swedishconnection

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Posted 20 July 2012 - 08:55 AM

Gaustad has got to be kicking himself for re-signing...


Ooooooh *wincy face immediately before a car crash*. Perhaps he should have let the other shoes drop before agreeing. I would have rather had him than Tootoo, but Gaustad made his bed...
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#374 wingslogo19

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Posted 20 July 2012 - 09:41 AM

Rinne has got to want out now
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#375 StormJH1

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Posted 20 July 2012 - 09:50 AM

Am I the only one who actually feels bad for the Predators in all of this? They finally get a cup contending team and it's dismantled in a single offseason.This is a lose-lose situation for Nashville - they'll lose a lot of fans if they don't match the offer sheet, and they risk financial peril/locking up too much money in one player if they do match. Either way, this is a hard hit financially for Nashville.

How this contract is valid is beyond me. The entire purpose of the CBA and NHL salary cap was to allow small market teams to compete with the larger market teams. The way this deal is structured (being so heavily front-loaded) basically allows the large market teams to beat out the small market teams for any free agent they want to pursue. I'd be worried this could start a precedent, but they'll probably address it in the next CBA in the aftermath of this offseason.

Excellent post.

First, yes, I feel genuinely bad for the real Nashville fans. They may not be many in number, but it takes a lot more dedication to declare yourself a diehard hockey fan in a market like that compared to Detroit or Minnesota. The fans showed up in the Playoffs, they committed long-term to a star goaltender, and they absolutely cleaned our clocks. Now this happens...

In August of 2010, Arbitrator Richard Bloch overruled the Kovalchuk contract, even though it didn't seem too fundamentally different from several other contracts that had been signed recently. The primary offender in that agreement was the payment beyond retirement age (thru age 44), but it was also heavily front-loaded and obviously designed to circumvent the Salary Cap.

This Weber deal in the context of an RFA offer sheet really presents a whole new set of problems. In a situation where you have one strong financial team versus a vulnerable one (PHI vs. NAS), the stronger team can really exert extreme financial pressure on the weaker team with bonuses and front-loading. The question, however, is whether this is significantly different with "poison pill" clauses, and other tactics used to give one side an advantage within the rules.

This just feels illegal to me. I'm not sure it will be overturned, since I didn't really feel there was any precedent to overturn the Kovalchuk deal in the first place. But there are other issues with this deal that take it above and beyond, and the structuring of deals has to be something they look at in a new CBA.

Rinne has got to want out now

You feel for him a bit, too. However, it was the responsibility of him and his agent to recognize that neither Weber nor Suter were signed to long-term deals, and that an expensive long-term deal for Rinne would actually make it less likely that NAS could afford to retain one or both of them. Rinne also GREATLY benefited from cashing in during a time where he had two of the NHL's best young defensemen playing in front of him. If he was on a crap team posting a 2.50 GAA, there's no way he gets that kind of deal.

#376 BostonBruinsDan1924

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Posted 20 July 2012 - 09:57 AM

If Weber signs with the Flyers, the top pairing, for Nashville, is Kevin Klein and Roman Josi. I hope Rinne is ready to get peppered with 50+ shots.

#377 Frozen-Man

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Posted 20 July 2012 - 10:12 AM

Bettman has got to be unhappy about this as well. Wonder if he'll exert some pressure to invalidate the contract in an effort to help his southern expansion teams.

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#378 turbowhistle86

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Posted 20 July 2012 - 10:21 AM

If Weber signs with the Flyers, the top pairing, for Nashville, is Kevin Klein and Roman Josi. I hope Rinne is ready to get peppered with 50+ shots.


I predict a Brunner hat trick if we get 50+ SOG

#379 BostonBruinsDan1924

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Posted 20 July 2012 - 10:25 AM

Bettman has got to be unhappy about this as well. Wonder if he'll exert some pressure to invalidate the contract in an effort to help his southern expansion teams.


How can Bettman "exert" some pressure on this? Look what happened to Kovalchuk and the Devils...his contract went from 17 years $102M to 15 years $100M and it was approved. Then the "Kovalchuk clasue" was born. Maybe I'm missing something on this...I don't know. If I am please let me know.

#380 BostonBruinsDan1924

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Posted 20 July 2012 - 10:31 AM

I just realized something...nobody is talking about Pronger and how his contract, in a way, affects all of this. If he retires, because of his concussion, does that fudge this deal up? Do they trade him to free up cap room? Any thought on this side note?

http://philly.sbnati...yers-concussion





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