475 replies to this topic

[Jedi]

Bettman has got to be unhappy about this as well. Wonder if he'll exert some pressure to invalidate the contract in an effort to help his southern expansion teams.

I'm not sure the league has cause to invalidate the contract, though. It's heavily frontloaded, of course, but given the precedent of previous heavily front loaded contracts (including massive signing bonuses of Parise & Suter), I don't think the league has a leg to stand on in that regard.

I just realized something...nobody is talking about Pronger and how his contract, in a way, affects all of this. If he retires, because of his concussion, does that fudge this deal up? Do they trade him to free up cap room? Any thought on this side note?

http://philly.sbnati...yers-concussion

If Pronger retires, the Flyers are still on the hook for his salary, since it was a multi-year 35+ contract. But it puts them in an interesting position with the new CBA. Will they be able to keep him buried on LTIR at no penalty, or will the new CBA prevent that? Do they buy him out if an amnesty buyout period is offered?

[Frozen-Man]

How can Bettman "exert" some pressure on this? Look what happened to Kovalchuk and the Devils...his contract went from 17 years $102M to 15 years $100M and it was approved. Then the "Kovalchuk clasue" was born. Maybe I'm missing something on this...I don't know. If I am please let me know.

I'm not sure the league has cause to invalidate the contract, though. It's heavily frontloaded, of course, but given the precedent of previous heavily front loaded contracts (including massive signing bonuses of Parise & Suter), I don't think the league has a leg to stand on in that regard.

I'm not saying that he will or even that I think he will, merely that I just think there is the possibility he might. You know he doesn't want Nashville to be decimated and relegated to a non-playoff team, they were one of his biggest southern expansion success stories. You bought up the Kovy contract, which was initially rejected by the NHL because they thought it artificially lowering the annual average value of the contract by front loading the contract excessively and extending it beyond the age they thought Kovy would continue to play. There may be some dispute as to whether or not Webber will continue to play out his contract but it is more egregiously front loaded than others (including in my opinion Parise and Suter) because the salary/bonus structure for each of the first FOUR years is over $14M and will end up in excess of $56M in the first four years - more than half of his total pay in the first 28.5% of his contract tenure. We have a saying in tax law, "pigs get fat, hogs get slaughtered" - given the fact that Bettman is predisposed (I think) to hate the deal and that it is just a little more egregious I can see him pushing (even if it is solely behind the scenes) to invalidate it.

[BostonBruinsDan1924]

WOW! This is harsh towards Polie/ownership...
http://www.thepredat...do-about-weber/

*correction Poile*

[F.Michael]

Maybe slamming Hank's noggin into the boards has had an effeect on Weber so much as to never wanting to face him again - so off to the eastern conference, and the Flyers he shall go

[Z Winged Dangler]

That's about all they're going to be winning... I hope Rinne is prepared to face 50 shots a game...

With all that said, I still think Nashville will ultimately match and keep Weber, there's too much to lose if they don't (and not just in the form of a player, but what it says to other FA, what it says about the market there, what it says about management/ownership and also, what it says about their commitment to winning)

The money will be damn near crippling to them, but they don't have a choice... especially with the new CBA coming up, they may get some reprieve from his contract, not much, as a lot of it will be protected, but SOME... they may even work in the ability to trade a player immediately after a match of an OS is made in the new CBA, so who knows...

The shots won't all be from the side boards Wings style like when Rinne had Suter and Weber in front of him. Think more Klein (actually really like this kid) and Ellis

Pretty sure Nashville as a franchise can't afford to match cause of the 50+ million in the first 4 years.

As for the picks, they will be in the high 20's for all 4 of the years that Philly would be giving up the picks. So Nashville may have a shot at the draft lottery all 4 years, but beyond that, they will most likely get picks around 5, 25, 35. While nice to have 3 picks in the top 35, to get a Weber type, you want to get more picks in the top 15 or so.

[BostonBruinsDan1924]

"The agent also told the Inquirer that Weber having former Predators teammates Scott Hartnell and Kimmo Timonen in Philadelphia made him feel "comfortable" and factored into his decision, and that he was "pretty certain" the defenseman had talked with Hartnell before deciding to sign the offer sheet."

More info coming out in Philly...he talked to former Preds players.

http://www.tennessea.../120720005/2079

[F.Michael]

"The agent also told the Inquirer that Weber having former Predators teammates Scott Hartnell and Kimmo Timonen in Philadelphia made him feel "comfortable" and factored into his decision, and that he was "pretty certain" the defenseman had talked with Hartnell before deciding to sign the offer sheet."

More info coming out in Philly...he talked to former Preds players.

http://www.tennessea.../120720005/2079

Somebody please correct me if I'm wrong...

Wasn't there some "shady" dealings 4, or 5 seasons ago with the Preds/Flyers (didn't it involve Forsberg)?

Maybe this is karma biting the Preds in the a$$.

[BostonBruinsDan1924]

Interesting...
http://www.mcsorleys...-circumvention/

[WingsAlways]

Interesting...
http://www.mcsorleys...-circumvention/

More like circumcision of the CBA...

[Dabura]

So wait, is he officially a Flyer?

[cusimano_brothers]

Genius!

[Jedi]

So wait, is he officially a Flyer?

I haven't seen any reports that Nashville is declining the offer sheet. Though, the way it always seems to work out for me, they probably declined the sheet 30 seconds ago, and it's just now breaking on Twitter...




*goes to search twitter, just to be sure*

[cusimano_brothers]

Six days (or less) and counting.

Edited by cusimano_brothers, 20 July 2012 - 12:19 PM.

[BostonBruinsDan1924]

Shea Weber CBA offer sheet compensation CHEAT SHEET.
http://www.mcsorleys...on-cheat-sheet/

[StormJH1]

Shea Weber CBA offer sheet compensation CHEAT SHEET.
http://www.mcsorleys...on-cheat-sheet/

Good resource. I learned two things I did not know from that: (1) That the RFA compensation (4 1st rounders is divided by 5, not 14 years in this case); (2) The 20% of the salary cap rule for compensation of any kind to a single player.

I still think that even with that limitation on front loading, Nashville is hard-pressed to match.

Also, in terms of whether they SHOULD match, people seem to overlook the fact that these players agree to sign the offer sheet with another team. (Well, Wings fans haven't, they apparently never forgave Fedorov for so doing in 1998). If you put together how strung out this process has become, the fact that they lost Suter, and Weber's desire to be courted by another team (with ex-teammates like Timonen and Hartnell now there), it sure seems like he doesn't want to play for Nashville any more. So how can you commit such a large amount of guaranteed money to a guy that doesn't want to play for you anymore?

This sucks for Nashville, and their GM can and should point to why it sucks over and over again at the CBA meetings, but I think they need to swallow this, take those 4 picks (which could provide a legit NHL starter or two in time) and move on.

[BostonBruinsDan1924]

Good resource. I learned two things I did not know from that: (1) That the RFA compensation (4 1st rounders is divided by 5, not 14 years in this case); (2) The 20% of the salary cap rule for compensation of any kind to a single player.

I still think that even with that limitation on front loading, Nashville is hard-pressed to match.

Also, in terms of whether they SHOULD match, people seem to overlook the fact that these players agree to sign the offer sheet with another team. (Well, Wings fans haven't, they apparently never forgave Fedorov for so doing in 1998). If you put together how strung out this process has become, the fact that they lost Suter, and Weber's desire to be courted by another team (with ex-teammates like Timonen and Hartnell now there), it sure seems like he doesn't want to play for Nashville any more. So how can you commit such a large amount of guaranteed money to a guy that doesn't want to play for you anymore?

This sucks for Nashville, and their GM can and should point to why it sucks over and over again at the CBA meetings, but I think they need to swallow this, take those 4 picks (which could provide a legit NHL starter or two in time) and move on.

This is another great resource too.
http://www.mcsorleys...-circumvention/

[StormJH1]

This is another great resource too.
http://www.mcsorleys...-circumvention/

Wow, yeah! That's just blowing my mind even further. I don't understand how these "signing" bonuses spread out over many years have anything to do with signing in the first place, or how they are anything other than a circumvention of the Cap.

Also, I seem to recall that Suter and Parise's contracts had similar provisions that essentially paid $20+ million for one year of hockey (with the second bonus coming due in July 2013). The "100% rule" issue is a separate deal, but if this deal violates the "20% Upper Limit" rule, don't the Parise and Suter deals too?

Here's another question...suppose the league/arbitrator/whomever invalidates the Weber offer sheet on one of the grounds mentioned above. Does Weber then go back to RFA status where he could field other offer sheets, or does he head straight to salary arbitration with NAS then? I would think the former...

[BostonBruinsDan1924]

• Using the signing bonus mechanism to pay Weber $14MM in season one and another $13MM on 7/1/2013 has, literally, the effect of paying him $27MM in season one.
• You could argue that paying Weber $27MM between late July 2012 and July 1 2013 violates the spirit and intent of the rule that caps compensation at 20% of the Upper Limit, which, I might add, the contract exceeds by almost 200%.

This right here caught my attention. If I understand this correctly, this might be a sticking point, then again I could be wrong. They say $14.05M and if I read the numbers correctly, the contract is $14M even. Either way you dice it I don't see how Nashville can front load a deal like the Flyers have done. They really did their homework on this and stuck it to the ownership. I just can't see Nashvilles ownership mortgaging the team or their future just to match and retain Weber. I will say this...small market teams get F'd hard core compaired to us Original 6 franchises or any of the other top money making franchise.

Wow, yeah! That's just blowing my mind even further. I don't understand how these "signing" bonuses spread out over many years have anything to do with signing in the first place, or how they are anything other than a circumvention of the Cap.

Also, I seem to recall that Suter and Parise's contracts had similar provisions that essentially paid $20+ million for one year of hockey (with the second bonus coming due in July 2013). The "100% rule" issue is a separate deal, but if this deal violates the "20% Upper Limit" rule, don't the Parise and Suter deals too?

Here's another question...suppose the league/arbitrator/whomever invalidates the Weber offer sheet on one of the grounds mentioned above. Does Weber then go back to RFA status where he could field other offer sheets, or does he head straight to salary arbitration with NAS then? I would think the former...

Weber played the arbitration card last year and was awarded the $7.5M vs Nashville offering $4.75M. I don't think he can play that card again. I could be wrong.

[chuckdee]

Collusion ....

[predmonkee]

Cybulski & Co@Cybulskishow
Here is our interview with Shea Weber's agent Jarrett Bousquet - http://bit.ly/MocI6a

Did you not listen to Weber's agent and what he said? "everything changed July 4th" meaing when Suter left Weber knew it was time to move on and he said he weasn't going to go through another "rebuilding" phase. Translastion he wanted out.

As for the Capgeek link the number don't lie, granted it's all a numbers game, but at the end of the day Nashville will have a very hard time matching or trying to match the offer sheet. Your team isn't turning a profite on it's investment aka your franchise is losing money every year. Remember Jim Balsillie want to buy the Preds and move them to Hamilton, OT? If Weber signs with the Flyers all's you have is Rinne with a 7yr/$49M contract. You guys have lost Suter, Radulov, Tootoo, Kostitsyn and Bouillion and you haven't bothered to replace any of those players.

Polie keeps saying the Preds will match it and retain him...if that was the case Nashville would have already inked Weber to a deal. Since that hasn'thappened now Nashville is in a huge bind and are looking to see IF they can pull off a match. At the end of the day Nashville has screwed this up and he signs with the Flyers.

These are the facts of the issue and this is the reality of it all.

Of course I heard what his agent said. He just signed an offer sheet with Philly so what did you expect him to say? You seem to disregard his comments later on when he said that Shea would be more than professional in honoring the deal should Nashville match. In the end, I could care less what his agent says, its all posturing. I've yet to hear weber himself say he wants out of Nashville, and i don't expect I ever will.

You keep saying Nashville can't match the offer, when you don't know a thing about the ownership group in place. I could care less about what capgeek says. As far as jimmy blackberry goes, he's tried to buy how many teams in the last decade? Not just Nashville. Besides, it's completely irrelevant because It was not the same ownership in place that is there now.

And as far as radulov, boullion, Kostytsin, and Tootoo go, the preds elected to let every one of those guys walk. We didn't lose them, we told them to find work elsewhere. Those are facts!

As for poile not immediately matching the offer, he is a very diligent man. He is the last person you will ever see make a rash decision. Especially a 110 million dollar decision. Easy for you to say he should have matched it yesterday when it's not your 110 million your spending.

Now those are facts