475 replies to this topic

[FlashyG]

All depends on how much he signs for. If over $8.41m, it would be 4 1st rounders. Figure it will be in the next tier down which would be 2 1st rounders, a 2nd, & a 3rd.


And how's that been working out for the Flyers? I would say it hasn't been responsible for winning a Cup, but his moves did manage to win one in LA.

If the contract is worth more than 42 million, the compensation will be 4, 1st round picks. The CBA has a clause that is there to prevent long term offer sheets. The maximum # of years you can divide the contract by (for compensation purposes) is 5,

So even if its only 100 million, that would make it 100/5 = 20 million which is way higher than the 8.41 threshold for the 4, 1sts.

The problem is Holland is getting burned by being too conservative with his moves, and in doing so he's letting the team decline instead of taking a risk and possibly making a wrong move. There's an old saying 'Action is always better than inaction'.

As much as I wanted Weber, Holland was right not to offer sheet him. It makes sense for Holmgren to do it, because if his offer is matched he doesn't have to face Weber more than twice a season.

If Holland offer sheeted him and Nashville matched, we essentially negotiated a life-time contract for a division rival. It made more sense to trade for him and then negotiate a deal, and it appears Holland was one of the major players in talks.

There is a silver lining to all of this though, if Nashville doesn't match, a division rival's defence has been decimated even worse than ours, and Philly will be in a weird situation where they can no longer keep Pronger on LTI (you can't replace a player on Injury reserve with a player who makes more money). That will put them temporarily over the salary cap, allowing us to make an offer on one of their defenceman to shore up our top pairings.

[jroc86]

If Weber ends up in Philly and gets the C does he assume the kiss of death Lindros, Primeau, and Pronger all have with careers ended via concussions? Hes already had 2 ... one or two more good bell ringers and he could be counting to potatoe as well. Just saying.

[Bring Back The Bruise Bros]

If ends up with the Flyers, you think he'll slam Crosby's head into the boards?

Not if he doesn't wanna get banned from the NHL for life, no.

[IllinoisRedWingsFan]

Okay so a friend Facebook Messaged with this news and he said
Friend: "Look at the bright side of Weber going to the Flyers possibly"
Me: "What?"
Friend: "Chris Pronger is likely retiring."
Me: "We can only hope what a scumbag."

[pucktividi]

wtf,lol...a predator is Holmgren

I'd match it for sure and trade him to the Pens next day...if I was Poile

Edited by pucktividi, 19 July 2012 - 02:28 AM.

[Cali-Wing-Nut]

Our chances of a long term solution to our defensive issues are falling apart faster than a Made in China Card House...

Things are looking pretty damn iffy for us. That is unless we have some 16 year old prospect that makes Nicky look like a poser in comparison.

[FlashyG]

wtf,lol...a predator is Holmgren

I'd match it for sure and trade him to the Pens next day...if I were Poile

If Nashville matches they are not allowed to trade him for a calendar year.

[pucktividi]

If Nashville matches they are not allowed to trade him for a calendar year.

even better,trade him at the deadline

[Bring Back The Bruise Bros]

This place is gonna absolutely melt down tomorrow

[Shaman464]

If the contract is worth more than 42 million, the compensation will be 4, 1st round picks. The CBA has a clause that is there to prevent long term offer sheets. The maximum # of years you can divide the contract by (for compensation purposes) is 5,

So even if its only 100 million, that would make it 100/5 = 20 million which is way higher than the 8.41 threshold for the 4, 1sts.




As much as I wanted Weber, Holland was right not to offer sheet him. It makes sense for Holmgren to do it, because if his offer is matched he doesn't have to face Weber more than twice a season.

If Holland offer sheeted him and Nashville matched, we essentially negotiated a life-time contract for a division rival. It made more sense to trade for him and then negotiate a deal, and it appears Holland was one of the major players in talks.

There is a silver lining to all of this though, if Nashville doesn't match, a division rival's defence has been decimated even worse than ours, and Philly will be in a weird situation where they can no longer keep Pronger on LTI (you can't replace a player on Injury reserve with a player who makes more money). That will put them temporarily over the salary cap, allowing us to make an offer on one of their defenceman to shore up our top pairings.

Their defense isn't worth us making a run at aside from Schenn, who they wouldn't trade.

Next, even if the Preds have a terrible D without Weber, that doesn't magically make Detroit a better team, and Nashville has in the past made a lot out of a little, they have 3 very good d prospects in their system that are NHL ready.

But that post wasn't just about Weber anyway, it seems all offseason hes a day late and a dollar short, instead of making a bold move, it seems hes content with taking this team into next season come hell or high water, and that's my problem.

[Crymson]

But that post wasn't just about Weber anyway, it seems all offseason hes a day late and a dollar short, instead of making a bold move, it seems hes content with taking this team into next season come hell or high water, and that's my problem.

He WAS making a bold move in being one of the major players involved in trade talks with the Predators. Sending Weber an offer sheet would have been foolish, not bold; the Predators would have certainly matched an offer sheet from a divisional rival, and this would mean a guarantee of seeing Weber six or more times per season for the rest of his career. It would have made even less sense in light of the fact that a trade was possible.

I understand you're upset, but what you're saying makes no sense.

If they could afford to match it then good for them but at least we would have had a chance at landing him. I guess all I'm trying to say is I believe that we would have had a better chance at signing him to an offer sheet rather than trying to work out a trade. Could be wrong - just my opinion.

It indeed could be wrong. I think it is.

even better,trade him at the deadline

The trade deadline is in February. A calendar year would end in July of next season.

[Shaman464]

He WAS making a bold move in being one of the major players involved in trade talks with the Predators. Sending Weber an offer sheet would have been foolish, not bold; the Predators would have certainly matched an offer sheet from a divisional rival, and this would mean a guarantee of seeing Weber six or more times per season for the rest of his career. It would have made even less sense in light of the fact that a trade was possible.

I understand you're upset, but what you're saying makes no sense.



It indeed could be wrong. I think it is.

Its not Polie's call if they match it, rival or not, its the ownership, and that 20 million dollars Weber will be looking at next season that will dictate what they do. I could see if this were an offer south of 100 million, and less years, but the ownership of Nashville has shown time and time again they are afraid of long term financial commitments. I know you are a Ken Holland apologist, but lets be serious for a moment, we both know that Nashville has had the space to keep a lot of their stars, but they haven't, because of the tight purse strings of their ownership. And this would be a bold move, and even if it failed it would have been a good one, because they will not be able to afford other players had they matched. But it as I said every time the Wings names come up they are always off the mark and lose out.

Edited by Shaman464, 19 July 2012 - 02:43 AM.

[FlashyG]

He made significant offers to both of the top FA's available this offseason, they chose to play at home over joining the Wings. He is after the next biggest FA available and is waiting to hear back, and had preliminary talks with the #4 FA, who appears to be waiting to see what happens with Doan.

On top of all that he's had significant trade talks with Nashville for Weber, with Phoenix for Yandle, and even attempted to get Nash from Columbus.

He can't make teams trade with him if they don't want too, and paying extra just for the sake of making a major change is more likely to land us in the lottery rather than the playoffs.

I'm not sure what you're expecting, but this has been the most active Ken Holland has been in an offseason in 15 years.

Edited by FlashyG, 19 July 2012 - 02:44 AM.

[Shaman464]

He made significant offers to both of the top FA's available this offseason, they chose to play at home over joining the Wings. He is after the next biggest FA available and is waiting to hear back, and had preliminary talks with the #4 FA, who appears to be waiting to see what happens with Doan.

On top of all that he's had significant trade talks with Nashville for Weber, with Phoenix for Yandle, and even attempted to get Nash from Columbus.

He can't make teams trade with him if they don't want too, and paying extra just for the sake of making a major change is more likely to land us in the lottery rather than the playoffs.

I'm not sure what you're expecting, but this has been the most active Ken Holland has been in an offseason in 15 years.

And look how much good its done? First the fact hes going after Yandle or Weber is a massive sign of desperation on his end. He hasn't done one thing to really improve this team since 08, and now other teams of course are going to make him pay out of the nose to get someone. He made a massive error in the last few seasons not properly preparing this team for its post Lidstrom years, and now we all pay.

Also this team is closer to a lottery team than you probably want to admit.. If Z has his usual January stint on the DL, and Kronner gets his pre-Christmas groin pull/knee tweak, the lack of depth in the D and the top 6 will come back to bite the wings.

Edited by Shaman464, 19 July 2012 - 02:50 AM.

[pucktividi]

The trade deadline is in February. A calendar year would end in July of next season.

Though that's the end of 2012

Anyway,the Wings been involved in 2 blockbuster trades talks in past 24 hours sounds optimistic.Next target Keith Yandle

[Ozzie30]

F it. Lets go get Chara /sarcasm

Edit: I despise autocorrect

Edited by Ozzie30, 19 July 2012 - 03:16 AM.

[Heaten]

Its not Polie's call if they match it, rival or not, its the ownership, and that 20 million dollars Weber will be looking at next season that will dictate what they do. I could see if this were an offer south of 100 million, and less years, but the ownership of Nashville has shown time and time again they are afraid of long term financial commitments. I know you are a Ken Holland apologist, but lets be serious for a moment, we both know that Nashville has had the space to keep a lot of their stars, but they haven't, because of the tight purse strings of their ownership. And this would be a bold move, and even if it failed it would have been a good one, because they will not be able to afford other players had they matched. But it as I said every time the Wings names come up they are always off the mark and lose out.

You must be out of loop with Nashville's ownership. What you are saying was true 4 years ago, but that's not true anymore. They would have matched Suter's $93 million contract had they been given the chance. They can certainly match Weber's $100 million offer if they don't opt for the draft picks. If Holland offered sheeted Weber, they would most certainly matched... with a big smile and a pat on Kenny's back thanking him.

Your chicken little attitude and impatience is getting obnoxious. I can imagine what you would say if you stubbed your toe... "Damn you Holland!!1".

Seriously, it's getting old and your unrealistic expectations are proving ignorance.

[RyanBarnes!]

Weber's not worth our next four 1st rounders. For all we know those could be four lottery pics.

We all know that Preds will match this offer sheet, so that is not the point. But Weber would easily be worth 4 first round picks in my opinion. It is not like the Red Wings have a fantastic draft record for defensemen taken in the first round the past 20 years -and it is not like they aren't trying. Detroit used 8 of 10 possible picks on defensemen and traded ten 1st picks (in 97, 99, 01, 02, 03, 04, 06, 09, 11 and 12). The exceptions are McCollum in 08 and Sheahan in 10.

^{1993 Anders Eriksson
1994 Yan Golubovsky
1995 Maxim Kuznetsov
1996 Jesse Wallin
1998 Jiri Fischer
2000 Niklas Kronwall
2005 Jakub Kindl
2007 Brendan Smith}

[frankgrimes]

As crazy as this offersheet sounds, we could have easily made an even better one (15 years 110 million + signing bonus + performance...), its Shea Weber damnit. For us this is bad, because Weber will never see UFA status he either goes to Philly or be a Pred for life.

NOW finding a replacement for Lidstrom is like trying to find a needle in a haystack. I think this is more like Weber saying "this is the deal I want pay me and I stay if not Philadelphia is my new home". Predators can't risk losing Weber and Suter in one offseason, they for sure match.

[Ozzie30]

<sup>We all know that Preds will match this offer sheet, so that is not the point. But Weber would easily be worth 4 first round picks in my opinion. It is not like the Red Wings have a fantastic draft record for defensemen taken in the first round the past 20 years -and it is not like they aren't trying. Detroit used 8 of 10 possible picks on defensemen and traded ten 1st picks (in 97, 99, 01, 02, 03, 04, 06, 09, 11 and 12). The exceptions are McCollum in 08 and Sheahan in 10.

1993 Anders Eriksson
1994 Yan Golubovsky
1995 Maxim Kuznetsov
1996 Jesse Wallin
1998 Jiri Fischer
2000 Niklas Kronwall
2005 Jakub Kindl
2007 Brendan Smith</sup>

Nothing wrong with the last 4 picks.