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With cap space to clear, do Flyers become a Wings trade partner?


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#41 Motown4013

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Posted 19 July 2012 - 02:19 PM

They won't be moving forwards, it will be a D-man fersure, they are overly deep there now. And it will have to be more than Lilja....they have to clear more than a million and Lilja doesn't make a million.

The only D-man on that team without an NTC is Mezaros.....And I can definately see him in a wings jersey. Holmgren and Holland have been good dancing partners in the past and it seems to be a perfect fit for a trade right now. The Czech movement is beginning....

Edit: unfortunately for us I expect NSH to match

if the LTIR is over and his salary counts for Pronger now, they will have to move more than 1 piece. Weber is a premiere d-man....you dont sign a player like that without parting ways with some key guys and Holmgren is not afraid to blow it up and send away op of the line pieces ( Ritchie and carter last year for Bryz) I can see Timonen going and a guy like Couterier or Simmonds. it just seems like he is never happy....he has to have the newest guy, the biggest story, the best of the best. Maybe he has a small...umm...nevermind
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#42 DangleDangleBeach

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Posted 19 July 2012 - 02:53 PM

id prefer meszaros or grossman. both are highly underrated, especially meszaros. at this point, if flyers will willing to move a d-man to us i wouldnt really be to picky aside from lilja and pronger with his health issues.

#43 The Greek

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Posted 19 July 2012 - 03:10 PM

a million is actually more than sufficient for injury replacements. Sure, most teams would like more than that for security but until last year a lot of teams carried a million or less in previous seasons.


Pronger's LTIR relief has no affect on the Weber deal.


LTIR cap relief constraint is only for during the season. It has nothing to do with the Weber deal. Plus, Pronger is all but done. He also will not officially retire until the duration of his contract is up. The Flyers will gladly pay him the money so they can have the cap space. Pronger's money will not affect their cap hit.

Also, the Flyers are cap compliant as of today WITH Pronger's money on the books. Once they put Pronger on LTIR then they have plenty of room to re-sign Voracek, drop Lilja and be done.

This Weber deal does NOT ensure the Flyers move a defenseman. I'm not saying they won't do it but they definitely do not have to do it.

Also, for those thinking PHI is going to be out of the Ryan sweepstakes I think you're mistaken. Once Pronger is on LTIR PHi could use one of the d-men everyone is talking about and some of the depth at forward as pieces to get Ryan.




It sucks because it's true. Holmgrem has proven that he is aggressive enough to do just as you said.

Edited by The Greek, 19 July 2012 - 03:13 PM.


#44 StormJH1

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Posted 19 July 2012 - 03:13 PM

The worst bit about that contract for Philly, is that they could well be doing it again. Granted Weber is 27 not 35+ but they'll still be paying him till he's 41. Same with Minny paying two guys till they're 40. If the same thing happens they'll be sitting there thinking "Crap we could be in trouble here..."

...Or they could retire at 37 or 38. Or a concussion could force them to retire early. So many teams (Detroit included) have been willing to take that risk, because you're betting against a future where you don't know what the CBA/cap structure will be like then, nor do you know if the guy will still be in the league. And in the meantime, Parise, Suter, and Weber are basically $12 million to $14 million players only counted as about "half" of that as far as the cap is concerned.

#45 Wing Across The Pond

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Posted 19 July 2012 - 03:20 PM

...Or they could retire at 37 or 38. Or a concussion could force them to retire early. So many teams (Detroit included) have been willing to take that risk, because you're betting against a future where you don't know what the CBA/cap structure will be like then, nor do you know if the guy will still be in the league. And in the meantime, Parise, Suter, and Weber are basically $12 million to $14 million players only counted as about "half" of that as far as the cap is concerned.


Yeah, this is big going in as really anything can happen, I agree with you there. He could get crocked in training camp for all we know. That being said, if you give a guy a contract till he's 41 you have to be willing to pay him till he's 41. Simple as. They can't sit there and think "Ah he'll most likely retire before then or something will come up so he doesn't play the last few years". I mean look at Modano contemplating a comeback at 42? It is true... anything can happen.

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#46 pucktividi

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Posted 19 July 2012 - 03:59 PM

They won't be moving forwards, it will be a D-man fersure, they are overly deep there now. And it will have to be more than Lilja....they have to clear more than a million and Lilja doesn't make a million.


We are talking about Paul Holmgren and he's already expressed a huge interest in Bobby Ryan.
Danny B,Read,Voracek...sounds like a good bait for Anaheim.

Just can't count this crazy f***** off :lol:

#47 Wings_Toledo

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Posted 19 July 2012 - 04:10 PM

We are talking about Paul Holmgren and he's already expressed a huge interest in Bobby Ryan.
Danny B,Read,Voracek...sounds like a good bait for Anaheim.

Just can't count this crazy f***** off :lol:


That's the sad thing. He would absolutely make a trade like that (not that it would be a bad trade). It's almost as if he thinks that he has to blow up his team every time they don't win the Cup. I mean, what's the turnover rate for Flyers' players? 2-3 years at most?

#48 MabusIncarnate

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Posted 19 July 2012 - 04:31 PM

Meszaros please. One of the most underrated and lesser known defensemen, he was among the league leaders in plus/minus and blocked shots a couple seasons ago. He plays a physical game also and isn't afraid to sacrifice his body to prevent a scoring chance.

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#49 mmamolo

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Posted 19 July 2012 - 05:15 PM

if the LTIR is over and his salary counts for Pronger now, they will have to move more than 1 piece. Weber is a premiere d-man....you dont sign a player like that without parting ways with some key guys and Holmgren is not afraid to blow it up and send away op of the line pieces ( Ritchie and carter last year for Bryz) I can see Timonen going and a guy like Couterier or Simmonds. it just seems like he is never happy....he has to have the newest guy, the biggest story, the best of the best. Maybe he has a small...umm...nevermind

Pronger's cap hit will NOT count against the cap. PHI will eat his salary for the next five years by paying him to stay on LTIR and not retire until the contract has concluded. They did the same thing with Laperriere.

Also, there is zero chance Couturier gets traded.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f68VXKMZT1Q

It sucks because it's true. Holmgrem has proven that he is aggressive enough to do just as you said.


PHI has been going all in for the last couple of years. Honestly, I hate to shoot everyone's fantasies down but what I said is true. I'd like a Coburn or Meszaros or whatever as much as any one else but it's not realistic. But good video buddy
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#50 number9

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Posted 19 July 2012 - 05:26 PM

We are talking about Paul Holmgren and he's already expressed a huge interest in Bobby Ryan.
Danny B,Read,Voracek...sounds like a good bait for Anaheim.

Just can't count this crazy f***** off :lol:


He is literally bizzaro Holland....

Hopefully he trades Giroux to us and Briere to the Isles....then when the Isles don't make the playoffs we get Briere at the deadline and go all L.A.KING on the cup.

#51 Dabura

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Posted 19 July 2012 - 06:03 PM

On top of that he's a hilarious dude and would be great in the locker room. It's always fun having a class clown that improves morale during s*** skids.


On top of all that's been said about him, I'll add that he's also not afraid to challenge his teammates to do better (or "call them out," if you like).

But we're not getting him. Or Giroux (cream-filled-pipe dream). Or anyone good. Or anyone, prolly.

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#52 Seraph

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Posted 19 July 2012 - 06:10 PM

Jesus, if Holland goes and picks up the scraps from Philly, he will forever be cemented in my mind as a coupon snipping hockey mom GM. This, on top of the post-CBA discount deals he's after. The contract Philly offered was ridiculous, but still, I'd like to see Holland bust a real move some time this decade.

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#53 number9

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Posted 19 July 2012 - 08:14 PM

On top of all that's been said about him, I'll add that he's also not afraid to challenge his teammates to do better (or "call them out," if you like).


I did a complete 180 with Hartnell after watching the Pens-Flyers series this year and the 24/7HBO thing. Have learned to love the guy. He's physical as hell but not really dirty and has a lot of personality.....he just plain pumps up the crowd. Fun to watch.

#54 Detroit # 1 Fan

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Posted 19 July 2012 - 08:17 PM

Coburn or Mezsaros would be wonderful. Doubt Holmgren wants to break down his defence after Weber signs, because it would be one of the best in the league.

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#55 number9

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Posted 19 July 2012 - 08:49 PM

Coburn or Mezsaros would be wonderful. Doubt Holmgren wants to break down his defence after Weber signs, because it would be one of the best in the league.


He has to though...You can't be scratching one of Weber, Pronger, Coburn, Timonen, Meszaros, Schenn, or Grossmann each game....all are way to high a caliber and all make too much money to not be using them....Of course if Pronger really is done then that changes things

Did anyone ever think about this? What if Holmgren is doing Poile a favor? He convinces Weber to sign a long term deal at about 7 million a year...which is I'd say reasonable for him in this market....And now all Poile has to do is match it and hes got his captain, his star, locked up for 14 years!!! Weber clearly didn't want to be in Nashville the rest of his career and would probably be hitting UFA next year....Maybe Poile is doing whatever it takes to keep Weber a pred, even if it involves making backroom deals with Holmgren. Especially as he just watched Suter walk out the door which Weber would have been doing next summer. Now he can match and he has solved that whole dilemma quite nicely....meanwhile Holmgren loses nothing in the process and may have gained a lucrative backroom deal with Poile in the process.....Weber may have just been played like a cheap fiddle. Sucker.

Idk though, the whole things a big COULD BE, just thought I'd speculate

#56 swedishconnection

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Posted 19 July 2012 - 09:41 PM

He has to though...You can't be scratching one of Weber, Pronger, Coburn, Timonen, Meszaros, Schenn, or Grossmann each game....all are way to high a caliber and all make too much money to not be using them....Of course if Pronger really is done then that changes things

Did anyone ever think about this? What if Holmgren is doing Poile a favor? He convinces Weber to sign a long term deal at about 7 million a year...which is I'd say reasonable for him in this market....And now all Poile has to do is match it and hes got his captain, his star, locked up for 14 years!!! Weber clearly didn't want to be in Nashville the rest of his career and would probably be hitting UFA next year....Maybe Poile is doing whatever it takes to keep Weber a pred, even if it involves making backroom deals with Holmgren. Especially as he just watched Suter walk out the door which Weber would have been doing next summer. Now he can match and he has solved that whole dilemma quite nicely....meanwhile Holmgren loses nothing in the process and may have gained a lucrative backroom deal with Poile in the process.....Weber may have just been played like a cheap fiddle. Sucker.

Idk though, the whole things a big COULD BE, just thought I'd speculate


If that is the case then why did Philly front-load the contract? If the argument to that would be to make it appear less back-room, then it may very well limit NSH's ability to secure Weber. Wasnt it Matt who figured out in an earlier post that it would be 16% of the entire value of the team just to pay Weber in the first year? That simply cannot be a back door agreement. More likely Holmgren just wanted to force NSH's hand.
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#57 Motown4013

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Posted 19 July 2012 - 09:56 PM

Pronger's cap hit will NOT count against the cap. PHI will eat his salary for the next five years by paying him to stay on LTIR and not retire until the contract has concluded. They did the same thing with Laperriere.

Also, there is zero chance Couturier gets traded.


PHI has been going all in for the last couple of years. Honestly, I hate to shoot everyone's fantasies down but what I said is true. I'd like a Coburn or Meszaros or whatever as much as any one else but it's not realistic. But good video buddy

Did you actually just say that here is zero chance Couturier gets traded? This from a GM who makes Ritchie a captian and inks Carter to a long term deal only to turn around and send both of them packing for easy breezy? You trust or can forsee anything this guy does???
In terms of LTIR....two years is much different than 5 to carry a salary...and the money is very different between lappy and Pronger....they aren't even comparable AND they still only have 22 forwards signed. As it's already been pointed out, who are they gonna make a healthy scratch on D? The newly acquired Schenn is gonna sit? Mezaros maybe...I don't think so. We will see what happens but expect more weirdness from the Philly brass.
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#58 number9

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Posted 19 July 2012 - 10:36 PM

If that is the case then why did Philly front-load the contract? If the argument to that would be to make it appear less back-room, then it may very well limit NSH's ability to secure Weber. Wasnt it Matt who figured out in an earlier post that it would be 16% of the entire value of the team just to pay Weber in the first year? That simply cannot be a back door agreement. More likely Holmgren just wanted to force NSH's hand.


It's front loaded because of the CBA and the possible impending lockout. Simple.....It's the same reason why Parise and Suter were front loaded....If I was Weber I would demand a front loaded contract right now too.....And that doesn't make it appear less back room, it makes it appear less matchable and helps convince Weber to agree to the offer sheet.

#59 Bring Back The Bruise Bros

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Posted 19 July 2012 - 11:46 PM

To Philadelphia:

Johan Franzen
Valtteri Filppula
Patrick Eaves
Cory Emmerton
Draft pick

To Detroit:

Wayne Simmonds
Scott Hartnell
Jody Shelley
Niklas Grossman

Zetterberg-Datsyuk-Hartnell
Simmonds-Brunner-Samuelsson
Cleary-Helm-Bertuzzi
Miller-Abdelkader-Tootoo
Shelley/Nyquist

Kronwall-White
Quincey-Ericsson
Grossman-B.Smith
Kindl




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#60 55fan

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Posted 20 July 2012 - 01:08 AM

So, cap geeks, please correct me if I'm wrong, but if the Flyers buy someone out to make room, and that someone is entering the last year of his contract, doesn't this leave the Flyers on the hook for half and the new team on the hook for the other half?

I think there is another payment schedule that is an alternative to this, but either way, it requires the new team to pay half to the player.

The reason I'm asking is that I was just thinking that instead of trading, we should see if they buy out Lilja. We could have him back for around... whatever half of 737.5k is. Not to shabby for a veteran dman.

Yes, 2007 was brutal, but remember that we lost that game in OT only because he scored the only goal in the game to take it to OT. Then he started improving.

At his age, he'd probably be there to push the kids along and be the go-to guy in case of injury. In essence, he'd be replacing Janik, but at a lower salary.

Just a thought. I look forward to capologists correcting/ informing me. I love learning about this stuff.





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