Jump to content


Photo
* * * - - 5 votes

Holland losing his moxie? Is Detroit slipping as UFA destination?

ken holland

  • Please log in to reply
346 replies to this topic

#241 joesuffP

joesuffP

    Hall-of-Famer

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,926 posts

Posted 01 August 2012 - 11:16 AM

The defence has been totally revamped in a matter of 3 years. This is a transition period. Holland at some point will spend up to the cap and a true #1 Dman will be on the team. There is reason to have a lot of optimism with this team, Holland is not going to hit the cap without seriously addressing all the teams issues.

I don't think you could consider Holland failing until he has all his salary spent and not a stanley cup contending team

#242 haroldsnepsts

haroldsnepsts

    "Classy"

  • HoF Booster Mod
  • 16,873 posts

Posted 01 August 2012 - 11:17 AM

My point exactly. I want to see how he does post Lidstrom and without a good defense in front of him. He's proven he can be steady when he's got the best defenseman in the game in front of him but lets be honest what goaltender wouldn't look better with Lidstrom on the team. Not to mention Stuart who is much better than Kronwall in my opinion. I don't expect Howard will be awful, but I'm guessing his numbers will drop.

Howard has been more than steady. And Kronwall was much better than Stuart last season. Stuart was a loss, but he wasn't the same defenseman we saw in 2008 and 2009. Maybe his personal situation was catching up with him.

The good news is now the Wings (hopefully) have a steady backup who can give Howard some breaks throughout the season. Last year he got run into the ground until his injuries started because they needed the wins and couldn't count on anyone else in net.

#243 kipwinger

kipwinger

    Hall-of-Famer

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,567 posts
  • Location:Mt. Pleasant, MI

Posted 01 August 2012 - 01:22 PM

I've never really understood the rationale behind this "so and so goalie hasn't proven anything because he plays for a good team" argument. According to that logic Brodeur, Hasek, Sawchuk, and Roy ought to be in the same category as Osgood, and Curtis Joseph or Ed Belfour should be considered the greatest goalie that ever lived.

Also, if Howard's a bum for having the seventh best defense in front of him last year, then are Elliot, Quick, and Lundqvist bums for backstopping the first, second, and third best defenses?

Edit: Actually, why stop there? If the only individual accomplishments that count are the ones made on terrible teams, then you'd have to say Rick Nash or John Tavares are the best forwards in the NHL today, and Carey Price is the NHL's top goalie.

Edited by kipwinger, 01 August 2012 - 01:31 PM.

GMRwings:  "Well, in other civilized countries, 16 years old isn't considered underage.  For instance, I believe the age of consent is 16 in Canada.  There's some US states where it's 16 as well.  

 

Get off the high horse.  Not like she was 10."

 

"Some girls are 17 even though they look 25."

 

 


#244 Buppy

Buppy

    1st Line All-Star

  • Silver Booster
  • 1,980 posts

Posted 01 August 2012 - 02:03 PM

I thinkk less people would be complaining if Holland had attempted to address team needs for the last three years. He thought Nick was coming back & was caught with his pants down. Who's head is in the sand? Howard will be lit up this year. We are not uniquely strong on D & we don't have the O to hang onto the puck like we used to. We don't suck. We are on par with Calgary. Are they good?

Re-read the post you quoted for my response.

#245 centcougar

centcougar

    Jr. Prospect

  • Member
  • 17 posts

Posted 01 August 2012 - 05:38 PM

I've never really understood the rationale behind this "so and so goalie hasn't proven anything because he plays for a good team" argument. According to that logic Brodeur, Hasek, Sawchuk, and Roy ought to be in the same category as Osgood, and Curtis Joseph or Ed Belfour should be considered the greatest goalie that ever lived.

Also, if Howard's a bum for having the seventh best defense in front of him last year, then are Elliot, Quick, and Lundqvist bums for backstopping the first, second, and third best defenses?

Edit: Actually, why stop there? If the only individual accomplishments that count are the ones made on terrible teams, then you'd have to say Rick Nash or John Tavares are the best forwards in the NHL today, and Carey Price is the NHL's top goalie.


Their defense was ranked that high because they were the ones playing out of their minds. Just take a look at the playoffs... Jonathan Quick stole several games even though his defense wasn't playing that well. Nobody is saying Howard is bad, just that he's not elite like a lot of people try and say he is. His numbers don't compare to goaltenders who are considered elite and are in the Vezina conversation.

#246 Crymson

Crymson

    Ninjelephant

  • Gold Booster
  • 11,032 posts
  • Location:Denver, CO, USA

Posted 01 August 2012 - 05:59 PM

Their defense was ranked that high because they were the ones playing out of their minds. Just take a look at the playoffs... Jonathan Quick stole several games even though his defense wasn't playing that well. Nobody is saying Howard is bad, just that he's not elite like a lot of people try and say he is. His numbers don't compare to goaltenders who are considered elite and are in the Vezina conversation.


Like who? Backstrom and Harding?

#247 LeftWinger

LeftWinger

    42 years in Detroit! Time to spend the rest in paradise!

  • Silver Booster
  • 8,586 posts
  • Location:HART - MI

Posted 01 August 2012 - 06:18 PM

Like who? Backstrom and Harding?

:hysterical:

anyway...centcouger (new account?)

I think Detroit is still a desirable place for UFA's or nobody would ever come here...ever. There has been plenty of UFA's pass on Detroit throughout the last 20 years, has it made Detroit any less dominant? No, and the fact that Mary Kate and Ashley chose to play close to family (for more money too mind you) does not mean Detroit is not a destination desired by most NHL players. It is only the situation that are in and looking for that leads them to where they go.

Ask yourself this if Detroit was such a horrible destination, why is it when players are asked to submit a list of 5 or 6 teams they would waive their NTC/NMC for 95% of the time (if not 100%) Detroit is on their list...Seems to me I rarely see the likes of Minnesota or St. Louis on anyone's list... Sometimes, more cash and family are things that another city cannot compete with...I am good with that, and can understand.

I have pride in the fact that, when a UFA does sign here, he RARELY goes anywhere else after, unless it is for one of those reason's, family or just looking to cash in. The ONLY reason Hossa isn't here for 12 years rather than Chicago is the fact that Holland chose Franzine and wasn't sure what Hudler was going to do re-sign or explore RFA, he chose Russia instead and Hossa had already gone due to cap space or lack there of...One mistake Holland will not admit to making.

Don't Be Jealous, But I Live Here...

www.thinkdunes.com

 


#248 The Axe

The Axe

    Hall-of-Famer

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,379 posts

Posted 01 August 2012 - 10:42 PM

We will see what Howard is this year. I say less than 30 wins. But we ought to at least give him a chance in the post #5 era.

#249 number9

number9

    Hall-of-Famer

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,204 posts
  • Location:East Lansing

Posted 01 August 2012 - 10:52 PM

We will see what Howard is this year. I say less than 30 wins. But we ought to at least give him a chance in the post #5 era.


hahahahhahaha wanna know how i know u dont watch hockey?

Columbus was the only team who didnt get 30 wins last year....COLUMBUS

#250 The Axe

The Axe

    Hall-of-Famer

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,379 posts

Posted 01 August 2012 - 10:59 PM

Howard is a goalie, not a team.

#251 number9

number9

    Hall-of-Famer

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,204 posts
  • Location:East Lansing

Posted 01 August 2012 - 11:06 PM

Howard is a goalie, not a team.


we still have better forward lines, better goalies, and yes even better defensive lines than CBJ had last year....stop before u dig ur hole too deep

#252 The Axe

The Axe

    Hall-of-Famer

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,379 posts

Posted 01 August 2012 - 11:15 PM

I will bet you 20 bucks. That good? Howard had 35 last year, just as a heads up.

#253 number9

number9

    Hall-of-Famer

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,204 posts
  • Location:East Lansing

Posted 01 August 2012 - 11:21 PM

I will bet you 20 bucks. That good? Howard had 35 last year, just as a heads up.


whoa whoa whoa....u wanna bet on it? as in i get 20 bucks if the wings do 30 wins or better? DONE

whoa whoa whoa....u wanna bet on it? as in i get 20 bucks if the wings do 30 wins or better? DONE


i will gladly send u a 20 spot if the wings do worse than 30 wins, gladly. ur on sir

#254 skyphoenix

skyphoenix

    JIMMEH

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,734 posts
  • Location:Commerce, MI

Posted 02 August 2012 - 12:12 AM

He wasn't betting on the Wings getting 30 wins, he was betting on HOWARD getting 30 wins.

EDIT: Which, I believe he will still accomplish. I don't think our team is in that bad of shape that we're going to lose that many more games. The only thing that I think could stop Howard from getting 30 wins is if Gustavsson plays well enough to truly split time with him.

Edited by skyphoenix, 02 August 2012 - 12:15 AM.

Posted Image


#255 Wingzman91

Wingzman91

    2nd Pair Defenseman

  • Bronze Booster
  • 309 posts
  • Location:Fort Myers, FL

Posted 02 August 2012 - 01:01 AM

Yes that's it...bs bs bs bs bs bs bs bs bs.
So how appealing are the Red Wings now?

EDIT: Lost my password for the other acct. , convenient way to get rid of 217 negatives too.


This is how delusional opposing teams fans are, why every team thinks they are the rival of Detroit.
Detroit finds a way to win.
That is what burns you up.
Detroit will always be appealing to it's fans, good luck convincing them otherwise, sounds like a good use of your time.

#256 predmonkee

predmonkee

    Top Prospect

  • Member
  • Pip
  • 59 posts

Posted 02 August 2012 - 03:06 AM

And for the record, I think Howard is a goaltender you can win a cup with. Could care less about save percentages and whatever else. You can see it on the ice the way the kid plays. If I was a wings fan, that's all that would matter to me.

#257 Z Winged Dangler

Z Winged Dangler

    Part 3: Return of the Hammer Hands

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,181 posts
  • Location:Winnipeg, MB

Posted 02 August 2012 - 12:30 PM

:hysterical:

anyway...centcouger (new account?)

I think Detroit is still a desirable place for UFA's or nobody would ever come here...ever. There has been plenty of UFA's pass on Detroit throughout the last 20 years, has it made Detroit any less dominant? No, and the fact that Mary Kate and Ashley chose to play close to family (for more money too mind you) does not mean Detroit is not a destination desired by most NHL players. It is only the situation that are in and looking for that leads them to where they go.

Ask yourself this if Detroit was such a horrible destination, why is it when players are asked to submit a list of 5 or 6 teams they would waive their NTC/NMC for 95% of the time (if not 100%) Detroit is on their list...Seems to me I rarely see the likes of Minnesota or St. Louis on anyone's list... Sometimes, more cash and family are things that another city cannot compete with...I am good with that, and can understand.

I have pride in the fact that, when a UFA does sign here, he RARELY goes anywhere else after, unless it is for one of those reason's, family or just looking to cash in. The ONLY reason Hossa isn't here for 12 years rather than Chicago is the fact that Holland chose Franzine and wasn't sure what Hudler was going to do re-sign or explore RFA, he chose Russia instead and Hossa had already gone due to cap space or lack there of...One mistake Holland will not admit to making.

Probably a new account so he won't have a bad rep in his profile...

And Backstrom has to be in the playoffs to be an elite playoff goalie. Brunner wanted to sign here. Tootoo, a div rival for many years came here. Sammy wanted to come back. Gustafsson fits well in the organization with fellow Swedes. Suter would have come here if he were wearing the pants. The Wings have lots of interest from players all over the world.

Free darkmanx!

 

"I play hockey, but I am not very good.  Can someone please tell me what it would take to sign with the Wings ? I can use a million or two."  ~ arag


#258 esteef

esteef

    Legend

  • HoF Booster
  • 8,874 posts

Posted 02 August 2012 - 12:55 PM

I thought Sammy and Tootoo weren't re-signed by their respective teams and had no other offers?

esteef
"The Wings haven't won a Cup without Darren McCarty since 1955."

#259 Carman

Carman

    Legend

  • HoF Booster
  • 5,113 posts
  • Location:Riverview, MI

Posted 02 August 2012 - 01:02 PM

I thought Sammy and Tootoo weren't re-signed by their respective teams and had no other offers?

esteef


You're right who would want Samuelsson, it's not like he had the same PPG as Richards, Van Riemsdyk, Roy, Brassard, Hornqviust, Setoguchi, Hemsky, S. Koivu, Gagne, Booth, Duchene, Ruutu, Morrow, Dubinsky, or Stewart. None of these players have any value, I'm surprised they are even on NHL teams!

#260 number9

number9

    Hall-of-Famer

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,204 posts
  • Location:East Lansing

Posted 02 August 2012 - 01:18 PM

He wasn't betting on the Wings getting 30 wins, he was betting on HOWARD getting 30 wins.

EDIT: Which, I believe he will still accomplish. I don't think our team is in that bad of shape that we're going to lose that many more games. The only thing that I think could stop Howard from getting 30 wins is if Gustavsson plays well enough to truly split time with him.


not sure if my post got deleted or not, but ill still take the howie with 30 wins or more bet Axey boy





Similar Topics Collapse


Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: ken holland

0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users