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Holland losing his moxie? Is Detroit slipping as UFA destination?

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#61 Wingsfan72

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Posted 25 July 2012 - 01:52 PM

http://www.thefourth...477873838891818

Oilers fans seem to think so.....

(comments)

Edited by Wingsfan72, 25 July 2012 - 01:52 PM.



 
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#62 Dabura

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Posted 25 July 2012 - 02:26 PM

the offer to Suter was in the 90's, not over 100 mil.


?

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#63 Dabura

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Posted 25 July 2012 - 09:14 PM

Winging It In Motown: Ken Holland needs to prove that Red Wings are still for real
http://news.google.c...ngs-ken-holland

Hathway knows the score. Good stuff.

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#64 Rivalred

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Posted 25 July 2012 - 09:53 PM

Winging It In Motown: Ken Holland needs to prove that Red Wings are still for real
http://news.google.c...ngs-ken-holland

Hathway knows the score. Good stuff.


Very well put and people will be waiting for action
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#65 frankgrimes

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Posted 25 July 2012 - 09:54 PM

Very very good read, enjoyed it, just some things to add

drafting is always a big gamble, especially when you are drafting as high as the Wings do. You are pretty much going for high risk/high reward type of picks if 5 of them turn out good + you have done an oustanding job, sadly that is not the reality.

True, Holland needs to prove again why he is the freaking best GM in the game, but what can you do when absolutely no one is outthere? Do you honestly believe the Coyotes would send Yandle to a conference rival? I highly doubt that. Holland should have been prepared better for that scenario yes, but you can't blame our internal lack of nhl caliber defensemen save for Smith, we should have tradered for one. One the other hand which team is going to give up top 2 defensemen easily?

It is a tough situation for sure, but I am very confident that Holland, Nil und Develano will prove again who the best management in the league is. Maybe not this but certainly next year.

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#66 Carman

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Posted 25 July 2012 - 10:20 PM

What defenseman traded/free agent the past 3 years would have been a very good top pairing defenseman for the Red Wings moving forward in the future?

If a top tier defenseman gets traded to anyone but the Wings, and the offer isn't something completely ludicrous I'll start blaming Holland, but the only defenseman that fits what the Red Wings need the past few years was Suter, if you want to argue Burns I'll understand it, I just don't think the trade would have for value(Setoguchi,Coyle and a first would be equivalent to Filpulla, Smith/Nyquist and a first , and I'm not sold on Burns fitting in our puck possession game, he takes a lot of risks, something the Red Wings defense probably has enough of.

I'd like to hear(in reasonable hindsight obviously we probably wouldn't have been able to trade for Weber/Chara etc.) on players that have been moved, what you think Holland should have done? I can't see a defenseman that I'd personally feel good about going forward with for the next 5 years other than Suter, and Holland did all he could to get him.

The situation is not dire, there is plenty of time, cap space, and assets for Holland to work with. If he strikes out and the Wings miss the playoffs, Yandle or Enstrom get moved for cheap then there is reasonable examples of Holland not getting the players we need.

#67 Dabura

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Posted 25 July 2012 - 10:41 PM

Ian White is our #2 defenseman. That's borderline outrageous. Holland should've been better prepared for Nick's departure. It's really that simple.

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#68 The Axe

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Posted 25 July 2012 - 11:36 PM

Holland blew it. Plain and simple. He's got his head up and locked right now. He's taking care of fringe moves that dont help the team and missing out on ones that could. Pondering over Holmstrom's future? Are you kidding me? Bertuzzi? Samuelsson? Tootoo? Quincey? Would any of you on here rather have these 5 guys and their 11 million dollar cap hit instead of Suter (9 mil per), nyquist, tatar, emmerton, and #63 (cant remember name)? "But Holland would have had to offer parise 9 mil too.". Fine! If he wasnt blowing it on has-beens, we'd still have 4-5 mil in cap space even after spending 18 mil per on those 2 guys. Holland is going to need to trade players now. And Franzen isnt going to be what other teams want. Filppula , Smith, and Nyquist are the goods. Losing those guys will hurt us more than people realize. Holland has failed. Goose said it best = no points for 2nd place.

#69 Carman

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Posted 25 July 2012 - 11:36 PM

Ian White is our #2 defenseman. That's borderline outrageous. Holland should've been better prepared for Nick's departure. It's really that simple.


Mind answering my question then? If it's that simple, which defenseman are you thinking he should have went after?

Same with The Axe above me. Which defenseman that has been traded/free agent the past few seasons are you guys thinking of? I'd love to know. Bring something to the table.

Edited by Carman, 25 July 2012 - 11:39 PM.


#70 number9

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Posted 26 July 2012 - 12:56 AM

hahahhahaha holland thinks 10 to 20 steps ahead of everyone....u all only think of the here and now, gald he's our GM

Edited by number9, 26 July 2012 - 12:57 AM.


#71 pucktividi

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Posted 26 July 2012 - 01:06 AM

Off topic but I lol'd

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=401434

"Now we move forward and see what we can do," he explained. "We like our team - we think it's a good, up-and-coming young team and we will continue to try and add to it and make it better, which is what we tried to do with the offer sheet. We'll move forward.There are still players out there that require a trade," Holmgren added in the conference call. "There's still plenty of time before we can plan and rule out anything right now. As I said earlier, we really like our team, we certainly don't want to make any drastic changes, but we are going to continue to look at ways to get better. The object is to have the best team going into training camp and that's what we're going to do."


Edited by pucktividi, 26 July 2012 - 01:06 AM.


#72 Z Winged Dangler

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Posted 26 July 2012 - 07:54 AM

hahahhahaha holland thinks 10 to 20 steps ahead of everyone....u all only think of the here and now, gald he's our GM

:thumbs-up: agreed. Like Drake Marcus said in a very well constructed post, guys like Flip, Dats and Howard are going to need to be re-signed next summer and Holland unlike most GM's keeps money around to make sure he doesn't lose the core of his team. Good to see not everyone is writing the Wings off 2 1/2 months before the season starts. And we got players like Gus and Brunner that are capable of playing in the top 6 until proven otherwise.

Free darkmanx!

 

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#73 Esquire

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Posted 26 July 2012 - 08:21 AM

I don't know what everyone is getting so worked up about. It's almost as if people believe that the season will start on time and be an entire 82 games or something. Relax people, all the Wings have to do is ride out 50-60 games which will give Holland and company plenty of time to make moves/signings for 2013-14.

Easy peasy lemon squeezy.
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#74 13dangledangle

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Posted 26 July 2012 - 08:21 AM

If you look at the top six of some other teams like Philly, Rangers & the Kings they are friggin' loaded. If you look at their D corps I think those three teams are also more well rounded then we currently boast and two out of three of those teams goalies are Quick and Lundqvist.

Holland needs to add at least one scorer to our top six & he needs to add one great D man. What worries me is the attraction of Detroit slipped a couple years ago (at least to the North American player) with no fault of Holland-so how does he counter that, along with now a club that lost the best ever Dman and an has an aging core of "elite" talent. Not easy things to overcome but Im convinced he just needs to rock one solid move to put us back on the radar. At this rate Hollands going to be watched like never before so I hope he rocks it out soooon.
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#75 Hey man nice shot!

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Posted 26 July 2012 - 08:34 AM

:thumbs-up: agreed. Like Drake Marcus said in a very well constructed post, guys like Flip, Dats and Howard are going to need to be re-signed next summer and Holland unlike most GM's keeps money around to make sure he doesn't lose the core of his team. Good to see not everyone is writing the Wings off 2 1/2 months before the season starts. And we got players like Gus and Brunner that are capable of playing in the top 6 until proven otherwise.

God the season needs to start the drama is hurting meh head>< I am also on board with believing we need to be patient and plan MORE for the future than the now.Our team isant complete for a bit yet and if it is....it will be for a good reason, think for the future.

#76 The Axe

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Posted 26 July 2012 - 08:40 AM

Carman,

So far- Shultz, Carle, Weber, Suter, Lidstrom.

ZWD,

If Holland was smart, he'd wrap up extensions for Dats and Flip RIGHT NOW and not have to worry about them next year. But make no mistake, Holland's next move will be blowing another 1.25 mil on Holmstrom.

Carman,

So far- Shultz, Carle, Weber, Suter, Lidstrom.

ZWD,

If Holland was smart, he'd wrap up extensions for Dats and Flip RIGHT NOW and not have to worry about them next year. But make no mistake, Holland's next move will be blowing another 1.25 mil on Holmstrom.

#77 Carman

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Posted 26 July 2012 - 09:14 AM

Shultz, Carle, Weber, Suter, Lidstrom.


Shultz hasn't played an NHL game. Not to mention he wanted to play in Edmonton.

Carle would not have been a good fit, he's slow, the absolute opposite of physical(fewest hits on his defense with the most games), gives the puck away more often, and doesn't win battles defensively. He's a good second pairing puck mover, but he's not what the Red Wings need in a top pairing dman especially when you have to commit 6 years to him.

Weber wasn't coming here, and he didn't even end up switching teams.

Suter is really the only top pairing defenseman that would have made the Wings better.

I don't see a move that would have made the Red Wings a cup contender, if you really think Carle can play top line minutes then I guess I can't argue there, I just think Carle is very overrated and is too similar to White/Kronwall/Smith, we need to think defensively in my opinion. A willie mitchell type defenseman would be much more valuable then another offensive dman.

It's not Holland's fault a top pairing defenseman is rare, bashing him for not finding a needle in a haystack is unfair in my view. It's not like his missing out on Chara getting traded for a first rounder, if he doesn't get a deal done on a top pairing defenseman and they do get traded then go ahead and bash him. But the top pairing defenseman the Red Wings needed was Suter, and there wasn't a move in the past 4 years that would have made us into a cup contender on the blueline. Holland won't make a rash move to appease the twitter world. He's going to make the right move.

#78 Mckinley25

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Posted 26 July 2012 - 09:32 AM

Holland tried to replace Lidstrom the right way-through the draft. Kronwall, Kindl, etc., didn't quite pan out. If you want to be mad at Holland be mad because he didn't draft Yandle or Letang. But hindsight you know is.....

#79 Dave

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Posted 26 July 2012 - 10:09 AM

Mind answering my question then? If it's that simple, which defenseman are you thinking he should have went after?


Christian Ehrhoff would have been a good choice a couple of years ago.

#80 esteef

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Posted 26 July 2012 - 10:35 AM

Yes, keep listing names so the Holland pups can cross their arms and shake their head no at every single one of them. Then proclaim, see Holland is God.

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