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Holland losing his moxie? Is Detroit slipping as UFA destination?

ken holland

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#121 The Axe

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Posted 26 July 2012 - 08:42 PM

If our amazing amount of young talent is so amazing, why are giys like Holmstrom, Bertuzzi, Tootoo, Eaves, Miller, and Samuelsson getting the minutes? People need to wake up and realize that Tatar, Nyquist, Brunner, etc all would have had 60-80 games played last year if they were so amazing. The Darren Helms and Dwight Kings of hockey dont get held bacl for development long, much less the Datsyuks and Kopitars.

#122 Shaman

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Posted 26 July 2012 - 09:02 PM

So, no Doan, no Semin, no Suter, no Parise. Engaging or considering trading within the division where he had no chance to make a deal happen. This offseason so far has been a resounding failure for Holland. Hes so far is basically standing pat, or regressing in areas of concern on this team (namely the top 6, Samuelsson is not better than Hudler, remember, his best season was playing with 2 players that had 200 points). Even if he manages a trade, the way things are going (based upon track record of trades over the last few seasons) he will have to overpay. Holland finally gets a chance to show he can roll with the punches and sustain the team, and he sits on his ass.

And to all the slappies who defend Holland, ask yourselves 'How has this team actually improved since last season?' No baseless speculation of everyone overachieving, no unrealistic trades that you can't justify, and no saying 'this team hasn't played one game' because it played 87 games last season and regressed since then.

Edited by Shaman464, 27 July 2012 - 06:34 PM.

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#123 The Axe

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Posted 26 July 2012 - 09:22 PM

Agreed, Shaman. Its not like Nyquist is going to score 30/60 this year. If he does, then people will wonder where he's been and why. The wings prospects, outside of Smith, are weak. Holland and his followers are delusional to think we can field a playoff competitive team with this line-up. Blues 4, Wings 1. First round exit. Thanks for coming.

#124 arag

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Posted 27 July 2012 - 06:32 AM

Smith is all we got.


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#125 ShanahanMan

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Posted 27 July 2012 - 06:50 AM

If our amazing amount of young talent is so amazing, why are giys like Holmstrom, Bertuzzi, Tootoo, Eaves, Miller, and Samuelsson getting the minutes? People need to wake up and realize that Tatar, Nyquist, Brunner, etc all would have had 60-80 games played last year if they were so amazing. The Darren Helms and Dwight Kings of hockey dont get held bacl for development long, much less the Datsyuks and Kopitars.


Well.....uh, to be fair, it would have been a bit hard for those guys to put up minutes for us while they were playing for other teams........or other leagues.


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#126 goon19

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Posted 27 July 2012 - 08:45 AM

maybe thats a problem too. you can just get better when you play against better teams. in my opinion our young guys dont get enough chances to develop them selves. if you play constantly in lower leagues you gonna adapt this style of playing and speed. our draft picks should get a chance earlier to play nhl, instead of playing minors for years.

#127 Z Winged Dangler

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Posted 27 July 2012 - 10:52 AM

Well.....uh, to be fair, it would have been a bit hard for those guys to put up minutes for us while they were playing for other teams........or other leagues.

You can even add Nyquist to that list cause he was on GR most of the year at a point per game. On top of that he was scoring at about .70 points per game when Franzen was out and he was on the 2nd line and didn't get another point after he was relegated to a line with Homer and Emmerton after Mule's return and much less ice time. For guys to say Gus, a Hobey Baker runner up and leading scorer for GR last year i believe, can't put up 50-60 points playing in the top 6 as well as Brunner who no matter what league he played in last year, he led it in points, then people need to sit back and watch this year and criticize when they don't reach 50 pts this year. Barring a lockout of course.

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#128 The Axe

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Posted 27 July 2012 - 11:26 AM

Good point ZWD. I believe any winger should put up 40 pts with Z or D as his center. Thats a starting point. 60 is good and 80 is great. Nyquist and Brunner need to get bigger, however. They are not gonna crash the net and bang home our standard 45 foot perimeter shot rebounds at 170 lbs a piece. While our top 6 forwards look promising speed, skill, and defensive wise, they are sorely lacking what counts in the playoffs- muscle, grit, and bang. Gotta work on that.

#129 number9

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Posted 27 July 2012 - 12:01 PM

just some comparable stats for 3 of our most NHL ready prospects....pts/gp

Nyquist-----------Filppula--------------Hudler
AHL: 62/64------AHL: 74/77----------AHL: 179/185

Jarnkrok-----------Franzen
SEL: 76/132------SEL: 58/165

Andersson--------Helm
AHL: 74/153------AHL: 68/122

Edited by number9, 27 July 2012 - 12:02 PM.


#130 blgillett

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Posted 27 July 2012 - 01:12 PM

Its a tough year the market is very weak and the prices are steep. You can't expect kenny to over pay for anyone no matter how bad we may need players. The worst part about it is the owners approve these over paid contracts then they turn around and complain that there not making enough money
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#131 DEVILSWATERBOY

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Posted 27 July 2012 - 02:06 PM

I have to believe that the problem is not Holland or that the Wings are not the premier place for free agents but, that the city of detroit and all of its' problems have made the top free agents head to other cities, that have more to offer.

#132 Buppy

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Posted 27 July 2012 - 03:31 PM

Its a tough year the market is very weak and the prices are steep. You can't expect kenny to over pay for anyone no matter how bad we may need players. The worst part about it is the owners approve these over paid contracts then they turn around and complain that there not making enough money

I don't think it's so much a matter of not wanting to overpay or looking for bargains. I think Kenny's just looking at the big picture and doesn't want to make big commitments to marginal players just to say he's doing something. We need a star, not an extra. We're willing to pay for a star. We offered Suter ~$7M for 13 years, probably would have matched Minnesota's offer if we wouldn't have also had to offer Parise the same. We were willing to make big commitments to both, just not quite as big as Minnesota. We looked into Nash and Weber.

But guys like Carle, Garrison, etc. aren't going to make any difference. If we're as bad as some people think then Carle isn't an answer. Better off not bothering. If we're not as bad as people think, we're still better off riding it out while we try for someone who can make a difference, who can be or become the leader of this team. If we have to be mediocre for a couple years, maybe miss the playoffs, so what. Every other team has managed to do so without the world ending. 2nd and 3rd tier players are always available to add later if we need to. We added a few pieces to give us some trade flexibility. We need one more defenseman. We add anything more than that and we have to make a trade or lose assets for nothing. As it is, we have the option of waiting for the right move.

#133 number9

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Posted 27 July 2012 - 06:01 PM

I have to believe that the problem is not Holland or that the Wings are not the premier place for free agents but, that the city of detroit and all of its' problems have made the top free agents head to other cities, that have more to offer.


Since when has any pro athlete lived in the Detroits ghettos?

#134 LeftWinger

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Posted 27 July 2012 - 06:22 PM

Who needs overpriced UFA's? In 3-4 years, Smith will be better than Suter and one of our young Euro's will be netting more goals than Parise/Semin or Doan... Let's get Abby signed, sort out the bottom 6 and bring on the season!

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#135 The Axe

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Posted 28 July 2012 - 03:30 PM

LW, love the optimism. I hope youre right. I really like Smith and Kindle, but i dont like Nyquist or Tatar at all. I hope Brunner shows up.

#136 Hey man nice shot!

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Posted 28 July 2012 - 08:33 PM

LW, love the optimism. I hope youre right. I really like Smith and Kindle, but i dont like Nyquist or Tatar at all. I hope Brunner shows up.

What your issue with Nyquist?

Edited by Hey man nice shot!, 28 July 2012 - 08:33 PM.


#137 Carman

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Posted 28 July 2012 - 08:34 PM

What your issue with Nyquist?


If I had to guess, it's because he is a Holland draft pick.

#138 The Axe

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Posted 28 July 2012 - 08:36 PM

No speed and no size. The kid has good hands and good vision. Im not saying he's worthless. I just dont think he has much of what the Wings are lacking right now besides youth.

#139 Hey man nice shot!

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Posted 28 July 2012 - 08:38 PM

No speed and no size. The kid has good hands and good vision. Im not saying he's worthless. I just dont think he has much of what the Wings are lacking right now besides youth.

gotcha

#140 Bring Back The Bruise Bros

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Posted 28 July 2012 - 08:39 PM

I have to believe that the problem is not Holland or that the Wings are not the premier place for free agents but, that the city of detroit and all of its' problems have made the top free agents head to other cities, that have more to offer.

Guys like Datsyuk, Zetterberg, and Cleary don't seem to mind the city of Detroit. They've been here for years. The city is rough, but its not like any players live on the outskirts of Detroit. The 'burbs are still nice. Personally, I'd focus more on the team than the city in which they're located.

Edited by Bring Back The Bruise Bros, 28 July 2012 - 08:40 PM.

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