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Holland losing his moxie? Is Detroit slipping as UFA destination?

ken holland

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#141 Xraymind7781

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Posted 29 July 2012 - 12:35 AM

holland had always been able to draw free agents because they knew they were going to be contending for the cup. that isnt the case anymore. we are entering a different era in redwings hockey. the future doesnt look so bright. hopefully something happens to change that. personally i don't have as much faith as some people here in our prospects.

#142 The Axe

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Posted 29 July 2012 - 12:22 PM

I agree with you. If prospects are really good, they develop in the NHL. Not Grand Rapids.

#143 number9

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Posted 29 July 2012 - 01:10 PM

I agree with you. If prospects are really good, they develop in the NHL. Not Grand Rapids.


hahahah says the guy who obviously knows nothing about our development system

Howard
Kronwall
Filppula
Hudler
Quincey
Helm
Abdelkader
Ericsson
all developed with the griffins....

the only way you go straight to the wings is if your name is Datsyuk or Zetterberg....we over-ripen the rest of em

Edited by number9, 29 July 2012 - 01:11 PM.


#144 The Axe

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Posted 29 July 2012 - 01:45 PM

Kronwall- 100 games. Filppula- 75 games. Helm- 125 games. And 5-10 years ago, our team was STACKED. Future Hall of Famers like were taking up roster spots. Not overpaid has-beens. Today, a prospect worth his salt should be able to bump out Bertuzzi, Holmstrom, Tootoo, Eaves, Samuelsson, & Abdelkader without much problem. Our forward prospects just arent that good, im afraid.

#145 number9

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Posted 29 July 2012 - 03:42 PM

Kronwall- 100 games. Filppula- 75 games. Helm- 125 games. And 5-10 years ago, our team was STACKED. Future Hall of Famers like were taking up roster spots. Not overpaid has-beens. Today, a prospect worth his salt should be able to bump out Bertuzzi, Holmstrom, Tootoo, Eaves, Samuelsson, & Abdelkader without much problem. Our forward prospects just arent that good, im afraid.


lmao nice redirection there.

This has nothing to do with hall of famers and not one of the players you listed is an overpaid has been anyway....with the exception of Samuelsson...and Homer won't be playing for us this season so yeah.

If you knew anything about the wings you'd know we are notorious for keeping our talent in the minors for long periods of time. Smith has been NHL ready for years and only now is getting his first shot at a full NHL season. Has nothing to do with the caliber of the prospect and everything to do with our development philosophy.

Yakupov would be starting the season in the minors on this team. Unless your the next Pavel Datsyuk that's the way things work.

#146 Shaman

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Posted 29 July 2012 - 03:51 PM

lmao nice redirection there.

This has nothing to do with hall of famers and not one of the players you listed is an overpaid has been anyway....with the exception of Samuelsson...and Homer won't be playing for us this season so yeah.

If you knew anything about the wings you'd know we are notorious for keeping our talent in the minors for long periods of time. Smith has been NHL ready for years and only now is getting his first shot at a full NHL season. Has nothing to do with the caliber of the prospect and everything to do with our development philosophy.

Yakupov would be starting the season in the minors on this team. Unless your the next Pavel Datsyuk that's the way things work.

Smith wasn't NHL ready until last season, he had maturity and dedication problems until his last year at Wisconsin, and that being the case he would need at least a year at the AHL to make sure those problems were in the past.
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#147 The Axe

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Posted 29 July 2012 - 03:54 PM

Stupidest thing Ive ever heard. Why would the Red Wings not play the best players? If Holland and Babcock are such great hockey minds, do you think they'd keep better players in the AHL/College? Give me a break. Smith and Brunner are gonna play because theyre good. Fact. Smith has played 63 AHL games. Yah, they have really been holding him back for years! Ha ha ha. You must not watch the development of these guys thru college, the ahl, and then their first few stints on the big squad.

#148 Red Crazy

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Posted 29 July 2012 - 04:09 PM

Stupidest thing Ive ever heard. Why would the Red Wings not play the best players? If Holland and Babcock are such great hockey minds, do you think they'd keep better players in the AHL/College? Give me a break. Smith and Brunner are gonna play because theyre good. Fact. Smith has played 63 AHL games. Yah, they have really been holding him back for years! Ha ha ha. You must not watch the development of these guys thru college, the ahl, and then their first few stints on the big squad.


I sure hope that these two live up to the expectations that we have for them. Smith for sure has to perform

#149 number9

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Posted 29 July 2012 - 04:13 PM

Stupidest thing Ive ever heard. Why would the Red Wings not play the best players? If Holland and Babcock are such great hockey minds, do you think they'd keep better players in the AHL/College? Give me a break. Smith and Brunner are gonna play because theyre good. Fact. Smith has played 63 AHL games. Yah, they have really been holding him back for years! Ha ha ha. You must not watch the development of these guys thru college, the ahl, and then their first few stints on the big squad.


uhhhhhh cause we overipen them.....I don't think your understanding...this is not MY philosophy or MY interpretation, It's the franchises and they openly operate this way. Almost every wings fan knows this....some how I'm not surprised you don't. You can disagree with it all you want but its not going to change things. The wings always choose mature veterans over 18 - 23 yr olds, plain and simple. Guys like Jurco wouldn't do a better job at guys like Abdelkaders role anyway...

Brunner is going to play because he's 26 and not a young gun lol though he may still end up doing some time in GR if he underachieves. And Smith is going to play because he's our best prospect, he was ready last season, we have a huge hole in our D and hes a D-man. Simple.

#150 The Axe

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Posted 29 July 2012 - 05:07 PM

So we just "over-ripen" players for the hell of it. Even if they could help us win more games now because they're better than current players. We just wont let em play. Nope.

Youve been listening to the Wings announcers too long. The Wings farm system is full of mediocre talent that is not making an impact on the big club, and that "over-ripening" b.s. is just a way to put lipstick on the pig.

#151 Xraymind7781

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Posted 29 July 2012 - 05:14 PM

lmao nice redirection there.

This has nothing to do with hall of famers and not one of the players you listed is an overpaid has been anyway....with the exception of Samuelsson...and Homer won't be playing for us this season so yeah.

If you knew anything about the wings you'd know we are notorious for keeping our talent in the minors for long periods of time. Smith has been NHL ready for years and only now is getting his first shot at a full NHL season. Has nothing to do with the caliber of the prospect and everything to do with our development philosophy.

Yakupov would be starting the season in the minors on this team. Unless your the next Pavel Datsyuk that's the way things work.


I argue that if you knew anything about the wings, you now know that for years and years holding back talent in the minors was a luxury for this club. One that they are no longer able to afford i'm affriad. Whith so many oppertunities now available for these younger players, I feel that it will only thin our prospects pool even further.

#152 number9

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Posted 29 July 2012 - 05:28 PM

So we just "over-ripen" players for the hell of it. Even if they could help us win more games now because they're better than current players. We just wont let em play. Nope.

Youve been listening to the Wings announcers too long. The Wings farm system is full of mediocre talent that is not making an impact on the big club, and that "over-ripening" b.s. is just a way to put lipstick on the pig.


Really? cause pretty much every credible source on farm system talent would disagree with you. Our prospect pool is one of the highest ranked in the league. But lemme guess... you some how know better than they do right?

To the rest of your post I'll say it again.....

uhhhhhh cause we overipen them.....I don't think your understanding...this is not MY philosophy or MY interpretation, It's the franchises and they openly operate this way. Almost every wings fan knows this....some how I'm not surprised you don't. You can disagree with it all you want but its not going to change things. The wings always choose mature veterans over 18 - 23 yr olds, plain and simple. Guys like Jurco wouldn't do a better job at guys like Abdelkaders role anyway...


I argue that if you knew anything about the wings, you now know that for years and years holding back talent in the minors was a luxury for this club. One that they are no longer able to afford i'm affriad. Whith so many oppertunities now available for these younger players, I feel that it will only thin our prospects pool even further.


Not sure what your trying to argue here.....?

#153 beachwing

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Posted 29 July 2012 - 06:27 PM

agreed, Tough for lot of folks to grasp but Detroit has some of the nicest burbs in the country.

#154 pondrocket

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Posted 29 July 2012 - 09:00 PM

I have to believe that the problem is not Holland or that the Wings are not the premier place for free agents but, that the city of detroit and all of its' problems have made the top free agents head to other cities, that have more to offer.


Completely disagree! While Detroit is a tragic mess the rest of the region has some realy nice cities and a collection of great places to live as a single person or raise a family.

The problem is that we don't have a collection of tallent that other players really want to play with. Kronner, Pav & Hsnk are not enough.

#155 number9

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Posted 29 July 2012 - 09:16 PM

In the players poll this past season Detroit was voted as the team players would most want to play for, and It's widely believed we were Suters #2 choice.....don't understand how that means were not a top UFA destination still

#156 Xraymind7781

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Posted 29 July 2012 - 11:34 PM

Not sure what your trying to argue here.....?


Not arguing anything here. Just bringing light to the fact that what you know of the redwings and how they conducted buisness in the past is history. This "developmental philosophy" that you speak of is about to morph drastically too. This is the begining of life after Nick and Stevie. Those two guys were the reasons why we could draw free agents here. It had nothing to do with the suburbs or our claim to be "hockeytown". Those two were winners. Anybody would have followed them. Sad truth is, this team just isnt as attractive without them. In my opinion that changes EVERYTHING. I'm not saying it's going to be tough from here on out but i am saying, things are going to be allot different now.

#157 The Axe

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Posted 29 July 2012 - 11:38 PM

If our talent pool is so good, why resign Bertuzzi, sign Brunner, sign Samuelson, sign Tootoo, etc etc etc. I think Emmerton is the only guy we have that is a legit NHLer because of his spped. Hopefully, Brunner's speed will be as advertised as well. We need it. Holland not getting anybody this off-season has put us in sink or swim mode, which is probably going to be hard to stomach but is probably not a bad thing long term. At least we will know what these young guys can do instead of arguing about it!!!

#158 number9

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Posted 29 July 2012 - 11:52 PM

Not arguing anything here. Just bringing light to the fact that what you know of the redwings and how they conducted buisness in the past is history. This "developmental philosophy" that you speak of is about to morph drastically too. This is the begining of life after Nick and Stevie. Those two guys were the reasons why we could draw free agents here. It had nothing to do with the suburbs or our claim to be "hockeytown". Those two were winners. Anybody would have followed them. Sad truth is, this team just isnt as attractive without them. In my opinion that changes EVERYTHING. I'm not saying it's going to be tough from here on out but i am saying, things are going to be allot different now.


I see where your coming from but I completely disagree. Players come here to win....not to play with one man....Nick is gone yes but this is not a gutter team, we still have a very competitive roster and I'm willing to bet there will be more additions before February is over.

Also Hollands philosophy does not revolve around the comings and goings of Nick Lidstrom....If everything is "different now" then why did we sign Samuelsson? It's cause none of our prospects are ready in Hollands eyes yet so he signed a band-aid player.....We only have 1 prospect guaranteed to be trickling in and thats Smith....There are no holes our prospects MUST fill...they will continue to over-ripen as they've always done.

Edited by number9, 29 July 2012 - 11:54 PM.


#159 The Axe

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Posted 30 July 2012 - 12:04 AM

i'd buy the band aid argument if it was a one year deal. But its 3 years. So i think holland is losing.

#160 centcougar07

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Posted 30 July 2012 - 01:03 AM

hahahah says the guy who obviously knows nothing about our development system

Howard
Kronwall
Filppula
Hudler
Quincey
Helm
Abdelkader
Ericsson
all developed with the griffins....

the only way you go straight to the wings is if your name is Datsyuk or Zetterberg....we over-ripen the rest of em


Based on that list, you'll have a lot of overrated, average and bottom six NHL'ers in a few years! I'm not sure that's the plan you wanna have.





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