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Logo Hunter vs. Missing the Net - Fight!


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#21 Crymson

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Posted 24 July 2012 - 10:42 PM

Players on other teams never miss the net. Only Red Wings miss the net.

#22 GoWings1905

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Posted 24 July 2012 - 10:57 PM

I think it's just a reflection overall of the players currently on the roster and some of the offensive strategies often used. There are some more common culprits mentioned already (Sammy and Franzen come to mind most for me too), but even players like Filppula and Helm blow a lot of quality scoring chances with their inability to finish.

Adding to that, I also believe that a perimeter-oriented team is going to hit a lot of goaltender logos and defenders shin guards because of the area where a good chunk of shots are coming from. Everyone on the Red Wings was drilling Rinne in the chest because everything was directed on net from the perimeter.

Lack of pure goal-scorers. Been a problem since Hossa left and still is to this day.

Edited by GoWings1905, 24 July 2012 - 10:57 PM.

 
 
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#23 jollymania

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Posted 24 July 2012 - 11:08 PM

sameulsson just aims for the net, mule aims for the corners and is off a lot.
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#24 LeftWinger

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Posted 24 July 2012 - 11:15 PM

HERETIC!!!

My main concern with Franzen is not necessarily his choice of shots/intended targets. It's more a threefold case of his work ethic (or lack thereof), his hesitance to use his size when working for the puck, and his incredible streakiness. Even giving him the benefit of the doubt on the work ethic and reluctance to use his size, those are still things that are perceived problems of his. And we all know that in most instances, perception is reality.

That said, Franzen has shown the ability to be an absolute lights-out force on the ice (The Colorado series in '08 is a testament to that). If only he could show a little consistency...

And I think Sammy will essentially help balance out the loss of Hudler. Sammy will probably be better on the point on the PP than Rex was, but has more questions regarding injuries.


Wait, Hudler leaving is a loss?

I think it's just a reflection overall of the players currently on the roster and some of the offensive strategies often used. There are some more common culprits mentioned already (Sammy and Franzen come to mind most for me too), but even players like Filppula and Helm blow a lot of quality scoring chances with their inability to finish.

Adding to that, I also believe that a perimeter-oriented team is going to hit a lot of goaltender logos and defenders shin guards because of the area where a good chunk of shots are coming from. Everyone on the Red Wings was drilling Rinne in the chest because everything was directed on net from the perimeter.

Lack of pure goal-scorers. Been a problem since Hossa left and still is to this day.


but...but...but...we have playoff Franzine...

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#25 Valas19

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Posted 25 July 2012 - 08:56 AM

Helm is king of getting no shot on goal despite having a break-away.
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#26 Drake_Marcus

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Posted 25 July 2012 - 09:34 AM

Logo Hunter and Shinguard Assassin might be Sammy's best nicknames, but he and Franzen could both be called High-and-Wide. Sammy is just as bad as Franzen when it comes to missing the net. If I see much more coasting from Franzen this season (a given), then he is no longer Mule, he is Rosebud.


This is more a symptom of the type of game they play. Both guys are volume shooters and with that comes a lot of redirected and deflected shots that go high and wide (and yeah, hilarious misses too)

I see missed shots as being similar to strikes... sometimes it's because you whiffed but other times you were just on the wrong side of the foul pole.
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#27 Sprsquirt7

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Posted 25 July 2012 - 09:54 AM

I think people are way to critical on missing the net here. When you are playing the game at full speed you have very limited time to "setup" the shot and hit a spot. You see people in the all star game, directly in the slot trying to hit 4 targets substantial in size and you have them miss quite a few. This is done with no pressure from defenseman, no reading of the goalies position to beat him, etc. To reasonably expect someone in a game to hit the net/spot most of the time is ludicrous.

Another aspect that is typically ignored, more for franzen than sammy, is that in todays hockey in order to beat the goalie on a clean shot (no deflections or rebounds) it has to be nearly a perfectly placed shot. You miss by 6 inches and its hitting the goalie (obscene sizes of pads make it hard). So if theoretically you need to shoot almost perfectly to beat the goalie, you attempt to hit that perfect spot each time and unfortunately all the perfect spots are right against the post. So if you miss by 3 inches you miss the net. Obviously you want your players to hit the net more often but i'll take attempts at perfect shots that have a chance of going in vs the "on net" shot that is caught, swallowed up. Shooting for rebounds is a skill, and a totally different shot and style of play than what they play.

#28 RedWingsDad

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Posted 25 July 2012 - 10:37 AM

Shooting for rebounds is a skill, and a totally different shot and style of play than what they play.


Shooting for rebounds necessitates 'getting to the dirty areas', and we have taken a couple of steps back in that area the last couple years due to our team generally getting softer. It's not a good thing.
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#29 rrasco

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Posted 25 July 2012 - 10:50 AM

Good point. I seem to remember Ericcson missing the net on a slap shot from the right point that swung around the boards and led to a fast break goal for the Penguins in the 2009 finals. Someone feel free to fact check me on that.


Or Jason Williams in game 3 of the 2010 playoffs against SJ that lead to that back-breaking goal that put the final nail in the season.

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#30 turbowhistle86

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Posted 25 July 2012 - 10:57 AM

Players on other teams never miss the net. Only Red Wings miss the net.


hmmm.......


Edited by turbowhistle86, 25 July 2012 - 10:58 AM.


#31 Nev

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Posted 25 July 2012 - 11:43 AM

Of course we should remember that they only shoot so much since Babcock tells them to shoot so much. The ever-brutally-honest Sammy admitted last time around he was told "shoot the puck more or you don't play"
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#32 StormJH1

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Posted 25 July 2012 - 12:06 PM

Wow, 31 posts in on this (excellent) topic, and not a single message of the real "Shinguard Assassin", Ian White?

Seriously, that guy is the worst at getting shots through to the net, and it's emblematic of a larger problem with the Red Wings' style and the "new NHL", which is only going to get worse now that #5 is gone. Everybody kind of assumed that White was going to be this "poor man's Rafalski", but while they are both RH defenseman who like to shoot low, there are all sorts of elements to not getting a shot blocked, including where you take the shots from and the timing of when you let them go. I hear low slapshots from the point referred to as "deflectable", but they're usually blocked or deflected by the defense, and that's the problem.

If you watched film even of the Wings' first modern Cup run in '96/'97, the league as a whole blocks a TON more shots now. Strader/Daniels/Redmond used to talk about about specific guys who "specialized" in shot blocking (Ramsey and Beregevin). To make a comment like that now would be absurd - EVERYBODY blocks shots because they're about as well protected below the face as the goalies were in the 70's.

I think that while the first "goaltending revolution" really kicked in after 92/93 season (permanent switch from standup to butterfly), we've seen the overall quality of goaltending across the 30 teams really go up post-lockout. This is despite the fact that there have been technology changes (composite sticks) and rule changes that should specifically improve offense.

To answer the question of the thread, getting shots on net is generally better because it increases the chance of human error (or a freak deflection). But that isn't true if you're someone like White or Sammy whose shot isn't good enough to score from more than 20 feet away with any regularity. In that case, you might as well set up a play, or do the Lidstrom/JLA boards thing where you miss on purpose to get the puck through and hope it ricochets into the slot somehow.

Of course we should remember that they only shoot so much since Babcock tells them to shoot so much. The ever-brutally-honest Sammy admitted last time around he was told "shoot the puck more or you don't play"

Interesting. I'm a big Babcock fan, so I don't want to rip him for telling guys something as simple as "shoot the puck!". But for all the talk about the Wings being a "puck possession" team, that would be reversal of the Russian Five era, where the puck was cycled and held almost to frustration. If it's Lidstrom or Shea Weber back there, heck, fire away. But if it's White, Ericsson, or any other defender that isn't really comfortable back there, you're kind of blowing your offensive wad by setting up a hole play just to create a low-percentage shot from the guy furthest away - which usually ends the attack either with a turnover or a frozen puck.

#33 Rivalred

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Posted 25 July 2012 - 12:12 PM

Wings have a tendency on the PP to look for that perfect pass or shot which eats up a lot of time. If the Wings did shoot more and it wasn't blocked, scoring chances would increase dramatically.

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#34 kook_10

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Posted 26 July 2012 - 08:29 AM

It is not only that a player shoots wide or gets blocked, it is how they do it. Shooting from the wing or wide point and missing shortside is really what causes the quick transition the other way. So is faking a shot from the point then hitting the forward's shinguards. Missing from the slot is just a lost opportunity without creating one for the opposition. That is why IMO bad decisions from Sammy or Ian White are that much worse.

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#35 Wing Across The Pond

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Posted 26 July 2012 - 01:41 PM

Interesting. I'm a big Babcock fan, so I don't want to rip him for telling guys something as simple as "shoot the puck!". But for all the talk about the Wings being a "puck possession" team, that would be reversal of the Russian Five era, where the puck was cycled and held almost to frustration. If it's Lidstrom or Shea Weber back there, heck, fire away. But if it's White, Ericsson, or any other defender that isn't really comfortable back there, you're kind of blowing your offensive wad by setting up a hole play just to create a low-percentage shot from the guy furthest away - which usually ends the attack either with a turnover or a frozen puck.


Man I want Ericsson to shoot more. Guy has a bomb but never uses it. I see him like Fulton Reed from the Mighty Ducks... huge shot... 1 out of 5 :P

Was also waiting for someone to put up a vid of Craig Smith so thank you turbowhistle86 :D

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#36 Lifelong Wings Fan

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Posted 26 July 2012 - 01:56 PM

Good point. I seem to remember Ericcson missing the net on a slap shot from the right point that swung around the boards and led to a fast break goal for the Penguins in the 2009 finals. Someone feel free to fact check me on that.


Sounds familiar. How about this one; I was at the game. 2010 Playoffs. Game 3 against San Jose, trailing 2-0 in the series. Game goes into overtime. Jason Williams, who didn't see a second of ice time in the 3rd period finds himself on a 2-on-1 with Dan Cleary, if I'm not mistaken. In true Jason Williams fashion, he tees up his last slapshot as a Red Wing. It was approximately 3' high and 8' wide of the net. It wrapped around the glass right to Joe Thornton who sent Patrick Marleau in all alone to score the game winning goal.

#37 RedWingsDad

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Posted 26 July 2012 - 02:14 PM

Sounds familiar. How about this one; I was at the game. 2010 Playoffs. Game 3 against San Jose, trailing 2-0 in the series. Game goes into overtime. Jason Williams, who didn't see a second of ice time in the 3rd period finds himself on a 2-on-1 with Dan Cleary, if I'm not mistaken. In true Jason Williams fashion, he tees up his last slapshot as a Red Wing. It was approximately 3' high and 8' wide of the net. It wrapped around the glass right to Joe Thornton who sent Patrick Marleau in all alone to score the game winning goal.


Sigh, I remember watching that on T.V. It was like receiving an emotional drop kick - one second we have this great opportunity, the next it's in the back of our own net.

Edited by RedWingsDad, 26 July 2012 - 02:15 PM.

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